Friday, September 5, 2008

4th Update to CC Members (10.06.08)

Dear Calvarites,

On behalf of our group of teh tarik members, we wish to put on record our appreciation of your kind words of encouragement and support which we have received from many of you via email as well as personally. Many of you have boldly approached us at different times before and after church services to thank us and encourage us in our struggle to bring about greater transparency and accountability in our beloved church and leadership.

We acknowledge that it has not been easy to convince our leaders of the need to change for the greater good of our church. You can see for yourselves how the pulpit is misused to continously whacked the "opposition" camp. Yesterday's sermon at DH during the 2nd service was a good example. The Senior Pastor, during his sermon on kings and priests, told the congregation to the effect that whoever says he is preaching prosperity gospel, should go and jump into the lake. This is one of the most shocking statements we never imagined can come from his mouth. Who can ever believe that our Senior Pastor is capable of saying such a vicious, vindictive, hateful comment to his sheep. Of course, in Luke 6:45, the Bible says that out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks. So by making that condemning statement, we can clearly see what is in his heart which is certainly not good things. He also made a remark that all men are liars which is not totally wrong but we hope he realises that he is also included in that category.

We also wish to address allegations that we are the enemies who are trying to break up our church. On the contrary, if you had witnessed the way the recent AGM was conducted, the witch-hunt that took place thereafter, the lies the 'supporters" of the leadership are now spreading, the unholy remarks from the pulpit like the one mentioned above, you can easily make your own judgment as to who the real enemy of our church is, who is causing a division in our church.

By now, you would have heard of Senior Pastor's "Tan Sri" award. One member, on hearing the news, sms me that "it sucks". While some of you may agree that "it sucks", you must also remember that the higher one climbs, the harder the fall. We heard about his getting the award a few weeks ago and we could have easily stop it then but we were not sure whether it was the right thing to do. On hindsight, perhaps we should have stopped it but let the past be the past. May God forgive us if we have failed.

Anyway, the purpose of today's email is to update you on what transpired at last Saturday's meeting between the Board of Deacons, Pastor Peter and four of us. It was a three and a half hour meeting. We brought out many issues that our church is facing today which are threatening to break up our church. A copy of our letter to the deacons on the current state of our church is attached herewith.

One deacon remarked that we should let God be God. We (or at least I was) were dumb-struck by this remark. Doesn't that deacon realised that if the pastors and deacons have let God be God all these years, our church would not be in this troubled state now. If they have let God be God and not allowed God to be overshadowed by someone or something, we would now be a true fountain-head church, vibrant, spirit-filled, growing and touching lives, not a dwindling, lifeless, dying church that is totally oblivious to the revival happening all around us. While we are pursuing the CCC vision, the churches out there are growing by leaps and bounds. We need to dig up the dirt that has blocked our fountain spout so that our water can flow again and begin bringing in the souls like we used to in our earlier years.

When will our pastors and deacons wake up and realise that God can also be talking to us, that we could be right. Anyway, how can they say we are wrong and deemed as enemies when all we asked for is that the leadership practice good stewardship, governance, accountability and transparency. These are virtues all Christians should strive for.

For your info, we set below the major or crucial issues which were discussed at the meeting and our proposals to resolve them:-

CALVARY INTERNATIONAL MINISTRIES (CIM)

We had earlier discovered, to our shock that for several years now, our Missions Dept has transferred RM200,000 a year to CIM from the faith promise pledges made by members. We told the deacons that this is an outright misappropriation of funds or CBT and an obvious conflict of interest. It is misappropriation because the members have never been informed of this. In all our faith promise budgets and accounts over the years, this contribution to SP's personal ministry has never been declared and members' approval has never been sought. It is a conflict because SP is the head of Missions Dept (as stated in the Missions Manual) and sole founder and owner of CIM.

