In a “surprising” turn of events, Calvary International Ministries, the personal ministry of Pastor Prince Guneratnam, announced last Saturday that it is returning all the balance money in its bank account amounting to RM1.05 million back to the Missions Dept of Calvary Church. The amount was the balance remaining from the RM1.3 million that was transferred from the Missions Dept to CIM between 2002 and 2007 without the knowledge or approval of the church members. This “change of heart” is a complete turnaround of the adamant attitude that we saw in Pastor Prince during the recent EGM.
The members were informed for the first time during the recent EGM in August 2008 that the Board of Deacons had previously ratified and endorsed the monetary gift to CIM. Members were riled by the total lack of transparency and proper governance in the whole saga which had led to a split in the church. Our God is a faithful God and once again, He has answered our prayers. He has heard the cries of all those who have stood up for truth and transparency.
The deacons have also at last Saturday’s closed door meetings for church leaders, announced the following:-
1. CARED, which is a subsidiary of CIM has been transferred to our Church as an extended ministry. All the balance money in CARED’s bank account amounting to about RM400,000 has been transferred to a new CARED bank account under the Church. This money is the balance remaining from the RM576,961 that was transferred from the Missions Dept to CIM/CARED without members’ approval or knowledge in 2006 and 2007.
2. A Constitutional Review committee comprising of Bro Philip Tan, Sis Bernadette, Sis Helen Gan, Bro Dennis Xavier, and Bro Ong Keng Hock has been formed to undertake the review of the sections of our Church Constitution relating to financial provisions and nomination process for nomination committee, deacons and auditors. This committee does not have any representation from the TTG Group. The limited scope of the review has conveniently left out the main concern of all the Church members which relates to the office and authority of the Senior Pastor. This exclusion of one of the real issues confronting the church has already gotten a stamp of failure on the whole exercise from the start. It is certainly not what the members want.
3. The formation of the Financial Governance Committee is also another joke. The committee comprises Deacon Edward Rajasingam, Deacon Han, Bro Lee Tuck Heng (ex-church auditor), Bro Tam Kok Meng (present church auditor), Bro Au Weng Sang and Bro Ding Lai Hong. With the inclusion of 2 deacons and the previous church auditor, all of whom had been ignorant or overlooked the many accounting issues as well as the unauthorized transfer of funds from missions Dept to CIM, we wonder how effective this committee can be?
Both Senior Pastor and Sis Petrina shared at Saturday’s meeting. Here are some NOTE WORTHY STATEMENTS made by them during the meeting.
He said:
#1.… the church celebrated my 30 years celebration and in that celebration, we launched CIM and that is how CIM came to be … The church gave a gift of RM30,000-00 and everybody was glad and happy. …
#2.…Before that was known as Sr Pastor’s Overseas Travel and 30 years in celebration then gave it a name called CIM – it was a personal ministry. Personal in a sense it wasn’t Pas. Steven doing it, it wasn’t Pas. Peter doing it. It was me that was doing it so that’s where it was said that it was to be a personal ministry of Pas. Prince Guneratnam.
#3.…And also when it (CIM) was formed, it was also expressed that it will come a time…when the church gets big enough, …The Lord wants to move me into full-time to evangelistic … Then I will move into evangelistic … I will be changing my job, changing my role, changing my position, no more pastoring, now as an evangelist. You don’t call that retirement. You don’t retire. Just change of job. It’s changing your responsibility so CIM gave my overseas missionary ministry a structure, a structure to what I was doing.
#4.… CIM will release to Calvary Church all existing funds in CIM books, at this stage, a total sum of RM1,055,550-68, which means CIM now has a zero balance. So we’re going to return all that sum of money.
#5.… Money has never been our issue.
She said:
#6.… As Sr Pastor has said, “to give structure to a ministry that has been well accepted internationally and after 30 years. …. giving it a structure will help in the funding from people like Dr Cho and Pastors and many friends, from Japan …and people gave at the launch. This was in September 2002.
