26th Aug 2008
To the Board of Deacons of Calvary Church,
My name is __________ and I have been attending Calvary Church for the past 28 years, ever since I was born. Some of you may know me, some of you may not. I have grown up in this church and in so many ways, Calvary Church has been a big part of my growing up life. From attending nursery as an infant to attending CW and the youth ministry as well as the lifegroup and being involved in our church presentations and ministries, I have grown to love this church and its people. I have also been serving in the Music Ministry for the past 10 years and enjoy serving the Lord through music.
The reason I am writing this letter is to express my discouragement and sadness in many of the decisions made by the Board of Deacons. The issues raised by the Teh Tarik crew are indeed valid and are the truth, and I am pretty sure deep in your hearts and spirits, some of you do realize that these are not just ‘malicious allegations’. These group of men and women from the Teh Tarik crew whom God has raised up to ask for transparency and accountability in the church have nothing whatsoever to gain by raising their concerns; they have everything to lose but yet, they choose to do so because they love God and they love the church and do not want the devil to destroy what God has built.
But somehow, due to your deep sense of loyalty and devotion to one man, you have chosen to disregard the concerns of these church members and instead stood by your ground to defend your pastor regardless of whether he is right or wrong. Loyalty is a good thing but blind loyalty is
nothing to be proud of.
I was shocked to hear that you have chosen to use the ways of the world to shut the church members up during the recent EGM, ie. by employing an external lawyer and accountant to prove that all is right and that there are no irregularities. In a church context, it is not just legal issues that matter, but what is more important are the moral and spiritual issues and this I must say, have been totally neglected by the board of deacons from the way you handled the queries and concerns raised by the Teh Tarik crew and from the poor decisions you have made.
I have been a voting member for the past many years and played a small part in choosing some of you as my board of deacons, as the group of leaders whom I respected, the group of people which many of us have placed confidence in to protect the interest of the church members and to speak up for those of us who are not able to. But to my deepest disappointment, this was not done as evidently seen in the light of all these events arising from the AGM and EGM. I am saddened that the Board of Deacons have instead chosen to cover up for the many irregularities and bad governance practiced by the church for so many years. Even when the accountant declared that there was indeed not enough transparency and accountability in the church accounts and in CIM, not one word of apology was ever heard from the senior pastor or from the deacons for having kept the church members in the dark for so many years, for transferring funds out of the church into a personal ministry, for deceiving the church members into thinking that the hard earned money which we have given to the church all these years was used to help real missions work and to help the needy when in reality, they were used to fund a pastor and his ‘travelling expenses’.
I have since become so disillusioned with the dishonesty of the church leadership and the lack of love from the church leaders that I have decided to stop serving and step down as a musician in Calvary Church. I am sure to many of you, one individual seems totally insignificant in the grand ol’ hierarchy of the Church but I would like to inform you that it has a far deeper meaning for me as a Christian, as a child of God. I love playing music for the Lord and have been doing so for the past many years. But I cannot play anymore under the leadership of a group of people who have betrayed my trust and respect. I cannot serve God anymore in a church which does not care for and which does not love its church members and instead, start witch-hunting and preaching sermons (and even influencing guest speakers to preach sermons) to condemn those who dare to question. I cannot be joyful and be at peace anymore under a pastor who cares more about furthering his own kingdom instead of God’s kingdom. And I cannot be a Christian under a group of deacons who only serve to protect the interest of one man, and not the church as a whole. Calvary Church does not just belong to a single person or his family, it belongs to the few thousand people who attend the church faithfully every week; to grow in the Lord and to worship Him.
And I am sure I have not been the only church member to have been hurt and disillusioned by this turn of events. Many others too are either considering leaving the church and some have become bitter and angry and refuse to even go to church anymore. Those who still choose to attend Calvary to keep up the good fight of faith and righteousness are meanwhile not able to accept any of the sermons being preached anymore from the pulpit as it all seems so fake and hypocritical.
You may ask why I am writing this seemingly trivial letter to you. The reason why I am doing so is to let you all be aware that every decision and action made by the board has severe consequences in the kingdom of God. Your actions are hurting many, many faithful church members – both young and old, people who just want to serve God but are not able to anymore because of the decisions you have made. Your very actions are hindering Calvarites in reaching their true potential for the Lord.
I do not in any way mean to be disrespectful by writing this letter but I am sure this is not the first letter received by the Board on such matters and I am sure this will not be the last. You can choose to disregard and throw this letter away as you did the petition signed by so many of us faithful church members but I hope and pray with all my heart that God will open your eyes so that you may see the truth and not be blinded anymore.
Lastly, I hope you will forgive me if you feel that I have been too harsh in this letter or that I am being disrespectful to any of you. Nevertheless, thank you for taking the time to read this letter and I pray that you will indeed be faithful to your calling and do the right thing for the church members and the future generations of Calvary Church.
Regards,
(The writer of this letter is one of the young working adults in the church. As such, we have chosen to withold the identity of this writer to protect this writer's interest)
108 comments:
Don't give up. Man may fail you but the Lord is faithful, and He has said He will never leave you nor forsake you. Keep looking to Jesus, the Author and Finisher of your faith.
Just like charitos, I like to encourage you not to look up to men, but keep your eyes on Jesus, our Lord and Saviour.
May God's voice be loud and clear to the leadership, whom God has entrusted much and so are demanded of much.
Our God Reigns!
How are you? Is always a joy to see you play the piano every Sunday at Cheras. How I wished I can play like you. Is a gift God has bestowed upon you.
It sadden my heart to read the mail. Tears are rolling down as i type this email. How did the church come to this situation?????
I believe God knew it all along and now is the time to purge the sins out from the church. Jesus said,
My House shall be called a House of Prayers but you have make it into a den of thieves.
Our part right now is to ask God to remove the thieves in His House. We are praying everyday for God to remove SP. Do pray along with us. God has His own timing and His ways are higher than our ways. So are His Thoughts.
May I share this song with you,
Jesus is my Savior, I shall not be moved
In His Love and Favor, I shall not be moved
Just like a tree thats planted by the waters
Lord, I shall not be moved
I shall not be, I shall not be moved
I shall not be, I shall not be moved
Just like a tree thats planted by the waters
Lord, I shall not be moved
Of course the easiest way out is to attend another church. And if we do that the happiest person will be SP. Satan will also be laughing at us.
We believe God answer prayers,
We believe prayer changes things,
Lets believe that our Almighty God will lead us to higher ground.
Continue to press on!!!!
My name is________, I understand how u feel. In the contrary, I felt the same dissillusion about the TT crew as for now.
Let me begin to share my view. In the beginning of the "TT Crew movement", I hold a very neutral stand between TT Crew & CC. I pray that God will help me to discern wisely to understand the whole situation. I even signed the first petition to support the plea of the TT Crew.
The reason I support the TT member is I found their call & reasons are valid. Although I do not know their full agenda, but their calls for transparency & asking for accountability seems valid & in very thoughtful/unharmful manner. I was even excited on the last EGM to see how the church is going to respond to the TT members & the rest of church members.
To my horror is that I found so many accusations from the TT crew that does not seems godly.
Let me share my view here in point form,
1. TT crew sent an email to me claiming that SP is going to seek legal action towards TT member. Later I found out that actually it was a CC member who is also a lawyer, advising/reminding the TT crew that their allegation & accusation could be held responsible legally. Infact, SP "can" take legal action towards the TT Crew. I call up a friend who work fulltime in church, and he told me that the church & SP will never bring anyone to court case, cause it is obviously not what the Bible thought us. But TT Crew twisted the story by influencing people that SP had already hired a lawyer to sent them a lawyer warning letter. I must admit, I believe TT email when I read it & start judging SP merely on an email I received.
2. Plea for transparency for the CIM account.
To the TT crew, the last EGM was a victory they claimed. To me, the last EGM show who they really are, & they are really good in manipulating. They are malicious, judgemental, unjust & graceless. No mean to be rude, they are like the devil whom try to judge a child of God in a court case. First of all, all the deacons are voted by the CC member, before we can judge them, first all CC member must be responsible for the vote they cast. Secondly, are the deacons guilty of making mistake? Yes & no. Yes, they make some mistakes but bear in mind they are all having a family & peaple with a fulltime career. And they are not getting any allowance/salary for serving as deacons. Like what the 3rd party laywer Mr.Wong said, we don't have to be so hard & graceless towards the deacons, cause after all they are serving without any pay. I serve as a musician in church too, without the church paying me. I too make mistake, late, play wrong key/chord. Music Pastor/leader did reminded me graciously to improve my priority in music ministry, I totally accept & strife my best to improve. It will be a different story if someone starting to accuse me for play the wrong chords all the time or not up to the professional music & etc. I'm happy to resign & after all I'm not getting any pay from the church. I'm honest to tell everyone here, if the devil judge/accuse my commitment, efforts, music skills & etc, I'm indeed not fit to serve Him as a musician. Thank God for He is gracious. The TT crew I see otherwise. Oop! Sorry for being long winded. Have we touch on the transparency? I'll come back to that.
3. Before the EGM, I read on a TT Crew's blog. He is a very good writer. He start sharing informations/writings on the topic of the need for transparency. His feeling of betrayal & dissillusion of CC. Honestly, I was touched by his sincere writingon his concern of the future of CC. I can't deny that his intention is good but wondering whether is godly when I look at peoples comments on his writings. He is popular cause many people read his articles left a comment or two. The comments left in his blog is nothing but malicious, baseless, undignify accusation towards SP. Honestly, I don't like SP. Seriously, I don't like SP & his leaders cause I feel they restrict mny things in church. But they don't deserve the accusation & malicious slanders from peoples/TT members.
Well, sorry for being long winded again. Hve we touch on the CIM transparency issue yet? That's right. I find the TT keep telling people transparency issue, but in the midst of that, many malicious remark & accusation had been made towards SP & deacons.