We also informed the deacons that while SP and deacons proclaim CIM as a personal ministry of SP, the NECF deemed CIM as a part of Calvary Church. This is an obvious misrepresentation especially when it carries the "Calvary" name. It can easily lead other churches to believe that they are contributing to a ministry of Calvary Church when it is actually a personal ministry. We proposed that CIM be dissolved immediately and all balance funds be returned to Calvary Church.

CHURCH CONSTITUTION

We proposed various changes to the constitution concerning the position, tenure, authority, roles and responsibilities of the Senior Pastor (referring to the office, not the individual) and the appointment of deacons and Elders. We also pointed out a few possible breaches of the Church constitution relating to the appointment of associate pastors and assistant pastors. Our constitution does not provide for the positions or offices of assistant pastors, Senior Executive Pastor, Executive Pastor and Executive Administrator, all of which are filled by various individuals presently.

CALVARYLAND

We proposed that if the ownership of the property has indeed been transferred to Calvaryland as a separate entity, then an EGM must be convened to seek members' approval to ratify the transfer. We also proposed that the accounts of Calvaryland be consolidated into the main Church accounts, that a definitive plan for this project be presented to the members as it now appears to be a failure and that the person who came out with this vision seek the church for forgiveness for this debacle.

CALVARY CONVENTION CENTRE

We questioned whether this CCC project is a man's vision or God's vision. Many years ago, the leadership was convinced of God's vision to build a 5,000 seating church in Sri Hartamas which did not materalised. Then, they had a vision of a new sanctuary at our present Damansara Heights site using a horse-shoe design, which again was not approved by the authorities. Including Calvaryland, we have had three failed visions. Thus arose the question on the CCC project. Our contention is that a project which is approved based on a lie (we told the authorities that we are building a convention centre when it is actually a church), designed by a Freemason, proceeded without proper members' approval and where members are constantly told half-truths about the costs, cannot be in the will of God. If the CCC is the vision of God, He will surely open the gates of heaven and pour out His blessings. There will be no need to sell paper bricks and certainly, no need to appeal to members to fulfill their Leap of Faith pledges.

We requested this project be re-evaluated and an EGM be convened to get proper members' approval by secret ballot. This will allow the leadership to gauge the actual number of supporters for the CCC. What is happening now is that they are pushing ahead in the belief that the whole church is behind them when it is not so.

SENIOR PASTOR'S POSITION

We highlighted various examples of SP's unscriptural conduct and requested that the deacons advise him to retire in the best interest of the church and perhaps, go full time to fulfil God's calling upon his life to do world evangelism as revealed to us by one of the deacons. Alternatively, they may consider a proposal by Bro Wong Hong Meng for the setting up of an Independent Truth Committee to investigate all the allegations of wrong doing. This way, if SP is innocent, he will be cleared of all allegations and rumours which are going around. We emphasised that the deacons should take immediate action to address the above matters as the present state of affairs in our church is unhealthy and worrisome and could destroy our 47-year old church, if left unchecked.

Only the deacons have the mandate and authority to act to save what Dr Guynes (our church founder) started 47 years ago. We, the teh tarik members, can do nothing except be that mouth-piece for God and pray.

God bless,

KC, Karen & some Teh Tarik members

*****************************************************

ADDENDUM

PRESENT STATE OF CALVARY CHURCH
(This article by Bro KC was attached to the 4th Update to members)

There has been a growing discontent among the members over the past few years. What is happening in our church today did not spring forth overnight. The emotions which are riding high among the growing group of ‘unhappy’ members were not because they attended a ‘teh tarik’ session or swayed by a circulating juicy story.

The flurry of emails, allegations and rumours making its rounds in cyberspace
among members and also non-members are the expressions of frustrations residing deep in their hearts which are now gradually coming out.