#7.… In 2003, we bought land for the CCC, … CCC then became our top priority. We must put CIM aside and not talk about CIM and people supporting this ministry, because we want everyone, including our friends, our contacts, to support CCC and we want to raise funds for CIM will be after CCC has been built…our desire was to channel all funds for CCC… and as some of you know, our good friend Dr. Cho gave two million and it could come to CIM…Pas. Robert and church also gave two million and some others…
#8.…So you say, “How did Missions get involved in giving to the seed fund?” Missions has always supported SP overseas ministry and God in the meantime, blessed our Missions and Faith Promise abundantly and since the Church has EXCESS fund, more money. After meeting all the commitment, there was still MORE money left from (for?) missions and since CIM is a missionary endeavor to missionary in nature, evangelistic crusade, a certain amount was appointed to CIM seed fund. Missions money can only be used for Missions.
#9.… Missions money has never been brought back to the church to be said whether it can be appointed or not. …So certain amount of money was given to CIM approved by the Missions Board as well as the Deacons. It was not something that we transfer. It was never like this. So that’s why Sr Pastor and I were very comfortable to receive this amount of money given to CIM because it was for ministry. …It was for crusades and fall in line with the criteria of money given to missions. ... And since we give hundreds to thousands….you heard, four million and we don’t come back to church for approval to give money for …Dr. Guynes ministry or for Peter Wagner who built the Prayer Tower….the Indian Pastor, David Mohan….
#10.… it never dawn on us and at the same time, you must know, Sr Pastor and I, all we know is ministry. We have not come from the secular world. I know nothing about CBT and I know nothing about this transfer of funds. Our thinking has always been spiritual. … so we accept it very gratefully and happily, as we put CCC first and not put the ministry that was personal, …and God in turn gave back to CIM …
#11.… When this perception was created, this misinterpretation, we immediately thought of giving back the money.
#12.... the Board Of Deacons never thought about having to come back to the church for approval, whether the amount can be given to the SP’s ministry/CIM. Maybe we took for granted that everybody would be so happy that we can support the SP’s ministry so and since we never have to come back to the church at large to say whether this money can be given or not. It was already designated for missions, so you know, that was it.
#13.…First of all, we needed to clear the allegations that it was CBT and pastor has said how the Board was brought in and it, that has been cleared. Now after the EGM, now we will return the money and it has been given back … because of certain allegations, it has become ugly and since God is always our source and if it will bring about peace and settlement, we are very happy.
#14.…Why call it Calvary International Ministry and since this is a personal ministry, why don’t call it Prince Guneratnam Ministry?... For all of you who know pastor, even a little, you know that Sr Pastor is a very reserved, shy person. He doesn’t talk about himself, neither does he talk about our family…. By nature he is always reserve…and so giving it Prince Guneratnam Ministry will bring a lot of attention to himself and he doesn’t want that. So that is the reason.
#15… Another reason why we call it Calvary International Ministry - our love and our recognition of Calvary Church. We are so much a part of Calvary Church. We have given the best of our years…35 years…Calvary Church will always be apart of us even when we go to heaven, I believe, when we die lah ah and we will, I hope, be apart of some of you. It was recognition affection that we call it Calvary International Ministry.
#16.… It was never meant to deceive people to give money to us using Calvary’s name. By the way, people give money to individuals they can trust. They don’t give to church name and say ……
#17.… Every sen has been accounted for by the Certified independent audit, accountant. All money has been returned. There is zero balance. The matter is considered closed, I hope.
Well, now that all the balance money in CIM has been transferred back to the Church Missions Dept (whether voluntarily or involuntarily, we leave it to you to decide), we sincerely hope that Pastor Prince and his dear wife will do the next right thing and that is, accept full responsibility for the crisis that the church is in and change job to do what has been in their hearts all these years and become evangelists.
God Bless.
422 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 401 – 422 of 422 Newer› Newest»To Prince Gunaratnam,
In case you are not aware, you may have done great & wonderful works for CC & for God but you have now passed your "use before" date or in Malay "Guna Sebelum".
Move on & make way on your own accord or else God may move you on ......
Why those annoying anonymous-es always try to point out scriptures to us but dare not point out these same scriptures to PG, PG2, BOD & APs?
You hypocrites are practising double standards, exactly like your idols, PG & PG2!