Lastly, yes, the 3rd party accountant did mention more transparency should be inplemented in CIM & Church account. Did thousands of CC member heard that? Yes, we heard & the deacons & leaders say they will do that. Does the 3,000 CC members needs the 800 self professing TT members to save the church from wrong doing? Not for me to say. My own view is, I need only God to help me to discern. I won't easily pass the church account & I won't easily trust everything/email I received from the TT Crew.
Pardon me my english writing. I seldom write but can't help to make an exception.
Regards
KL Boy
Dear KL Boy
I suggest that you read through all the posts in this Blog for a better understanding of the Saga Calvary Church is in.
The crisis facing Calvary Church now is the Lack of Transparency and Accountability to worshipers who have been so generous in their givings, the purpose of which is for the Glory of God not any individual.
Read especially this post:
http://calvarytoday.blogspot.com/2008/09/29-august-2008-without-prejudice-open.html
Handling money from congregations is a huge responsibility, and SP, pastors and deacons should know that.
Dear KL Boy,
Sorry you were so disillusioned with the TT group. Do you realise that your comments is filled with emotions!! The TT group were filled with emotions when they discovered the wrong doings. Of course everyone, including you, acted unChristian like but then everyone is human.
You are acting the same way as they did - are you now not the jury and judge of the TT group. You obviously seemed very confused.
You said "Honestly, I don't like SP. Seriously, I don't like SP & his leaders.." and " I won't easily pass the church account & I won't easily trust everything/email I received from the TT Crew"
Good for you to depend on God for discernment. Praise God for that.
Looks as if you would never be able to pass the church account if the management of the church does not change. Look at the structure of the church - it is so controlled. The BOD has absolute control and SP has absolute control of the BOD. Now please start praying that God change that structure.
It blows my mind that the person in the centre of the controversy has not stepped out to say anything!! Everyone seems to be thinking of an excuse for him. Remember he is not Jesus (who never sin) who kept quiet in the face of accusations If he has inadvertendly done anything amiss - come out and apologise, put things right and let us move on for more transparency and accountabily. then the church will be Spirit filled again.
Let all bloggers be careful what they say - be mindful of the words and accusations made.
Faithfulsoul,
Thanks for reminding. I just read the article link you sent me. My own conclusion is(point form),
BOD orchestrated the EGM to hide the truth? This is fact or TT's own opinion. This is axactly the baseless accusation I'm talking about. Is EGM is infact orchestrated to be organized & clear. But TT own opinion is that SP signal this & that; Deacons try to hide & etc.
What I see is TT member keep giving grandfather's story of their history & their belief. They also became preachy whenever one of them get hold of the microphone. That's when I saw their true intention to bring down people & inpart their own belief to thousand of CC member.
After reading the whole article of QUESTIONS UNANSWERED AT THE 15 AUGUST 2008 EGM. I can help but to feel sorry for the writer. I realised 1 obvious thing is. Since we all like questions. here is another 1.
Q1: Why the TT member find there is nothing right being done in the last EGM?
TT's Opinion (to them they claim in the fact) on the last EGM
opinion1: Pas.Guynes is sort the puppet in the last EGM. He look for signals from SP & being told the half truth by the deacons.
opinion2: The EGM is conducted in a very regrattable, uncontitutional, member can't let out their full question & etc.
opinion3: It was disappointing to see how members who wanted to share the facts and ask questions were sidelined, and consequently those who came hoping to know the truth of the matter were denied. TT just want to share their belief(not fact), & became preachy when member suppose to just ask questions. Of course, to the TT member, it is all the deacon plans & schemes. Whether how the rest of the CC member feel about the meeting obviously does not concern them. TT member want to let out whatever they want to say, if not, TT would claim CC denied the truth to them include all members. I was there in the EGM, I felt the TT member wasting alot of the member's time by telling grandfather's story.
Opinion4: Deacon & SP denied all resolution sent in by the CC member? It should be, resolution was sent it by TT member. Why TT member want to include/on behalf to the rest of the 3000++ CC member? I remebered I once supported TT to plea for transpanrecy. Not the later resolution to ask SP to step down & etc.
opinion5: There is a grey area between CC & CIM. It is ok to doubt whether the fund is being misuse. And according to the 3rd party legal consultant & accountant, the account of CC & CIM appear to be healthy. But not enough for the TT member. 1 TT member question to the 3 rd account almost make me cry. He asked:"What is all the account is faulty?"
Just picture this, let said SP step down & we had a brand new SP of our choice. Every year in EGM I ask the same questions to our brand new SP. "How can I be sure whether the account you produce is make up & faulty?" What answer our new SP should reply me. Things will go round & round unending. I think(just my opinion) the 3rd party account could be thinking while he was trying to answer this question. Don't u have little trust on your SP, or Pastors, Deacons, leaders, church workers? Anyone at all, whatabout God whom we believe is Almighty? Doesn't the Bible taught this group of people on faith, grace, love.....?
Now, let see TT member's opinion on all the deacon we vote for.
opinion6: Bro.Edward
This whole statement of Edward’s is very confusing, and to borrow an expression, ‘it’s full of holes’.
All deacons are the puppets of SP & orchestrated the whole EGM.
All in all, nothing is solve & the EGM is utterly regretful cause it cover up truth.
Lastly, these question leads to 1 BIG QUESTION for myself to answer.
IS ALL THE OPINIONS/VIEWS OF TT MEMBER FACTS OR ASSUMPTION?
KL Boy,
i hear what you're saying.
In reference to you talking about serving as a musician, i've been a musician for 10 years.
All i can say is that the pain that i've been through, the way i've been treated and the things that have been done is something you have not yet gone through just yet.
When you have gone through that from the music department, maybe you might begin using your emotions to speak your heart, just as many have done here. Just as the writer of this letter has done so as well.
I tell you that many of these aren't ALLEGATIONS. I have seen with my own eyes so many of these issues.
Many TT member utter encouragement to each other by saying, "trust not man, man will fail you. Only trust God. God will never fail you".
Using this verse in the context TT member & SP. It sounds like/People may be translating this verse as,
Trust no man includes SP, cause SP can fail you. Instead, trust God alone.
Just my reminder & my fair stand.
Trust no man includes TT members(who could mislead me), SP(who could misuse the fund of CC). Instead trust God alone.
People who read this blog. Please don't easily believe whatever opinions, articles or emails TT member sent you. To be fair as well, please don't easily believe naively the church account easily. Evaluate both with God's wisdom.
Regards
KL Boy
KL Boy,
I'm not a TT crew but I'm just wondering why on one hand, you can say that the TT crew are like the devil and on the other hand, you are saying that the TT crew should not judge SP etc. Aren’t you also judging the TT crew and making malicious assumptions abt them?
I think perhaps you do not fully understand what the TT crew are trying to achieve. These are church members who have been in church for the past 20-30 years, some even longer than the time SP has been in church. Do you think they are doing this just for fun? All of them are also serving God unpaid, so it is not just the deacons or SP who have availed their time and efforts to serve God. These ppl are also proposing for the constitution to be amended and once that is done, this will prevent any future senior pastors to be tempted in the same way as SP was,ie. to misuse their authority. So, by SP stepping down and the constitution being changed, there will be no more of such queries being raised in AGM.
As for the part on the deacons, sorry to say that we didn't actually choose the deacons as in reality, the nomination process has already been compromised as SP only allows ppl who are his yes men to be a nominee. So the nominees we see during AGM have already been filtered and whoever we choose from that group are already yes men.Also, you are right to say they are just human and it is normal to make mistakes but they should at least hv the guts to apologize on their mistakes.
On your last sentence of asking for God’s wisdom, yes, I too pray that everyone will ask for God’s wisdom and see the truth. I am basing my opinions not just on the TT crew’s opinions, so pls don’t assume that everyone just listens to what they say. We also have been given common sense by God to be able to think for ourselves and based on my own common sense and wisdom from God, I believe the actions done by TT crew are timely.
Kind Rgds
Dear kl boy, I have gone through all the articles of the TT group and none of them has urged us to trust them. End of the day, each one of us has to discern what we hear from either side if they are true. Like you say, trust God only but God has also given us wisdom. When you see so many members leaving (visit SIB and you will see a mini Calvary church there), it says something. You may not be able to put a finger on what's wrong but you know something is wrong. Question is what are you going to do about it? Make noise like the TT group or keep mum. Remember God will also hold us accountable if we see a wrong and keep mum.
To: Wind of change & SS,
Nice to hear your replies. Am I being judgemental & bias towards TT members? If it makes you feel that way, I apologise sincerely.
When I said I feel very sad when I saw many wrongful accusations towards the SP, pastors & deacons, did any TT member apologise to them/me. No, cause to the TT member, "SP REALLY DID IT BY USING THE CC MONEY FOR HIMSELF"
What my main point is this. People who are writting/reading in this blog, somehow find more favor towards the TT. I don't blame them, cause the blog is meant to update the TT members on the latest updates. I'm the only odd reader here.
Sad to say that the TT member fail to convinced me to my core to believe/participate in any of their good work to save CC.
Not that I trust SP & distrust TT. Simply because the TT member's action is unbiblical. How can our mouth flow poisonous water(Accusation) to against SP(evil).
If only I do not hear that TT leaders exaggerating that SP sent them official lawyer warning letter, I would respect them more.
If only TT member acted more graciously, I would respect them more.
If only TT member talk more graciously, I would respect them more.
If only TT member writes more meaningful articles, I would respect them more.
If only TT member make this blog more constructive to the body of Christ, I would respect them more.
I must repeat myself again by saying this, if by now you think I don't support TT members. Yes, you are right, I don't. If I do, I would sound exactly like many of you here. Like these, "I really concern on SP salvation", "I pray that God would remove SP cause he is the biggest stronghold in CC", "Ooh... those TT members are more than 20 years christian in CC, they must be spiritual enough to know the bad condition in CC."
