When Dr Lum shared the story of what happened to Pastor Phil Stevenson when he came to minister at one of our Calvary youth camps several years ago, many Calvarites were shocked at the victimization dished out by our Church on Pastor Phil. As you may recall the story, at the end of the youth camp, a love offering was collected from the youth for Pastor Phil. Many young people gave sacrificially because they were very blessed by his ministry at the camp. However, the love offering collected was never given to him, instead, it was kept by the Church. One of our associate Pastors apparently explained to Pastor Phil that the money would be used to offset his airfare here, which was “expensive”.
This ill-treatment of an invited speaker is despicable, no matter how hard, our pastors and deacons may try to explain their actions. But it is consistent with how our Church treats those they can take advantage of, whether they are visiting pastors, Calvary staff or mission workers. On the other hand, our Church is generous to those who can benefit them. How else can one explain why our Senior Pastor and Deacons gave US$10,000 to Dr Guynes for coming to chair our EGM last year and why our Senior Pastor gave S$10,000 to Rev Robert Lim for preaching in our Church for one Sunday?
As you all know, that EGM was held to “clear” all the allegations against Senior Pastor and Dr Guynes chaired and guided the EGM accordingly. As for Rev Robert, his Church was subsequently purported to have given Senior Pastor a brand new Volvo costing more than RM300,000 and Senior Pastor’s wife a brand new Honda Civic. It may be something our MACC may want to look at, if they come across our blog.
Back to Pastor Phil. Several months ago, a few core TTG brothers & sisters felt that what happened to Pastor Phil ought to be put right and so, collectively they sent a love gift to him. He responded through the email as follows:
“I am writing this email to express my thanks and heart felt love to all those who put together to give the financial gift I received when --- and--- came to Perth recently, I was humbled to see such an act of generosity and honor for the preaching of the Word of God amongst the youth of Calvary, and it appears to me that there are many sincere and wonderful people at Calvary church to whom I would love you to pass on my thanks and love.
Let me take a few moments to let you know how I have dealt with what happened at the camp. When I was told that I would not be receiving the love offering I was shocked as you can imagine. Mostly because they had told the kids that it would be given to me and I know many would have given sacrificially towards this financial gift. But God used this to help me check my motives. Why did I go and speak places? Was the gospel free as far as I was concerned? I decided that my motives were to be to bless the kids at Calvary or anywhere in fact and I should expect no financial reward for this, So a lot of good came from a bad situation as you can see.
Then a few weeks ago --- and --- arrive with your card and the financial gift that was taken up by yourself and some of the church members. I was deeply touched by this selfless act, I felt honored for the small part I played in the camp those few years ago and I was reminded that there are God's people everywhere who just want to act with integrity and righteousness. I will be telling our church community of how you have blessed me. The money by the way came at just the right time and with the exchange rate I know this is not a small amount in malaysian terms.”
Pastor Phil also shared the story of this bad experience and how God turned the situation
around into something good, in one of his sermons in his Church.
Click on the link below to hear the full sermon entitled “'3 targets of Christian Generosity' dated 19 May 2009.
http://www.perthcic.com/podcast.php
God is Always Good in All Situations To All Who Love Him and are Called By HIM!
For your easy listening, we have downloaded the sermon here. Ps Phil's sharing of his experience in Calvary is about 33mins 40 seconds into his sermon.
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Seeking Truth, Transparency & Godly Governance in Calvary Church, Kuala Lumpur
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Call to Calvarites
It's time to unite in our common quest for truth, transparency, good governance, stewardship and accountability in our broken and hurting Church. Until the above goals are achieved, this is what you can do:-
1. Stop Giving to Calvary. If you wish, you may re-direct your giving to worthy Christian organisations, Bible schools, orphanages, smaller churches which are struggling financially or non-church sponsored missionaries or missions work. However, if God specifically tells you to give to Calvary or you are uncomfortable about not giving to Calvary, please continue to do so.
2. Pray. Pray for God's forgivessness and cleansing of our Church as a body for all the injustice, unethical practices and bad stewardship that we have condoned or been blind to over the years. Pray against the principalities and evil forces that have crowded the minds and vision of our leaders. Pray for unrighteousness, covetousness and pride to be removed from our midst. Pray for God's truth and sovereign will to fall afresh on our Church. Pray for His healing for our broken hurting Church.
1. Stop Giving to Calvary. If you wish, you may re-direct your giving to worthy Christian organisations, Bible schools, orphanages, smaller churches which are struggling financially or non-church sponsored missionaries or missions work. However, if God specifically tells you to give to Calvary or you are uncomfortable about not giving to Calvary, please continue to do so.