Reminds me of the message by Rev. Isaac Chan at the BCM Graduation... he said something like this, "Certain pastors who have become 'big' & important feel that 'the rules' do not apply to them...the rules only apply to those small-time, ordinary pastors."
Stop preaching to us, & try preaching to these 'big & important' PG & PG2 of Calvary Church who obviously do not apply Christian rules & principles for themselves & their family.
Sigh ... you can't even agree with your own scriptures ...
PG,
Gunasebelum is right, don't even ponder anymore just move on.
Even champions in the sports world would choose to retire as the undefeated champion rather than to be remembered as the defeated champion.
PG, as a champion of God, I would STRONGLY recommend that you step aside (by going into evangelism as what you said was your new calling some 6 years ago - better late than never) & let CC have a new SP to take it to the next level as God intended.
Remember how God did not allow David to build His Temple (due to David's sins), instead the Temple was built by Solomon. Likewise, God may not want you (PG) to build His CCC as you have tainted hands, let the new SP build it.
Step aside PG (ex-champion of God); let us in CC have a new SP.
To Non-Christian at 10.40am,
They say that "you can fool SOME of the people SOME of the time BUT you can't fool ALL the people ALL the time".
I don't think any right-minded Christian would want to make himself a nuisance on some other religious (or agnostic's) blogs. Thus, it appears that either you are an agnostic (as held by yourself) who is not right-minded or, more likely, you are a pro-PG supporter who is trying to cause confusion in this blog.
If you are the latter, sorry lah, your sin has been uncovered, do turn to God in repentance & may He have mercy on you.
If you are the former who is not so righ-minded, please do not make a nuisance of yourself here. Do see a pyschiatrist as I am afraid that all the reading of the various religious books (as held by you previously on this blog) has created the confusion in your mind so DO NOT bring your problem & confusion to us.
I call on the CT adminstrator to delete all of Non-Christian's comments both past & future as we have enough confusion within CC (with such low moral leaders like PG, BOD & APs who doesn't stand up for God) so we don't need anymore confusion here.
Dear Calvary Today,
Just a suggestion about the Constitution, if I may.
At the EGM, as I have blogged, there was mention that our Church Constitution will be brought more in line with the AG Churches Constitution.
Perhaps, it would be helpful if you could do a table comparing the AG Churches Constitution vs CC's Constitution - highlighting the clauses that should be considered for change or need to be added on, so that it brings a sense of balance for CC, pastors and members and a positive impact on truth, transparency and accountability in church matters?
I believe that such education and knowledge will be helpful to CC members, old and new. The knowledge will help them make informed decisions, what with the AGM coming up in the next few months.
My thoughts only - but such an article will make this blog more relevant to the issues that we are seeking to see come to past at CC.
While I can feel the frustrations and pain of many who blog here, I am sorry (no offence to anyone)but honestly (my opinion only), the comments won't move things along in the right direction and can't constructively tackle the issues that we are all so passionate about.
The blog then becomes just a "sounding board" to vent our frustrations and pain. I believe that we want to see more action from the BOD and PG, every member needs to be well informed - please remember to keep it simple both in language, content and form.
Just a suggestion, mind you, just a suggestion.
God bless
Diana
Hey, did you guys/gals notice on the Live Trafiic Map that someone in Geneva, Switzerland has been reading our CT blog?
Could it be PG's Swiss bankers? If so, could it be that they are wondering whether they ought to close the CIM bank account(s) now that CIM has been deregistered by NECF?
Hey PG, looks like you better catch the next flight out to Geneva to take out your funds (from foreign churches' love offering which you have not been declaring to CC over the years) before they freeze your CIM bank account(s).
Don't know where to put those "tainted" funds, PG? "Release" it back to CC lor; after all it should have been CC's in the first place. Looks like PG, you can't "cheat" God lah, He is Omniscient & He is Omnipotent.
Ha ! Ha ! Ha !
Sorry lah PG, it was a good try to enrich yourself but "que sera sera". God does not want to bless you that way, so just obey Him lor - OK? Be a good boy lor, PG. Don't worry, God will reward you in His time.
Oh, by the way PG, someone once said that "a minute in God's time could be a year in ours" so happy waiting. Ha ! Ha ! Ha !
