To brothers and sisters from other churches, especially from AOG churches, please PRINT A COPY for your Pastors and Leaders to read.
This is an Open Letter addressed to Pastors and Christian Leaders. By now we believe the Calvary Church Crisis (CCC) is no longer confined to Calvary Church members and friends alone. It is now known all over Malaysia and abroad. While we have received many encouragements and support from the general Christian community, we also understand that there are many Pastors and Christian Leaders who does not agreed with the TTG people for using the public channel to seek justice for Calvary Church members. Our appeal to you is that you will read this Letter with an open mind and answer the questions with all honesty as unto God.
AFTER THAT, try to place yourself in our shoes as Ordinary Members in the Church, who have supported the Church with your TIME, your TALENTS and your FINANCES and to find your Pastors have abused your trust and have lied to you - WOULD YOU HAVE DONE THE SAME?
If for the past two years you have run around looking for help from Pastors, Christian Leaders and even looked to the Christian Organizations in and out of the country to help but no one cared enough to do something - WHO ELSE CAN YOU GO TO?
If you are just an Ordinary Member who have been serving and supporting your Church and your Pastors since becoming a Christian, then together with other faithful Christian brothers and sisters many whom you did not know before, feel this strong passion in your heart to stand up for what is right - not just as a Christian but as a person in general living in a community - WOULD YOU THINK THAT YOU ARE SATANIC?
If all you are asking for is that Truth, Transparency and Good (Godly) Governance is practiced in the Church - DO YOU THINK THAT YOU ARE PLANNING TO BECOME THE NEXT PASTOR?
****************************************************
Dear Pastors and Christian Leaders in Malaysia,
What is happening in Calvary Church must grieve our Lord Jesus and you, as a pastor, must be deeply saddened too. But before you throw bricks at the concerned members perhaps you should ask why and how this came about. What is this really all about? Some have condemned us for bringing Christianity into disrepute. Are Christians to cover up our internal wrongdoings and sins or are we to deal with it openly, decisively and righteously? The Catholic Church covered up the sexual abuses within their Church for more than 30 years. Well, it is now fully exposed and the cover up made it all the more sordid. Just as we would not judge all pastors by what we have experienced, we ask that pastors not judge us without knowing what we have gone through.
This Open Letter is to set the record straight and to give pastors a better understanding of the situation in Calvary Church. A complete chronology of events is beyond the scope of this letter. However, such information is available either from the worldwide web or from any of the concerned members. Then you can judge rightly and perhaps more fairly.
We had not intended to make it public. We had tried to keep it within the Kingdom of God. But we discovered that all those who had advised us, to keep it within the Kingdom of God, were more interested to keep things under wraps than solving the underlying problems. We found no help from the Christian leadership in this country. The religious establishment is dominated by pastors. From where can aggrieved members seek help? Therefore we had to seek redress from the civil court. When we were “sacked” from membership, we knew we could not hope to get help from any Christian organisation or Christian leader. We had to make the protest ourselves.
Please allow us to ask you a few questions to put things in perspective. Would you, as a pastor, do the following?
#1 - Set up a personal ministry, under yours and your family’s control, and then divert funds from missionary offerings into your personal ministry without the knowledge of the members?
#2 - Make a collection from the congregation for an overseas disaster relief and then not send it to the victims but divert the collection into your own personal ministry?
#3 - Misrepresent the nature of your personal ministry to gain membership in NECF?
#4 - Remove key ministries which are integral to the wholeness of the Church from out of the Church ownership, calling them independent, and placing them under the control of your children and their spouses?
#5 - Place your children and their spouses in high positions in these “independent” ministries and remove their job evaluations, salaries and other terms of employment from the purview of the Board of Deacons?
#6 - Remove whole families from the Church membership roll if one of them is deemed to be against you in any way?
#7 - Remove members from serving, some from leadership positions, because they voted for a resolution which you did not favour?
#8 - Require that all other pastors in the Church declare love gifts received and exempt yourself and your wife and children from this requirement?
#9 - Allow yourself and your family special privileges not available to other pastors in the Church?
#10 - Ensure that all copies of the Minutes of the Board of Deacons’ meetings are destroyed except for the copy under your sole custody?
#11- Devise a structure that you would have veto power over all decisions made by the Board of Deacons, Committees and Sub-committees in the Church?