2. Pray. Pray for God's forgivessness and cleansing of our Church as a body for all the injustice, unethical practices and bad stewardship that we have condoned or been blind to over the years. Pray against the principalities and evil forces that have crowded the minds and vision of our leaders. Pray for unrighteousness, covetousness and pride to be removed from our midst. Pray for God's truth and sovereign will to fall afresh on our Church. Pray for His healing for our broken hurting Church.
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The primary purpose is to keep members and regular worshippers of Calvary Church, KL updated on issues and concerns in our church today and to provide a platform for them to express their views, comments and concerns and provide feedback on matters raised, so that God's will and purposes for our lives and for our church may be fulfilled to His glory.
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THIS IS PART 1 OF AN INTERVIEW BY CALVARY TODAY WITH DR LUM. THE FINAL PART 2 WILL BE PUBLISHED LATER . CT: Firstly, we would like to congra...
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Calvary International Ministries (CIM), the personal ministry of our Senior Pastor (SP), Rev Prince Guneratnam is to be de-registered by th...
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Calvary enters JV with property developer After banks reject loans to CCC At the recent EGM of Calvary Church held on 23 September 2011...
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For many years, Senior Pastor Prince Guneratnam (PG) has boasted to the world that Calvary Church has given away millions of ringgit to Miss...
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At the recently convened Calvary Church EGM on 16 Dec 2011, the Board of Deacons sought the approval of the members to vary the terms of the...
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Dr Lum Siew Heng , a deacon highly respected by the TTG group, has taken that heroic step and submitted his resignation from the Board of De...
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As the Calvary Convention Centre (CCC) gets built, the pressure on Senior Pastor Prince Guneratnam (PG) and his Deacons to raise the money...
Healing For Our Land Revival Meetings
Watch a Review clip on A Review of the Healing For Our Land Revival Meetings
or directly from You Tube Healing For Our Land (M4J)
Daily Bible Verse
Articles of Interest
Berita Calvary
Read interesting articles and testimonies in : BERITA CALVARY
The Bario Revival 1973 Revisited. A must read for all Malaysian Christians.
The Bakalalan Revival 1984 Revisited. Another must read for all Malaysian Christians.
Read about the church which borrowed money to build and now has to file for bankruptcy. US Church Files for Bankruptcy
TTG in the newspapers again. "Christian & Politics".
How Pastors Get Rich
Borrow to Build
"The Anointing" Revisited
Protection From Deception
TTG in the newspapers again. "Christian & Politics".
How Pastors Get Rich
Borrow to Build
"The Anointing" Revisited
Protection From Deception
Recommended Blogs
Christians and Law Suits
Our Pastors often quote 1 Corinthians 6 as a basis that Christians should not pursue legal action against one another. We must understand the context of Apostle Paul's admonishment and not simply quote the passage out of context. What does other Christian leaders say?
1. CHRISTIAN LAWSUIT by Dr. Paul Nah
2. CHRISTIAN INVOLVEMENT IN LAW SUITS by Dr. George Wood, the General Superintendent of AG, USA
3. WHEN IT'S RIGHT TO GO TO COURT by Doug Goins.
1. CHRISTIAN LAWSUIT by Dr. Paul Nah
2. CHRISTIAN INVOLVEMENT IN LAW SUITS by Dr. George Wood, the General Superintendent of AG, USA
3. WHEN IT'S RIGHT TO GO TO COURT by Doug Goins.
Letters to TTG/CT
Read the following letters and e-mails sent in by people who have identified themselves to us. The contents of their letters are relevant to our current issues, although we may not be in total agreement with the views presented by them. However, not all e-mails to us will be published.
1. A letter from an AOG Pastor
2. A letter from a former Regular Worshipper
3. A letter from a Calvarite
4. An ex-Calvarite comments on CCC
5. Axed for attending TTG meeting
6. Letters from Overseas
1. A letter from an AOG Pastor
2. A letter from a former Regular Worshipper
3. A letter from a Calvarite
4. An ex-Calvarite comments on CCC
5. Axed for attending TTG meeting
6. Letters from Overseas
Feelin' Generous?
Make a REAL difference in someone's life in 2011. Here's some worthy causes which you may want to bless and contribute to. Click on the links below:
1. Malaysian Christian Association For Relief (M'sian CARE)
2. FunGates SuperFlow Foundation
3. World Vision Malaysia
4. Asian Outreach (M) Bhd.
Malaysian Office: +603 7876 6789
The above charities are not associated with CT or the TTG group in any way but are examples of good Christian works which deserve our support and prayers.