Dear Right-Minded,
"I don't think any right-minded Christian would want to make himself a nuisance on some other religious (or agnostic's) blogs"
Your premise is in error. If you want I can show you hundreds of posts in blogs from seemingly 'right-minded' Christians who write in other religious or non-religious blogs. You Christians especially are very insecure.
And why do you keep assuming that I am someone in disguise? I found an interesting blog. I commented and got replies and have continued on. I'll add 'paranoia' to my list of Christian traits.
Don't get annoyed with me:
1. Your own bloggers (i.e. 'Interested') have engaged me for my opinions. Thus from writing merely one rant I have continued to follow this blog.
2. If you really don't like that I post here then you should not have this as a public blog. I found this through Blogspot.com.
3. Your real frustration is with your other Christians. Your pastor is one. Then you are upset that people keep quoting scriptures that you don't like in here.
4. You hate your own holy book. Thats why you pick and choose when convenient. If it had been some sort of scripture about honesty or something like that you would have been openly supporting that Anonymous blogger.
5. And for the last time (since you don't seem to be able to understand what I said earlier) I am not only singling out those of you who are here to whine about how unfair your church is to you. I also said some things about your pastor. And all that only serves to prove my point that religion is ugliest mark on the history of the human race.
6. Deleting my comments will not be the solution. It is only proof of how weak your beliefs are.
Proverbs 30:5-6 (KJV):
5 Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.
6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.
Proverbs 30:5-6 (AMP):
5 Every word of God is tried and purified; He is a shield to those who trust and take refuge in Him.
6 Add not to His words, lest He reprove you, and you be found a liar.
These verses from Proverbs tell us that the Word of God is pure and we can confidently put our trust in His Word, and also warns men not to tamper with the Bible.
All true Christians are in agreement that our standard is the Word of God, the Bible.
God left us this Book as a reference, standard, or gauge, so we could know whether something is good or evil, truth or error, right or wrong.
We are told in the Bible that all scripture came by the inspiration of God and it is the guide by which we are to live.
To Non-Christian at 11.30am,
You said "I found this through Blogspot.com", do enlighten us how you did so as I had just tried to do it & failed.
So I am just wondering whether you are telling the truth or did you get the CT address from someone?
Just Wondering.
2 Timothy 3:16-17:
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
Revelation 22:18-19:
18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
Dear all,
Please don't engage "Non-Christian" as the more we engage him/her the more he/she wants to blog here. He/She is merely seeking attention and cheap publicity. Please leave him/her alone. Let God deal with him/her.
Noticed that everytime some (note that I said some) bloggers find someone too "difficult to handle" vis-a-vis engaging in issues raised the call is to "not to bother with the person/don't engage, reply/leave him or her alone". Shows the level of/the ability of these bloggers perhaps?
Anyway, dear Non-Christian - if you really want to know about Christianity, I suggest you pick up the Bible, the Word of God and take a look at Jesus' life and words instead of looking at Christians per se. If you do this, I am sure you will find Jesus to be really attractive to follow ... to know Jesus is to know Christianity. Warm Regards.
To those quoting bible verses to prove the authority of the bible ...
Sigh ... Its a contradiction in terms. You can't do that and base your arguments on that. Its the same as a murder suspect saying before a judge that he is innocent. You can only base the validity of a claim through external fact.
And to Just Wondering ... It appeared up in search I was doing on Google/Blogs. As I have visited Calvary Church before, I found it interesting enough to click on.
Ah Lian must not like me very much.
Check this out!
Its nice to see that our counseling center is recognized by the psychology community. Pam is the most qualified of the Guneratnams. So even after the change of leadership we can all rest easy that she will be fine.
http://counselingpsychologyinmalaysia.wordpress.com/2008/10/22/im-contemplating-marriage-but-dont-want-another-divorce/
Dear Trampled Rose & those who loved Joyce Ng
I understand the difficulty you and others who loved Joyce are going through.....especially the pain.
Allow me to explain as gently as possible. In Medical Science an accurate and precise diagnosis is critical in order to provide effective treatment.
