Calvary Today: Interesting Audio Clips from AGM

Monday, June 22, 2009

Interesting Audio Clips from AGM

Posted on 29/8/09 - Read the latest comments by Bamboo Conspiracy (Comment no 243). Click on "Comment" at the end of this Post and then click "NEWEST" and then scroll down to read the latest comments.

Click here to view the latest in You Tube : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0i4d_hEVis
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As requested by some members who were unable to attend the AGM last Friday and Saturday, we have decided to include here some extracts of the audio recording of the AGM so that you can understand the feelings and exasperation of members seeking for truth, transparency and Godly governance in our church during the Meeting. As the task of listening and editing the recording is a tedious process, we will be updating this post with new additions every now and then.

Please turn ON your SPEAKERS and click on 'PLAY' to listen.

The Meeting was scheduled to start at 7pm. The first 1.5 hours was spent on roll call, a sermon by SP, followed by Communion and then a short greeting by Pastor Guynes. The actual business meeting started at around 8.30pm, when the Meeting was handed over to the Resolution Chairman, Pastor Ronnie Chin.

Clip 1: In this first audio clip, you will notice that the Chairman has the tendency to give a mini "sermon" before and after each person speaks. You will also notice how bias his opinions are, and how one- sided his decision is and how legalistic his approach is, in acting as the Chaiman for our AGM.

Clip 2: (About 9pm) In this second audio clip, you will notice how the Chairman seems to be prolonging the proceedings by encouraging debates and objections to the Resolution.
Latest addition on motion to appoint SCRUTINEERS posted on 29.06.09. The additions includes the ridiculous scrutiny of SP's supporters for the proposed scrutineers, the "accidental" oversight of ushers, pastors & chairman when an associate member (SP's supporter) spoke out and the chairman disallowing a member to share his personal thoughts. This same rule was not applied by the chairman, when the Resolution to close blogs was called for later. (Clip 5)

Clip 3: (About 10.10pm) In this audio clip on Ratification of SP's appointment, you will notice the manner important decisions are made by the BOD, without due consideration of it's long term implication.

Clip 4: The first 7 minutes contains the Resolution for AG Council intervention. Notice only Robert, the proposer got to speak from the floor. Bro Robert is one of the original Charter members from Jalan Sayor back then. There was no open discussion. The rest is a collection of interesting dialogues taken from both days of the meetings. There was a lapse of about 1 hour in between the motion to complete all the Resolutions on saturday night @ 11pm and the final decision to adjourn @ 12 midnight, whereby the above resolution and the one to close blogs was carried out. At the end, "words from SP's mouth" is note worthy, whereby he instructed his "bouncers" to take their positions to be ready to "throw out" members who voiced out their emotions loudly. These are not the usual ushers but specially selected men.
Just added, the rights of the Associate Members (23:20 mins into clip).

Clip 5: In this clip, you will hear "hurt my feelings," "very disturbed," "an embarassment" but no "unconstitutional," or "violates church constitution" as basis of support for the Resolution to close blogs. It's all about "saving face". No consideration was given to the member's needs, rights and freedom to express themselves. The testimony of SP's supporters seeks to cast a bad light on other church pastors as being unfriendly and uncaring. This is not true as many who have left are now being "nursed" by other Pastors for their "hurts and wounds". Then the Church Constitution came back to play the next day when the Resolution for a new Constitution Review Committee was rejected.

Clip 6 - The final clip: In this clip you hear the Chairman & SP speak the same language, when reminding members to appreciate the priviledge of clarification given by them. It is not our right to speak so we must be grateful to them. We also want to pose the one million dollar question to the Resolution Chairman, "What has Manchester United got to do with issues brought out at our Church AGM?" Then in the later part, you will hear the saddest Q & A at the AGM 2009.

244 comments:

«Oldest ‹Older 1 – 200 of 244 Newer› Newest»

Pride Comes Before a Great Fall said...: The following quote from a famous Christian from the past (as found on Berita Calvary) best sum up PG's present situation.

"It was pride that changed angels into devils; it is humility that makes men as angels." St. Augustine.

Though we may not agree that PG (of past) was an angel but he was anointed & he did do alot for the Lord & for CC.

Unfortunately, pride has taken it's toll on PG (of present) who now thinks that CC belongs to him & he is the Towkay of CC; thus accounting for all his misdeeds & immoral actions which are unbecoming of a man of God.

PG, you blew it; you have lost your anointing. It's time for you to move on; don't wait for God to move you on, else PG2 & you kids * grandchildren may miss you then.; June 23, 2009 at 10:40 AM
ex-Calvarite oso said...: Hi Calvarites,

I left CC afew years ago. Afew months ago, me and another ex-Calvarite received a leaflet/flyer each, fr CC with a message from PG who signed off as “your friend and pastor”. It relates to raising funds for CCC. It sounded so corny, he should have been called Bozo (the clown).

Hello, when was he ever my ‘friend’ and he is certainly NOT my pastor. No shame...!

He has to stoop so low to raise funds for CCC. This goes to show that TOTT is really working..!! Good on you TTG and CT..!!; June 23, 2009 at 12:34 PM
Psalms 50 said...: This morning, the Holy Spirit led me to Psalms 50 where in v. 1-14, He declares that everything on earth is His and in v. 15 (which seems to be for those who are striving to restore Truth, Transparency and Godly Governance in CC) He promises that .......

15 “and call upon Me in the day of trouble; I will deliver you, and you will honor Me.”

whereas v. 16-23 seem to be for those pro-PG supporters, in particular BOD, APs and now RC, KY and other pastors in the AG Council and AG churches who choose to align themselves blindly with PG who has now been confirmed as a worshipper of mammon and promoting himself and NOT promoting God.

In 2007 with a Faith Promise budget of RM 220,000+ per month and actual collections of RM 4,261,598 i.e. RM 355,133 per month, ONLY a mere RM 60,208 i.e. RM 5,017 per month was given by CC to Missions & Evangelism whereas RM 200,000 i.e. RM 16,667 per month was quietly moved to PG’s personal ministry – CIM) .......

16 But to the wicked, God says: “What right have you to recite My laws or to take My covenant on your lips?

17 You hate My instruction and cast My words behind you.

18 When you see a thief, you join with him; you throw in your lot with adulterers.

19 You use your mouth for evil and harness your tongue to deceit.

20 You speak continually against your brother and slander your mother’s son.

21 These things you have done and I kept silent; you thought I was altogether like you. But I will rebuke you and accuse you to your face.

22 Consider this, you who forget God, or I will tear you to pieces, with none to rescue.

23 He who sacrifices thank offerings honors Me, and he prepares the way so that I may show him the salvation of God.”; June 23, 2009 at 12:48 PM
I really cry.. said...: yah..yah..what a fool, Mr Chairman..talk for so long as though that he is the member as well as the Chairman. He said it all. This is his not meeting, not the AGM somehow.; June 23, 2009 at 1:09 PM
Ex- Calvarite 2 said...: I was so disgusted with the way Ronnie Chin handled the AGM! How could he be so biased? As Assistant General Superintendent of AOG Malaysia he should have remained NEUTRAL!; June 23, 2009 at 2:43 PM
Anonymous said...: Very interesting to note that calvarites have woken up!!
Certainly hope you do something to the hypocrites who pluder in the name of God and run a Church like their fiefdom and business.; June 23, 2009 at 3:42 PM
When an "amen" provocative and not provocative said...: Play the 1st tape (chairman resolution) and listen carefully.

Was the chairperson there to ensure the meeting was conducted on a level-playing field basis or at chairperson's whims and fancies with some snide remarks.

After one quite unnecessary comment(sounding like he is a member speaking from floor), the chairperson encouraged the members present to respond with "somebody say "amen""

But when the sanctuary resonated with a strong "Amen" after a member has made a valid point, the chairperson immediately responded that in his chairmanship of meetings he would not allow cheering and shouting as he deemed it provocative. His call for "amen" is okay but the congregation's "amen" was judged provocative.

What a farce!!; June 23, 2009 at 3:59 PM
Proverbs 1.22 said...: Today the Lord has a word for PG & his cohorts (BOD, APs, pro-PG supporters both in CC & outside CC) .......

“How long will you fools fight the facts?” (Proverbs 1:22 NLT); June 23, 2009 at 6:05 PM
Questions said...: Well, at least NOW we know why all our appeals to the AOG General Council to help us deal with this situation had FALLEN ON DEAF EARS!

General Council AOG Malaysia is on the side of the rogue pastors of Calvary Church, this fact we know NOW!

So what does that make them? AOG General Council, I mean?

Are they Prince Guneratnam's accomplices, or cronies?

On what basis do they side him?
Is it because Prince Guneratnam was the AOG General Superintendent for 26 years? So is this rogue pastor above the law?; June 23, 2009 at 6:18 PM
A Word from the Lord ....... said...: The Lord show me this scripture today .......

"If My people who are called by My name humble themselves and pray and seek My face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, I will forgive their sins and I will heal their land." 2 Chron. 7:14

I think God wants to show us what His people in CC need to do before He will forgive CC of its sins & before He will heal CC.

PG & CC have lost their anointing the last 10 years or more. Fellow Calvarites, we need to put this scripture into practice if we desire to see God's anointing return to CC & its SP (be it PG or a new SP).; June 23, 2009 at 6:27 PM
On Reso 2 said...: Ronnie Chin delights in showing off his knowledge by lecturing the floor. He was just exuding arrogance. When Joseph Gerard asked for clarification from Philip Tan, why is RC responding on the behalf of PT and asking Joseph what is the issue? The only reason for RC to respond on behalf of PT is because RC has been briefed. There is an issue and there is a problem here. The issue here is that PT contradicted himself and the problem is RC is responding to a question not addressed to him! He was the Chairman and should not be biased. He spoke as if he is a member and with full knowledge of what is going on in CC. I am very sure of the latter. And the arrogance that he exuded... it is a case of 'monkey does what monkey sees'.; June 23, 2009 at 6:28 PM
Anonymous said...: Pshn

EVERY AGM IS AN EYE-OPENER

Just found out that an old die-hard PG –loyalist for many, many years has turned against the PG-BOD Alliance. More and more people see and learn the truth during AGMs. PG is so visible on the stage. His communication style is amplified for all to hear and understand what kind of person he really is. PG is digging a deeper and deeper hole for himself. But don't let anyone tell him. Let the hole become deeper.

Many sympathizers for Dr.Lum too. Dr. Lum has proved to be more effective sacked than not sacked!

Can more leaders get sacked please!; June 23, 2009 at 7:55 PM
ex-calvarite number 101 said...: from no cheering to no "amens" what can be done but sit down and do nothing?

*sighs*

such fools... fools i tell you! fools!; June 23, 2009 at 8:43 PM
Pharisees in CC said...: CC started out as a very caring church with its pastors focused on doing His will.

Today CC's pastors are nothing more than modern day pharisees; thus PG as the SP is actually the Senior Pharisee & the others are the Associate Pharisees & Assistant Pharisees.

Pharisees are usually legalistic & pride themselves in their religiousity, plus they generally lord themselves over their sheep.