1. Malaysian Christian Association For Relief (M'sian CARE)
2. FunGates SuperFlow Foundation
3. World Vision Malaysia
4. Asian Outreach (M) Bhd.
Malaysian Office: +603 7876 6789
The above charities are not associated with CT or the TTG group in any way but are examples of good Christian works which deserve our support and prayers.
Christian Publications
To get FREE copies of "OUR DAILY BREAD" write to : malaysia@rbc.org or visit : rbc ministries
To purchase books by rbc ministries ONLINE : Discovery House Distribution
ASIAN BEACON, a contemporary Christian magazine, has been impacting lives in Malaysia for the past 40 years. It is an important tool for education, exhortation and evangelism as it is one of the few Christian magazines in Malaysia and Singapore with a publishing permit.
ASIAN BEACON, a contemporary Christian magazine, has been impacting lives in Malaysia for the past 40 years. It is an important tool for education, exhortation and evangelism as it is one of the few Christian magazines in Malaysia and Singapore with a publishing permit.
Visit Wah Lok's website for a list of Malaysian Authors : Tabernacle Music
Recommended Reading
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35 comments:
Hello Steven Kum, I hope you are reading the email reply from Pastor Phil. Remember what you said during the EGM/AGM about this issue??? Walk the talk please. Sadly I find it very difficult to address all the pastors in Calvary Church as Pastors anymore.
TTG contributors (to Pastor Phil), you did the right thing at the right time. God bless all of you.
How to let my children attend youth meetings in CC anymore?
You (TTG) light up my day. God is faithful and I am so please to hear and know their are Chirstian Bro.& Sis who still care for the speaker.
God Bless all of you for your good testimony. Glory to God
Yes all glory to God who provides for all our needs so that in turn we can bless others who are in need.
TTG, you are a good example for us to follow. We need to follow the teaching of the Lord Jesus -to bless those who are rightfully deserved, to care for the widows, the orphanages, the poor and the needy, etc.
PG only care to reach the high strata societies of India - his eyes are only on the $$$$$. Even the very poor in Malaysia he cannot see
If only our BOD had understood Acts 6.
Extracted directly from “The Daily Devotional Commentary” by Lawrence O. Richards.
September 16, Reading 259. Acts 6-7.
Understanding the text:
Acts 6:2. How fascinating. The “pastoral staff” didn’t take responsibility for distributing the food. Instead the Apostles led the congregation to solve the problem themselves.
Note these principles. You can use them in church – and at home! First, there was no attempt to blame. We need to find solutions, not fault! Second, the leaders suggested a way the congregation might resolve the problem. Again, the leaders didn’t take this responsibility on themselves. The solution could be found by the people involved. Third, the leaders gave the congregation full authority. The people involved, who knew the situation best, were given freedom to correct any injustice.
Each step here is important. In church, in families, and in society at large, we tend to be paternalistic. Appointed or elected leaders take on more and more responsibility, and give less and less authority to those affected by the social or personal problems. Acts 6 shows us a better way. That way may not work well in society. But it will work in the Christian church, and in the family where Christ dwells.
Devotional
How to Put Down Troublemakers (Acts 6:1-7)
They could have handled it differently. I mean, when people complain, you’ve got to be firm. You tell ‘em, “listen. I’m in charge here. If you have a complaint, put it in writing. I’ll get to it as soon as I can.”
And then you drop the complaint in the circular file (wastebasket, to the uninitiated) and go on about your business.
I suppose that’s one way to put down troublemakers. Or ignore them. Or lose their files. Or make promises you don’t expect to keep. Or multiply forms, till it’s too much work to fill them out.
The Jerusalem church, though, had a little different approach. When Grecian Jewish Christians complained that their widows weren’t getting a fair share when food was distributed, the church listened to them. Then the Apostles got the whole church together, suggested they choose seven known “to be full of the Spirit and wisdom,” and let the seven solve the problem. What’s fascinating is that every one of the seven that the church chose had a Greek name. What does that mean? Simply, that the church, instead of slapping on the label “troublemakers,” gave the people who experienced an injustice the power to correct it.
In the process the Hebrew Christians made themselves vulnerable. They surrendered their rights to those who had felt, and had been, victims of their injustice.
How did the Jerusalem church put down troublemakers? It didn’t. It lifted the troublemakers up, and gave them the authority they needed to solve the problem they complained about.