First consider why are you in pain? Where is Joyce? Is she not in the bossum of Jesus, the great Shepherd, in heaven? Can you remember that relevant verse in Revelation? For your sake I will give you the whole verse in its entirety.
Rev 21:4 He will wipe away all tears from their eyes. There will be no more death, no more grief or crying or pain. The old things have disappeared."
I tell you the truthful truth (if there is such a thing). Joyce is in a much better place than we all are!
Now tell me why, after a number of years, are you still in pain with regards to Joyce? I’ll give you three suggestions.
1. You loved Joyce, you were her bossum friend and you miss her very much.
2. You did not have the opportunity to experience a complete grieve process. This could be due to two things:
a. The death of Joyce happened too abruptly, and you were totally unprepared to accept it emotionally.
b. Your grieve process was abruptly interrupted by the unpleasant events regarding CC and the relevant leaders.
c.
Trampled Rose, your pain was never adequately dealt with. In effect, you just buried it in your heart. Here again, Medical Science will tell you that this is like having a festering abcess. You may try to cover the abscess with layers and layers of bandages but the abscess will never go away and so the pain will also not go away......EVER! You will have to be brave, remove the plaster, open old wounds so to speak, incise the wound (which will cause further pain) and press the abcess (which again will cause further pain) and drain out ALL the pus. Then after a short period of time the wound will completely heal.....although there may still persist a barely inconspicuous scar, just to remind you that you once nurtured a festering abscess.
It is the same with your pain for your Joyce. You may need to take leave for a few days. Go to some place quiet. First spend sometime praying and singing choruses to the Lord especially choruses dealing with pain, sadness,suffering and hurt. Go through all the photos of times you shared together with Joyce. Allow yourself to cry freely if and whenever you are moved to do so. After all, it is just between you, God and Joyce. Sort out you grief. Take all the time you want. Sort out your pain. And once you feel you are ready, leave the room........into a newness of life with Jesus Christ.
You may want to hold a very simple memorial service for Joyce with all the friends who loved her.
Joyce was sweet. She had a sweet smile. But even more she had a heart that was bigger than life itself. In her life or even in her death, I believe that if she could have done something to make life a little better for each of her friends she would’ve done it. I am reminded of how she was so much like her own beloved Jesus, the Rose, trampled on the ground, who thought of me (you) above all!
I did not bring up the issue of Joyce to cause any grief. I brought it up to honour her. I brought it up the issue surrounding Joyce and CC so that it will never again ......to cause so much grief to so many!
To CLM's Not bad, sorry but I cannot agree with you at all on this. Pam is into New Age Christian pyschology which is actually contradictory to what the Bible says. She DOES NOT have any theological background, she DOES NOT know how to preach and she DOES NOT have a shepherd's heart. If you guys forgot, there was this case which appeared in the newspaper headlines whereby this guy who is an ex-CLM counsellee actually committed suicide and killed his 2 children along with him. He is a product of CLM's counsellings, headed by PAM GUNERATNAM
Have you all so quickly forgotten that CLM,as an Extended Ministry, is run as part of the Guneratnam Business Empire, with its financial accounts not released to the church's members' scrutiny?
to 'Non-Christian',
sorry for the long absence. been away :) anyway, thanks for replying and also reading this blog and sharing your views.
for me personally, i love God, and i love people. and to me, the church means people too. And that's why i do what i do :) cheerio!
anyway, in translation of Pastor Philip Mok's message (apologies if my translation aint that up to standard):
To my honoured friends and shepherds/pastors:
Peace.
The social work in the House of Victory is currently affected by the current economy situation.
Currently we have:
26 people in the old folks' home;
27 children in the orphanage;
扶老青少年13位 (not entirely sure what this means. will get back to u once i find out)
52 in the drug rehab.
We are in need of food: rice, oil, sugar, mee, mihun, soya sos, garlic, red and brown onions, daily food products, washing powder etc.
if you feel called and hope to contribute before christmas or the new year, please contact at:
0162224110或0123888419
Philip Mok (莫绍南致敬)
I am so ashamed of all this. What a whole lot of liars and cheats. Is anyone tipping off the income tax or ACA? Or should we just let God deal with them?
New comments are not allowed.