Am I a Pro-Calvarite member to follow them blindly? Does anyone of you here seen me writting that protesting that SP is innocent? No. Cause I understand that 20 years TT member could fall in the same way our old SP could fall as well. But why all I hear from TT is that SP is confirmed wrong in everything he does & all the deacons are confirmed nothing but yes man to SP. How does the TT know for sure. Could there be just 1 deacon is trying to do the right thing. If in my comments stated that I firmly belief that TT members have secret agendas in all their doing. And I confirm to the core that they are trying to split the church & create disunity among the body of Christ. Then, you are welcome to tell me that I'm bias & judgemental, cause how do I know for sure about the TT member.
Lastly, if my comments upsets you. I know the reasons why. Cause pardon me to be the odd reader here who simply stand firmly & neutral & side no one here. If I really side SP, you will read me writting this, "I pray that God would remove the TT member from CC". "I'm concern about the salvation of the TT member".
So TT members & supporters, please make me proud to see that all of you are big hearted enough to hear my odd comments. After all, I simply let out my opinion similar to what the TT members are letting out onto SP & deacons. I believe the TT member can take a little rock the boat.
Make me proud this time.
Best regards.
Please do not reply to KL Boy. He is obviously very confused. Let's leave him alone to pray.
My wife & I feel that it's better to stop rocking the boat in this blog. Cause no one seems to be able to take it.
Whoever the anonymous is, what a courageous suggestions you offer to everyone to let me alone to pray cause I'm confused.......
To whoever the anonymous is,
I thought I'm a gutless person until I read your suggestion.
My wife & my stand is never to sign anymore petition in support to the any suggestion of the TT member. Once being used is enough!
KL Boy has some valid point too. I agree some of it, not all.
Why no TT leaders to reply/defence themselves. Are they too scared just to ignore KL boy's point?
Why leave the questions KL Boy has to others to make up excuses for them?
To: Mr KL Boy
Please do not quarrel .... the blog is meant to express genuine concerns..
pray and pray ok...
Dear Spikee,
I'm glad that you reply me. I think this should be my last comment here.
Honestly, I don't know how to answer your questions. Not because I don't want to but truly I don't know how.
Let me be as direct & simple to my points of my few comments I made here.
My point:
I'm intended to disagree some points the TT holds just to show that anyone has the right to disagree. When somone disagree everyone here, what is the reactions of everyone here?
So, I beginning to use my emotion to disagree & made my points public here. But seems like everyone is bashing me except you, Spikeee.
And when my emotion drives me to use hard words & descriptions towards the TT group you all supported, it gets into everyone's nerves to called me confused. Is that right? Itsn't every hardcore TT member writting their points & made it public against SP is hard as well? Is that acceptable?
And naive normal reader(no mean to insult their naiveness) of this blog gets influenced by the emotional articles by the TT, and they begins the make their supportive comments, later they also make hard & mean remarks towards SP & deacons. Is that right?
I'm just behaving the opposite way to show you that I think what the TT member are doing is inappropriate. TT using their emotion writtings(made public) towards SP are God inspired. My emotion comments(made public) towards TT member are wrong. I'm confused. Itsn't it double standard.
Spikeee, yes, when I use nickname here in the begining, I already decided to cover my identity. Called it coward, I accept & agree with you. After all, I'm not going to write here anymore.
I have faith that our differnces will not change anything on the friendship we have in Christ.
Thank you KL Boy for voicing your concerns and disappointments.
We believe you are referring to our 7th Update whereby we responded to a certain lawyer’s threat. Many concerned members (cm) alerted us and forwarded the Warning to us actually in fear and trembling. We also received many sms asking for our comment.
We therefore decided to write the 7th Update in response to the Warning and also to assure the (cm) that we will be willing to undertake any consequences that may arise as a result of our actions. We will standby and stand up for anyone who is being intimidated because of us – The TT Crew.
I know you did not read these words in the Update. That’s because we cannot put our thoughts and motivation for our actions in writing especially under the circumstances we are in.
This is what we received from some (cm) as to the origin of this lawyer’s Warning which caused us to write that Update. Is it therefore wrong for us to conclude that this lawyer was engaged by our pastor /s or deacon /s?
From: David Seah [mailto:dseah@calvary.org.my]
Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2008 4:38 PM
To:
Subject: FW: URGENT - WARNING ABOUT PETITION TO REMOVE SP FROM OFFICE
Hi,
This may help some of whom you are guiding & helping.
Rgds.
----- Original Message -----
From: yoke yee chin - yy3_chin@yahoo.com
To:
Sent: Mon Aug 04 02:54:59 2008
Subject: Fw: URGENT - WARNING ABOUT PETITION TO REMOVE SP FROM OFFICE
Please take time to read through Rani's Reply to Petition - download, print it to read and digest. It is important that you take time to read through although it is a lengthy note. It is an opinion to give some thought.
Thank You
At the EGM on 15.08.08, we saw and heard for ourselves that the church leadership did engage a lawyer and an auditor to give us their views or findings. So who told the previous lawyer to express her view ? We don’t know but she claimed that she wrote it on her own accord without instructions. The pastor and church staff above subsequently claimed that they sent the Warning to the members on their own initiative.
KL Boy, we also like to say that when we the TT Crew write, we always identify ourselves. Except for this blog where we collectively call ourselves Calvary Today. Berita Calvary was created on 26-08-08 and Calvary Today was created on 3.09.08. You could not have read any of our TT Crew’s blog before the EGM on 15.08.08.
Please do not tarnish other people’s good name just because you have an issue with us. Just because they make mention about the church things does not mean that they are people from our Team unless they say so. Many including those who are writing comments on this blog are not from our known TT Crew members. You asked, “Does the 3,000 CC members needs the 800 self professing TT members to save the church from wrong doing?” The TT members or any other person speaking out to ask for Transparency & Accountability in the church are not out to Save the church. We have no power to do that. Only God can Save. We can only PRAY and “make noise” like someone said.
We find it interesting that our words are given nice names but actually we have no idea what it is? First, we were supposed to have made “malicious allegations”. Then now you say we told “grandfather's story of their history & their belief.” Can you please tell us the “grandfather’s story” so that we will not repeat it again.
Finally, KL Boy, what do you mean by this, “When I said I feel very sad when I saw many wrongful accusations towards the SP, pastors & deacons, did any TT member apologise to them/me.” Are you the SP, pastors or deacons here that we need to apologise to? Now I have my doubts as to who you really are?
BTW it is not because we are afraid to answer or need others to answer on our behalf. Although we thank all those who did so on our behalf.
We are a group of people who need to work to feed our families. Some of us are in meetings, meeting clients, teaching classes or travelling. Sometimes we may be waiting for a reply to our seeking permission to quote from.
As we work as a Team, we also normally try to get a common consensus before we respond to act or say in this blog. So we apologise if we respond late.
kl boy, if u feel that your wife and u have been 'used' by the tt folks just for signing 1 single petition, imagine how the rest of us hundreds of church members feel on being 'used' by SP all these many years. perhaps u should stop blaming the tt ppl for 'making u sign' the petition since no one actually forced you to sign it.how different r u from the very ppl you are accusing now on being malicious and baseless since u are also doing the very same thing now, ie. being malicious and baseless?
One thing I learned is that everyone has a right to his or her own opinion. Even though we may not agree with them, we still need to respect him/her as an individual.
After reading through the comments, I could feel the emotions from various writers. Nevertheless, I feel this is good. This blog gives the opportunity for all to voice their thoughts and concerns.
Personally, I attended 2 of the TT group sessions in KBU. I don't recall them forcing anyone of us to sign the petitions. So, in my opinion, for KL Boy to say that he and the wife were "used" by the TT group to sign on the petitions is not right. I was there, therefore I need to make this right.
Let me relate a true incident. I was at a meeting (one of the Calvary Church Ministry)one Friday morning just before the Saturday afternoon meeting organized by the TT group in KBU (the last meeting before the EGM). We were asked to discuss and give our opinion with regards to all that were happening in the church. One of the members mentioned that she was told by another friend of hers that non calvarites and non regular worshippers at Calvary Church were invited to attend the TT group meeting. And before you know it, most who were there started to attack and give negative comments about the TT group.
I'm glad to have asked them just this simple question: are you very sure that the invitation to the outsiders were given/sent by the TT group? Couldn't anyone after receiving the invitation sent it out?
After the praise and worship session that Saturday afternoon, before the meeting proper was conducted, one of the "leaders" in the TT group actually made an announcement requesting all non calvarites and non regular worshippers at Calvary Church to excuse themselves from the meeting.
Immediately after the meeting, I sms the member above to tell her that what she heard was not true. I was at the meeting and I heard loud and clear the announcement made by the above TT group leader.
I may sound like I'm supporting the TT group. Let's put it this way; I'm a Truth Seeker and I'm all for transparency, truth, and fairness. I can never tolerate when someone tries to prevent another party from voicing their opinion. Just like what is happening in our country currently. I would never just read and listen from the mainstream media. I go to Malaysiakini, Malaysia-Today, Suara Keadilan, Rocket and Harakah for "the other side of the story". Similarly, I would like to listen to the TT group as to what they have to say and at the same time speak to the Pastors to find out more information. Then, I make my own decision.
Personally, I was very disappointed with the way the EGM was conducted. With due respect to Pastor Guynes, the way he conducted the meeting was not professional and fair. By restricting questions from the floor made the situation worst. We were told by the leaders of the church not to attend the outside meetings conducted by the TT group, and that all queries would be answered during the EGM. But, look at what happened during the EGM. Not everyone gets a chance to ask. Pastor Guynes was just there for the meeting and after that he would be back to his church. So, what's next? Frankly, did the EGM address all issues and questions affecting our church? NO!!! I was really hoping that the leaders of the church would keep to their words in allowing all questions and queries to be answered that night. What a disappointment! I must admit here that the moment SP made the statement that he was happy that everyone was given a chance to ask questions and that their questions were answered, I walked out of the church, before the closing prayer.