Can this radical kind of solution work in Christianity today? Yes, if we keep three things in mind. (1) Don’t view people with problems as troublemakers. Take their concerns seriously. (2) Don’t be defensive, or try to fix blame for past failings. The past isn’t the issue. The problem is. And (3), don’t be paternalistic. Don’t think that “leaders” are the only folks who can solve problems. Select wise, Spirit-filled folk who know the problem firsthand, and give them the authority they need to solve it.
The Holy Spirit really is resident in the church. We exhibit trust in God when we “put down” our troublemakers, by lifting them up.
There have been too many incidents of pastors and BOD covering up wrongs of PG and BOD. Ultimately the truth will catch up on the perpetrators of lies and wrongdoings.
The truth will be exposed in stages...God knows the secrets of all men.
We shall pray for the truth to be revealed soonest and that CC leadership will humbly come before God to put things right before all. May honesty and truthfulness be restored in CC again.
wow!! powerful sermon, Ps Phil! SK, u should be ashamed of yrself...stealing from the poor!!!!
Appreciate TTG could 'recompense' the wrong done to Pastor Phil.....
What about "the robbing of the Indonesians of the offering collected specially for the tsunami victims"?
When confronted PG 'explained' through Edward the Indonesians no longer needed the funds so the funds could not be given away.
I do not know about you but I cannot 'buy' his explanation. I cannot believe the tsumani victims would reject help to rebuild their lives.
The least PG or Missions Director could do is come before the church, tell us the Indonesians no longer needed the money collected and ask our permissions to give to other needs.
He did none of this BUT kept the money himself under his PERSONAL MINISTRY CIM. So our contribution went to PG - it is not heart-sickening?
My subsequent action:
Since I no longer trust PG, BOD etc, I give directly to those in need. May I encourage you to do the same?
To "Troublemaker". That is a great thot and a good solution. Do you think that PG & BOD will dare allow the ppl who they consider troublemakers take control? From what i see, they are not interested in solution. They just want to get easy money from the public without having to sacrifice energy to work for the money. SP go to his office, order his servants around, his whole family until grandchildren no need to lift a finger but use mouth to get their desires done for them by church staff & members. You think they want solution?
Solution means end of his dynasty. It means, who no work get no pay, including his children and coming soon grandchildren. So you think he wants solution?
We want solution and thanks for the good advise, many pastors & deacons, elders and leaders of other churches can learn from this.
But sadly, cc leadership is not interested in solution.
They just interested to squeeze people for RM26 million this year and another RM41 million in the next 2 yrs (2010 & 2011). What are they doing about it? Expect a miracle.
AMENDMENT TO CALVARITE POSTING ON 18/9/09 AT 7.42 AM
Please accept my apologies - the offering collected was not for tsunami but for Indonesian earthquake 2006.
The other aspects are correct to my understanding.
MIRACLES or MOTHER of ALL DECEIT?
Did you read the what was written in the the latest
CCC Building Fund Up-date? Here is what was written:
“ We thank God for the RM 7.1 Million PLEDGES. We believe they represent 7.1 Million MIRACLES which the Lord will bring to pass.
Up to Jul 09, we have received *709,000 MIRACLES …”
How could PG & BOD & Ass. Pas even dare to TWIST the meaning of Miracle to suit their desperate trickery to hook-wink members and others to give to CCC fund!
Since when can mere pledges be ‘PRONOUNCED’ as, or = Miracles? And the *amount of Rm709,000 be CONVERTED to represent 709,000 Miracles?!!!
Speaking of exaggeration, and deception, PG is a master indeed.
Before he used to deal the ‘Faith & Blessing’ card to the members to put the fear of God in them to do what they want. Now it’s “ EXPECT Miracle” chant from PG & BOD. wow!
Let’s hope no one get fooled by this sort of nonsense misuse of what God’s Miracle truly is. CCC is simply PG’s ambition that has gone horribly wrong. Period.
hello man-made. where can we get a copy or read online the ccc building fund update? wanna read it for ourselves the craziness that keeps getting worse!
Dear brothers and sisters in Christ,
I was once a Calvarite and a youth leader in CA's. Due to unforseen circumstances, I no longer attend this church.
Ps. Phil has been such a blessing to many of the youths in Calvary Youth Camp 2004. I could still remember how spirit-filled he was and he encouraged me to go all out serving for God. In fact, we had a small reunion with him couple of months back.
I always believe that God allows certain things to happen for a reason. For what reason, I dont know. But I know, his reasons are for our best interests.
Yes, it was terrible that Ps Phil had such treatment and it was really embarassing to meet him again with the stuffs that my church did. It was terrible. I cried.
But we gotta let it go.
We have done all we could. From persuading, to talking to advising. Is it worth getting all worked up and risk the health of your spiritual life?