#12 - Devise a process whereby on the surface there is free and fair elections of deacons whereas in effect you control the entire process ensuring that the Board of Deacons is completely under your control?
If you would not, then you can empathise with us on what we are facing. The main and real issue is about absolute power in one man’s hands and the lack of check and balance in the Church. Transparency and Good Governance must be practised in our Church.
If there is no Accountability and Transparency in our Church, then we have no right to ask for the same from the government or the world. For we would have lost our moral authority to impact the world and to be its transforming agent, and we ought to be cast out and stamped underfoot like salt that has lost its saltiness.
60 comments:
There was a question earlier asking what what happened last friday prayer meeting. A friend told me, they announced got 3 options for the ccc .
1) abandom project & lose everything
2) continue to build at RM36Million extra by appointing new contractor
3)build it ourselves
Will they call for egm to explain this? or just make members feel pity for (God's house????) and continue to give.
Don't be fooled anymore. Ask PG to sell his house and go live with his son, give the money to church first then we give. also ask his daughter and grand children to come back study in malaysia, then we give. We must Turn Off The Tap.
Well done CT & TTG. Keep up the good work, it's about time the pastors live up to their names.
It has come a point where we as the members of the church MUST and OBLIGATED to write in to the management of Calvary Church to call for an EGM to explain what has happened and is happening to the CCC project.
Can someone who was there last Friday confirm what has been announced as pointed out by "ccc update". If what has been pointed out by "ccc update" is true, then it just shows that PG and the CC management have come out with a dubious tactic of scaring the members to continue giving to this so-called God's project. Look at the 3 options they mentioned?
Come on bros & sis, let us write in for an answer from them. The court only ruled that the AGM could not be carried out but it never said about an EGM to discuss the issues of CCC. So if the CC management gives the excuse that they can't call for an EGM because of the court ruling, tell it to their face that they are a BIG LIAR!
They have cheated us for many occasions and they still want to lie and cheat us. The actual work in CCC stopped sometime April 2009 and yet they showed video clips of the so-called progress in the construction site before asking us to contribute more. How preposterous! ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!
If they ignore our request for an EGM, then we would organize another walk to PG's office to hand him a memorandum. I'm sure many more would join in this time. And you can be sure the press would be very happy to come, after what is happening in City Harvest Church Singapore. Do you think it's a coincidence that the SP of City Harvest Church and PG are buddies and that both the churches they're leading having the similar issues? NO! Everything have their time and season.
Go to
www.intelius.com
Check on PG properties in US !!!!!
Thanks for the update on CCC. I don't see any of those options as having a good head-start from where it's left off. They have emphasized how God has given them miracles along the way to embark on this project. If this truly is God's vision for Calvary Church, then they should not even present option 1. They should finish what they started.
Option 2 is crazy. The church is already struggling to raise funds for the original sum. 36million additional ringgit is such a huge sum of money. We're not talking 36K or 360K. Option 2 should be abandoned. If the leadership has faith in the Lord, they should wait upon God to provide the right contractor at the right price.
So they're left with option 3. I shan't comment. I don't even know how to build a chair let alone build a convention centre!
The question now is not whether ccc will be completely built or not. The church look at the wrong direction. The property make no different to the kingdom of God. In fact, it is a burden now. Even if ccc is completely built, it is not of God. Look at the attitudes of the pastors now, do you think it is of God? No accountability nor moral; very arrogant, hypocrite, deceiveful, money lover, greedy, selfish & all kind of worldly attitude, simply worse than pagans. No point focus on continue ccc, the white-washed tomb when there are still many death things inside. Before we even look at what the church achieve, lets ask where is moral? Today's church has wealth but is so poor in moral; rich financially but poor in integrity.
What Ps Tamaki of New Zealand, Ps Kong Hee of Singapore, & Tan Sri Prince Guneratnam of Malaysia have in common? ALl of them are pastors who love money, plunder the church using God's name & try to justify their robbery in the name of evangelism.
Such church robbery is not new. It is as old as PG first enter into ministry. The different is that the magnitude of the robbery and the "less-shame" of doing such has increase over the years. The conscious of mankind has been darken that people feel no guilty or even proud of doing so. But thank God that He is doing house-keeping now. He is cleaning up His household from these dirt.