Pharisees exist to enjoy the good life at the expense of the "dumb" sheep who are blindly loyal to them. In giving sacrificially to fulfil their obligations, the "dumb" sheep is actually robbed "blind" by the pharisees.; June 23, 2009 at 9:17 PM
A very IMPORTANT extract and evidence from Katherine Lee said...: Hi Reader

Under the video Clip no.3 on SP ractification. Katherine Lee Matthew reiterated that at that time, she was one of the deacons and the deacons decided to use the CONSTITUTION instead of the STAFF HANDBOOK to "reappoint" Sp for his reappointment, and then she fumbled and said retirement.

So, which is which? on the one hand, the BOD consistently argued that "there is no retirement age for SP" and one the other hand, Katherine Lee Matthew said she is one of the deacons and they decided at that time to use the CONSTITUTION to reappoint SP. So, in this context, she had in a way confirmed to all of us that, they and SP know fully well that there is a RETIREMENT AGE AT 60 FOR SP and hence they have to deliberate on his reappointment either using the constitution or handbook. Ladies and Gentleman, here is the prove already.. who is lying now, BOD or Katherine???

Yeap, Readers, please do listen to Katherine answer again and again, and and put in your comment.; June 23, 2009 at 10:33 PM
"transcript"--simple one, from the Clip said...: Here is the transcript( but will redefine when got more time):

"My name is Katherine, I was one of the deacons at that time there is a confirmation, I believe it was the wisdom of the board at that time that the meeting we meet and we would never believe at that time that itcan become a subject between a confirmation and a amendment. I confirmed that we will confirm to use the contitution that we decided that as a Board, we unanimously agreed to use the constitution for pastor reappointment instead of the handbook..ur..ur for his retirement."

In this case, Dr Lum is correct and he did not lie. It is the Board who are twisting the facts. Katherine statemnt confirmed very clearly that there was an AWARENESS OF SP RETIREMENT AGE AND REAPPOINTMENT WITHOUT THE MEMBERS RACTIFICATION.

Dear Readers,I will listen again few more times to get it word by word, meanwhile for your digestion..; June 23, 2009 at 11:28 PM
Hey, Bro..I feel for you said...: Aiyoh, 'beh tahan'--Chairman Ronnie Chin keep reprimanding Br. teng when he was giving his clarification on sp ractification, he literally interupted him 3 to 4 time. What kind of Chairman? so unfair and unkind and so rude... bro. teng, we support you, thank God for your boldness, it is not easy to go out there and being 'psycho' to fit into Ronnie Chin's manipulation. this is from video Clip no 3, Bro. teng talked at the minute of 8:57( if u want to have short cut-just click that particular moment); June 23, 2009 at 11:37 PM
SP's Deacons said...: Very good. You got it so clearly from Katherine's confession that there was a retirement for SP at age 60.

Please listen for yourself.

If no retirement age, why SP brought it up? Look like SP knew he had to retire based on handbook. Could it be he convinced some deacons to speak for him that staff hand did not apply to him? Katherine is now President of CERC. Patrick benefited for his children. Han has memorial land for sale and church APs openly promote for him.; June 24, 2009 at 12:02 AM
Ex-Calvarite 2 said...: Why was Peter Ong shooting off his mouth about Prince Guneratnam's "calling"? It was a good thing that Ronnie Chin stopped him! What a disappointment Peter Ong is....he's turned out to be Guneratnam's shoe-polisher! I wonder what he benefits from it?; June 24, 2009 at 12:02 AM
Battered Sheep said...: A good man in a bad system will not misuse his authority.

A good system can deal with a bad man and get rid of him.

A bad man in a bad system is an untouchable pope simply because he is protected by the system. He may be the worst of tyrants, but nothing can be done by anyone.; June 24, 2009 at 12:13 AM
ISSUES FOCUSED said...: I have been lamenting and thinking hard and long WHY PG's so called followers/loyalist (from Assoc Pastors, staff & selected members) can't see the FACTS before them to realise the rot in the Stewardship under PG & BOD.

For the Assoc Pastors & Staff it is said, their rice bowl is at stake. For the BOD, there are some fringe benefits perhaps. But the 'selected' members? What blinds or binds them?

I sincerely believe Pam G & Spouse, PG & his wife PG2 in particular, and perhaps to a lesser extent Jim G & Spouse have succeeded in:
1. "poisoning the minds of those whoever care to listen to them, that those involve in TTG CAUSE are to be seen as "enemies" of God
2. instilling fear of loosing God's blessings in their lives ( esp. if they are in Business)

Therefore, all these people ended up 'hating' this group of people labelled as rebels,etc. So, instead of looking at the ISSUES of the Crisis, they see the individuals standing up for TTG CAUSE as people they should hate or come against!( Sad to say, they are so brainwashed they simply can't think clearly to be objective)

I & many concerned members do pray that these affected group under the spell of PG, will step back and see the Crisis as is, and come to their senses to be an advocate of TTG to prevail in CC.; June 24, 2009 at 12:59 AM
Anonymous said...: ARE THE MINISTERS GANGING UP AGAINST TTG?

Fairness is something that is not difficult to discern. Unfairness, on the other hand, is glaringly observable.

PG is blindly supported by all the Associate Pastors. Now the AOG Council ministers are extending their reinforcement. Are things now escalating into a ministers versus laity confrontation? Shepherds versus sheep? Fulltime versus the secular?

What is happening? Is there a fear among the AOG ministers that what is happening in Calvary Church may spread to other churches?

Let us hope that the blatant unfairness of RC while chairing the AGM is not a manifestation of a spiritual conspiracy by the higher ups to brutally quench the unrest among the Calvarites because they dare to stand against PG ‘s lack of truth, transparency and good governance!

Churches all over the world are reading the CT blog and they are learning. Will they learn to stand up against wrong? Is that why RC is so obviously biased against the blog? Will his sheep also learn?

There is no need to fear ministers! As long as pastors are truthful, transparent and show good governance in their dealing with their members. But if you don’t...............then you deserve a similar serving!; June 24, 2009 at 1:00 AM
LET"S FACE IT said...: WHY THE RESISTANCE?

1. RATIFICATION of SP re-appointment.

Since BOD realised the "Disconnect" on the retirement term bet the Staff hand book & Constitution, and went ahead to 'ratify' it, they ought to come before the MEMBERS to legitimise the ratification by way of a two third majority confirmation as stated in the Constitution.

As a matter of fact, BOD should have initiated this tabling of Ratification without the Members having to put in the Resolution! As this is the RIGHT thing to do.

2. CONSTITUTION REVIEW COMMITTEE
The present Constitution has many flaws which are amply evident in the all powerful positions of SP & BOD which are detrimental to the good governance/ stewardship of the church affairs and well being.

The Constitution Comm set up by the Board is for window dressing. In fact at the briefing meeting the panel was told whatever the changes they make, they must be "Sr. Pastor CENTRIC" ! So, what good can ever come out of it?

So, if the BOD was indeed serious to address the Constitution, they should welcome the setting-up of a competent & independent panel, which are not YES men of theirs & PG's. Instead they did all they could to reject it, because the truth is, BOD wanted Status Quo!

3. TRUTH COMMITTEE
PG & BOD had not been able to quash all the allegations leveled at them, and had failed miserably in all their attempts to refute the truth of many matters discovered by the concerned members. Instead their futile efforts raised more doubts and increased loss of confidence among the congregation.

The fact that the BOD rejected the setting up of an Independent Truth Committee further undermined both their credibility and integrity. And it proved they are afraid to face the truth. Otherwise, they would welcome it, after all as it is the RIGHT thing to do!

The outright rejection of all the above, further confirmed all is not well, and questionable with the Leadership & the Administration of the church.; June 24, 2009 at 1:50 AM
Unclean and Uncovered said...: If Prince Guneratnam is truthful, as he claimed to be, then why won't he allow the setting-up of the TRUTH COMMISSION?

Why is there this unholy resistance to TRUTH & TRANSPARENCY by the pastors and the BOD of Calvary Church?

From a logical deduction, as the super-sleuth Sherlock Holmes would say, mischief's afoot, for these people have secret sins that they want to hide, hide under a blanket of lies, excuses,half-truths,white lies, grey lies, rationalising,denial & cover-ups!

A case in point, is the missing words in the minutes, "SENIOR PASTOR's" (grandson, children, granddaughter), deliberately ommitted to make it seem like Prince & his equally-scheming wife, Petrina, are squeaky clean! If they are as 'clean' as they want people to believe, then they should go for the TRUTH COMMISSION!

As Christian ministers, they should be the first to put on the BELT of TRUTH, which is part of the Armour of God.; June 24, 2009 at 10:55 AM
GOD is Righteous n Holy said...: It is really a disgrace for PG, APs and BOD to behave in the way that did during the protacted AGM. Now AOG representatives also joined in with the shameful act of covering up all wrongs and using high handed ways to brush aside the truth.

Why are PG, APs and BOD so afraid to face the members in deciding and voting on the resolutions? If they had done what is right why the fear to face the truth? By using the Constitution to hide what is blatantly clear and obvious to all they show themselves as cowards and dummies.

Do you think by denying everything that members and outsiders will not know or find out the real situation? All the more people will find out the real facts and situation!

We believe deep down in the hearts of PG, PG2, APs and BOD, if they come honestly before God they know it is all wrong BUT they have no choice they have been wallowing in the mud, so they can't say they are dirty so just pretend they are still clean....
Of course, the deceiver has trapped them and they remain under his grip due to pride, deliberate choice and stubborness.

Shame on PG, PG2, all the APs and BOD who are the custodians of the truth and God's servants that they should stoop so low to be worst than nonbelievers who have even higher moral standards than our church leaders. What utter disgrace.... now AOG pastors are also in the same boat. Better that the authorities act and shake the whole AOG setup... if the leadership is so arrogant and non repentant, GOD will act through relevant channels.

GOD is a righteous and holy GOD and when He acts who can deter Him! He shares His glory with no one,; June 24, 2009 at 1:18 PM
Shaken Not Stirred said...: Well, looks like if TTG has to report to the relevant authorities, then we will back you up. The Bible says, that which has to be shaken , WILL be shaken....and if the AOG needs to be shaken, then let it be shaken. The God of righteousness and justice wants to bring the AOG back to its rightful path, the path of obedience, holiness, righteousness, justice, truth, transparency, good church governance, accountability...to walk on the HIGHWAY OF HOLINESS (Isaiah 35)

What Peter One said does not hold water! Just because pastors have a "calling" it doesn't give them Licence to SIN! Why is Peter Ong so gung-ho about defending the corrupt prince & petrina? Possible because, his legs are also stuck deep in the same mud, and the only way that he doesn't get dragged down into it is to LIE for the Guneratnams, and if the Guneratanams escape then he will also escape! But for how long? Does he not believe that Judgment Day is just round the corner? Peter Ong & the other Associate and Assistant Pastors of Calvary Church are just postponing the inevitable! Like PSHN said, "they are just prolonging the ending.."

It's a pity! When men of God dare not stand up for the truth, they get sucked into a web of lies, deceit & unrighteousness - it's the devil's trap.; June 24, 2009 at 4:18 PM
Feet Washer said...: CALVARY CHURCH HAS NO CONSTITUTION

What is a constitution?
It is a collection of laws, bye-law and statutes that provides guidelines for the leaders regarding the process of managing the church in a way that is approved to by the church members whilst preserving the basic rights of the church members.

In 1985 the constitution was drastically altered to impart excessive powers to the PG-BOD to the extent THEY can now blatantly refuse the members any opportunity to make any changes which is really a basic right of the church (members).