Clearly, the church is not going to read the comments to this blog and do something to rectify the problem. Just let it go. The battle is no longer ours.It's now God's.
2 Thess 1:6 - God is just.
and He will be. Allow Jesus to come in and restore. What can we do?
We pray. We pray with love. That's how God has called us to be.
Really, there's no point in digging all these crap of what CC is doing. We all know. We just gotta move on. Or else, we would remain very bitter in our hearts.
In God's timing, He will do what He needs to do.
Meanwhile, we should watch our actions and speech that it may reflect God's glory. Do you think Jesus would write comments like these? Or would Jesus handle the problems like how you guys do?
Let's really pursue God. Everything will fall into pieces in God's timing.
Members of CC once used to think that CCC was God's vision for CC BUT since last year we have been rudely awakened to realise that it is a human act and ambitious plan of PG, which is strongly supported by BOD at all expense.
Any concerns expressed by members are branded as faithless thinking of members and because of our "faithlessness" we will not be blessed by God!
Now in desperation CC leadership is branching out to the general public to get financial support.
How sad if we look at other churches with visions of building their new church buildings, during similar time when CCC was initiated their plans have long been realised and their congregations have long been worshipping there.
BUT for CC what has happened.... basic structure still hanging half way and still having shell and core plans?
How long are members and the public going to be bluffed?
Hi "a young person"
Good that you are still serving faithfully. If Ps Phil knows this he will be very happy that he had a little part to play in your Christian life.
As an adult and a parent, I don't agree with you saying, "Clearly, the church is not going to read the comments to this blog and do something to rectify the problem. Just let it go. The battle is no longer ours.It's now God's."
You see, we don't care if the church leaders read or not becoz it makes no difference anyway. But ppl blog their opinions, discoveries and the latest news here so that the "diaspora calvarites" are kept in touch with what is happening.
And then there may be more ppl like the person who wrote to CT - Why SP will not repent. This person say that he only discovered CT blog a few months ago. So I believe everyday, there are new ppl logging in and discovering that they are not alone.
SP and family, deacons and pastors, if they sin against God then their sins must be made known to others so that they can repent and if they don't, others will not fall into their trickery.
God loved David in the OT but yet the Bible recorded all his sins with Bathsheba and God made sure every wrong thing King David did, we know about it and learn from his mistakes.
So don't be so innocent minded to think that what is happening to calvary and all the comments ppl blog here is not from God. The only things not from God is making ppl give up their hard earned money to serve a beautiful building. The ppl's hard earned money is to help the poor, the aliens so that they can experience God's goodness, as what Ps Phil said.
We must stand up and speak out for the truth and what is right. We cannot just remain silent and let CC leadership continue to mislead many others who have a genuine heart and just want to worship God... We cannot condone the wrongs and let the CC leadership pretend everything is fine.
Sure there is a price to pay when we speak out for the truth. We have been "branded and persecuted for the stand and position that we have taken that truth, righteousness, transparency and good governance be restored in CC".
The early Christians were also persecuted for the stand they took because they were radical and the minority group. What is important is that we must check ourselves against God's Word and we are led by His Word to do what is right in His sight and before men.
The rest of church members can also weigh and evaluate what has been done. Further the actions and purposes can stand the test of time. Surely, it is not by chance that matters have gone so far BUT CC leadership have recognized Church will no longer be the same.
WHY? Shouldn't CC pastors and BOD do something for the good of the Body themselves and initiate the change and not at the expense of a small minority group?
Until today pastors and BOD still want to look good, act high and mighty and refuse to repent and to initiate change for the good of all!
Look at the aggression and arrogance at AGM against members who like to speak up. Instead they brand concerned members for being rude and disrespectful!
WHY all the blindness? Where is godliness and fear of God? The show still must go on...
CCC has to be built at all expense even if it has to be shell and core!
BUT GOD...
Matthew 3:10 "The axe is already at the root of the trees ..."
We always pondered, how would the Lord put right the present situation at Calvary Church.
What are the options out there to correct the present "wrong"?
Who are the stakeholders that form the tipping-point and can change the present situation? Based on the best of our knowledge there are three major stakeholders that form the tipping-point!
First there is the Board of Deacons. Obviously, they hold power because they are the once who decide on the selection of the Senior Pastor of the church (to some extent).
Next there are the Senior Pastors, the associated pastors and other church workers.
And lastly, the congregation - the majority but with little power as that power has been transferred to the BOD and Senior Pastors.
To set a possible scenario that can be a tipping point, we make the following assumptions.