For many years now, many members has felt a sense of ‘something wrong’ in our church, be it in the sermons preached from the pulpit, the way our pastors treat those serving in various ministries, the pride and arrogance seen in our Senior Pastor and Sister, the way they are served like gods rather than being the servant, their display of wealth and lavishness of their lifestyle, the rapid rise of the Guneratnam children and their spouses in the church hierarchy, the unfriendliness of the church staff, the unhappiness of those staff who have left, the dryness in our worship services, the almost non-existent words of prophesy, signs and miracles in our services that we used to see, the failure and closure of various ministries, the departure of many faithful and talented leaders and members to other churches, the gradual transformation of an charismatic, lively, tongue-speaking congregation into a solemn, quiet, ‘dead’ group of pew-sitters and countless other examples and personal experiences. Being Christian-like, everyone has kept their thoughts and feelings to themselves, not realizing that they are not alone in their thinking.

What then brought about this change of assertion and mindset which now threatens to cause a rift in our church and destroy a work started 47 years ago?

The introduction of the CCC was the first major pebble cast into the calm waters. The ripple caused by the pebble grew wider as the members were continuously, to put it bluntly, lied to or told half-truths about the costs of the CCC and the shoving down their throats of the extravagant design of the majestic monument that will, in the minds of the members, serve only to bring great glory to him, not Him. The push to proceed with the project despite not obtaining a legal valid approval from the members worsen the situation.

The second event that triggered the change in the member’s attitude was the political change in our country. The demand for transparency and good governance broke the stronghold of Barisan Nasional. The call for transparency and corporate governance has been slowly evolving in the corporate world and the world at large. The mentality of this new generation has changed. Transparency, accountability and governance are the keywords of today and our members are beginning to move with the trend. The members now realized that these keywords are the true definition of good Christian stewardship, a role they have previously taken lightly.

The third significant trigger was what transpired at the recent AGM and the ‘witch-hunt’ that took place immediately after the AGM. The conduct of Senior Pastor during the AGM and his open rebuke of the ‘teh tarik’ members did not go well with the members. The removal of leaders after the AGM again made matters worse. The leadership has tried to justify their actions but the members can no longer be fooled. They have not witnessed the forgiveness and love that the pastors preached about but only saw vengefulness in the leaders’ actions.

Presently, there is no one single ‘opposition’ camp. Instead, there are several different groups and individuals, all handling the situation in their own respective or personal ways. Some choose the soft approach by writing letters to the leadership, some stay in the cyberworld and speak their minds, some fast and pray while others are waiting to report to the authorities.

This present situation now calls for immediate action on the part of the Board of Deacons. Only the deacons can rectify and turn around the situation by addressing the issues and concerns raised by the members. The ball is now at the Deacons’ feet and time, unfortunately, is not on our side.

The BOD must accept that they have failed miserably in the discharge of their duties to ensure good stewardship of monies given by the members, good and proper governance of church matters, the welfare of the body of Christ and the spiritual well-being of the members.

SP and the BOD must take full responsibility for the mess our Church is in, the confusion and division they have caused, the hurt they have brought to the members.

25 comments:

pshn said...

KC, Karen & some teh tarik members. Keep up the good work. Its the wall of Jerico that you are dealing with. But the wall of Jerico came down. Not because of the wisdom and strength of the Israelite but because of the almighty God Himself. God usually takes a long while to act because He wants to give enough chance for repentance to take place. But when the sin has reached its fullness, His judgement will fall. Just hang in there!!!

Anonymous said...

Dear PSHNAH
I am so encouraged by your words for us.Surely the walls of Jericho came down because of the Mighty Hand of God.All we need to do is just walk around Jericho. It may take us a few more rounds, we are are rest assured that God is in control.
Our God is indeed a merciful, and full of patience. Praise the Lord.
Do continue to uphold us in prayer

pshn said...

Dear KC, Karen & some other teh tarik members:

I fully agree with your suggestions concerning the Constitution, Calvaryland, CCC SP's position.

However, all your suggestions will not see the light of day if you have to work through the present BOD. Samson's secret of power lay in the length of his hair. So the hair has to be snipped off.