Can anyone share what happen to the often mentioned "Lake club" incident?
sp and deacons must be held responsible for the losses ..all these yrs they been enjoying high glories put the money where the mouth is! they must sell their house cars pianos and anything to cover our losses!
style add gaya sudah ada..sekarang tyre sudah puncit!
these are no longer my pastors and deacons.
can some make more police reports. some help on setting up questions pamplets and banners..i will continue my class action!
Luke 14:28"Suppose one of you wants to build a tower. Will he not first sit down and estimate the cost to see if he has enough money to complete it? 29For if he lays the foundation and is not able to finish it, everyone who sees it will ridicule him, 30saying, 'This fellow began to build and was not able to finish.'
Matthew 7 : 25 - 26
25 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock.
26 But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand.
Is the pastor, who is building the house, walk the talk, or just talk the talk?
The winds is coming to Calvary, like it did to City Harvest...
Those are valid questions.
Many people in CC are obviously going through a lot of pain.
My extra 2 cents and hopeful prayer is that the TTG group (who are by default playing a surrogate leadership pastoral role to many who are affected) are thinking beyond the current situation and into the future.
When the CC situation changes, there will be a leadership and pastoral vacuum. These need to be filled wisely or the situation will get worse. Expect and be ready for a long tough journey. There is a lesson from the OT that I think needs to be heeded.
Exodus 23:29-30 29 But I will not drive them out in a single year, because the land would become desolate and the wild animals too numerous for you. 30 Little by little I will drive them out before you, until you have increased enough to take possession of the land.
My other hope is that the pain has not created bitterness that will be come deep seated(realistically with the anger and hurts, there will be some bitterness - very few of us have the spiritual maturity and depth to not be feel the hurt).
I pray that there will be an option for the restoration under discipline of pastors and BOD members who have erred and are repentant. This will be what will give glory to God. The measure of success for me is not so much numbers but a caring community that shows that one facet of the beauty of the power of God's grace is restoration.
I think of Jim Bakker and his fall from grace. It is wonderful to know he is back in ministry. (I read in a book of how others helped him find his way by allowing him the opportunity to reflect and serve quietly).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Bakker#Later_career
Lets put City Harvest aside, thus Ps Kong Hee. A little wait won't harm while investigation is on going will soon provide more accurate facts.
"Lake club" incident was an unfortunate situation could happen to any careless man. Please spare him from further embarrassment. Lets focus on the key subject matters.
sound familar?17.Religion has convinced people that there’s an invisible man…living in the sky, who watches everything you do every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a list of ten specific things he doesn’t want you to do. And if you do any of these things, he will send you to a special place, of burning and fire and smoke and torture and anguish for you to live forever, and suffer and burn and scream until the end of time. But he loves you. He loves you and he needs money.
Religion convinced the world that there's an invisible man in the sky who watches everything you do. And there's 10 things he doesn't want you to do or else you'll go to a burning place with a lake of fire until the end of eternity. But he loves you! ...And he needs money! He's all powerful, but he can't handle money!
sound like my axed pastor?
It is so ironic that up to this point in time CC leadership just don't get it. One look at the 3 options tells you they are "man originated". If something is of God there's no such thing as 3 options. With God there's only ONE option! At the risk of sounding religious just imagine if Moses and the Israelites were to be given 3 options at the edge of the red sea !!
The interesting thing about these 3 options if you read them carefully is, CC leadership is placing the burden entirely upon the members. Where is the leadership accountability ???
I truely agreed to the action taken by Calvary Today.
HAVE WE NOT EXHAUSTED ALL AVENUES? TTG GROUP HAS. (REPLY TO THE LETTER FROM SO CALLED "PASTOR")
TTG HAS called for a meeting with SP and its Deacons, however, it was turn-down by saying the Deacons COULD NOT make it.
CANT THEY ARRANGE OTHER DATE IF THEY ARE SERIOUS IN MEETING-UP?
SEEKING THE TRUTH, TRANSPARENCY AND GOOD GODLY GOVERNANCE, ISNT WRONG???ISNT A SIN?
DEFINATELY NO, NO.
Here is a forum of discussion on CHC $310M involvement in Suntec Signapore.
Click
http://forums.asiaone.com/showthread.php?t=30277
QUOTE 1
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"This is what will happen when a church decides that it wants to be run like a business organization and decide for themsleves what god wants...