1. No legal actions - Although we know that this is a possible option, nevertheless, as intercessors, this option is not open for us as it will rob God of His glory. However, we acknowledge that this option may be open for others if they are guided by the Lord and Christian legal experts.
2. The majority of the associated pastors and church workers do not subscribe to events within Calvary Church but chose to be 'silent' out of fear. However, they are ready to correct the wrong at the 'kairos time'.
3. We assume there are three categories of people within the congregation. Those who fully support the present leadership, those that oppose and those that are not sure. However, they are matured enough to make the right decision at the 'kairos time'.
4. Lastly, the majority of the BOD support the present leadership in the church and not easily persuaded to see the light short of a miracle.
SO NOW WHERE SHOULD THE AXE FALL TO CORRECT THE SITUATION.
Personally, we believe only a demonstration of the Lord's power can cause all the three stakeholders to tip in favour of positive changes within Calvary Church. It must be an event that will cause all to unit and pay attention to the Lord enthroned!
We are reminded of the 10 plagues of Egypt. All but the 10th and last plague that finally changed the situation. We hope that it does not have to come to that, but if all else fails, it may be the event that will cause a tipping point and unit the BOD, leadership and the congregation. In short, we expect a miracle, even so a judgement of the Lord to cause all the stakeholders to unit at the 'kairos time' and bring Glory to the house of God. In spite of the present situation and apparent lack of solution on the horizon... BUT GOD!
Ever notice PG, BOD & Ass.Pas only tell you what THEY WANT you to know concerning CCC?
The info are IRREGULAR, Bits & Pieces and certainly
never the FULL picture at any one time!
eg: What is the REAL financial situation?
What will the Bank Interest be to service the
RM35M (?) loan?
What is the actual COMPROMISED
Finishing/materials etc now as opposed to the
'BEST IN THE WORLD' when it was originally
presented to congregation?
WHEN will it be completed? ( the promised date
has been postponed) WHY?
What will it cost to maintain the White elephant?
( case in point -Calvary Land cost RM500,000 per
annum)!
What will happen to CC, now that it is highly
probable there is no money to finance it?
ETC, ETC, ETC
Why would anyone still want to give when there is NO ACCOUNTABILITY from PG & BOD.
Today’s reading from The Daily Devotional Commentary by Lawrence O. Richards.
September 22 Reading 265 Jerusalem Council Acts 15
Is the CCC (the design, scale and the cost) from the Holy Spirit? Is the way the BOD and PG dealing with the crisis of the Holy Spirit? Today’s reading gives food for thought.
“It seems good to the Holy Spirit” Acts 15:28
The Jerusalem Council seemed so sure that they had the mind of the Spirit. How did they know?
First, they had gathered the leaders together, being careful to communicate the process to the “whole church” (vv. 4, 22).
Different viewpoints were openly expressed (v. 5).
They went through a process of “much discussion” (v. 7).
They tried to discern God’s will by recognizing what God had taught them through His past working among them (vv. 8, 12).
They compared this with scripture (v. 15).
And they reached a consensus, expressed by James (v. 19).
The achievement of a consensus after working through this careful process was the Spirit’s stamp of approval.
Churches would do well to adopt the same approach to problem-solving. Our goal is the same as that of the first church Council: not to make the best decision we can, but to discern what God’s will is.
After listening to Ps Phil's message I am now very sure and convinced that Dr Lum was telling the truth all the while. At first I cannot guarantee and know for sure who to really believe, now I hear with my own ears what Ps Phil himself say. The church always tell us not to believe the TTG people and Dr Lum, how can they do that? Thanks to you all for putting this out especially Ps Phil's message.
My tears came out when I heard Ps Phil was so touched when he received the money in the envelop. He sound like he was going to cry. I wish that those who contributed that time have told me about it because I also want to contribute. Anyway, you TTG people have been a blssing to Ps Phil and his message is a blessing to me. Thank you Jesus.
The message and sharing by Pastor Phil confirmed that what TTG is doing is to stand up for the truth. TTG has no hidden agenda at all but CC leadership have an agenda that is to shake and undermine TTG's integrity.... so that members' will lose confidence in TTG.
Then members will ask:" So what can TTG do? Nothing is happening? They are just troublemakers. What can they achieve, except to cause harm to the name of Christianity? Better give up..."
Nevertheless, Concerned Members can be encouraged that God is doing far greater things in the spiritual realm, in His time God will bring all things to a realization... the battle is the Lord's. God will cleanse the Church. Seemingly now CC leaders are having their way BUT God shall not be mocked. Truth and righteousness shall prevail.