The power of the church governance is structurally supposed to be the BODeacons. But that depends on who fills the positions. Nominees for election of the BOD is practically in the absolute control of the SP. The congregation should know by now that whoever they elect will invariably be pastor's men.

And the SP will only have those whom he can control and outmaneuvre. So though structurally, the BOD should have the power govenance, it is really SP lurking behind that is the real power.The BOD is allowed only to THINK they have the power.

So if you all desire the outcome you want the process of electing the BOD will have to be revamped to allow the congregation to elect a new BOD comprising good people.

Otherwise you simply cannot win!

pshn said...

Large empty churches are found all over Europe. The life of the church is in the people. If they are not cared for i.e. adequately pastored they will die spiritually and they will go away.... hence the empty churches.

Many carry the tittle "pastor" but they may not have any pastoral gifting at all. A pastor is generally fatherly, warm, kind and easily approachable.

SP does'nt even come close at being a pastor. He is an evangelistic preacher with administerial gifting BUT DEFINITELY NOT A PASTOR.

This is part of the reasons why CC is facing the present problems. It is a miracle that the symptoms did'nt surface earlier.

CC is struggling to survive spiritually. If things do not change for the better (spiritually) the people will die and you will have a big empty church (like in Europe)

If CCC is built by then, you will end up with a very, very big empty church.

CC NEEDS A REAL PASTOR!!

A spiritually declining, worldly church likes to develop mamoth church buildings to exalt man.

A spiritually vibrant one likes to develop people and exalt God.

Just answer the simple question: Whose name will be exalted when CCC is built? I am sure there is not doubt in any one mind that it is God. Right??

Unknown said...

Dear PSHNAH

We covet your prayers very much
Our architect for CCC is a Freemason.

pshn said...

Paul & Barnabas in Acts 15:39 - Their DISAGREEMENT WAS SO SHARP that they separated.

The teh tarik group forms about 50% of CC. Divide the assets equally and let each group continue the development of the church the way each group thinks is best.

Let all the pastors, ministerial workers and members who want to follow SP and his vision regarding CCC be free to do so.

At the moment the teh tarik group is a hindrance to SP and his followers. And SP and his people are equally a hinderance to the teh tarik group.

They will never ever agree with with the teh tarik group. NEVER!!

In the 1980s the Charismatic brethrens separated from the anti-charismatic Jalan Imbi church. They now run one of the largest church in the region - FGA.

So much of infighting is causeing much discouragement especially among the new christian and also the older members too. It is really just not worth it. Many are hurting. Many are leaving. Many are back-sliding. And it will get worse. Soon nobody will be left.

Go your separate ways, build a new church and feed "my sheep".

This way you may not get everything but you will get something to begin a new spiritual journey for CC. God bless.

Anonymous said...

Dear phsnah,

I surely did not expect you to give the advice to leave and start our new church and allow things to go on as they are.

SP will have another thanksgiving dinner if we all leave.

Anonymous said...

Dear phsnah,

Yes, I agree with YTF (is this really yeong tow foo?).

Leaving CC by splitting $$, assets, people and what not, is NOT the best solution. Not everything is as simple as the case of Paul and Barnabas. God works differently in different cases.

We need to stay and RIGHT the WRONG. We should never, never take the seemingly easy way out. We must take the road less travelled and I believe we will eventually achieve God's PURPOSE, not ours.

Anonymous said...

I was in CC before SP, so why should I leave?

You dont invite someone to your house and then leave, and just let him have your house.

Anonymous said...

Dear Not Paul and Barnabas, wow you are very creative. Yong Tau Foo?
Why didnt I think of that?

Maybe it was dinner time for you and you were hungry and thinking about food. Haha! Thats why you thought it was Yong Tau Foo.

Anonymous said...

Yes, I agree with ytf (Yang Tahu & Faham) that following pshnah's advice to split & leave will just be what SP is praying for us to do but don't worry since this is not in line with God's will, SP can pray till Kingdom come also we will stay at CC to be a thorn in his what's it.