This power of the BOD was glaringly obvious when Proposal for a new Constitutional Review Committee was thrown out by the BOD in the recent AGM.

None of the members could do anything.

CALVARITES! YOU HAVE LOST IT......YOUR RIGHT TO HAVE A SAY IN THE RUNNING OF THE CHURCH.

In other words, they can do almost anything with the money that you give. Assets can be sold, money you give can be channeled anywhere e.g. for scholarships, planefares for whoever they like and for evangelising to the higher strata of India, open Old-folks home for the higher strata of society too. Do you know, when the rich die they are likely to bequeath more?

The current constitution is PG-BOD’s CONSTITUTION.

THERE IS NOW NO CALVARY CHURCH CONSTITUTION TO PROTECT THE MEMBER’S RIGHTS.; June 24, 2009 at 4:26 PM
QUERY said...: IS *SR. ASSOCIATE PASTOR employment still valid?

Given the information revealed concerning the Staff Hand Book on Retirement at 60 yrs for Assoc Pastors,
How was the case for *SAP being handled?

She should have retired 6 years ago?
If not where and what are the documents to support her "RE-APPOINTMENT" (?) ( which by right, NO such thing as re-appointment, as it should only be Specific term of Extension of service/employment.
( trust BOD will be TRUTHFUL about this, No more the infamous lame reason of "DISCONNECT" nonsense)

And certainly hope there was no year on year increment of Stipends for all these extended 6/7 years! ( She hardly work! Even Tue Ladie's 'Fellowship her only "MINISTRY' she regularly shares message using VIDEO of other preachers. What else she does?.. cut ribbons, shake hands,(Not dirty her hands mind you), make special appearances for functions, promote & boast her spouse's & children's 'great' ministries at every opportunity.

By the way, Is'nt there a CEILING for salary.
it's scary that even way back 1994, PG could be paid so much that he had asked the increment to be converted to CA$H for later use--anytime at his pleasure!

Alas, SAP's questionable continued employment begs for answers.; June 24, 2009 at 5:55 PM
Battered Sheep 2 said...: Whatever happened to HUMILITY?

The reverends and pastors today ooze with pride...they strut their stuff on stage and behave as though they are 'THE MAN/WOMAN OF THE HOUR'!

This was the same thing that happened to King Saul. He started off 'small in his own eyes,' but later became such a monster of pride and arrogance - in the end he lost his kingdom and his three sons lost their lives as well!

Sad, sad. Let this be a warning to the reverends of the AOG Malaysia. You are here, 'called of God,' to serve Him & to serve His sheep. And NOT to throw your weight around! Stop bullying God's sheep - our Good Shepherd, the Chief Shepherd, will surely hear our cries and will deal properly with the wicked and proud shepherds.; June 24, 2009 at 7:46 PM
True Story said...: "All that is needed for evil to succeed is, that decent humans do nothing." (Edmund Burke); June 24, 2009 at 7:56 PM
blemished said...: The chairman of the AGM has a blemish on his character now after the way he conducted himself as the chairman. There's a saying in Chinese "sui sai tu ng cheng" meaning "water cannot clean it". Is he trying to send a message to members of other churches in the country that you cannot fight with church leaders? If so, then we must not give up our struggles in CC.

To the TTG and the concerned members who are for truth, transparency and governance, take heart and continue your good works and soldier on. Let me share a passage from TGIF (Today God is First) by Os Hillman that I received today:

THE STRENGTH OF BROKENNESS

"The bows of the warriors are broken, but those who stumbled are armed with strength" - 1 Samuel 2:4

There is an oxymoron throughout the Bible. It says that brokenness is strength. How can this be? How can brokenness be strength? in order to use men and women to their fullest extent, the Lord has to break His servants so that they might have a new kind of strength that is not human in origin.
It is strength in spirit that is born only through brokenness.

Paul was broken on the Damascus road. Peter was broken after Jesus was taken prisoner. Jacob was broken at Peniel. David was broken after his sin with Bathsheba. The list could go on of those the Lord had to break in different ways before they could be used in the Kingdom.

When we are broken, we see the frailty of human strength and come to grips with the reality that we can do nothing in our own strength. Then, new strength emerges that God uses mightily. God resists the proud but gives grace to the humble.

Do not fear brokenness, for it may be the missing ingredient to a life that emerges with a new kind of strength and experience not known before. Pray for a broken and contrite heart that God can bless.; June 24, 2009 at 9:38 PM
Feet Washer said...: CT FOR EVER!

So a majority of 51% voted for all the blogs to be closed?
PG – BOD, please execute the resolution!

Is 51% good or bad?
As I see it, there can be no real claim for a majority.
I can see within the group mature Christians who are not really at odds with CT in their desire for truth, transparency and good governance. They are concerned for the negative outcome over young and non-christians, not only in Malaysia but world-wide.

From another perspective, I would say the Christians should be brought up and trained to live in the real world. This is the real world – a world is filled with liars, cheats, conmen, robbers, thieves, drug addicts, wolves, gnats, snakes and, thank God, there are also good people too. Young christians must be made of sterner stuff. This Calvary Saga is a great opportunity to be spiritually strengthened, not to wilt. What are the chances of a church getting personalities like PG1, PG2, BOD, PO, SK, TO, Datuk N, coming in unison to whip up a situation like this. Hardly any.

Back to CT:
CT is the life-line for TTG sympathizers. Let us never forget or waiver even a little over that.
It also guarantees that a deadline will be coming soon for PG and his cohorts.; June 24, 2009 at 11:17 PM
Anonymous said...: Chairman is talking nonsense!
go around the bushes!; June 25, 2009 at 12:32 AM
A pastor said...: I am not a member of the Calvary church. I have been following all 3 blogs.

I am a pastor and I am very saddened by what is happening at CC. As a pastor it is a principle of mine and agreed by my church board that I do not have any powers in any matter related to money / church finance.

May God grant you all grace and wisdom to resolve this issue. I believe if this is handled properly, it will be used of God to shake up not only CC but many other churches and nip many other problems in the bud.; June 25, 2009 at 7:39 AM
Mammon"s Servant said...: Bouncers in the House of God..... what a sad day for Calvary Church! The true colours of Prince Guneratnam are displayed for all to see!

Is this the man who claimed to be God's servant?

He used to be, but no longer! He has already changed sides, you know? He is serving the devil (at worst), or at best, MAMMON - his strong-arm tactics to keep his position of power confirms WHO his Master really is!

Jesus clearly said, No man can serve two Masters.

"24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon." (Matthew 6:24, KJV); June 25, 2009 at 8:00 AM
Broken hearted sheep said...: to 'A Pastor'

It is good that you and your church board follows the principle. This will free you as a pastor to minister the word of God and to your members without prejudice whether they contribute a lot of money or no money at all to the church.

Whilst it is not mentioned, many of our members who are "poorer, without titles" have been neglected by the church. Even when they call pastors to visit them at the eve of their going through surgery, they have been ignored. If they are rich, then our pastors will flock to them without invitation!!! They care so much about money and prestige that they really forget their calling to 'feed their sheep, care for their sheep'.

Are you an AOG pastor? Am asking because from the "performance" of RC, KY they are on the same league as our own pastors - many of my friends who are thinking of leaving CC consider it is wiser to go to a main stream church who has better governance.

Yr reply is vital; June 25, 2009 at 9:30 AM
Malay Mail said...: Someone must send this audio clip to to file a complaint to AG Council against Pas Ronnie for unscriptural conduct.

The stuation is worst to some of the worldly AGM! - hope tht Pas Ronie will read this to find out about himself!

Any lawyer member who can also get a court order to declare the entire AGM null and void.

What a shame, it's like Christian group who play football game, the true color and true charactor come out, just wanted to win the 'game'!; June 25, 2009 at 10:46 AM
Malay Mail said...: It is very messy and the ending could be worst then a mega church which was close down many years ago! The longer it drag the harder will be the fall!; June 25, 2009 at 10:55 AM
Anointing is Gone said...: We do not see God's presence and anointing in PG, PG2 and APs anymore. It is gone long ago.

They are definitely walking in the flesh and this is indeed a dangerous position they are taking.

Furthermore they are also bringing alongside with them the BOD, their families and all the staunch followers who have been brainwashed by PG, PG2, APs and BOD.

Sad to say these leaders are bordering on the likes of a cult. There are obvious telling signs that the way that PG is holding his followers by his high handed, fleshly ways and his followers are going about his wishes like zombies and dimwits.

BOD are professionals, academician and businessmen but when in PG's presence they are so subdued and absolutely with no mind of their own. Why? This is very unhealthy and something is seriously wrong. Is not this the work of the deceiver? Why has PG kept all APs subjugated all this while?

Why is that until now after nearly 40 years there is no successor to PG's position? Why is PG clinging for dear life to the powerful position of Senior Pastor in CC? Why is PG and family holding to all their positions in CC? Why are APs and BOD sticking to PG like glue and singing PG's tune all the while even when PG is living in sin and abusing his position as shepherd of CC?

Why is AOG Council not willing to act? Why is PG making use of some of his followers from AOG Council to chair the meeting, carry out his own personal agenda and lend support to wipe away whatever members seek to know as the truth in CC affairs.

We know God is fully aware of all that is happening in CC..... The Lord will mete out His judgment in due course. No one can escape the Lord's judgment... to the one who has received much much shall be expected.

PG and family have been blessed through CC all the years BUT have they been appreciative of all the sacrifices the members have made? Instead they are still adamant to fleece the sheep and eat and enjoy all the choicest food from the sheep while leaving nothing for the sheep except causing so much pain and distress to them.

We believe GOD our heavenly Father will act in His prefect time. We yield ourselves to Him completely.

OUR GOD REIGNS!; June 25, 2009 at 12:20 PM
Bluntee said...: Hi "A Pastor",

i think we're all sad. and it is a shame at what is happening in CC.

i'm thankful that there are pastors who see what's happening and realize the WRONG and SIN that's being committed.

we ourselves are NOT free from sin, of course, but we believe that the shepherd needs to be right before the rest of the church can follow suit.

God Bless!; June 25, 2009 at 12:50 PM
Identity not vital to us said...: It's encouraging to know that there are many GOOD PASTORS out there and I know many GOOD PASTOR friends who really love their church and their members and work very hard to reach out to the lost for Jesus Christ. Keep pressing on all you faithful pastors out there.

To A Pastor,

Don't reveal anything about yourself here. Whether you are AG or not is not our business. It won't help the cc saga but your word of encouragement helps us as to know that there are caring pastor and that is enough.; June 25, 2009 at 4:04 PM
Questions said...: Associate Member not allowed to speak @ AGM?

Preposterous!

What is he afraid of? This Senior Pharisee has too many skeletons in his closet...he is trying to shut up those who know about his secret sins!!

And what's worse, the Mr. Reverend Chairman, was abetting him in his crimes!!

Is there no fear of God in AOG Malaysia? How can the Asst. Gen. Supt. of AOG Malaysia General Council Executive Committee do this despicable thing? He was AFRAID that what she (Associate Member) said would influence the voting!! Talk about biased-ness! Mr. Chairman was trying so hard to please the Dark Prince!