Once CC was a growing and vibrant church but over the years the CC leadership have comprised their identity and values. Instead of following godly standards and conduct, they adopted the ways of the world. Hence, CC has lost its distinctiveness as the salt and light of the world. It has ceased to influence the world and is looked upon as having failed in its testimony to believers and nonbelievers too.
It is a warning sign to all other churches too.
During the AGM, I remember so clearly that SK without a blink in the eye, said that during the youth camp, no LOVE OFFERING was collected for Ps Phil. SK said that he did not use the word 'offering' and loosely apologise. But everybody who were there at the camp, including Ps Phil himself, had the impression that the money collected was a love offering. CC is always very good at twisting words and using vague statements so that if people question, they will say it is a matter of perception or 'it's your own opinion'. Liars they are! And yet there are people who still believe them. Wake up everybody!
It is all a strategy of lies and sheer deception and these people are doing it better each time! Sad to say even the "supposedly trustworthy" pastors and professional lay leaders have been hoodwinked. They themselves are passing on the lies for truth to innocent thinking members.
There is hope though, because when we sincerely seek God and the truth and pray unceasingly and when the Holy Spirit stirs up the spirit within... the chains shall be broken, the scales of blindness removed and the truth shall be revealed!
There is still hope! This sermon will open the eyes and hearts of many members and worshippers...
I am a young person who attended the youth camp where Ps Phil preached. He blessed me so much and I am very shocked at what is being revealed. I feel like the church has stolen from us, those who really gave an offering for Ps Phil. I also went for the following year's youth camp where PG spoke. I remember an offering being collected for PG as well. I did not understand why PG needed an offering from his own youth group, who are mostly just students without much money. And if PG really took the offering for himself, he should be ashamed! How could he do that when Ps Phil came all the way from Australia and not get a cent?
Dear ex-youth camper,
Thank you for your sincere personal sharing. Many are not aware of what actually have been happening in Youth Camps on the collection of offerings etc, especially the adults who are not involved in CC Youth Ministry.
This really confirms the deception and coveteousness of certain CC leaders and it is approved by BOD. BOD even openly allowed and endorsed the "extravagant monetary gifts" to SP and SAP out of church funds which are meant for the work of the Lord and furtherance of God's kingdom. On top of that pastors also openly ask for offering from the youth who are not income earning yet... all to satisfy the love of money.
WHEREAS Pastor Phil says the Gospel should be FREE! And truly that should be the way, but CC leadership make it a form of business!
The apostle Paul was a tent maker also so that he would not be a financial burden to his people; but what about in CC? It is the opposite the SP and family are a huge financial heavyweight and burden to the church but they will never admit it and BOD say they deserve it.
When BOD effected the big monetary gifts they say: "We have all the powers under the Constitution and you members you have absolutely no say!"
The truth is becoming more and more apparent.
I have been attending DUMC for quite a while. So far, there is only one offering collected. There is no Faith Promise, Mission Offering (no doubt Mission work is very active and effective), and any other types of offerings that CC has. Yet the church is growing tremendously and God's blessing is flowing continually. I believe it is the Lord who is working miracle of blessing, both numerically and financially, and not the $$$ that is working miracle.
What are PG’s Priorities?
By now, it is crystal clear that PG dislikes and resists questions from the Congregation. All these years (over 4 decades), until concerned members of the TTG Cause came along, that is,
PG had it easy running CC with a free hand—anyhow and anyway he likes--No questions asked by DOCILE BOD & members alike--to his joy!
So, it’s no surprise how PG has created many channels of “INCOME’ to feed himself & family big time. It’s utterly shameful, he dares even
to take a love offering at CC Youth Camp. ( at every opportunity—birthday, Christmas too.)
The Final Analysis:
PG is interested in $$$, Power & Status--Everything else is secondary.
Hello Thinker
That is a very accurate analysis... this is church politics. BOD are vying for approval and recognition from CEO of Calvary Church so that is why they will even put their reputation and integrity on the line to cover up for the CEO.
You can see the similarity with secular leadership. Jesus said that in the world leaders seek to be served and to lord it over others but Jesus came to serve and to be the ultimate sacrifice for us.
Didn't the Lord remind us to be a servant to others by His example and didn't He demonstrate it at the Last Supper?
How about SP, pastors and BOD in CC? One really wonders whether their values are from the worldly kingdom or God's kingdom? Aren't they showing the worldly example rather than Christ's example to us?
The church which has compromised its identity and values, will have lost its distinctiveness as the one called by God for holy and righteousness conduct.
The salt which has lost its taste will be useless and will just be trampled on foot.