God NEVER asked anyone to build a "Temple" but because of David, He approved of Solomon to built one...So it never fails to amaze me when some people come and tell me that god had ask them to built Him a magnificent "Temple"? Isn't God the same, yesterday, today and tomorrow? Can there be a sudden change of heart? Certainly NOT GOD...so who asked who to built a magnificent "Temple"? God?"
QUOTE 2
=======
"Wonder where the idea of building hugh magnificent "churches" come from when we are told to go and make disciples, baptise and teach? Can't we make disciples, baptise and teach without hugh magnificent building? Afterall Jesus did not need it, neither did the 12 or even Paul..."
existing churches object discourage t t g for 1 apparently reason: many of these churches are operating like sole enterprise .this c c will open cans of worms..with calvary today , many of my friends are beginning to ask questions . sp is now an isolated "grand master" my cousin told us, their church (very senior) is avoiding even to be seen with sp and any related activities. that why the convention sp and c c was MISSING!
answer is simple: the pastor and gang get a big pile of comission .that is big money,why did they appointed a non performing contractor in the 1st place? and made payment advances ahead of work ?
what is sp net worth is assets and cash in malaysia and overseas?
or his nominated proxies?
the bigger the lie the bigger the promises, it become more true , isnt it?
sacking 400 members , sp thought he can get rid of these members? he think with his goodwill from a o g ,the c c c fiasco will be buried in the mud.sure misjudged .
with the tan sri ship, i wondered how much money were taken to donate to friendly parties or agents?
Can someone verify if Prince Guneratnam indeed has 3 properties in USA?
http://www.intelius.com/search-summary-out.php?ReportType=1&qf=Prince+&qmi=&qn=Guneratnam&qs=&trackit=74&focusfirst=1
From Intelius
"We found 5 people that match P Guneratnam in the United States.
1.Pam J Guneratnam Marietta, GA
2.Prince Guneratnam, Springfield,MO
3.Pam J Guneratnam, Springfield, MO
4.Prince Guneratnam, Springfield, MO
5.Pam Guneratnam, Costa Mesa, CA"
57.“One thing leads to another”? Not always. Sometimes one thing leads to the same thing. it start with some small money later to 1.8 mil and now sp threatened either we pay up another 35 millions or he be next flight out to his beach front...he must be joking..we aint dumb! church rise up!
either he face the questions , take responsiblity .
hero now zero!
i wont be surprised he has tucked those godly hard earned money from us safely and next 1st class ticket OUT!
CHURCH, RISE UP WRITE TO EVERY PASTORS EVERY DEACONS..! JUST PHOTOSTATE T T G blog and circulate !
church rise !
The thing is that, CCC is not even a church! it is convention centre. CC could have build a big church with much lower cost.
City Harvest could have also build a huge church with that kind of money.
But WHY convention centre?
And the sad part is CC members are made to believe that the church is building another church!
sp aint fool and neither are his napoleans! there is a silent campaign among few groups aligned to sp for a alternative caretaker senior pastor, and appointment of 3 more deacons. this will temporary ease some pressures! likewise sp will seemed to compromise ..another word : accomodating t t g .
these are under discussion at this stage . THERE IS NO COMPROMISE ON THE CRIMINAL BEACH OF TRUST AND FINANCIAL LOSSES INCURRED .
SP had his glorious days of luxurious...he and his families enjoyed good harvest of our money.
it is pay back time to the lord and his house.
hilarios ..c c is a convention centre and we been thinking ita mega church with a big cross on it..and if these c c complete sp be selling the old church for a song ..and pocket more money? just wild guess but after so many of his scums ..cant be that far out.
c c members should slap each other face this sunday service instead of shaking hand,,and say, we are suckers ...you too!
i am definately eating chap fun to night instead of wan tan mee!
Referring to the 5 people who match P Guneratnam in the US from Intelius search. Considering that Springfield, Missouri is where the AOG headquarters is located, are we still surprised to see Prince Guneratnam's name there in property listing?
Don't give your money to the church. They should be giving their money to you."
Just in case some of you don't know, PG's son and grandson's real name is also Prince Guneratnam. What they are called in church is their nick names. Looks like eveyone in PG's family has got at least 1 house in US.
Genesispassion
To add onto what u said, our ex fund raising committee Jeannie Friis mentioned the CCC is dedicated to holistic activites, whatever that means.
ex-calvarite
i am shocked.
that is awesome..owning 5 properties in usa in us dollars.each sunday , every 1st week of the month..no wonder sp always bless us ...big big money come..!! we should lodge a report with the tax people on this..and i suspect sp must have illigel means to transfer money out! or he has his pastors and deacons acting for him? or the tan sri ship exempt him?
this is AWESOME!