If Senior Pharisee, and all his Associate Pharisees and their accomplices, the BOD, have not done anything wrong, then WHY are they afraid that what she said would influence the voting?; June 25, 2009 at 8:11 PM
Cheated said...: I am very dissapointed with what is happening in the AGM.
Why are we there if we voting members have no right to vote but to listen to half truth. We are there to hear the truth and to vote according to our conscience but was not given the opportunity. Feel cheated and betray.; June 25, 2009 at 8:33 PM
why associate cannot speak? said...: Voila..after listening to the 4th audio clip, I almost suffer heart attack, my heart beat really going fast! Its really horrible, the Chairman is so rude and unreasonable, no conscience of right or wrong; appropriate or inappropriate, he seemed to know 2 words only, one word is 'unconstitutional' next word is 'no'.

Friends outs there, what is happening to calvary church? why are the leaders so 'under the bondage of power?' Why turn away associate members? why turn off the mic? why is it so difficult to hear them out? why is it so 'rigid'? why undermind the intelligence of the members both voting and associate? why associate members cannot ask question?? how can an assocciate's statement influence the votes??

Does it mean to said that when in a family, the children cannot speak and they are like associate member, whereas the father is the Chairman and the mother is the voting member. What kind of family is then if this is to be the case?; June 25, 2009 at 10:16 PM
GRIEVING HEART said...: CCC BANKRUPTS Calvary Church.

It was unfortunate the Presentation of the Up-date of CCC was at the END of the 11 hour long AGM--when
the "hall" ( sorry, if it is a Sanctuary, it was unrecognisable) was almost empty of the members. So, many did not get to hear the STARTLING fact--
To continue to fund CCC, the church has to:

EMPTY its FD of RM20 MILLION

SELL/Morgage its properties ( no details) value at RM52 MILLION

ACTIVATE the Loan from Bank RM 35 MILLION

Counting on FUTURE Money from "faith promise" of RM26 MILLION...

And the above is still not the end..MORE $$$ is required.

It's "PAW CHAN"( Cantonese, meaning completely "WIPE-OUT one's fortune", in this case wiping-out our beloved church's 47 years of Members' labour & sacrifices in giving.

As a old member and many other beloved bro. &sis, our hearts are broken to bits to see CCC bring us to ground ZERO.; June 25, 2009 at 11:44 PM
Feet Washer said...: CHINESE SAYING: Most unwise to spill your own rice-bowl!

So ridiculous
For the doctor to quarrel with his patients
For a private college to quarrel with the students
For company to quarrel with the shareholders
For a shop to quarrel with its customers
For a Government to quarrel with its voters

BUT in CC the Shepherd quarrels with his sheep.......???!!!

TOTT - Turn off the tap..........MORE
And turn off MORE taps !; June 25, 2009 at 11:46 PM
Anonymous said...: I am totally speechless after listening to the 4th audio.

There no way to have a win-win situation at all. Member or no member, there's absolutely no dialog at all. I can hear only one way communication. IS this how we were taught?

There's no transparency at all.
Wall has been built and there's no way to get through. God! Please sent Jericho!; June 26, 2009 at 12:43 AM
My heart bleeds. said...: I am not only speechless but my blood pressure also went up. I can understand now why the TTG people are holding on so strongly. We really thank God for you people. What can I say except to pray that God will deliver us soon from the clutches of these tyrants.

I understand from other church members that most of the experienced lawyers who are for TTG are associate members. No wonder they don't allow the Associate members to speak. My heart bleeds for the whole thing.; June 26, 2009 at 1:21 AM
No More Bullying said...: We thank God for raising the TTG Group and all the brave and courageous members and Associate members who spoke out during the AGM.

It is certainly no easy task to stand up infront of the firey and intimidating big bullies in the kind of Chairman, PG, APs and BOD plus the pro PG people and having to speak out clearly despite the incessant interruptions by "the puppet on the string" Chairman who was dancing to the tune of PG!

We applaud you all for being so brave and courageous. God is in control and He will surely bring His plan to fruition.

It is just a matter of time and the final curtains will be drawn. God will not allow the delinquent, lawless and cowardly shepherds to further abuse and harm His sheep.

God will raise shepherds who are after His heart and with the real passion and calling to take care of His sheep.

Hallelujah OUR GOD REIGNS!; June 26, 2009 at 5:17 AM
Lord, come and deliver Calvary Church! said...: Today the world mourns the passing of two Hollywood celebrities, Farah Fawcett and Michael Jackson. . .

27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: (Hebrews 9:27, KJV)

Calvarites, get back into focus. . . go and save the lost!

Lord, may Calvary Church be delivered from these wicked shepherds & leaders, all modern-day Pharisees, who are only concerned about MONEY and their own selfish interests. Give us NEW shepherds who have a heart for the LOST out there....In Jesus' Name, I pray! Amen!; June 26, 2009 at 8:11 AM
Feet Washer said...: THE ANIMAL IN US

The bible often use animals as examples of
behaviour that we should have
or should NOT have!

Here too are some animal behaviors found in some of us.

We are .......
An ant when we are able to work in season and out
An eagle, when soar to great spiritual heights with the Holy Spirit
Busy like bees when our hard work for the Lord and exude sweetness to others
Like mosquitoes, who get a pat on the back for our finished work
Wise like an owl, when we not wise in our own eyes

We are also......
Blind as a bat, when we fail to see existing wrongs
Sheepish as a sheep, when we cower and splutter and stutter before a domineering chief
Blood-thirsty as a leech, when we suck the life-blood out of people’s earnings
Cunning as a fox, when we are deceitfully clever
Like some church leaders who are squeeky mice before PG but dirty rats to the congregation
Crooked as snakes when we consistently twist and turn until we totally lose sight on what is right and wrong
Like a crocodile when our tears move others but not ourselves
Stubborn as a mule when we know we wrong yet remain so!; June 26, 2009 at 9:00 AM
Congrat. to Chris Raj-clip opn blog said...: Well..very well..Chris.Raj, you said it well. once upon a time, calvary church was 'the' church to go for as you claimed, and now you said calvary church is a 'trouble church' you as PG supporter had very clearly pronounced that, and we concerned members totally agreed with you. cc is in trouble, who would ever denied it? The BOD and SP and Associate Pastors and PG Supporter are the only one who denied cc is in trouble somehow...; June 26, 2009 at 9:39 AM
IFollowJesus said...: Weeks ago, I posed a question.

We have on both sides "Men and Women of God", proclaiming to do God's work, using God's name, and slandering the other party.

Both claimed to know God, and acknowledge God's existence.

Are they not AFRAID of God's wrath upon them?

It's one thing for a sinner to not know God and die with the sin unforgiven. It's totally a different thing for someone who claimed to know God, who can recite the Word of God verse by verse, who is given the opportunity to serve, and yet, abuse, plunder, lord over, lie, cheat, steal, scheme, and in the same breath, say Praise the Lord and Amen.

My God!!! Is there even the slightest tinge of fear of God in them?; June 26, 2009 at 10:05 AM
Prayer for Change in AOG Malaysia said...: Our fight is not only against the corruption in Calvary Church - looks like the Lord has raised TTG to bring awareness of shortcomings to the Body at large and also to create good, healthy change to the present AOG Malaysia (& beyond)'s system of dictatorial, pastoral control and lack of acountability.

Lord, let the winds of change blow strongly upon the Assemblies of God in Malaysia - let evil structures of pride, control & selfish domination & vanity be brought down & let the fear of God rule in the midst of AOG Malaysia. With great power comes great responsibility AND accountability. When Reverends and pastors pervert justice, will you not judge them, O Lord?
In Jesus' name, I pray, Amen!; June 26, 2009 at 10:11 AM
Feet Washer said...: THE BEAUTY OF ANIMALS

They kill but never murder
They kill only to eat
They never kill more than they need
They store just for a winter
They don’t keep FDs
(Reminds me of the manna God gave to the Israelites)

Human beings on the other hand
Scheme, murder, plunder
For riches, power, name, control

And we have the cheek
To call THEM animals??!!

Shame on the leaders of Calvary Church!; June 26, 2009 at 3:38 PM
Zoorama said...: Dear Feet Washer,

How perceptive of you! Indeed, the Calvary Church Management Team is undeniably quite ZOO-ish!

There are bats (blind to existing shortcomings of the senior pastor), dumb sheep (when confronted by an angry hireling-shepherd), leeches (blood-sucking & money-siphoning), foxes (sly and cunning in covering their tracks), mice and rats (those who steal), snakes (liars & untrustworthy), crocodiles which cry, and many stubborn, stiff-necked mules...!; June 26, 2009 at 3:45 PM
Anonymous said...: Thank you TTG and appreciate all the hardwork put in. Personally, I am a very shy person and can never dare speak louder let a lone in public.

I miss both meeting and felt very sorry for not able to turn up. After listening to all Audios, I felt so angry and I believe, if I am there, I would have done something beyond anyone expectation.

I am also wondering what is in the mind of SP, Chairman AP and BOD.
I could understand that SP, AP or Chairman who have never work in Secular world before may not understand or know how to handle $$ or the word 'INTEGRITY' handling and managing people's money as I notice we have only Treasury but no such thing as a proper Finance Dept with professional handling and audit in place. These may be the rootcaused leading to many descrepencies of 'manhandling' $$.

But I cannot comprehend the fact that we have a bunch of BODs from high level profession from different Secular sector of the world to guide but ended up in this messy slump.

BOD, God give us a brain... USE IT! Where are the WISDOM that God give to you? The end result, you have allow a Personal Agenda to take over you head.

Please use you HEAD instead of your heart now.... Let your heart be directed to the right place - Jesus and allow you HEAD to take over and THINK!

Can I say that there's nothing wrong with CC? If No, you are denying the fact and obviously something very wrong with you guys!

If yes, Am I doing the right thing? What should I do next?; June 26, 2009 at 5:49 PM
h0cmun said...: I just listended the first recording.

Constitutionally, I think the right person to appoint an acting chairman is the SP and Secretary, just like what is mentioned.
At the same time, the point that the power is rest on the Church members in the general meeting is also valid. Hence, this part of the constitution is contradictory in this context.

Change this constitution next year then.

Shalom.; June 26, 2009 at 7:44 PM
Feet Washer said...: SUEY = Water

Revelation 22:1 speaks of a Water (SUEY in cantonese) of Life
Flowing out from the throne of God

SUEY gives life – human life, plant life and animal life
SUEY also represents the Holy Spirit
Who should flow from the church (the Christians) where God is, into the world to give life

SUEY in Cantonese also means money
And the goodness of this SUEY should flow from godly Christian THROUGH CALVARY CHURCH
to POOR out there

CALVARY CHURCH should be a CHANNEL for SUEY
Not a CATCHMENT place – the very, very deep pockets of some leaders

YOU THINK IT IS NOT TRUE ??
THEN WHY HAS THE BOD YET TO REVEAL THE SALARY SCHEME OF PASTORS !!
AFTER HAVING BEEN ASKED SO LONG AGO???

CASH-COWS CALVARITES do the TOTT !!
No suey no talk!

Let me assure everyone
Not many people in the history of mankind
Have been able to have riches and remain holy.; June 26, 2009 at 11:07 PM
GB said...: WHAT’S THE BIG DEAL ABOUT CCC ??

Does PG want to show high great he is? Does he want to immortalize himself? Does he want his name PG on the building?

Hey! Lets quit fooling ourselves. ANYBODY can build CCC. ALL YOU NEED IS ENOUGH CASH.

M built the tallest building in the world! Did he? Actually it was designed by an Argentenian Architect, and built by two contracting firms - a Japanese and a Korean.