On the contrary, I personally believe that some of the TT group members do have some personal issues with SP. This is sometimes so clearly seen in the way they put forward their questions.
I'm not here to judge anyone. Like I've said before and I'm saying it again, if any party believes that SP has done something wrong, propose a Truth Enquiry Committee to investigate and give SP a chance to defend himself. I believe everyone is innocent unless proven guilty. I'll sign on the petition for the setting up of the Truth Enquiry Committee.
Well, as for the leaders of the church, they need to be truthful and sincere in solving the issues affecting the church. It's very sad to see that fairness is not practice in church.
By the way, has anyone been granted the permission by the BOD to see the reports by the external lawyer and auditors? Probably you could share with us.
I welcome your comments and sharing.
God bless.
One of our TT members has officially written to the deacons on 29 August requesting for a copy of the lawyer and auditor's reports but todate, she has yet to receive them. So no-one from TT team has seen or read the reports.
Thanks moderator. I would write in officially to request for the reports. Let's see what happens.
God bless.
to :Joe
just to clarify, when i asked question during the EGM, it is not bcoz i hv personal issue with SP, but its the facts of the matter.. please do not conclude that some "do have personal issues with SP" it is not appropriately judged as per ur comment.
If we all think about it honestly, there is no way we can discuss these church issues without getting personal with SP. We are not personal with SP becoz we hate him as a person. We only hate his wrong-doings but as a person, we like him. So I believe there is no malice intended when the members mention him or "accuse" him (as a few suggested) in the on-going discussions.
To: facts of the matter
Praise God for you don't have any personal issues with SP when you put forward your questions.
One thing I don't understand, why are you taking it so very personal? Could it be... Anyway...
God bless.
hi this has being my latest habit i pick up since the blog had started is to read all this comments before i head on home instead of parking the car on the road(jam).
a lot of emotion are pour out in the comments i had read and i know all this come form the very depth of every heart. We have became more confuse, frustrated and unable to integrated christian principle with practices in the church. be your the TT or the cc group. one presume they are only 2 groups writing here. Some may have other agenda which is only know to themselves.so please do not conclude some emotion words or accusation represents the TT group.
i would prefer to be know as a truth seeker as one writer aptly put it. if we can come to terms with what is happening and make reference to what we read in the Bible. i was wisely taught to make references to the final authority to my life which is the Bible.
i see an argument on what is truth. i think we are talking about opinion. any truth being look at any way remain the truth. we can have millions of opinions. Lets presue the truth. seek truth and look for truth in ever circumstances.
Truth can be tested. so why cant the church system and practices be put to a test.
"Best practices" or what you may call it coporate world is to protect minority and also to ensure integerity is being question.Our church have some qood practice which are used even till today. we dont consel opposite sex. all pastor declare all they gift they receive to the church( oops not all..... He dont so why not?????). why 2 sets of rules.
why is it ok for the BOD to transfer fund to SP personal ministry for 6 years without letting the member know. some BAD guys found out and now they say we cant take it back.On august 15 we were told CIM is not represented here.( i see the entire CIM board seated in the EGM) those are money given with specific purpose.
SP wisely reply that he need to travel to India if he is call to ministry in India in other words travelling is necesary.His answer is obvious but does he need the most luxurious mode of transport(oops i am speculating). Does he know an airline call Air Asia. Sorry i am being personal now but i cant help it. it bleeds my heart to know that people are willing to believe that they is nothing wrong with the church system and practices.
We cant even pass the simplest of test.
i am not against anyone in particular. i know most if not all the church staff and the TT group
We are here wanting to know why cant the church be willing to let the system go through the test of intererity instead defend the system and justify what has being done is legally correct.
someone once say , who himself is not a christian ,legally right may not be morally right.i have personal done thing in the coporate world which i know is not right it i reflect it on the Bible but it is perfectly all right if i will to check it against the income tax law. Which law do i follow? that depends which God i want to please. i ma not perfect i am a struggling christian bring up a christian family where there is so many contraction. The last thing i want to hear from my children are why does the church preach and practice differently.
If the TT group are malicious as they were declare by the BOD why does the church has to worry.truth will always prevail.
But i plea if anyone of you feel like what i feel go seek the truth and stand by what your heart tell you
to the BOD
Can we just take from another without telling and then justify that sorry i have given it away now i cant take it back. when it was ask to be return he say you gave to me.if it was any other person i can accept that answer but he is someone who heads the movement.
How can the BOD justify a wrong with some legal opinion appointed by themselves.
Now the EGM is over we were promise some changes . someday it will happen unless some bad guys ask about it again.
This is in reply to KL Boy’s comments. I’m the writer of the letter above and I’m sure you know who I am just like I know who you are since we both served in the same ministry.
Fair enough that you have a right to your opinions just as the rest of us have a right to ours, but I hope you will think twice before accusing the group of TT members for “being malicious, telling grandfather stories, twisting stories, being unjust, acting ‘like the devil’, making use of you” etc.
I don’t blame you for feeling emotional as we are only human and I too have been very emotional about all that is happening in church. The difference though is that your disillusionment is only towards a group of people who were questioning and seeking the truth but my disillusionment is towards a person who was supposed to be our shepherd but have betrayed the trust of his sheep - Ezekiel 34:1-10
Undeniably, your emotions are as real as mine but I sincerely hope that your hurt is not as deep as mine is as it is certainly not easy to recover from such a spiritual letdown.
God Bless
to: joe
not personal but constructive, unless anyone or yourself had personally asked all those who asked questions " why are the particular individual asked that particular questions" otherwise it is still unfair to comment and presume that they are having personal issues..
to:kk
Aiyo, dear kk, why you talk like that on the blog? The TT had got all answers --all the updates and questions and statements made before they direct their questions to the Chairman during the EGM. Did you really pay attention during the EGM?
KL Boy,
I assume you are a young member of the church. Which is why you may not know the whole story of S.P. and his many years of controlling the church, the deacons, the leaders, & through these many years he had schemed & plotted to manipulate the church's mission funds to benefit his own ministry. The CIM was launched almost 10 years ago, surely a devious plan that must have taken many years to be hatched & executed.
Have you ever asked why Calvary Church's mission funds were always sent abroad to help big, foreign churches whereas hardly any significant amount had been used to help the smaller, local A/G churches in Malaysia? I believe Rev. Bernard Blessing pointed this out a few years ago. All these years, S.P. had been building His own ministry, His own kingdom, establishing his own fame and promoting his own name,internationally.
The accounts are plainly set before you. Isn't that proof enough for you? Why do you choose to remain so blinded? Loyalty is good but 'blind loyalty' should be checked.
The TT crew are all matured, godly senior members [previously all church leaders] of Calvary Church. Surely, they must have enough proofs before they come to this stage of demanding for accountability & transparency from S.P. Is it wrong to speak up for righteousness, transparency & accountability?
Fairplay,
Thanks you for your message. A few very powerful points you brought up & it's not hard to see where you're coming from. Your points is so clear & it's hard to dismiss it. It sort of confirmed some views I have that I hold strongly. Again I say thanks to your concern on my state of confussion due to my previous comment. Your concern whether I'm blinded in many ways is very much appreciated. I'll seek God for help. I'll try my very best to see SP in the light of controlling, plotting, scheming, cheating & manipulating the church in many years. Can't help but to feel amazed that you used all these words in one sentence to describe our "fallen SP". I'll ask God why I didn't see the true color of SP even Bernard Blessing (maybe more special speakers) hinting so clearly of our "fallen" SP. I'll try my best to see the benefit of this blog & it's wonderful & unjudgemental reader comments. I hope that I sound more like everyone here. I try my best to repent for making "troubles" here that got everyone so concern over my confussion & dissillusion. I hope this will ease everyone here & I'll try my very best to be the person everyone finds "ok" here. Thanks to everyone who took the trouble to reply me.
To: KL Boy
First my name is KL Girl, do i asound like you now? But what's the point for me trying to prove myself to sound like everyone here as you claim... please pray that God reign's in our heart and have a open heart, mind, ears to hear HI
S CRY for God's children.
Dear all...I think it's time we stop replying to KL Boy's messages. Based on his last comment, you can pretty much see and discern what he's trying to do and nothing we say to him will change his mind.Let's just pray that God will open his eyes.
There is a saying, "If its too hot get out of the kitchen!"
If playing an instrument is more important to you than growing in Christ it may be time for some self examination. Sometimes we hold on to things that hinder us. In order to grow you have to let go of the old. This may be your ministry, your old way of thinking, your giftings, your friends, even your belief that you have to vindicate yourself as being right.
If you don't get spiritually fed in a church LEAVE. Its really simple. There are some great churches out there where you will be fed spiritually. Feeding a spirit of bitterness by biting your lip and attending a church where you hate the senior pastor is being spiteful to your own spiritual growth.
Suggestions of churches are RLC, SIB, DUMC. But a word of warning...spreading bitter pus in any of these may get you branded as a malcontent. Give it to God and start with a clean slate. Life is too short to waste on trying to be vindicated. After all, that is God's job and you will be the happier for it.
BTW you guys are aware that member s of other denominations, HINDUS AND MUSLIMS are now reading these blogs? By not accepting the findings of an independent inquiry you have done much to damage the cause of the gospel. These people now see the gospel as powerless, and that the people of God do not believe in the power of prayer. It is a sad, sad day :-(
And all because some people want to vindicate themselves!
To anonymous,
I totally agree with you with all my heart. I hold similar view as you.
If I don't like SP in Calvary, I'm happy to find Spiritual food & Sanctuary else where. My job does not permit me to attend every Sunday in CC, so occasionally I attend DUMC Saturday service. I'm happy to settle there if I choose to.
And your view on Non-christian whom reading this blog & it's comments may find us ridiculous fighting & accusing each other is sad indeed. I could not agree more with you.