SP IS NOT DUMD ..after all! very carefully executed plans with all names in one.this must have been planned 30 yrs ago.for 30 yrs milking us..assuming 10 000 a month ..that is 3.6 million . for a tan sri standard..what about 50 k a month ..18 million .that is cool ..neat clean money!
one sp can earn more then some of our public listed companies.
this is mega business mega church mega prayer!
i salute sp and all the princes !
So PG's family, all of them have already secured their US Green Vard Permanent Resident status ! US is their NEW SECOND HOME ?
www.cultwatch.com/HowPastorsGetRich.html
with cash well tucked in. we still be here lamenting how dumb we been..in the name of god , love, care and promised land.30 yrs he has already master mind ,first send the kids there at biz class and transfer funds to the same name..undetected ! one italian job movie!
seemed he is jumping ship to a super liner. everything he will say : GOD WILL,GOD BLESS AND of course, god willed we be wiser and poorer!
slautation ..a classic tan sri class ! we are far from his standarard.
Let us not jump to conclusion re SP owning houses in US. The search just shows a person's residence in US., i.e. all places the person had resided in, not necessarily owning the residence.
Checked this with the name of a friend who is a citizen there but do not own any house.
Perhaps if one rents a house for a longer period, although not a PR he could be located in the search. Anyway it is a mystery how SP's name and his daughter's name came up in the search - if they are not even PR.
Please be careful and do the search properly before jumping to conclusions.
Yes, PG sure has planned everything at least 30 or more years ago.
Well, PG changed the CC Constitution 25 years ago in 1985.
PG then disbanded the various thriving & successful departments & ministries 11 years ago in 1999 when he closed down the Golden Eagles, Men Ministries, etc. & said that they should just be homogeneous LGs.
Then, the master stroke of master strokes was about 8 years ago in 2002 when he incorporated his personal ministry which he styled as Calvary International Ministries (CIM).
All of us who have been in CC for 20 or more years will recollect that PG has always got us to contribute towards visiting pastors'/evangelists'/missionaries' ministries after they have preached on Sundays.
But how is it that we have never heard of any of them reciprocrating by contributing towards CC or even CCC? Could it be that they had been hoodwinked by PG into giving money to CIM thinking that they were actually giving to CC or CCC? If so, PG would then just conveniently parked the funds in his offshore CIM accounts so that he can use them to buy his US properties.
If this is true then PG has cheated CC, CCC & all Calvarites, not to mention God.
No wonder that someone had said recently that PG's CCC actually stands for Calvary Con-Man-sion Centre.
The Honor The Pastor Scam
Money focused churches tend to be run on cultic patterns. One of these cultic patterns is the division of the church into exclusive rings: the all-powerful pastor perched at the center, the inner-ring of sycophants around him consisting of the pastor's lieutenants and the church's privileged class (the rich, the famous and the very pretty), and the outer-ring of the ordinary folk who would love to be in the inner-ring, but are not.
The power of those in the inner-ring is determined by the amount of favor the pastor bestows upon them.
To get more favor the inner-ring will employ many favor-currying measures, one of which is a scam called "Honoring the Pastor". It works this way, the inner-ring will figure out what the pastor would like, say for his birthday. Then the inner-ringers will squeeze the outer-ringers for the money to buy this item.
Using this method pastors have been "given": diamond rings for their wives, cash gifts, jet skis, luxury cruises, motorbikes, cars, holidays, boats, and a myriad of other expensive luxury items.
Are the pastors complicit in this game? Of course they are. They couldn't demand the gift openly themselves, but seek plausible deniability by having their inner-ring lieutenants do the work. Of course they could refuse the gift when it is presented, and make it clear that they don't want the Lord's money spent on such things again, but they never do. These pastors exchange their favor, for cash from their congregation.