I also agree with ytf (your true friend) that if we all leave, SP will have another thanksgiving dinner & guess what he will serve - Yong Tau Foo (ytf) as it is cheaper since he needs to keep the $$$$$ for his retirement.

SP obviously doesn't walk the talk about one should live in faith. Why does he need to secretly transfer funds of RM 1.9 million from CC to CIM? Is it because he has (as told by SP to BOD) withdrawn his EPF for Junior's house & SP now needs to rebuild his EPF savings?

Where is SP's faith? Even if he has diminished his EPF savings (as claimed by him), SP only need to look towards God who is his EPF (Ever Proving Father), as well as ours.

Anonymous said...

Hi pshnah,

You are obviously contradicting yourself.

In your first posting, you encouraged us to "just hang in there (at 12.23am on 14 Oct), then you said (at 3.31pm on 14 Oct) "Samson's secret of power lay in the length of his hair so the hair has to be snipped off", next (at 3.59pm on 14 Oct) you said "CC NEEDS A REAL PASTOR!!".

But finally (at 11.56pm on 14 Oct) you said "Go your separate ways, build a new church and feed my sheep". Aren't you contradicting yourselves?

Or could it be that the first 3 postings was by the same person who looks like & sounds like an ex-Deacon who used to have Proverbs 9:9 (Be Yet Wiser) on his school badge & who had asked "why did it take you guys so long to wise up to SP's antics" when he had first heard of the actions taken by the TT (Truth & Transparency) group lately AND the last posting is by someone else masquerading as "pshnah"? Just wondering.

pshn said...

Dear all

Oops! Looks like I poked into a hornet's nest. More like a wift of very hot air from a fiery furnace that hit into my face.

Hey! We're the same side. So I'll take it as friendly fire.

PshNah submitted all the 4 postings. In the first 3 I identified with the dogged and courageous fighters of CC.

Then I submitted the 4th posting because I saw the collateral damage that may be occurring.

Are new christians comming to CC? Don't they usually come because they seeking God for answers to life's questions? Don't they need pastoring? Will they not be thrown off with all the infighting that is going on? Will they not become upset and disillusion and say "My God! This church seems to have more problems than I do" and just slip away....to join a "better" religion? Yes, these are the collateral damages that are occurring.

What is the primary purpose of CC. Is not to win souls and nuture them spiritually? If this is not the primary purpose then what is? Trying to get at SP?

Have we forgotten who our real enemy is? Eph. 6:12 - For we are not fighting against flesh & blood...

I see 2 losing groups here, the teh tarik group and the SP's group. There is going to be only one winner....Satan!!

How long is this fight going to carry on? For how much longer will there be collateral damage? For how long will the primary purpose of CC be put on hold? 2 years, 5 years...10 years?

Hey! I am already 63 years old. I have just retired and I want to serve effectively before I say my last goodbye. Are you all going to settle the problem soon? Because there is literally not much time left.

Can it be seen that this is an issue...and that it is a rather big and complicated one. Can we say that God allows issues to build us up spiritually? So lets ask ourselves....it making us better or bitter.

Paul in Eph. 4;31,32 -Get rid of bitterness, rage,anger, harsh words and slander...instead be kind to each other, tenderhearted,forgiving one another just as God through Christ has forgiven you.

I suppose some of us will say,"I can forgive anybody....ANYBODY...but NOT SP! I know. SP just the knack to rile up people. I've been there!

In the end, whoever is the enemy, we need to grow spiritually and help the younger christians, especially our own children, to grow.

Back to the wall of Jericho. God will destroy that monstrous wall but in His own time. The Lord will deal with SP in His own way at His own time. Do we need to waste our time trailing him just so that we will see it happening with our own eyes?

I say NO!

Lets go fishing!

Anonymous said...

I see where you are coming from but sorry I cannot accept your explanation. Too many people in the past has done just that - left and let him be. But not this time. Enough is enough.