M provided the cash and they didn't quibble over M getting the credit.

Can PG build CCC? Of course he can. All he needs is enough cash. And from where will he get the cash? Cash-rich Calvarites otherwise referred to as CASH-COWS.

Cheers Everbody.....er... I mean Moo to you!; June 27, 2009 at 12:08 AM
Confession n Repentance Needed said...: Proverbs 28:13,14

"He who covers his sins will not prosper,
But whoever confesses and forsakes them will have mercy.
Happy is the man who is always reverent,
But he who hardens his heart will fall into calamity."

We are sure that PG, PG2, APs and BOD are very familiar with these verses and many such samiliar passages too. They would have counselled many members and others with such teachings too.

Despite all their knowledge but why do they themselves ignore these teachings? Where is the godly example that is meant to be reflected by these leaders?

May the leadership come before the Lord and draw all members to a true state of confession and repentance rather than one of antagonism and confrontation. It is a most disgraceful and shameful state of affairs played out in the open without any more grace...

Pastors and BOD please act soon as matters are really sliding deeper and deeper into the dumps. It may end up in the valley of no return.; June 27, 2009 at 10:01 AM
Anonymous said...: BOD! Let's be blind by JESUS and allow HIM to work in you instead of being blinded by PGs!

Let your conscience be your GUIDE! You have became PINNOCHIO who refuse to be guided and ended up in the belly of the whale.

REPENT! Gain back your respect and trusworthiness from the people! It takes 3 years to gain trust but only 3 seconds to loose it.; June 27, 2009 at 11:08 AM
What a DISGRACE! said...: After re-listening to the audio recording of the agm procedure, my conclusion is, what a disgrace and shame Ronnie Chin and Prince Guneratnam have brought to the Christian community in general, and the AG churches in particular. Sorry bros & sis, I just couldn't bring myself to address them as Pastors, what more as Reverends, because of what they've done.

To the AG Council, if you're not going to do something to rectify these injustices and shame brought about by these two individuals, you may then have to pay the price for it.

Is this what you call a fountainhead church???; June 27, 2009 at 12:40 PM
Ex- Calvarite 1001 said...: Dear Feet Washer,

I enjoy reading your poetic & humourous comments, especially on the animals in the Church.
However, you have left out some...

- smiling tigers (they shake your hands, smile their Colgate smile as though they love you but behind your back, they scheme to devour you!) - I have had my encounters with some of them!
- gossipy, chattering monkeys (comprising of church staff & pastors who talk bad about their church members, especially those who don't agree with them!)
- wolves (dressed in sheep's clothing but they are in the church to kill, to steal & to destroy God's people, particularly those who stand up for the truth!); June 27, 2009 at 2:33 PM
Anonymous said...: ARE PG- BOD MOVING FORWARDS OR BACKWARDS?

And are you moving forwards and backwards with them?

HYK gave his last announcement at the AGM that there are plans to sell and lease back the assets of Calvary Church worth 52M in order to support the building of CCC. Isn’t it a known fact that most sensible people will not buy a house near a church unless it is for a song. Most people will not buy a bungalow for the purpose of leasing it back to a church (They usually buy to stay there themselves i.e. if they do buy it in the first place). Most people will not buy the shoplot at Damansara Perdana just to rent back to you for a pittance. And the far-a-way Calvaryland will not attract any buyers at all what more with the existing tenant who are there. The cost of all these leasing will weigh heavy on you church members and the church is already burdened by the cost of having a bank loan of 35M.

What a cost for members to bear, to fulfil only a man’s dream. And if it is fulfilled there is the added strain of bearing the maintenance cost in the years to come!

HEY! CASH-COW CALVARITES.

This is NOT a DREAM. It is a financial NIGHTMARE.....for you!

ANYWAY, you cannot do anything about it.
THE CONSTITUTION empowers PG-BOD to do anything they want WITHOUT YOUR CONSENT!
But not to worry! Just have faith. Sleep tight. Throw caution to the wind. Discard all common sense. Don’t bother about the financial noose slowly and imperceptibly tightening around your neck......YOUR NECK!; June 27, 2009 at 3:22 PM
Anonymous said...: PG-BOD CAN DO ANYTHING !!

ANYTHING??
YES, ANYTHING !!

Without you!!??
YES, WITHOUT YOU !!

BECAUSE they won’t let you vote to change the constitution!

AND without the change they can continue to do anything!

Yours is not to say why
YourS is to do and give, give, give....... until you die!

Calvarites,
You didn’t know?? Tsk, tsk,tsk.; June 27, 2009 at 3:30 PM
GB said...: PG DOES NOT HAVE TO BE SMART

If Calvarites are dumb sheep and cash-cows plus a number of donkeys in the Board, PG does not have to be extremely smart. He just has to be a little smarter! No?

Just because PG perceives you all to be so and treats you so you don’t have to be so you know!

There is a book written entitled, “TAKE CHARGE OR ELSE SOMEBODY WILL!”. Makes sense, I thought.

Now you know why PG is TOTALLY in charge.; June 27, 2009 at 3:50 PM
Feet Washer said...: Dear Ex-calarite 1001

Thanks for the compliment. Every little bit helps. I think it is the best way to handle the current frustration. Amuse myself, needle them while telling the truth.

Why call yourself Ex-. You are a true calvarite by the heart and spirit. Unlike PG – a bull in a China shop. Cheers or ....rather.... be-eh!; June 27, 2009 at 4:05 PM
Feet Washer said...: A QUESTION THAT REALLY BEGS AN ANSWER:

Why would 700 church members vote in 7 Deacons to help 1 Pastor run their Christian life with total disregard for their feelings and pay him a bomb to do so?

The right answer will be rewarded RM 10M (Judges' decision final)
If no winners proceeds may go to CIM!(Subject to decision of Judge); June 27, 2009 at 5:00 PM
Trick or Treat? said...: Dear Feet Washer,

My answer to your question:

The Church has 700 dumb members, stupid sheep really, who had the wool pulled over their eyes, not realising that the 7 Deacons they voted in had betrayed them!; June 27, 2009 at 5:26 PM
I- Report. said...: PROOF of one man’s own vision for CCC ( and not God’s):

1. The ‘confirmation’ attributed to God for the Site was changed twice, by PG!
( money was spent for the Architect plans, and other costs)

2. The site of present CCC, was not what PG claimed he saw, his eyes were
looking at another location! (confirmed by witness who was with him)

3. The land was brought at premium

4. The Budget of RM150 Million was deceptively ‘voted’ ( members merely
Was asked to Stand up to pray)

5. Knowingly appointed a Free Manson Architect

6. Compromised finishes from the finest Ceramic to aculubond/ steel

7. Financial difficulties

8. Massive Bank borrowings

9. Resort to selling/mortgaging church properties

10. Cause a spilt in the congregation.; June 27, 2009 at 9:31 PM
WISER NOW said...: DEAL ANOTHER FAITH PROMISE CARD for CCC?

*PG & Missions & BOD & Assoc Pas. always pull out this "ACT BY FAITH" card to urge congregation to give $$$

One must FIRST KNOW by logic & common sense what it all entails, facts which are absolutely information to
understand the $$$ commitment-- It's call for Wisdom & Prudence.

Until you as an individual know what you are believing God for, which *they themselves actually have NO CLUE what they are doing, but just keep asking you to give in faith, it's BLIND Faith!( manipulative faith!)

Have you ever been told what is really the BOTTOM line for CCC, ? Right now it is a bottomless pit.; June 27, 2009 at 9:48 PM
Feet Washer said...: THE TOWER OF BABEL (TB)

Two reasons God was angry:
Gen 11:3 Let US build ......... a tower that reaches to the sky! WE will become famous....

Gen 11:6 He (God) said: Soon THEY will be able to do anything THEY want.
(GOD always wants us to do what HE wants)

Where is TB today? IT DOESN’T EXIST!

Now replace “TB” with “CCC”

And you will now know that CCC
Is not so much God’s vision
As it is one mortal man’s egotistical obscession.

CALVARITE!
CHECK !!
How much has CC spent for missions in the last 47 years!
Compare that with the amount of money CCC will cost to build and maintain in the next 47 years!

Concrete do not have souls!; June 27, 2009 at 10:51 PM
Before you give, please understand Prince and Constitution have the final say said...: I stopped giving to Faith Promise for at least 5 years. I stopped giving to CCC after the 1st bite-size.

Then, I felt uncomfortable. I believed in what the Holy Spirit was guiding me. I didn't tell others. It was my own conviction from God. Over time, it confirmed with the unfolding of events.

First, the failure of CalvaryLand. 10M complex, 0.5M annual expenses for mere 6 residents! Second, CCC budget moved from 60M to 150M and now at least 250-300M. Third, Discovery of close to 2M moved to CIM. Fourth, Care in Missions Dept moved to CARED in CIM with 0.5M funds. Fifth, Funds for reliefs hoarded in CARED. Sixth, SP's children's Extended Ministries have accumulated funds of 2M.

All these I term them as hoarding missions funds from the needy.

In short, most of faith promise collected goes to SP and family ministries where they are hoarded and little actually goes to needy ministries.

God does not want us to have blind faith and blind spirit. Missions Sunday will be on 5th July and Dr Guynes will be speaking.

You don't have to fill the card on the same Sunday you receive. Listen to the message, take the card home, discuss with your family and pray for the Lord's guidance. You may find that, before your own eyes, your own family, relatives and neighbours are having greater needs than CIM, CCM and CLM.

I have been liberated years ago. I still give to God because I love to give to Him and where His works have the greatest need. More important, I give to ministries which practise truth, transparencies, Godly-governance and mutual accountability. In Calvary Church, you are supposed to give money but not supposed to ask how and where it is used. Let it to Prince and he needs not have to give account to members. Why? The church constitution says so! The Missions Manual says so! What the Bible says is not so important. Constitution and Prince and Deacons have the final say.; June 27, 2009 at 11:26 PM
GB said...: THE TRUE STORY ABOUT FAITH PROMISE

Dear Wiser Now

You mentioned about FAITH PROMISE and how nobody, even the pastors are clear exactly what it is all about. How right you are! I was there when it just started. I remember PG’s explanation.

Faith promise is simply a praying and a pledging of a certain regular amount of money to the church and having faith to believe that God will provide the money OUTSIDE YOUR REGULAR INCOME! There were no obligation to give that money if God did not provide.

Later, the part “OUTSIDE YOUR REGULAR INCOME” was conveniently forgotten. And people who could not pay were chastised for not having enough faith. Others were deprived of taking leadership positions. Note the typical G-style of controlling sheep which continues until today.

Since, many people just resorted to giving out of their monthly income, which is really a simple offering and not a faith promise, and hope that God will be with them as they struggle through the month.

I agree with you “Wiser Now” that it is manipulative and it is indeed so very subtle. If only members like you will become wiser now.

Please do not think I am against giving in faith. Half my retirement income goes into God’s kingdom. But this faith promise thing was birthed out of the flesh, yet again, by a man whose intention may not be questionable IN THE BEGINNING but it is now.

To clarify. I am not contradicting myself and saying the method was good initially.I am just saying that the intention may have been good initially which is not same thing.

I tell you. I know of no other person in this world and in my whole life, christian and non-christian included, who knows how to milk cash out of people like this man......and without people minding too. Where does all the cash go, I just cannot imagine.