But, get ready to be bashed by TT supportors for your comments. They will tell you that your comments should be directed to SP. TT members are just truthful people who want to expose lies & to be good steward. Nevermind if people find them bias & ungracious. They will justify their way around. They will tell you that they are not getting personal with SP, they don't hate him persnally but hate "what he has done". Nevermind if their deeds is obviously unloving towards a single individual. Nevermind the Bible taught us to love our enemies. Nevermind the Bible taught us to find 2 or 3 persons to correct a brother in Christ who sins with love & if the person refuse to repent, leave him to God to dicipline. Forget about all these, they just want to make it public to expose a single person accordings to their evidents & emotions.
Thanks Weng. I spent many years on the mission field (not with Calvary or the Assemblies) witnessing in areas with cults, as well as being a student of Christian history. Due to this back ground I understand very sincere people can become severely deceived. When this happens they must release their hurt to the Lord as it is He alone who is our source and vindicator. Not doing so leads to bitterness, damage and division.
Sadly, these three are the fruit of the Teh Tarik Brigade and are remarkably similar to Jesus words regarding Satan's mission. To steal, kill and destroy. Satan loves division, and thrives in it, breeding suspicion and animosity.
Were we a company, no one would dare question the CEOs expenses, especially one who had continued to be so successful. Cars would be provided and first class or business travel would be the norm.
The root is someone has been hurt, then believed a lie Satan has slipped under their armour, perhaps even the one that says pastors must be poor to be spiritual. I will tell you...I have been there. While in full time service I lived for weeks with less than 50 sen in my pocket. It did not make me feel more spiritual
Calvary church is definitely not perfect, but it has a vision to reach the world. Removing Snr Pastor will mean replacing him with another man not likely to have the same vision, and thus we will move away from Gods calling to us as a church. Many thousands have responded to the evangelistic message of this man, and I am pleased to know that my money, given to the church, then passed on to Snr Pastor, has meant that I share in the reward of people in India, South America, the Eastern Bloc, Africa, who have responded to the gospel. I am going to share in this reward when I get to heaven, when BILLIONS of the silly paper we cling to as valuable right now will be burned forever, and the senseless witch hunt that seems so all consuming today becomes not even a memory to us.
The real reason we are chasing shadows is because we are not fulfilling the great commission. I so long to see the day that I see as much energy put into missions within Calvary, as I do for the vilification of SP
Lastly, the fixation on the $$$ shows what is in the heart of these people. A cheque for a million dollars can be burned to no ones ill affect. Another is easy to write. But striking and ripping someone to shreds with the angry whip of slander and malicious gossip DAMAGES an eternal being. Someone created by the hand of God and in his image. I wish not to share in the judgement that may come upon those that do this.
I trust they are fully aware of the peril to their own walk that this is, as God will judge you. Despise Snr pastor of any pleasure from life? God will judge you by the same measure. Woe to you with mutual funds, the holiday in Europe, the new car. You have done this while millions trot to hell, and you dare try to trip up and stop the ministry of someone trying to save them!?!
This is where deception is so fearfully scary.
To: Anonymous/Weng
Thanx for chasing away more and more members away from the church. No wonder Calvary’s attendance has been stagnant for so many years and is probably even on a reducing trend if not for a handful of newcomers. The question is, why should members be forced to leave the church? Does the church belong to the pastors and the church staff? Simply put, no. I certainly hope you are not an existing leader of the church, otherwise it doesn’t show much about your shepherding skills.
Rest assured tat Christ’s name and the gospel has never been compromised or damaged thru this. I guess you are both afraid that Senior Pastor’s name has been compromised perhaps? If he is innocent, proof it. (Independent inquiry findings are only truly independent if ALL information of the accounts has been given to them to check. But has it? Nope. So the findings are nothing but tainted. ) So unless you are telling me that the gospel = Senior Pastor, I do not agree with your comments. No one is indispensable, especially not him. We do not need a Senior pastor who loves himself more than he loves God’s people. But I do agree that it is a sad, sad day for us…when it is so obvious that there are things not being done rightly in the church but that there are still people supporting him blindly. Truly a sad day.
Anonymous/weng,
I believe God's high calling is for pastors to be SHEPHERDS of His sheep, and not to be CEOs! But then again, there are good shepherds, who truly care for the sheep; and there are BAD shepherds who make use of the sheep for their own selfish gain! No need to ask which category S.P. belongs to..!
Let me tell you all a true story. S.P. was invited to give an eulogy at the death of a 'friend who was his loyal & faithful supporter' (from another church). He accepted the invitation - it was a gathering of V.I.P.'s, rich Christians, professional people (not Calvarites). Guess what? throughout the whole eulogy, S.P. was talking about how the 'dearly departed loyal supporter' gave him a generous gift of RM200,000/- for his ministry! There was not any mention of God, nor of the dearly departed's godly character & love for God! No scriptural exhortation, just a lot of hot air about money, money, AND money for his ministry, his ministry..AND his personal ministry!
After the funeral, the family went out to have a meal together & they discussed about how disappointed they were with S.P. They had expected some godly exhortation & comfort from this famous 'man of God' but all he talked about was the money the deceased man had given to him!
In the end, that whole family came to one conclusion - this S.P. is not the godly man that they thought he was! This S.P. is a CON-MAN!
To anonymous,
Friend. Do you see what I mean? I can't afford to stand this blog anymore. Not because I fear the bashing from the TT supporters, but I fear the wrath of God to even participate anything here.
To Calvary Today creator,
Are all these comments of bitterness, anger, un-Christlike from the readers was within your calculation & expectation when you create this blog for? Of course, all these wrathful comments has nothing to do you or the TT members. These comments does not represent what TT members believes in. This blog is to share Godly updates happens in CC? All readers please refrain from using hateful, malicious or vulgar words? Always be respectful of one another? This blog share the Truth of God that leads people to the "truth" in the expense of losing their testimony as a Christ like christian?
To the TT members,
Who are trying to kid?
It's kind of difficult to address the right person when you have too many anonymous around. Anyway...
To: anonymous
Your statement "If he is innocent, proof it." is rather disturbing for me. Do you mean that SP has definitely done something wrong i.e mismanagement of funds etc.? Like I've said before, if you're very sure he has, please lodge an official report with the police or aca. Otherwise, these issues will never end. I may sound harsh, but since you sounded very confident that SP is guilty, go ahead.
My belief is this, that everyone is innocent unless proven guilty.
God bless.
To Joe,
I agree with you. Talk is cheap. Don't throw the ball to SP to ask him to proof his own innocent.
Since the TT members are so confident, why not TT members lodge a poice report to proof him guilty.
To true story,
This is the most ridiculous feedback I read so far. My advise to you is to warn you to stop talking slanders to anyone without proof. If what you comments is right, can I say that a few of the TT leaders has 2nd wives outside their family?(Of course this is just an example)
Oh....this has gotta draw a response from me as it is even more stupid than everything else coming from the TTs. You guys have proven you don't think straight but this takes the cake.
Guity until proven innocent. What century are you in? This is a witch hunt tactic. Very medieval. - "Dip the witch! If she drowns she was innocent. If she survives she is a witch... so BURN her!!!"
This seems to be the heart of hatred prevalent in your band. KILL the man at all costs. Sorry if I have misread you all, but you have so hidden any love for this christian brother from the rest of us that I can't tell the difference between love and hate anymore. Just got to thinking...isn't it that if you hate someone you are guilty of murder? I don't know...just something I heard...but then again...murder is not halfway as bad as greed or (alleged) theft so you can all sleep as sinless babes.
As for a police report..you would have to be suicidally stupid. Let's see.
1. A lawyer and a forensic accountancy firm who SPECIALISE in this field said there is NO case.
2. You will jeopardise the tax free status currently enjoyed by the ENTIRE AG and maybe other churches. How would you like 30% of ALL AG money going to fund mosques in the future? We can make little plaques with all the Teh Tarik kids names on it for their foundation stones, being careful Snr Pastor isn't mentioned as we don't want to share the honours for this one! Not sure if you get a TanSri for doing this but maybe there will be some Datuks for you guys to squabble over, courtesy of Nik Aziz and PAS who will love you forever.
Friends, do the MATH. Senior pastor has an awesome wealth creation scheme right in front of him. He should: (a) Donate calvary church RM1,000,000, then take you all to court for defamation like you richly DESERVE. He will get TENS of millions out of you lot. Wake up and smell the coffee. If he was chasing money you guys would be his cash cow.
Test for you. The fact he hasn't done it means: (1) He cares for you. (2)he's guilty....I bet you chose 2. I know..prophetic.
Lets just consider if you dispose of him. What is your post PG scenario? How many of the current pastors would stay? I think ZERO.
Who would pastor it then? No AG pastor of sound mind would come near the place. Maybe thats what you deserve..a crazy man at the helm? or perhaps one of you think it fitting you lead the church. A merciless leader who whips the sheep...ok another recipe for disaster.
BTW at the next AGM if the majority of the church voted for you guys to be thrown out of membership, would you be Ok with that? After all, you would expect SP to leave if you could vote him out. Would you be so keen if we could throw you guys away as has-been christians who should retire from us? Come on, honest now. You can't have one rule for him and another for your selves. Unless you are a bunch of hypocrites.
Sorry gotta start slinging the mud back your way incase you run out of hate.
Yes, it is sad that all these mud-slinging by SP supporters, TT supporters and self proclaimed neutral parties are being seen by the whole world.
The amazing thing is that when I check around, I found out that neither SP or any pastor or any deacon has approached the TT group to try to stop all this blogging and find an amicable solution to resolve the conflict. They don't seem to care at what's happening. so the mud-slinging goes on....
Yes, all this mud-slinging is so depressing! But what is the root-cause of it? The covetuousness of S.P., & his refusal to return the RM.1.9 million!If he truly cares for the church, he will, out of meekness & humility agree to return the money....right? Then the furore will definitely die down, & things will return to normal for Calvary Church!