BTW, do you really think he will give us "money" to go start another church, like you suggested earlier?

Unknown said...

Dear Pshnah
Ya, let's go fishing!!!!
But cannot relax there also cos our heart is still very burden for CC.
I believe we need to stop the rot with God's wisdom. God has his own timing. NOW IS THE TIME.
And as long as the sins are not purge out God will not send a revival. What we need now is cleasing. And after that God will bring the increase, not man.
You have been there and we do have limited time to serve the Lord. Right now, we are doing it for our children sake.
We are not going to run away from the problem but are staying to solve it.
We want to to be part of the plans that God has for our BELOVED church

Anonymous said...

Hi PshNah,

Many thanks for clearing the air. At least, we now know that nobody on SP's side has masqueraded as you. I can understand your explanation for changing your stance BUT I cannot accept that you have done it after less than 8 hours; thus I thought it was someone else.

As for your fear of the collateral damage, bear in mind that there would be no Protestant churches today if Martin Luther had just walked away quietly. At 63, you are not too old to be used by the Lord (you may have retired BUT perhaps He wants to refire you), He has equipped you perhaps for such a time; your maturity & experience would come in useful to the TTG (Truth, Transparency & Governance) members, pray about it.

We need to persevere for God's sake as we earnestly & honestly believed that He has placed us in CC for such a time & He has now raised us up to confront SP's misdeeds. In the earlier years, people have just left quietly, just like those who kena the "LOTT" treatment has kept quiet BUT what all have done, in failing to speak up for God & the Truth, is that you have nurtured the monster in SP. Haven't you guys read that "spare the rod & spoil the child"?

SP is now the spoilt brat who not only "take" the cookies from the jar without the knowledge of the CC members, looks like he was ready to just "take" the whole jar. SP was "caught" doing that when God exposed him at the last AGM when he tried to exclude the Extended Ministries' accounts from CC & its members. It was also disclosed that the Calvary Bookshop is registered NOT in CC's name BUT in SAP's name.

Only SP himself (& God of course) knows what other CC assets are NOT registered in CC's name BUT in the name(s) of SP's appointee(s).

Anonymous said...

Dear PSHNAH,

It is my heart's desire that all the Calvarites who have left because of whatever reasons or whoever is the reason to return to Calvary Church,now and in the very near future.

We cannot allow the church to be destroyed.

Let's rebuild Calvary Church to what it should be, for His glory.

But we need the ex-Calvarites to return to your 'homeland'

Just imagine, we see droves and droves of ex-Calvarites especially those who were leaders, deacons, ex-staff, choir members, cell leaders start returning to Calvary Church in the next few weeks or months!

Let God speak to you and lead you!

pshn said...

Just some clarifications:
To stop the rot, By saying lets go fishing I mean lets go and save some souls for the kingdom of God.

To New Beginnings, that’s a good vision to have.

To the Teh-Tarik people:
I respect and appreciate the work done the whole teh-tarik group. The stride you have taken is unimaginable during my time.

When I left Calvary I was alone with no hint of any support from anywhere - the BOD, pastoral and ministerial staff and practically the whole congregation was in awe with regards to the SP’s ministry.

I am against the same things as the teh-tarik group. The only difference was my concern with regards to the collateral damage occurring simultaneously. I meet excalvarites all over town almost every other day.

Another difference is the distance you want to go before you accept you have got the victory. I can see that some of you at least want to battle all the way. I still stand on what I believe, that time is of essence and that the sooner rebuilding occurs the better.

To Ah Beng:
Concerning my leaving Calvary you must first understand about roots and fruits. The type of fruits a tree bears depends on the type of root the tree has. Bad roots give rise to bad fruits. E.g if pride is the root then the fruits will be arrogance, egoism, insistence on being called by tittles etc.

In my last years of service as a Deacon I notice bad roots developing in the SP. The fruits were not so obvious then. The last straw was SP insisting he was right on a policy issue when I knew that he was’nt. The altercation was dealt in a very high-handed way.