Thank you all of you who contributed to the love offering for Ps. Phil. I did not know a love offering was being taken for him otherwise I would have contributed to it too.I only found out after it had been collected for him. Thank you for honouring him. I know that God will honour you for that. I was one of the many youth at that camp that was tremendously blessed by Ps. Phil.Until today (6 years since that camp), what he taught us has stuck with me and has definitely been an integral part of my growing relationship with God.
It saddened me when I heard that our church acted that way and I am greatly disappointed at the church leadership who did that. You didn't just steal from Ps. Phil, you stole from us too. God is a just God and He sees everything. He will hold you accountable for your actions.
HIDE but FOUND OUT!
PG & his wife, never in their wildest imagination ever thought they were be found out--all the deeds they
did to enrich themselves and the 2-faced, and double lifestyle--now opened like a can of worms!
Alas, decades old acts are surfacing one by one, from CC Book shop, Free Cars, CIM to undeclared $$$ Love offerings & perks to the 'latest' being the 6 year old incident which happened to pastor Phil.
Concerned members of TTG CAUSE had persevered in the face of all the 'name labelling' by PG, BOD, assoc pastors & their mislead followers, are now vindicated . Indeed, the TRUTH is revealed-- Praise the Lord!
I never knew that my good friend is one of the pioneers of CC. While having lunch with her yesterday, she relates to me how CC was built through hard work and sweat. One day, she decided to visit CC after having left her beloved church for 30 years hoping to be refreshed. But to her horror and disappointment, she still hear the same old message about $$$ that was preached by PG 30 years ago. She left CC without being ministered to. I told her God's anointing is no more in CC. PG has his sermons all piled up and he just pull out any old sermon to preach (of course without God's anointing). So what can you expect? PG thot people might have forgotten what he had preached years ago. I also heard stale sermon before.
'STALE SERMON' 's friend is commendable for being so so sharp & alert to realise she "still hear the same old message about $$$ that was preached by PG 30 years ago."
Truth be told, those who have been members for anything over 10 years all know PG just 'RECYCLE' his sermons with a twist or change of Title!
Alas, but those who are 'NEW' to CC & Visitors can never tell--but be impressed by his smooth preaching. ( The *"old faithfuls" have seen through PG, albeit just recently!-- Any wonder, Why PG, Assoc Pators & BOD are all so eager to see them to leave CC )
It is understood that those *Concerned Members
are afraid many more will be deceived by PG,and hence they persevere to expose him true colours.
Thanks to this BLOG,too, many get to testify or share their experience for the benefit of those who are ignorant and those being hook-winked.
Keep up the dissemination of truth. Kudos CT!
Dear" Stale Sermon, No God's Anointing", It is not fair to say that "God's anointing is no more in CC". God's anointing is present to those who speaks with an intent to do His will without any personal gains. I believe there are still pastors in CC who are anointed and we are still being fed with His daily bread.
I am also not comfortable when any pastor takes any opportunity to talk about giving money, even sometimes it has nothing to do with the "real" message. But lately, I can see a change in the sermons and they are more edifying to the spirit.
"During the AGM, I remember so clearly that SK without a blink in the eye, said that during the youth camp, no LOVE OFFERING was collected for Ps Phil. SK said that he did not use the word 'offering' and loosely apologise"
I am just wondering, if SK did not use the word offering when the money was collected during Ps Phil youth camp, then WHY would he need to explain to Ps Phil that money collected will not be given to him?
I mean, if all along the intention is for some other purpose, there's really no need to explain to Ps Phil.
Unless SK is willing to stand up and state that the conversation with Ps Phil did not happen at all, as alleged in Ps Phil's sermon, one can easily deduce that SK has all along been trying to cover up hir (their) ill intention. (I strongly recommend those who have not, to listen to Ps Phil's sermon. I can really feel my heart move by his words. Unfortunately when I listen to 'our' pastors(??) now, the only thing that move is my stomach (sick to my stomach that is).
I would really like to hear 'our' Pastors(??) say with conviction that from now on, they will do the work of God and will not take any offering (monetary or otherwise).
How's that for a change? Nahh.. too much of a sacrifice, even for God's work.
IFollowJesus
To "Still Have Anointing"
God can open the mouth of a donkey to speak. It does not indicate that the speaker is anointed.
Many in CC are genuinely "blind". They go to church every week and give their hard-earned money faithfully. Do you not think that Jesus, our Shepherd is grieved and wants to minister His neglected flock?
Have you experienced the awesome presence of GOD when you seek Him with all your heart, regardless of where you worship? I was in a very traditional church with little so-called charismatic anointing but just singing an old hymn brought me to tears because EVERY word meant something.
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