After all, with a pay packet of at least RM15,000/- PER MONTH plus all the perks, & his wife having almost the same-sized pay-packet, it should be enough for them to live a very comfortable life! Why did they reach their hands into the treasury bag & take the Lord's money for their own use & disguise it as his 'travelling money'?
Did any check to see his Swiss Bank accounts? He & his wife & son have already made a few trips to Switzerland recently...I dare you to check this out!
I am glad SS brought out something I always wanted to say:
“Yes, it is sad that all these mud-slinging by SP supporters, TT supporters and self proclaimed neutral parties are being seen by the whole world.
The amazing thing is that when I check around, I found out that neither SP or any pastor or any deacon has approached the TT group to try to stop all this blogging and find an amicable solution to resolve the conflict. They don't seem to care at what's happening. so the mud-slinging goes on....”
Has anyone seeing and replying to this blog ever thought of this:
1) SP being in the centre of the controversy, our shepherd, who has a higher calling and knows he should lead us – HAS NOT COME OUT AND NIP THE TROUBLE IN THE BUD AND EXPLAINED EVERYTHING.
2) Right at the start when SP sensed something was wrong, should he not being our spiritual leader meet the “truth seeking” group and his Deacons and sort things out. If what SP perceived is not wrong, should he not for the sake of peace and for Christian love, do something about it?
3) The so called “illegal” meetings outside the church, this blog and all the slander being posted would and should not have happened at all.
4) All those who posted their remarks on the blog should show love for each other – pro or against SP.
5) The person who advocates people to go to another church (naming some) because they could not be spiritually fed in Calvary should not have suggested that. Fancy driving sheep out of the fold. Instead of checking and putting things right – why were they not fed spiritually but rather an easy way is chosen – GET OUT! This would never be our Good Shephard’s way as He left the 99 to seek the one that is lost. Imagine a child in a family who rebelled against the father as she is not happy with what the father is doing with certain things. Would the father not talk to his daughter first and if everything fails, would he the father ask his daughter to get out of the home??
SO WHEN IS SOMEONE GOING TO PERSUADE OUR PASTOR TO START COMING OUT OF HIS SHELL AND DO HEALING, FORGIVENESS AND RECONCILIATION AND SAVE OUR CHURCH.
If changes need to be made – make them!! Let us not wait until God comes down in judgment as He is the one that can see the motives of every heart.
If the administrator wishes to put this as a main item instead of a comment, please feel free to do so.
I pray that God will help everyone to think right and resolve things SOON!
Chi Kee,
You are missing the most important point again by bringing us 1 big round of complains again.
If only our SP & Deacons do this or do that; If only they don't do this or that. It is obvious that your reactions depends on whether what others people do or don't do. Peoples actions & our actions do leaves marks & consequences to people around us, but we should anchor ourself in Christ firmly & our reaction ought to be Chistlike & Biblical. We should be responsible enogh to act carefully despite of what happen around us.
Let say SP & deacons stay put & did not do what TT expect them to do, does that permit TT to complain in bitterness & slandering in anger.
It is so obvious that TT members just want to make noises of complains & accusation. Until now, not a single TT member daring enough to address in the issue of writing malicious words here.
Calvary Today should come out to say something about this. All TT members please for once, please answer my questions directly. Forget about all the SP & deacons.
Can you tell me that the TT has never been using vulgar & malicious word toward God's annointed?
weng, I find it quite humourous in that you keep addressing SP as 'God's anointed'. Fyi, only cults keep using that reasoning to stop ppl from daring to question their leaders. I hope you will stop worshipping SP and treating him like a god.
Dear Weng,
What we want to say, we already said in all our Updates and you know who wrote those Updates by name. We also arranged for Meetings at KBU college for you to meet us personally. We came out in the open and we wrote openly. At the AGM & EGM, we had to identify ourselves before we could speak. So we are fully aware of what we said and did not say.
Many other people have also said alot of things, under disguise. Do you think that it is possible that there may be imposters disguising as TT members? Like there is a famous phrase that goes like this, "Sound like me, looks like mine, may even smell like mine but I am not sure if it is mine." Please do not give us credit for what other people have said.
This blog is for people like yourself to express your views and possibly frustrations even, on matters that we raise as the main post. Now, the main postings are our opinion and our message and our words as TT members. It is what we have done or written. It is our Update to those who are interested in our pursuit to follow along with us and to be in the know, in other words. We do not want people to be speculating on what we will do next.
So, we ask you to please specify the exact words that you refer to as "vulgar & malicious". If we really have said it, then we will not hesitate to apologise. But before we can apologise, we must know what we said WRONG.
Thank you readers out there for your encouraging comments which we do appreciate very much.
Of course, we cannot say we enjoy reading the not so nice ones. However, we appreciate your comments too. But please do not expect us to "bash" you like someone said we would. We focus on writing issues for the blog, not to make comments on our own writings, unless you specifically address a question to us.
When we decided to work as a Team, one thing that we have learnt along the way is - TO AGREE TO DISAGREE.
I hope all readers alike will adopt this. God bless.
To anonymous,
After reading your statement, can't help but to feel your immature & judgemental state of your mind. God place our SP in position of SP in CC & only God can move him if it's His will. It is not us to decide whether he should be removed.
Thru out the Old Testaments, those were the annointed Kings & Priest that were ordained by God, ought to be respected. Even though some annointed Kings or Priest who fall short before God & lost the Presence & favor of God ought not to be touched. Not that the people worship or respect blindly to those Kings & Priest, it is because the people respect & honor God's decision to annoint them even once they were the annointed of God. In real life, if my boss hired a Personal Assistant to working for him. I have no right to fire my boss' PA even though the PA are a lousy worker. Only my boss himself can fire his own PA. If I do fire my boss PA, don't you think it is disrespect to under cut my boss decision?
Those whom God has anointed & ordained, we ought to respect God's will & decision. If those who under cut God by disobey this command, they are simply stating that God made a mistake by anointed a wrong person, & those people also don't believe that God has the ability to dicipline & save the Fallen anointed one. That why some people began to take things into their own hands.
To everyone who is reading. Accusing, disrespecting & judging God's anointed is a very serious matters. May God bless you & open your eyes to see this.
lam, thanks for calling me immature.I'm quite suprised that 'mature' ppl like yrself, after listening to all that has happened on CIM, Cared and the extended ministries, still find reason to believe that SP shud not be touched as he is 'God's anointed' one. even younger ppl will be able to know tat something is definitely not right here.
So, are you saying we all should ignore what the Bible taught us. We only need to respect "God's anointed who fit our bill? Those God has ordained we find unfit is to be removed with our own discernment & judgement? If that is what you insist, I respect your decision. Please share with me an example in Bible to help me see you reasoning. Pardon me that I don't share the same conviction as you.
Ezekiel 34
Irresponsible Shepherds
1 And the word of the LORD came to me, saying, 2 “Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel, prophesy and say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord GOD to the shepherds: “Woe to the shepherds of Israel who feed themselves! Should not the shepherds feed the flocks? 3 You eat the fat and clothe yourselves with the wool; you slaughter the fatlings, but you do not feed the flock. 4 The weak you have not strengthened, nor have you healed those who were sick, nor bound up the broken, nor brought back what was driven away, nor sought what was lost; but with force and cruelty you have ruled them. 5 So they were scattered because there was no shepherd; and they became food for all the beasts of the field when they were scattered. 6 My sheep wandered through all the mountains, and on every high hill; yes, My flock was scattered over the whole face of the earth, and no one was seeking or searching for them.”
7 ‘Therefore, you shepherds, hear the word of the LORD: 8 “As I live,” says the Lord GOD, “surely because My flock became a prey, and My flock became food for every beast of the field, because there was no shepherd, nor did My shepherds search for My flock, but the shepherds fed themselves and did not feed My flock”— 9 therefore, O shepherds, hear the word of the LORD! 10 Thus says the Lord GOD: “Behold, I am against the shepherds, and I will require My flock at their hand; I will cause them to cease feeding the sheep, and the shepherds shall feed themselves no more; for I will deliver My flock from their mouths, that they may no longer be food for them.”
WENG and LAM.. and others in their position
I am neither a member of TT or Calvary Church. From an outsider's point of view, i am really surprised at your immaturity and blindness towards what is happening.
Titus tells us to 'rebuke those who are going the wrong way sharply,m so that they WILL BE SOUND IN THE FAITH.'
SP is not the only pastor of a BIG CHURCH who has yielded to the temptation of wealth.
A well known pastor in a BIg church in London has also succumbed to it and he was stopped by his church, who united in their decision to help their pastor go the right way.
He has since repented of his wrongs and publicly apologised to the church.
There is nothing to support SP's innocence and everything shows his hidden agenda.
From what i read of TT group's notes, this is NOT done to persecute SP but done in LOve. Wouldn't YOU stop your children, friend, loved one if they were heading towards a deadly cliff?
To tansili,
Beautiful scripture from the book of Ezekiel. It describe the Irresponsible shepherds who failed to feed the sheeps. The consequence is the woe of the Lord will come to te irresponsible shepherds, Diclared by the Lord. God will remove him in His own time & own way. Does God command the sheep to attack the irrespnsible shepherd? No, because God is the sheep's refuge, our refuge. Acting on behalf of God only show that the person do not trust God fully. Only God can judge & discipline cause He is the only Person who knows all things, and He is the righteous God. Using this scripture to justify your way out to judge & remove any single person only show that you have twisted the Word of God to fit into your own desire.
To keeping you eyes on Jesus,
I like your nick name, it reminded to to fix my eyes on Jesus. There are many way of correcting a member in Christ. Suppose a Bro. in Christ has some secret sin in his life & the leaders/Pastor found out about it. And it is the duty of someone who is mature in Christ to correct or rebuke him directly. If the Bro. who sin does not repent, the leader should continue to corect & pray for him with love. If it still failed. The leader should not spread & expose it to the public of the Bro. sinful life, cause it will make him even harder to repent. That is what happens here. Would you be comfortable that people set up a blog to discuss your secret sin? Put yourself in this shoes, will you be happy people spread the message that you had a certain issue with honesty, secret sin or habitual sins? If you honestly said it is total alright & Biblical. I'll keep quite & respect your view.