There are myriad of ways of giving to God and be blessed. To me, faith promise is a real no no. It is associated with so much spiritual arm-twisting especially of young Christian who are often made guilt-ridden because of their lack of knowledge of the word . And the shephard does not lift even one finger to help relieve the poor soul's burden (Mat 23:4)

But, then, too many AOG pastors are using the same method now. Guess who is their mentor? Money does come into the church. Who is courageous enough, daring enough, unadulteratedly enough to admit the truth.

IT IS INDEED A VERY INCONVENIENT TRUTH!; June 28, 2009 at 12:08 AM
Life Group Leaders - Where are you now? said...: After this AGM, many scenarios may emerge. Associate members may leave CC. Voting members may leave. TTG members may also leave.

We urge all Life Group leaders to meet and speak up. It is better to obey God and defy ungodly/unChristlike leaders.

Prince has no pastoral heart. He lords over others. For years, deacons failed to withstand his deceptive onslaught. He changed the CC Constitution to make himself all powerful in running the church. Recent AGM is a clear manifestation of wicked ways.

With many members leaving, there can be a leadership vacuum where only serious Life Group leaders must fill to meet and tell others of the deterioration of CC.

Jesus will build His Church with or without Calvary Church. He will build His church with or without you and me. If we or CC are cancerous part of His Body, Jesus can just take us or CC away.

Before it's too late, we individually or collectively as CC ought to make right and please Him. Current leadership is too much nonsense. It's hard to see hope in current didictorial SP, subservient APs and weak/easily manipulated BOD.

This leaves only Life Group leaders to take on increasing role now that we see more members (including TTG members) leaving CC.; June 28, 2009 at 12:26 AM
BOD to cut SP and SAP salary to 2K said...: We heard of many Pastors taking no salary or small salary after some years of ministry or when reaching retirement age 55 (just like all others church workers to live by examples).

Now, Prince, Petrina and few other APs who have reached age 55 should be given a review by the new BOD.

Cut their salaries to RM2000 per month. If they love to serve God because of their calling (as mentioned by PO), they would not complain. If they do, they serve because of pay.

BOD, do not worry about cutting their fat salaries. You and many others life group leaders are serving God without pay. Yet, you serve cheerfully. Another good reason to cut their salaries is their poor performance - attendance dropped, church divided, projects failed, funds abused, members dissatisfied...

Just start with SP and SAP. They are rich enough to have self initiated taking no pay. Since they refuse or cannot do it on their own accord, BOD has to do it without fear or favour. Even many CEOs voluntarily take pay cut to save their companies. They feel responsible. Whereas, our Christian leaders are so unashamed. They keep quiet and pretend nothing is happening. This set bad examples. It's worst than what's happening in the world. How do you expect the church to win the lost world????; June 28, 2009 at 12:46 AM
"What you give to Missions is NOT for you to question" PG said...: Yes!!! Missions (Faith Promise) Sunday is coming next week on Sunday 5th Jul 2009.

PG will use Guynes to convince Calvarites & worshippers to give & give & give. Remember that PG had declared on Saturday 1st March 2008 that "what you give to Missions is NOT for you to question".

Litlle did we know then that PG was "right" because his Missions Manual stated so but in our hearts we knew that it was wrong.

Of course, little did we know that the bulk of what was given out by CC as Missions & Evangelism in 2007 ACTUALLY went to PG's personal ministry - CIM. This was confirmed by the questions raised at the recent AGM by a TTG member when ER confirmed that the RM 200,000 given to CIM in 2007 was included in the item "Missions & Evangelism".

When you check it out in the Missions Fund account on Page 2, you will noticed that a total of RM 260,208 was given out as Missions & Evangelism. If you deduct the RM 200,000 that went to CIM, ONLY RM 60,208 is left for REAL Missions & Evangelism work i.e ONLY RM 5,017 per month.

So Calvarites be WARNED, out of the monthly RM 220,000+ Faith Promise budget income received in 2007, ONLY RM 5,017 actually went to Missions & Evangelism. God knows where the balance went to.; June 28, 2009 at 9:23 AM
Greedy Senior Pastor said...: Calvarites have been indoctrinated for years that they MUST give to the church if they want God to bless us! We failed to see how greedy & money-minded our pastors have become! This was not an overnight development, but through the years we can see it in Prince's policies...

1. Very rarely will Prince encourage Calvarites to give to other churches or Christian organisations. I remember those BCM students (Calvarites)selling their BCM Day Funfair tickets had to do it on their own, without endorsement from the pulpit - other churches, most pastors would announce to the congregation & encourage them to support BCM Day.

2. Calvarites would not be informed of most of A/G Council Central District activities. E.g. the latest Barbara Yoder Prayer Seminar organised by the A/G Prayer Commission, in May. I hardly saw any Calvarites attending, except for a couple of pastors.
Calvary Church pastors' usual excuse was, 'we have our own.' there is this selfish, possessive attitude that Prince has, to keep all the Calvarites' money for himself, even back in those bygone days.

3. I remember many years ago, when an international group of Christian singers on tour, held their performance in Calvary Church ONE NIGHT, the offering collected - which every one thought was for the singers so I am sure everybody gave generously - was kept back by Calvary! The auditorium was packed with people, until so much so many had to stand outside to watch & listen - we opened the windows of the auditorium for them to listen to the singing. Pastor Peter Ong then sheepishly said that, 'the earlier offering was for the expenses incurred in hosting this group, but we will collect this second round for the Continental Singers'! Imagine everybody's surprise! I am sure the second round was much less because people would have given what they could in the first round! I was so ashamed that Pastor Peter Ong could do this sneaky thing, but then of course he was just acting under the orders of Prince Guneratnam!!; June 28, 2009 at 10:23 AM
black sheep said...: What a farce! A few things are clear after listening to the audio clips...

1. Ronnie Chin has lost ALL credibility. I hope his church congregation is listening with ears opened.

2. Philip Tan needs to go!

3. Beating around the bush - round and round we go!

It is apparent that PG and BOD have something to hide. Crystal clear! That I know for sure...; June 28, 2009 at 11:26 AM
Feet Washer said...: MISSIONS SUNDAY:AN EVALUATION OF DELMER GUYNES, your speaker, our enigma.

We fellowshiped with him those days, long ago.

STRONG POINTS:
Dedicated missionary
reasonable teacher and preacher.
As a pastor, much much better than PG .

WEAK POINTS:
No other gifts of the Holy Spirit.
Very disadvantaged not to have gifts of discernment, word of knowledge ( you need all these gifts to be able to handle PG),
High IQ, inadequate EQ.
Does not believe in evil spirits linked to gods and goddesses of the Eastern religions.

GREATEST CAREER MISTAKE:
The Chairing of the 2008 infamous EGM.
(He was sincere but totally lacked wisdom (As a Christian I am unable to use stronger terms).
I expected more, much much more from an experience missionary. His lack of discretion was really appalling and this is a great understatement. The role of Chairman demands a person who is uncompromisingly neutral and independent. He knew he was not neutral. How can you possibly be neutral when you listen only to one side of the story – PG’s side. It says in Pro 18:17, ( and Guynes, as bible teacher, has no excuse not to know it) The first person to speak in court always seems right until his opponent begins to question him. (There are ALWAYS two sides to a coin)(Basic Sunday school teaching)

WITH THAT ALL THE RESPECT I HAD FOR THIS MORTAL SOUL PLUMMETED RIGHT TO ZERO.

You see, respect does not only have to be earned but it has to be sustained. I respected PG once TOO, a looooong time ago, for a moment, and a moment was all I could spare him.

GUYNES & CC SAGA:
He has almost the same perception as PG-BOD. If you talk to him be very cautious. Have you all learnt this skill – talk a lot and say nothing (of worth). Well, this is the right time to exercise this gift. However, if you think the Holy Spirit is leading, then go ahead.

HOW DO I RESPOND ON MISSIONS SUNDAY, 5TH July 2009?

PLEASE READ THE FOLLOWING EXTRACT from one of the comments in CT:

Before you give, please understand Prince and Constitution have the final say said...
JUNE 27, 2009 11:26 PM

“God does not want us to have blind faith and blind spirit. Missions Sunday will be on 5th July and Dr Guynes will be speaking.

You don't have to fill the card on the same Sunday you receive. Listen to the message, take the card home, discuss with your family and pray for the Lord's guidance. You may find that, before your own eyes, your own family, relatives and neighbours are having greater needs than CIM, CCM and CLM.

I have been liberated years ago. I still give to God because I love to give to Him and where His works have the greatest need. More important, I give to ministries which practise truth, transparencies, Godly-governance and mutual accountability. In Calvary Church, you are supposed to give money but not supposed to ask how and where it is used. Let it to Prince and he needs not have to give account to members. Why? The church constitution says so! The Missions Manual says so! What the Bible says is not so important. Constitution and Prince and Deacons have the final say”.

So folks, you still want to be a cash-cow huh?

I can just imagine PG saying to you, " Well done, good and faithful cow! You have been faithful over a little, you can be faithful for even much much more!Enter into the joy of your shepherd"; June 28, 2009 at 12:26 PM
The blind will see said...: 00 PG-BOD – ARE JUST COMPUTER GLICHES

In know computers
Most effective and efficient
When manipulating myriads details repeatedly

PG-BOD are chips with the same byte
When it comes to the AGM process

01 Informed members of AGM date
02 Members submit Resolutions
03 PG-BOD deliberate resolutions
04 PG-BOD detests resolutions
05 PG-BOD debates at AGM
06 PG-BOD throws out resolution
07 GOTO 01

CALVARITES PLEASE NOTICE -
The repeated circular process!
The process is controlled by the constitution!
That circular processes does’t get anyone anywhere!
You expend energy!
They expend energy!
For all to go round and round

Linear motion always gets you somewhere
But
For that
You need to straighten the CONSTITUTION
And put it into it’s proper alignment.

CALVARITES PLEASE ALSO NOTE:

When you go round and round in a very, very wide circle
You may really think you are walking in a straight line!
DON’T GET DECEIVED!

NO!!
I am not suggesting we throw out CC’s computer
Just delete the gliches..........!
GOTO 00 for answer.

Why are we so slow to learn? Why??!! Why??!!; June 28, 2009 at 1:40 PM
Calvarites, please embrace Kingdom perspective said...: I was in SIB this morning and saw other Calvarites who were first time visitors. They praised God for opening their spiritual eyes. They missed so much in a carnal church. Now, the events in CC help more members to experience 'living water' in other churches - spirit-filled ones.

SP speaks as if Christianity revolves around CC. Many were blinded until they experience great joy in spirit and great liberty in worship. In CC, at DH, if it is not Ps Chris then it is Ps Steven who leads in worship. Whereas, in DUMC and SIB, it is always team worship.

In CC, it's all paid professionals all the way - worship, communion, sermon, announcement and prayer. Clergy rules; laity laid back and enjoy. This type of service negates the body of Christ ministry.