Your Counter Strategy: Unless it's something reasonable like a bunch of flowers for the pastor's wife, don't give to this sort of fund raising.
extracts:
wont be surprised the contract with nam fatt was a big cash out..if the members become so attached and scare of lose face will continue selling their houses, downgraded their cards send their kids to local uni instead of overseas..sp will have another bumper harvest. if this dont work, one excuse to retire and migrate to u s a lived luxuriosly.30 yrs with 18 millions stashed is more then enough to last few princes. i am suspicios , to do such a sting, some deacons and pastors would have act in concert.
one A TEAM operation?or robert redford and paul newman? re produced at calvary !
we are sitting and bewildered how unintelligent we been!
MICHAEL CHONG:DON'T CLOSE ONE EYE
PETALING JAYA: Malaysians should not fear speaking out against their religious leaders who misuse their authority, MCA Public Services and Complaints Department head Datuk Michael Chong said.
“Some people are intimidated just because these people occupy positions in religious organisations. Some are afraid that if they come out to speak, they are going against their faith,” he said.
Chong assured the public not to be deterred by such leaders as “they can be better than actors” at manipulating their followers.
“Some can even win an Oscar award in scheming their way through,” he said.
Chong was asked to comment on a report in The Star yesterday which stated that the Registrar of Complaints had received numerous reports about abuses in religious organisations.
The complaints include chairmen who refused to let go of their posts, missing cash donations and unlawful sacking of members.
Chong said there were members of religious organisations who “kept one eye closed” to wrongdoings because they did not want to embarrass anyone.
“If they are clearly in the wrong, speak out, because at the end of the day, we are all mere humans. God knows and will be there to judge us,” he added.
“They can make a police report, go to their MP or state representative. They can even come to me if they have any grouses.”
On Wednesday’s Starprobe report about a “temple” which was built on public funds but had been closed to the public, Chong believed the case was “just the tip of an iceberg” of religious leaders misusing their positions.
However, he also noted that many religious leaders were doing a great job.
“Most of the religious leaders I know are revered and have a good heart,” he said.
Here are some bullet points about tithing that these money hungry pastors don't want you to know:
1. The New Testament Church did not tithe.
2. The New Testament does not teach tithing for Christians.
Their favorite Malachi verses cannot be used for Christians since Christians are not under the law of Moses.
3. Abraham's one off tithe of his war booty did not set up a precedent for Christians to regularly tithe their income.
The version of tithing they teach cannot be found in Scripture (see below).
4. The "Storehouse" in Malachi cannot be equated to your local church organization.
There are plenty of rich (money wise) Christians who do not tithe. This would be impossible if their version of tithing was true.
5. The New Testament teaching is that you decide how much to give, and there are no rules about where it goes. You cannot be compelled to give.
to be careful fully agreed ..there are 2 questions..isnt sp full time serving here with full time pay what is he doing "renting" 5 places in u s a ? or perhaps to avoid any implications..it time he come clean on his actvities in u s a ? last 30 yrs as i know..c c has no dealing with any church or grouping in u s ?
come clean and be seemed to be clean then?
the last 5 yrs there been alot of mishaps and money moved out and back , is that an co incidence or the perceived holy spirit change his mind?
it seemed too much ...incidents?
given him a discount of 80% , he still in question?
all those virtous big talks seemed to evaporated into thin air ? when MONEY BECOME THE NEW GOD.
there are more then meet the eyes, more will surface very soon,30 yrs is a very long time...his bank accct and those private minitries accts are 1st lead. perhaps we shouldnt miss the pastors and deacons ?
how much is tan sri sp and families worth?does he pay taxes for love offering private donation,function engagements? are these declared? any payments to 3rd parties for tan sri ship ? just some questions..? seemed there is some talks that it was the devil who instructed him to move 1.8 million to his ministry and its the devil bright ideas?
What a beautiful letter! Written in spirit and in truth! Lord, I believe this letter is according to Your will, and You know what to do, sovereign Lord! Hallelujah!
to "BE CAREFUL"
well, according to those who have been into PG Grand daughter's 'facebook', she had boasted of her apartment in US--posing to show-off, and make her friends feel ENVIOUS of her lifestyle.( she flaunts it!)
Like you said, better to check for sure--so, why not
you look into their eyes and ask PG1, PG2, or any of the G in person True or false--what are revealed
in here?
Also, we are just as puzzled as you ".. it is a mystery how SP's name and his daughter's name came up in the search - if they are not even PR? " ( How sure are you???--so you need to ask the Gs')
Awaits to hear from you.
perfect hideaway.stashed funds.these kids are couriered in the name of education expenses, living expenses all in the name of god s blessing from our pocket ?while we save less luxurious for our kids..take from john give mary ?maybe devil use sp to teach us a lesson ...?or sp use god to open our ignorance? both ways ..we are grilled steamed fish.
to be careful, we are not alone ..you are welcome to join us at the front this sunday .we can asked all the ushers with deep bags to serve u first..?