There was little support from the rest of the BOD. I resigned in protest. And also about that time SP was chasing for the Datukship.

All this put together did not augur well. I decided that I will not want my family members to be under the spiritual covering of such a Pastor. My family members were not in agreement but I insisted.

Ah Beng, I did not RUN away! I walked away with purposeful and measured steps.

And it was not due to a lack of faith that I did not stay in Calvary. On the contrary, I thought it took a lot of faith to walk away. I had serve as a Deacon for 18 years - half my adult life. CC was the only church I knew in Malaysia. I had many friends in Calvary. I was well respected.

Then to go away to another church where I am unknown to any body and to start all over again? I think that commands a lot of faith.

I sought for a better spiritual leadership covering for my family and I have not regretted it even though I myself have not serve in any high leadership positions since.

However, I take solace in the fact that my wife is well-respected and happy and my children are actively involved in singing, missions and standing up for the human rights of exploited immigrants.

But really it is not a question of whether you have faith to you stay or leave. It really you own personal conviction about what God wants you to do.

NO I did not leave behind any unsettled cases of financial misappropriation of funds. Nothing was apparent at that time.

Though I must confess there were aspects of the constitution related to the SP that I did not give much attention to as I was already preparing to leave.
Please be encouraged, the Teh-Tarik group.

Lastly, please cut down the friendly fire. You friendliness is just killing me!

Unknown said...

Dear Pshnah
I know what you mean, let's go fishing, just that right now cleansing is TTG concerned. I believe this is our calling right now.
Right the wrong

Anonymous said...

Well, we can also go fishing while we right the wrong. We are multi-taskers. PTL.

Anonymous said...

Dear PSHNAH,

Thank you for your sincere sharing about your past and why you have left Calvary Church. I can imagine how you felt. A few years ago, I thought I was alone in how I felt about what SP was doing in Calvary Church. But then later, I discovered that there so many who have felt the same way as me.

Indeed many have left Calvary Church and its rather sad. I have been to Calvary Church for so long that it hurts to see so many leaving the church because of what one person can do. How can we let him continue to do so? I heard that some have left Calvary Church and does not even attend any church anymore due to him. Some have left with bitterness. Is this what a true shepherd should be doing? Sow more bitterness among its sheep and asking them to leave the farm and go to another farm? Or better still, jump into the lake?

Now they are blaming the TTG for causing so many to leave the church. I could have left too but I was there before he came to Calvary Church. And all we can do is just watch him do what he wants. How can??

PSHNAH, it will be great to meet up with you though I think this is only wishful thinking.

How wish I could meet up with all the ex-Calvarites together with the TTG and all those who believe in Truth and Transparency? Maybe we should have a big gathering for this occassion?

Anonymous said...

Yes, please cut down friendly fire, do pray for God's discerment whenever we read comments, thats where the holy spirit will guide us ! Thank you so much Pshnah for your sincerity and honesty. I personally sensed that you had been such a blessings to the TTG. And if i read your comments correctly, i too want to express my appreciation to you and family and children, they had been wonderful when they were little kids in the church !Praise the Lord, we pray His mercies endured forever in CC.

pshn said...

Thank God the friendly fire has stopped and roses are being passed around. Now I feel I am from the same army.

Also I wanted to wait for AH Beng to reply before I did.

I am praying about what I should do. I have been praying for you all. Now that I have retired I spend the morning hours praying.

But you all are doing such a great job. Anyway, I will seek the Lord.

Be of good cheer TTG!

Anonymous said...

Hi PSHNAH,

I do not wish to reveal my identity here but I am really glad to spoke up.

It just confirmed what we are doing are right. We dont make up stories.

You do know me and I know you. Haha.

How many people know that you love to eat char keow teow with two glasses of........? I shall not reveal it here. Haha!

Anonymous said...

Sorry, I mean ".. glad that you spoke up."