It is up to our Righteous God to judge. It is up to the mature in Christ to correct & direct the weak with God's loving principle. Can you confident say that all the people who write their comments here & wants to correct SP is mature? All things nasty thing being discussed here is based on God's loving principle? If you do think like that, I shall keep quite & respect your view. I leave it to God to judge, I'm in no position to say you are definitely wrong.
Dear maverick, sick with your language, are you de one who sent the warning letter before EGM ? read your letter( though i am tempted to use same remark like yours in your comment abt de tt--stupid)..kkwong said, his opinion is as good as de document he received only.. sure no case? how u explain money from WAGRA transfer to CARE n CARED? do you care to explain WAGRA? money received from any AOGs ,should be received and sent to WAGRA not here..
maverick, may God have mercy on you. at least some of the other supporters of SP and neutrals have the decency to use non-crude words in their comments but the words u have put down in yr comment just shows your heart and character.
and to ling, how do you know what true story said was slander? can it be slander if it is a true story heard from the actual ppl who experienced it? Or is it only slander because it is talking negatively about SP? I also heard that story myself and it is definitely not slander as it is a real incident.yes,it is sad to hear such a thing but it is a true story.
I sense alot of bitterness and hatred form Maverick's blog on 22 Sept.
Dear Anonymous (the one who questioned whether playing an instrument is more important to me than growing in Christ and who asked me to leave the church),
I have been serving the Lord via music since I was in my teens, and like the rest of my ex-fellow musicians, I do so because I love Him and want to please Him and use the talents (however few they may be) which God has given me to serve Him.
After the 1st AGM and upon finding out more about what is really happening in the Church (yes, I have been attending this church for nearly 3 decades but have been oblivious to the undercurrents that have been brewing for quite some time), I kept telling myself that this should not affect my service to the Lord since I am serving God and not men. Thus, I still kept on serving as a musician as I was hopeful that God will work a miracle for our church.
But to my dismay, this was not the case and from the shocking announcement made by the BOD on that fateful Sunday morning to the constant condemnations of the TT crew through SP’s sermons, this further increased my frustration on how things were being handled by the leadership. The last straw was of course the night of the EGM as explained in my letter and from then onwards, I knew that I could no longer serve joyfully under the current leadership. This is why I resigned as a musician. Playing the instrument is definitely not as important as my walk with the Lord, so I hope you will not start judging other Christians’ relationship with God.
As for asking me to leave the church, I can tell you honestly that I will leave when God tells me to leave, and not when men tell me to. But thank you for your suggestions on the few churches to go to like DUMC, SIB and RLC. I have been to these churches before and have been very blessed by the humility of their pastors, the spiritual food received from their preachings as well as the strong presence of God during their services. By God’s grace, I will also continue serving Him through music elsewhere; when the time is right.
Not fair brought up issue of WAGRA. Someone ask abt the RM400K funds from WAGRA that was transferred to Cared/CIM during the EGM. SP's answer was that when our National WAGRA closed, the balance money was transferred to AOG and then to Cared/CIM. Recently was told that one TT member wrote to International WAGRA and they replied there is no such thing as a national WAGRA. All donations are chanelled from the local AOG directly to the International WAGRA. Does this mean SP told a LIE?? When he step down as International WAGRA president, he transferred the RM400k meant for WAGRA to Cared/CIM(deacon Edward said it was collected from our Christmas stadium presentations for WAGRA). Interesting what the International WAGRA will say when they find out that they lost RM400k from their accounts.
What a con-man!
Just read mavericks comments...obviously he is pretty hurt by seeing the church divided...and friends it is divided
But re-reading it...he did make some very good points i fear we ignore at our peril
ANONYMOUS
somehow when i read some of these comments, especially with "anonymous" seemed to instil 'FEAR ' to the readers. Look..enough of fear tactics, "for God so love the world that, He gave His only beggoten Son that whosoever believe in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life."Jn 3:16
It is worthy for us to fight for the cause of Christ,but not worthy to fight for the cause of a man. I dont think the tt's mission is to fight for a man, dont you think so? i came to know Christ because of His "LOVES".
Dear Lam, you wrote:
Suppose a Bro. in Christ has some secret sin in his life & the leaders/Pastor found out about it. And it is the duty of someone who is mature in Christ to correct or rebuke him directly.
I think SP will "fry sotong" if that bro.is working in church.
If he attends church SP will laid hands and rebuke. SP has done wrong and many attempts to reconcile but not fruitful. That is why the rebuke is done openly.
Dear Lam, you said:
Acting on behalf of God only show that the person do not trust God fully.
May I ask:
1)did David act on behalf of God when he killed Goliath?
2)did Moses act on behalf of God when the Israelites worshipped the calf. etc..etc
You MUST thank God that He uses men and women to act on His behalf. If He did not, none of us will be here.
OUR GOD IS HOLY
Dear Administrator
A thousand apologies
Francis,
I'm totally agree with you. Who say God's anointed can't be touched. Especially those who disobey God. Those who say that are really old fashion/thinking Christian. Let us act on God's behalf. Let's bring out more juicy story of the bad deeds of SP & deacons. The more bad things I hear what they have done wrongly. The more I feel the urge to expose them under the sun.
I support the TT member's view to find out the truth. Lets make some noises that scares SP & deacons of our existence. We uphold the truth by acting on behalf of God. I love this blog. In this blog I could let out all my discontentment with our church leadership.
I love all the bad story of SP, Deacons, & etc. I believe it is 100% true. To be honest, let skip the process of confronting SP & deacons of their sins. Let us jump straight to be God's tool to bring judgment & condemnation. The Bible say that God's judgment is hardest to bear, let give them some taste of hell.
To:Act on behalf of god
I’m wondering if you are actually KL Boy since you sound like him. Anyway, let’s not be sarcastic abt all that is happening. If you want to be sarcastic, I hope you will first reveal yr identity to the readers first before going on with what you are doing. Those who are really genuinely supporting the TT Group DO NOT want SP or deacons to taste hell, so my suspicions are that you are just trying to make the TT Group look bad with your comments. Let’s be mature about this as I’m sure you are an adult.
Francis,
Yes, you're absolutely right. If God does not use people, sometimes ordinary ones, to act on His behalf, many of us including SP & BOD, will be long gone..like "Simple Housewife" always says.. "sudah fry sotonglah" because we fail Him so very often.
God in His mercy allows His will to be carried out IN and THROUGH believers, sometimes even non-believers..as Scriptures tell us. Hence, in letting God be God, He still uses people to achieve His will. It DOES NOT mean that we sit back and wait for Him to "physically remove people, like SP, from their ivory towers". God uses people, very often ordinary people. We must be ever ready to be His vessels, and not run away like Jonah, and let God save the world Himself.
In short, I'm glad God still uses people ...those who are great, those who think they are great, ordinary people, etc, etc...to achieve His plan, otherwise "teruklah..sudah fry sotolonglah".
He is and will always be God, even if he chooses to use ordinary folk like TT group to fulfil His plan. So to those who still maintain with folded arms "let God be God', think again.
Hello raymond y,
Simple Housewife did not say "sudah fry sotonglah". You don't know this housewife very well obviously. This one don't cook lah.
Good, bad, ugly said that. I'm correcting this on record becoz soon many of my friends will be asking me to cook for them after reading your comment.
Anyway, no offence taken. I find this amusing and it lightens my heart. "A merry heart doeth good like medicine." Thanks.
WOW, Raymond Yong is reading and commentin on this blog too. Must be under instruction.
YTF,
Better don't reveal Raymond Y's identity, otherwise he will "be fried sotonglah". Who else, by his masterlah, the one he follows everywhere...including you know wherelah!!! LOL.
Hi Simple Housewife,
Fry sotong is very simple. Make sure the situation is very HOT, prepare your kuali, bathe (or rather wash) the sotong, throw it into kuali, and when it's betul-betul fried, throw it to the cat. This is fry sotong, Malaysian-style.
Hi fellow bloggers (including independents)
I smell something fishy...Raymond Yong is monitoring this blog for SP, just like he did for him in the witch-hunt on "opposition" Communion Servers.
Be careful. SP's watching all of us...through RY's eyes!!! Take cover.
Fly sotong velly nice to eat, lah! Are you all planning another big makan, ah?
Hi, I'm NOT Raymond Yong, SP's sidekick. I'm Raymond Y (yin, yang, whatever you want) but I can't really reveal my true identity or else I'll be fried sotong too. I'm neutral...I'm on God's side who is always on the side of those who seek the truth..you know what I mean. God bless the TT group.
To "Hungry",
What big makan? Aren't u going for CC 40th Anniversary Dinner next month (can't remember when as I'm not going). I hear they may serve fried sotong, SP-style (not Senior Pastor but Sungei Petani in Kedah), but the menu is not finalised by Raymond Yong who has been instructed by SP to head food-tasting committee. Ask Raymond Yong on Sunday.
To ytf, raymond yong's friend and take-cover man.
Do you think raymond y is Pastor Raymond Yong??? You must be kidding. If Pastor Raymong Yong is really monitoring this blog for SP as what take-cover man said, would he be so naive and silly to blog with an identity "raymond y"? He could've just write anonymous.
Besides, do you think he could write this: "Hence, in letting God be God, He still uses people to achieve His will. It DOES NOT mean that we sit back and wait for Him to "physically remove people, like SP, from their ivory towers". God uses people, very often ordinary people. We must be ever ready to be His vessels, and not run away like Jonah, and let God save the world Himself."
God bless.
Joe, YTF, etc...
I've already said I'm NOT Pastor Raymond Yong. I'm just a plain Raymond Y. Full stop. Let us not lose focus...we're pursuing the truth right, not Pastor Raymond Yong. When SP goes, I think he'll also go..he reminds me of the song "I'll follow him".