This is addressed to 'Tithing':
Although tithing is not mentioned per se in the NT, a careful study tells us that now we are to 'give bountifully,' and maybe not just 10 percent!
2 Corinthians 9:6 (King James Version)
6 But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully.
A "VISION" - FEET WASHING!
The Lord gave me a "vision" last night and I was surprised the "vision" happened to be in line with my daily reading this morning: Gospel of John 13:1-15.
I always wondered how a church now divided will one day be reunited and in harmony with one another.
How can hurts and wounds caused by words uttered in the heat of argument be erased from our memory?
How will "recalcitrant acts" of a person disappear never to be remembered by those who were hurt?
How will reconciliation ever take place in Calvary and true inner healing experienced when the present saga is over?
I know it seem so strange but I "saw" members of Calvary - those "for and against" in the congregation, washing each others feet!
Much tears was shed! There was an atmosphere of forgiveness and inner healing as brothers and sisters who were once inseparable but divided by the enemy now united as ONE BODY under ONE HEAD -the LORD JESUS CHRIST.
As for the present leaders there were some who repented and were washing the feet of those members who had once stood against them because they chose to stand on the side of the Lord for TRUTH.
HOWEVER, NOT ALL THE LEADERS WERE PRESENT. There was a marked absence of some of the leaders! What happened to these 'missing' leaders - the 'vision' did not disclose only that they will never be part of Calvary Church.
Let us pray - intercede that this "vision" becomes a reality.
Vijay
Let's stay focus on this Hearing and Fast and Pray for Wisdom, Revelation, Peace and Tranquility to prevail in the Hearing on 5-7-2010.
1)The 3rd Defendant, AOG Malaysia has applied to strike out our suit against them.
2)The hearing for this was held on 4 June 2010.
3)The Judge will deliver her judgment on 5 July 2010.
dear bro vijay , soon we have a missing sp , missing deacons missing pastors .that is ok .or we be having missing money title , grants, and bank acct emptied..what about missing files ? if these act of transfer money out to personal acct, sacking of 400 familes, awarding to wrong bankrupt contractor..what else cant be done?
Fabricated Tithing Doctrine
This is the big daddy. This is their sacred cow. This is the beating heart of their evil empire. The crown jewel. The Death Star. The one ring to bill them all. The pot of gold. Their matrix (into which they want to plug you). Their Wizard of Oz. Their magic spell. Their special power. Their secret recipe with the eleven herbs and spices. Their Golden Goose. The very air upon which they breathe!
Question this doctrine and watch these money hungry pastors bare their fangs. This is a teaching that they will bear no compromise on. Tithing, or at least their own version of tithing, is their one true love.
Here are some bullet points about tithing that these money hungry pastors don't want you to know:
The New Testament Church did not tithe.
The New Testament does not teach tithing for Christians.
Their favorite Malachi verses cannot be used for Christians since Christians are not under the law of Moses.
Abraham's one off tithe of his war booty did not set up a precedent for Christians to regularly tithe their income.
The version of tithing they teach cannot be found in Scripture (see below).
The "Storehouse" in Malachi cannot be equated to your local church organization.
There are plenty of rich (money wise) Christians who do not tithe. This would be impossible if their version of tithing was true.
The New Testament teaching is that you decide how much to give, and there are no rules about where it goes. You cannot be compelled to give.
It may come as a surprise to learn that their tithing doctrine is a combination of twisted scriptures and wishful thinking, as opposed to solid Biblical exegesis reflecting a central thrust of New Testament teaching. Here is their tithing doctrine stated in a nutshell:…. Cond…
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"Christians must give ten percent of their gross income only to their church organization. If they do, then God will bless them for any offerings they make to the church organization beyond this ten percent. But if they do not give ten percent gross, then they are stealing from God and God will curse them."
There are variations of this teaching, and sometimes it is called a "principle", but the above definition contains the core essence of this doctrine.
It is vital to grasp that tithing is not for Christians. Tithing was part of the old law (of Moses) which was fulfilled (completed) by Jesus. You know that Christians are not under the law of Moses don't you?