Calvarites, visit other churches and see and experience yourself the awesome presence and works of God. God wants us to embrace the Kingdom, not a church. Worship with other saints in His body. God can and will help you see the Kingdom perspective of His Church and His work.; June 28, 2009 at 3:46 PM
The Battle is the Lord's said...: Dear beloved brothers and sisters in Christ,
Many of us hv suffered both spiritually and emotionally over the past year, having been witch hunted by the church leadership and consistently persecuted for 'causing trouble'. While we seem to fight endlessly for truth and transparency, it would seem like we often end up going against a brick wall as PG has cunningly set up the constitution to protect him and his family from all the wrongdoings and sins that they have committed over the years. Furthermore, they have a group of blinded and manipulated BOD who seems to be willing to lay down their life for mammon rather than for God.
My word of encouragement to all of you is that when all things seem to fail, when evil seems to triumph over good, that is when God is able to show His sovereign power. What man cannot do, God can do without a doubt. God has given PG enough chances to repent, but it looks like PG's heart (like the Pharaoh of Egypt) has been hardened and he clearly thinks he is above God. Vengeance is the Lord's and PG's time will come.
As for the rest of you who are still fighting the good fight of faith(I have since left Calvary and am happily serving in another church), I pray for God's strength to be upon you all. The Battle is the Lord's!; June 28, 2009 at 7:52 PM
Feet Washer said...: TO: Calvarites, please embrace Kingdom perspective
JUNE 28, 2009 3:46 PM

I rejoice with you that you have found a great spiritual refreshing in attending SIB. Pastor Weng Chee was a fellow schoolmate of mine in Victoria Institution. He was an exemplary Christian then and is still one now. My son goes there too as the youth ministry is very strong.

But I do hope that you will keep your membership in Calvary. There many souls there who have been led up the wrong garden path and they are hurting and confused. So pray for Calvary and come back once in a while.

One day God will deliver this church off its hedonistic oppression and your vote may be the deciding factor. So grow strong in SIB and come back to help us with a greater faith.

PG WAS a good evangelist ONCE but is an absolute disaster as a pastor. He has no gifting whatsoever in this area and God, thankfully & mercifully has not given him any other gift of the Holy Spirit. Otherwise his egotistical attitude will know no bounds. We must learn to be thankful for such small graces. God bless.; June 28, 2009 at 9:34 PM
Feet Washer said...: TO: black sheep said... June 28, 2009 11:26 AM

I strongly agree with you on your three points. RC to me was a total whimp! Pastor was his mentor and I guess he has yet to cut off the apron strings. What a disgrace this is at his age.

Tragically he failed to realise that his ultimate responsibility as the Chairman of an AGM was to be neutral.

He is also Deputy Superintendent of the AOG Council. If this is the best that he can do at his stature then there is nothing really much to talk about concerning the AOG group of churches.

PT will never pass the reality test. Just a mouth. Wait for the next AGM.

Beating around the bush is something people do when there is little up there.

I hope, black sheep, that you will continue to blog with us. You do not know just how many out there who identify with you and get really encouraged. Lets encourage each other as brothers and sisters in Christ We are on the same journey you know. God bless!; June 28, 2009 at 10:04 PM
A Very Very Greedy Senior Pastor said...: The following is in support of comments by "Greedy Senior Pastor" at 10:23am on 28th Jun 2009.

I remember many years back, PG said "there are many organisations out there that are soliciting for funds, you DON'T have to give them. You just give to CC & you tell them to approach CC, we will give to them".

At that point, it sounded logical to Calvarites that we may not know which is a bogus organisation so we could just give to CC & let CC deal with them.

Praise Be To God that He has used the TTG members to expose how PG has been siphoning CC funds (for years) to his personal ministry (CIM). Now we know why PG does NOT want us to give to other organisations (Christian or non-Christian) so that he will get his hands on ALL our givings.

In deed PG is a Very Very Greedy Senior Pastor who is NO longer fit to be called a pastor. PG has lost his calling & his anointing for, at least, 10 -12 years.

PG, it's time for you to go; kindly do so gracefully on your own. Don't infuriate God further, lest He may remove you Himself ....; June 28, 2009 at 10:25 PM
FATAL CONCEIT said...: Calvary Leaders, fear not when your fellow members visit other churches.

A good bird, when released from the cage, will fly back to the cage if the owner is a good one. In case the bird refuses to come back, it tells a lot about the owner.

I urge CC leaders not to persecute members who visit other churches with another witch-hunt. It does CC no good. Instead do join other members to other churches and learn how they do church. Remaining in your own cocoon does you no good.

So, be wise. Let your members out of the CC cage and test if they come back. If they do, the church is still on the right track. If they don't, just take stock and learn from mistake.

If you still don't learn from mistake, please read FATAL CONCEIT by RICHARD W. DORTCH (former President of PTL who went to jail and a good friend of SP) who penned these words, "How the Deception of POWER Becomes Every Man's Trap".; June 28, 2009 at 10:38 PM
SPOT the Difference said...: WHAT A CONTRAST

Indeed, the Word preached in CC and that of SIB.. are poles apart, my take out from the latter message today:

God's heart is first and foremost for the Poor, the disadvantaged, the captives.., and He has devised His ways/laws in the Old Testament to ensure they were cared for, and in the New Testament, it is through Christ Jesus.

We ought to give out of Love, for God is Love,
and not give expecting to be blessed (which is then for selfish gain!), which the latter has always been CC's emphasis--"You want to be blessed you give"
The subtlety is not easily differentiated.

However, if one truly thirst & hunger for God's righteousness, He directs us where His true Word is found.; June 28, 2009 at 10:41 PM
God's WAY is way higher said...: Hi CT,

A job well done with all the audio clippings. Besides, voting and associates, all CC worshippers and the world can get to hear what transpired in the AGM.

SP and BOD thought they were smart by putting all kinds of restrictions - voting members, 2 Q; associate members, cannot vote and NOW cannot speak; other worshippers, sorry NO observers.

BUT, God is no respecter of man, including leaders. I believe HE gave great wisdom to whoever posted these clippings. God wants to expose the misdeeds of SP, BOD and NOW AOG. They are all in one boat. They follow one another to 'mislead' the congregation.

Let's pray that God's cleansing fire will consume these misdeeds.

Press on for the Lord. You are indeed the instrument for God; June 28, 2009 at 11:36 PM
Feet Washer said...: TO: Greedy Senior Pastor said... June 28, 2009 10:23 AM

I can identify with most of what you say. Concerning milking money from people it is his modus operandi since I came to the church in the 70ties. But I must admit this – in all sincerity I have never seen anyone so good at doing it. And he does it without even a blink of an eye! Don’t get me wrong. This is not a commendation.

All the other pastors appreciate this “gift” of his. After all there so much money can do for them. And it takes less faith to trust PG that to trust God.

I myslelf have given much to Calvary until I could’nt even send all my children overseas to study. I am representative of milked cash-cows. But I hear pastors in Calvary are able to send their children overseas!

But let us be very careful. Money, after all, is one of the three commonest causes of the downfall of ministers. The other two are sex and pride.

I have never heard of G warmly cooperating with other Christian organisations unless there is a hidden agenda . I knew, even in those days, that he was obscessively fearful of his sheep (and money)going away.

He has also been striving feverishly to be the fastest growing church in the region. Nothing inherently wrong with that except we should always remain humble give glory to God. And also to recognise the efforts contributed by everyone else. Never forget what the Apostle Paul said: 1Co 3:6 I have planted, Apollos watered, but GOD GAVE THE INCREASE.

Your account about the double offering collection made me laugh. They have been doing this so often for so long that their conscience have already been thoroughly numbed. It says in 1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron.

I remember the case of a very well-known teacher, Reverend John Gallock, diseased, who blessed us tremendously. There was a very enthusiasm call to the congregation to be generous in our giving. Everyone supported the call. And after the collection they were very very cheeky indeed to give him RM 200. Justification – cost of bringing him to Calvary. We felt so ashamed. But our pastors were stone-faced. Reverend John Gallock was hurt. I laughed. I laugh at these people who can think people are so undiscerning.

But do you know what? God did not laugh that day. What an outrageously shabby treatment of His servant?

I can perceive that all these ill-treatment of other people are slowly but surely catching up, not only with PG but also with all the other pastors and BOD!; June 28, 2009 at 11:43 PM
Feet Washer said...: TO: "What you give to Missions is NOT for you to question" PG said... June 28, 2009 9:23 AM

As you have rightly noticed about the Missions Manual it is quite obvious the PG-BOD-Missions does not want to be accountable to anyone. I also have a very high suspicion that soon, in the not distant future, as PG gains more and more power, he will not even want to be accountable to the BOD, the Missions Director and Missions Committee. Then what??

ER, like a real perfect stooge, is cooperating with Missions department to “hide” infamous money to CIM under "Missions & Evangelism" so as to render it not visible to the untrained eye like myself. I am glad that there now innumerable people with very discerning eyes looking at every item in reports like a hawk. And it has to be this way because people have turn deceitful.

I can foresee, at least, that in the next two decades pastors and deacons will be held with utmost mistrust and absolute suspicion!; June 28, 2009 at 11:56 PM
Feet Washer said...: TO: BOD to cut SP and SAP salary to 2K said... JUNE 28, 2009 12:46 AM

Yes it is really messy. The original intent of the Church Handbook was to have pastors retired at 60 or 55. BOD, under a spell, from which evil forces I do not know, decided not to follow the Church Handbook. But there is nothing under the constitution that spells out clearly when they are to retire. BOD, then swooning under this same spell decided to state that PG has no retirement. This means he works until he dies.

But not so for PG2....she HAS retire at 60 and she around 67. But she has become so thick-skinned
that she refuses to get out. There three reasons for this messy stalemate.

1.Shameles PG1, PG2
2.PG1 & PG2 can do but won’t do
3.BOD would do only for PG; June 29, 2009 at 12:21 AM
Not fool by Faith Promise said...: I have been attending calvary church since 1980s it is with a heavy heart that I have to find another church for spiritual food. I noticed that in recent years since SP's so-called vision to built CCC he is constantly asking CC members to give, give give towards CCC, faith promise and missions but he himself is practising keep keep keep. Since CCC is facing financial problems why don't SP set a good example by giving his $$$ since he is paid highly and have properties and bank accounts in M'sia and overseas. Why does SP kept asking CC members, most of whom earn very much less than him to give, when he is not using the money for the furtherance of God's kingdom in winning lost souls.

I have not given to faith promise since day one cos I knew that SP is not a good steward of CC's members hard earned money.; June 29, 2009 at 12:28 AM
SPOT ON said...: NO WONDER!

Now, it is clear-- often times there are instances where Deacon's wife, member's spouse and individuals who continue to give to CC IN SPITE of the deviation of the Word from the pulpit, because of fear of loosing their blessings.

Similarly, these people also held back from "speaking-up" or stand-up for TTG Cause, for the same reason.

Oh, how PG has misguided many!; June 29, 2009 at 12:39 AM
Feet Washer said...: IN REPLY TO : A Very Very Greedy Senior Pastor said... June 28, 2009 10:25 PM

I agree with you that the members and leaders of CC i.e. PG helped God build Calvary Church which patterned after his own character – self-centred, selfish and in isolation from other churches. This is absolutely wrong. The leaders of CC show very few gifts of the Holy Spirit. Our members could have experienced more from other churches and grown.; June 29, 2009 at 12:42 AM
Wake Up Calvarites! said...: Many have been deceived to think that CC is growing. But think again.

1) We now have only about 2000+ members
2) People are withdrawing membership from CC
3) People leaving CC.

Pray that God will bring restoration of righteousness to CC!; June 29, 2009 at 9:51 AM
Anonymous said...: The whole audio left me 'STONE'. If I am present, this will be my impression and ACTION:-
1. May continuous Yawning
2. May stand up and keep clapping my hands as no one is allow to cheer, agree or say amen except to Chairman (Next, I will bring flashlight and flash my dis-agreement at chairman)
3. May have gone bonker like.. those who suffer from nervous breakdown.
4. May even run amok!