Thanks raymond y. Just wanted to stress the point that we should not assume things. Otherwise, the next romour we would hear is that Pastor Raymond Yong is blogging and is the "fbi' or "kgb" for SP.
God bless.
Dear Moderator,
Remember I asked whether anyone has seen or review the 2 reports and recommendations from the lawyer and the auditor? You replied and said none so far? I said I would write in officially to request for a review of the reports?
Just want to inform you and the rest that the BOD accepted my request and I'm supposed to call up Pastor Peter to set the time and date for the review. For the record, my request was granted less than 24 hours!
I've yet to call Pastor Peter as I was away this whole week. Will call him next week.
God bless.
to readers
good laugh...really..those not happy, very sad, disturb...do tune in to calvarytoday, looks like God allow His children to rejoice in times of sorrow...praise the Lord for those with sense of humour...
Praise the Lord, indeed "a merry heart doeth good like medicine". I laughed till I cried. Good one you guys.
But have to stop here. Not good to laugh at other people's expense. BTW, Pas. Raymond Yong is a very good friend of ours - some 20 over years. That's why I know that this Raymond y is not him.
To Joe - A simple advise to you. Bring one or two more persons with you to see the reports. You must give the names to Pas. Peter when you call him. Curtesy.
Dear Raymond Yong's good friend,
Solly, lah, I no go to CC 40th Anniversally, 'cos not invited! No money also to pay RM85/- 'cos decided to donate money to A/G Widowcare fund.
I WAS HOPING TT CREW WILL GIVE A BIG FLY SOTONG MAKAN FOR SUPPORTERS! (trying to scrounge free fly sotong since you all talking about fly sotong & throwing it to the cat! What a waste of good food!)
Ok, Raymond Y is not who we think he is. But still be careful. Dont know what they are up to. So quiet.
To simple housewife - Thank you very much for your advice.
To hungry - All CC members/worshipers are invited for the dinner. Announcements were made mah... But of course we've got to pay the RM85 loh...
I guess many of us regular readers here will not be going for the dinner...so for those who go, do update us on whether the fried sotong is yummy or not
hello--fry sotong ahh--'chow yau yee' in cantonese. all those kena
'chow yau yee'--how are you feeling?
To Chow Yau Yee,
In God's Majesty Service, there's no "chow yau yee" or fried sotong. God's appointment is perpetual service, as long as we abide in Him. Halleluyah!!!
In SP's eyes, he can continue to fry sotong (maybe he's even afraid of his own shadow) but he definitely can't stop us from serving the King of kings, and the Prince (no pun intended) of Peace.
We will serve the King (not a prince)today and forever. Amen.
Hi "Chow Yau Yee" and "In God's Majesty Service",
Greetings in His blessed name!
Yes, we're the Royal Army of God serving Him and Him only. No man, not even a prince, can court-martial us. We will always serve Him. There's not sacking by Him... we only choose to sack (or if you will, fry sotong or chow yau yee) ourselves when we stop walking in His will.
Rejoice in Him, the General of our souls, who is still enlisting new recruits for His Royal Army.
Why crucify Raymond yoong? surely the witch hunt he did was under instruction except he was deserted when he needed support.
Maybe RY can(say ) sing this " i did it my way" which is never the culture of CC
Careful who you are doing work for. You have this kind of boss RY i advice you to do some self soul search.
in the underground world the rule is ,the leader always stand by his "mah chai" ask Robert Lim.
A chinese saying goes this way" before your waloop the dog make sure you know who the owner is. i think this dog have no owner.
to qualify i am not a TT member but a voting member for many years. i am at a back sliding state because of the sad state of affair of the church. i have to remain undercover because i may be witch hunt . u know lah . i am one of those to scare to speak up but thank to this blog .
i know my illistration is very crude but i just getting the message across . No need to thank me.
PS believe me the world is flat.just because everyone belive it does not mean it is true.only one man believe it and he was thrown out of church.
My hats off to those who champion the truth on many ocassion is the minority.
Brader Mad,
It's Raymond Yong, not Yoong lah, otherwise he will be mad with you that you change his surname without his permission.
Anyway, in The Star Metro section last Friday, the reporter quoted "Raymond Wong" instead of Mr Yong although in the next mention, he was Mr Yong again. Maybe he was also under cover when he spoke to The Star reporter.
Hi, now I'm also confused. Is it Yong, Wong or Yoong? Maybe I'm getting old-lah. LOL.
Nevermind Yong, Wong or Yoong la, we all know who is that can already. Last time he was only a care taker in cc, but ever since he wear that monkey suit he became like his boss throwing his weight around everyehere. He is a big time "leg carrier".
Dea tt fan,
He is still a caretaker, the only difference is that he's no longer taking care of the physical church amenities, but taking care of SP's physical needs.
Stop it you guys! Did you not heed what the administrator of Calvary Today had stated - Do not drag other people into this saga. Shame on you.
Please leave Raymong Yong out of this.
Dear All who blog,
After following this blog for the past month or so, I feel that I must repeat my plea to all.
Please write with love, not with anger, not with the aim to strike out just because the words of another struck a discord in you. If you do what another did to you, would that not be "an eye for an eye"?
When you write, please write to tackle and address the issues at hand.
Write if you must to express your thoughts, your feelings but do not write to attack any particular person or make fun of another, even if there is a "hint of poking fun" - please exercise restraint and leave it out.
Remember, at the other end of the words that you say - is a living, breathing human soul for whom Christ did die for. So, like Saul was asked by Jesus, while on the road of Damascus - "Why do you persecute me?" I think we all know the answer.
Write with love and one good way is to picture yourself on the receiving end of the words you are saying. Would you want to receive what you are dishing out to others? The yardstick that should be appropriately used here is - do not to others what you want not others to do to you.
Please write without the need to provoke - "words like - be prepared to be bashed by the TT Group or .." - are uncalled for because they invite provocation that would otherwise not be there in the first place. We are not here to fight or quarrel with each other. Are we not here for truth, transparency and accountability? Let's remember why we are blogging in the first place.
Last but not least, please write remembering the "lambs" in the church. Those who are young in age, heart, soul, spirit and mind. Those who have not sufficient maturity to discern what is just expression of frustration, what is just "poking at fun" and what is the issue.
I am sorry if what I have written offends anyone. The reason I have to write this is because I have read many comments, especially the mud-slinging.
As I read and prayed, a deep sadness came over me. It is like one of my pastor friends say - when sheep fight ugly, the lambs end up hurt.
So to all who blog here, please remember the "lambs" and the sheep still outside the compound.
God bless
Diana
Wow,I dont know who this Diana is.'
I think she makes a great friend and mother. She exhibits tremendous amount of patience. One of the fruits of the Spirit.
Good advice.
Diana ,
words well said.thanks for your advice will keep that in mind. no offend to anyone just my illustration is crude.
i apologise if it hurts anyone with my words.
to the rest of us
true... think of the those that is on the receiving end...... how does those who were witch hunted feels because they want to have an opportunity to speak up.
`Serving so many years. What a way to thank them.
I belive they also human and Jesus die for them too.
i am quite focus on the purpose of the blog but just my approach is quite uncoventional.
My apology to you Raymond ...... for spelling your name wrongly.
chinese saying " can eat salt fish can take the thrist."
Yes, I agree totally with YTF. Diana's advice is very sound. We must listen to her and always have the lamb in mind when we blog. We must do it responsibly.
God bless.
I may agree with Diana but it doesnt mean I agree with what is happenging to the church. We should have a new beginning and get rid of all cob webs and skeletons in the church.
Actually cannot tahan how the money in the church is moved about, spent or transferred.
Yes, I also beh tahan but be patient. In God's time, we who love His church will surely triumph. Amen.
I also betul-betul tak tahan, but we must tahan for God's glory to shine through CC again. It won't be long.
Dear Brothers and Sisters,
We just left the blog alone for the week end and lo so many comments. Some good, some bad...really bad. Thanks to Diana for keeping things in order.
We noticed that many of you have used this blog to:-
- Crack jokes. That's good (for you alone) but keep to general statements and not hitting at specific person, esp. those not involved in this saga.
- Release tension & complain collection center. Some one suggested we rename as, Cyber Therapy. Good idea. Maybe the church should start a Cyber counselling minisry. We can accommodate this here but we are not qualified to give counselling and advise.
- Catching up with far away kids and friends. It is always great to say hello to long lost friends like Pas. Kelvin, Cindy Leng, RK from Aust. Hi there.
- Scolding people. Sorry that many of you innocent CC members have gotten a shelling because of blogging in this blog. Like someone said, you log in at your own risk.
- Getting informed. Of course, it would be information that the TT members want you to know. To Church staff and representatives,you cannot say that we are one sided on this. This blog was started to inform members of what we know, what we found out, what we have done, what we are pursuing and what we will do next.
So have fun for another 2 days. Come October, we hope to redirect this blog back to the beginning -What next, after the EGM?
Dear lam,
you said:
In real life, if my boss hired a Personal Assistant to working for him. I have no right to fire my boss' PA even though the PA are a lousy worker. Only my boss himself can fire his own PA. If I do fire my boss PA, don't you think it is disrespect to under cut my boss decision?
My questions:
1)Will you work for a Tangan Panjang?
2)If you do, then are you consider an accomplice?
3)Will you respect a Tangan Panjang?
What is "tangan panjang"? I attended international school all my life. My apologies, but please clarify for the benefit of those who are not too well-versed with BM. Thanks.
"tangan panjang" means person having the habit of stealing; in short - thief.
Thanks tt fan. That's serious. Must pray harder in that case.
Dear lam,
You said:
I shall keep quite & respect your view. (Twice)
So it looks like you have indeed kept quiet and respected our views here.
Heap,Heap,Hurray!!!!!
Heap,Heap,Hurray!!!!!
Heap,Heap,Hurray!!!!!
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