But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code. - Romans 7:6
know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified. - Galatians 2:16
All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law." - Galatians 3:10
New wine should not be put into old wine skins, nor should new unshrunk cloth be used to patch an old garment; if you think you need to obey the law of tithing then you need to obey the whole law (or you will be cursed, Galatians 3:10).
What is more, this tithing doctrine they teach isn't found in either the New or Old Testament. Tithing in the old testament does not match what these pastors preach - this unique tithe teaching is of their own invention.
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This is such an important subject that Cultwatch has a special website TithingDebate.com dedicated to setting Christians free from this fake doctrine. There are free books to download and articles to read. Make sure you read our article "Should you give? New Testament Giving Supported!", because Cultwatch is not anti-giving. If you think tithing is for Christians today, then you need to read TithingDebate.com
Tip: If you are struggling to feed your family or buy them clothes, then understand that you do not need to give to the church. You can still do so if you choose, but you should not feel under compulsion since your family is more important. Also understand that if you are poor then that does not mean God is cursing you, or that you have done something wrong; this is an erroneous teaching these greedy men promote to guilt you into giving. Remember, your duty is to your family first. If anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for his immediate family, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever. - 1 Timothy 5:8
Tip: Churches that push this erroneous tithing doctrine will often try to enforce tithing via written agreements (called covenants), and also by monitoring what people give (so they can compel them to give more if they are not meeting the ten percent target). First, grasp that these "covenants" are illegitimate and not worth the paper they are printed on, because they contain false doctrine (like tithing) and set up the pastors as a false authority over you. God would not be party to a covenant that contains falsehoods, therefore God was not party to the covenant you were pressured to sign, therefore you are free from this burden. It is as if you never signed it. Second, recording what you give and using that information to pressure you to give more is wrong, the Bible implies that our giving is best done in secret so that only we and God know what we gave. Don't go to a church where they monitor what you give. (note: some churches voluntarily let you record what you have given via a numbered envelope system for tax purposes. Done correctly, no one in the church will know what you gave. There is nothing wrong with this kind of recording.)
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Your Counter Strategy: Stop giving to that church until they change their ways. That doesn't mean to stop giving to Godly works, we would encourage you to give as the Holy Spirit prompts you and as you decide. But it is valid to protest false doctrine by refusing to fund the system that promotes that false doctrine.
The enemy that divided the house of the Lord is : money. As long money is needed , demanded, persuaded from members, this division will continued to persist. There are many questions and non consistency in managing the church fund and sp and his deacons ,pastors should come clean.
YOU CAN ASSOCIATE WITH THESE AND PLAY SAFE. I believe they are threatened of their livelihood. I believe 400 families and silent majority will rise up to start a revolving funds for their welfare if they will stand up, declare and open up.
As Bamboo C said, some have seen the manipulations ..they MUST DECLARE AND OPEN UP THESE LAYERS OF DIRT.
the end
To CHEERFUL GIVER,
Please ask PG if he tithes?
He evade income tax !!!!!
IRB raided his office !!!!!
He is paying the fine !!!!!
He is robbing the Goverment !!!!!
Will PG not rob God too !!!!!
this is serious, chinese saying shit can simply eat..words cannot simply talk! t t g should confirm such "rare incident" before publishing..this could be abetment bad mouth defaming a tan sri s p? date, case , file number?
Dear 'Tithing,'
Surely the Lord knows this, for NOTHING escapes His eyes, & if PG does not repent, he can't escape judgment. I find comfort in knowing our God is a God of justice and righteousness, and true justice will hold sway, rest assured. I am no fan of PG's, in fact I was one of those who experienced his LOTT treatment, but I just want to uphold God's Word in the New Testament that exhorts us to give generously to the Lord's work. God is faithful & our love for Him as seen in our giving will not be in vain.
"It is more blessed to give than to receive ," is also found in the NT, Acts 20:35, KJV.
The Lord bless you!
To genesispassion,
We are aware of the fact that someone has lodged a tax evasion complaint against PG sometime last year.
As a result, the IRD officers raided PG's office in Perdana and his house sometime last year, after the complaint was lodged.
As we believe the matter is still being investigated by the IRD office, we shall not make any further comments on this.
Have a blessed weekend and tomorrow being Father's Day, we take this oportunity to wish all fathers, HAPPY FATHER'S DAY.
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