Q - How can SP threaten member to canx their membership if anyone dare make noise when he is not the chair?

The Chairman runs AGM like a classroom - I say, you listen and no question!

We are no dummies. God make us whole and fortunately/unfortunately, our fore father ate the apple and that's where we are today, knowing the right and wrong. We dare to stand correct and AP/SAP/AP/Chairman, do you???

I would like to point out on Gifts received which till today I cannot accept after the 'small meet' set by BODs which disturb me till today.

I dont understand why our HIGHLY PAID PASTORS ACCEPTED GIFTS (note - there's no indication on what ever amount) but not anyone else. I cannot imagine that SP willingly accept a 200K vehicle gift compare to other poor unpaid volunteer whom someone wants to bless for a simple RM50 or even less.

Take note: All gifts are QUIETLY received and enjoy. Not once gift accepted was askED to the members if it is OK to accept nor any suggestion to set the limit to avoid 'talk' but only announce when people query.

DONT ANY FEEL IT IS WRONG TO ACCEPT THAT BIG ??? WORST THE PERSON WHO RECEIVE THEM THINK IT IS RIGHT. This is simply obnoxiuos!!! I can't find a word to describe but a simple GREED for a start! the rest of the the words followed....; June 29, 2009 at 11:00 AM
Greedy Senior Pastor's Lackey said...: Pastor Peter Ong,

I still address you as Pastor even though I have lost my respect for you.

When you bravely defended Prince by saying that, "Pastors have a calling," do you mean Prince Guneratnam, and yourself, and all the other Associate Pastors and Assistant Pastors of Calvary Church, have a CALLING to fleece God's sheep, to exploit and rob them, to steal from the church treasury & to lie without blinking an eye?

Aren't you deceiving yourself? You can't fool us because we know God's Word says, ...

"1 And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,

2 Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel, prophesy, and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD unto the shepherds; Woe be to the shepherds of Israel that do feed themselves! should not the shepherds feed the flocks?

3 Ye eat the fat, and ye clothe you with the wool, ye kill them that are fed: but ye feed not the flock.

4 The diseased have ye not strengthened, neither have ye healed that which was sick, neither have ye bound up that which was broken, neither have ye brought again that which was driven away, neither have ye sought that which was lost; but with force and with cruelty have ye ruled them.

5 And they were scattered, because there is no shepherd: and they became meat to all the beasts of the field, when they were scattered.
(Ezekiel 34:1-5, KJV); June 29, 2009 at 11:44 AM
Greedy Senior Pastor said...: Dear Feet Washer,

I am appalled to hear that Reverend John Gallock was only given RM200/- for coming all the way over to KL to share his testimony & to preach the Word! If this amount was given by a small church it is understandable, but Calvary Church in those days was already known far & wide as a 'rich man's church.' Then why did they mistreat their fellow-servant, Gallock, by witholding the people's love offerings from him? I was there, too, when Gallock was the speaker, I gave him my love offering as well - looks like Prince Guneratnam had SXXXXX God's blessings from Gallock - I hope he had forgiven the PRINCE of txxxxxx, Guneratnam, before he passed away (does your 'diseased' mean 'deceased'?); June 29, 2009 at 11:54 AM
A Very Very Greedy Senior Pastor said...: Dear Greedy Senior Pastor,

Like you, I too had the impression that Feet Washer meant "deceased" & NOT "diseased" when he referred to Rev. John Gallock. If however, we are wrong & Feet Washer is right, then our apologies to Rev. John Gallock & his folks.

Btw, am I right to read that your SXXXXX = SIPHON & your txxxxxx = tyranny? If so then your last sentence would read thus ....

"I was there, too, when Gallock was the speaker, I gave him my love offering as well - looks like Prince Guneratnam had SIPHON God's blessings from Gallock - I hope he had forgiven the PRINCE of tyranny, Guneratnam, before he passed away (does your 'diseased' mean 'deceased'?)"

Well, like I said PG has been siphoning CC funds (our money) for years. Now he is exposed by God not men because God reveals & allows the TTG members to see PG's misdeeds - siphoning of RM 1.9m over the years, various misdeeds as revealed by Dr Lum, etc., etc. ....; June 29, 2009 at 12:23 PM
Anonymous said...: Can someone help me? I get so agitated and develope hypertension in AGM and I am more confused than ever after listening to the audios.

What I hear....
Reject by BOD
Not constitutional
NO! Sit down
Not open for discussion
Raise to EGM
No cheering
No noise
no this, No that, NO everything, NO NO NO NO NO ......

What is the AGM actually for?

Since AGM is supposed to be one way, why dont just publish in News Paper or in Calvary website. Dont waste my time!!!

Do you realize that this is what we call DICTATORSHIP? What is MINE is MINE, What is YOURS' is also MINE and what's not MINE are all MINE!

Please be aware, you cannot take material item to your grave.

BODs and those who assisted in this injustice AGM, be mindful, you have already lost all your credential. The good news is... it's still not too late... you still have time to save the situation. Go quickly now before the door is close.; June 29, 2009 at 2:39 PM
Not fool by Faith Promise said...: This Sunday (5.7.09)is Faith Promise day. Before any CC members give please remember the following :-

1) SP have been disrespectful to
all CC voting members by not
allowing them to exercise their
voting rights during the
recent AGM. If SP does not
treat us as part of CC why
then does he want us to
give under the disguise of
faith promise. From the 2008
accounts it is clear that most
of the money given under faith
promise was kept in fixed
deposits not for winning
souls.

2) Associate members were not
allowed to speak so why ask
money from them when they were
not treated with respect.

3) The money collected might be
used to pay for CCC and not
for the many hungry people out
there.

However, if God direct you to give than be it so as SP is answerable to God for whatever he does with the money. Otherwise practise TOTT; June 29, 2009 at 3:13 PM
Feet Washer said...: REPLY TO: Greedy Senior Pastor said... June 29, 2009 11:54 AM

(does your 'diseased' mean 'deceased'?) Ya you are right. If there were any disease the infective agent would have been the homo sapiens who called for the offering.

You also gave huh? In positive note, be assured that if you did it for the right reasons, despite the poor intent of others, God would have blessed you. And I am sure he must have because you are still serving Him. Amen!

I am confident that Reverend Gallock forgave. Godly people forgive even while they are hurting. Let us strive to do the same.; June 29, 2009 at 3:58 PM
Unknown said...: THE GREATEST HOUDINI STUNT IN THE HISTORY OF CALVARY CHURCH!

WHAT IS THIS GREAT DECEPTION?

THAT PG CONTROLS US!

THE REALITY IS:

YOU ACTUALLY CONTROL PG AND ALL THE OTHER PASTORS & BOD TOO

BUT PG has DECEIVED YOU ALL INTO THINKING THAT HE CONTROLS YOU.

AND IT IS YOUR FAULT!

LISTEN:
YOU ARE THE CASH-COWS (no disrespect intended)

WHO CONTROLS WHETHER YOU GIVE MONEY OR NOT? YOU!

If no money flows in, SO WHAT IF PG’s SALARY IS 25K OR 100K OR 1 M per month?

IF THERE IS NO CASH THERE IS NO CASH!

AND YOU ALSO CONTROL CCC, CIM, CLM, CCM and whatever Ms there are!
( I have a sneaky suspicion , though uncertain, all the Ms in is for MONEY)

NOW ONCE YOU UNDERSTAND THIS THEY WILL TRY TO FRIGHTEN YOU

They will point fingers at you and say, "You Dare try to sabotage the Kingdom of GOD"

(We are not withholding cash from the Lord’s Kingdom. We are only withholding it temporarily until we (WE) appoint leaders whom we (WE) can trust !!!

Remember the 7 steps:

1)Stop the cash flowing in
2)Pastors will have no pay
3)They will be brought to their knees
4)PG will come BEGGING to negotiate
5)CC members should change the whole leadership
6)CC members give offerings again
7)CC members serve God again with true JOY & TRUST

ONE MORE VERY IMPORTANT HURDLE

HYK, announced in the AGM, while MOST PEOPLE were leaving and not paying attention (deceitful strategy that smells of PG) that the leaders are considering selling CHURCH assets worth 52M.

No one responded
DOES SILENCE MEAN YOU HAVE GIVEN THEM YOUR CONSENT??

DON’T LET THE LEADERS SELL THE ASSETS AT ALL COST. Otherwise they will have cash to last for sometime.

Remember, in a dry spell even King Ahab went running looking for Elijah.; June 29, 2009 at 5:18 PM
Apostle said...: IN REPLY TO: Not fool by Faith Promise said...

Thanks for your input. I agree with you totally. PG does not show any graciousness in relating to his sheep. In fact he abuses them. The real wonder of it all is they still give him 25K per month (excluding perks) To me that is bizarre behaviour almost to the extent of being freakish.

In the home, if parents abuse their children they are taken to task by the authorities. The relevant authority in this regard ought to be the AOG Council but they have proven themselves to be totally impotent.

I am so glad that you have not been fooled by the Faith Promise program. But many are. Many are confused with regards to what faith and what promises is this PG taking about . Is he also unsure himself? Is that why he has asked Rev. Guynes to speak. I’ll wager with you. You’ll get another definition come Missions Sunday!

Ask all the pastors too and all will give a different story.

You know I am sure that the word “Faith Promise” is not found in the bible?

You know what wise people do? When there uncertainty you always WAIT.

YEPP! Let TOTT together.; June 29, 2009 at 5:48 PM
GIFTS GALORE said...: CORRECTION
Anonymous 29 Jun 11am

"...I cannot imagine that SP willingly accept a 200K vehicle gift compare to other poor unpaid volunteer whom someone wants to bless for a simple RM50 or even less."

The Facts are:
1. The vehicle 'gift' to SP/PG was a VOLVO of approx. RM450,000+ and not RM200K.
And by the way he said it was a "personal' gift, YET its costly maintenance comes from the church! in addition to his official car under the church!

2.Mrs PG ( PG2) also received a vehicle 'gift' HONDA CIVIC worth RM 125,000 from a bosom *pastor friend from S'pore.

Frankly, they have gone so 'up-market & big time' ordinary gifts like household items are shunned! So, those who plan to buy gifts, be sure you are thinking of 'blink-blink', cars or equivalent in kind or CA$H, otherwise don't bother.

Notice how these *'pastors of the same feathers' flock together to enrich themselves. ( wonder what PGs gave them in return-a condo? !); June 29, 2009 at 6:04 PM
Greedy Senior Pastor said...: Dear "A Very, Very Greedy SP,"

It was a good guess but not correct....The blog administrator censored those two words by putting in XXXX...! hahaha..at least they didn't censor the whole comment! Tks, CT!

"Btw, am I right to read that your SXXXXX = SIPHON & your txxxxxx = tyranny? If so then your last sentence would read thus ....

I was there, too, when Gallock was the speaker, I gave him my love offering as well - looks like Prince Guneratnam had SIPHON God's blessings from Gallock - I hope he had forgiven the PRINCE of tyranny, Guneratnam, before he passed away (does your 'diseased' mean 'deceased'?)"

SXXXXX = (clue: synoym of robbed)
tXXXXXX = (clue: there was this movie about Robin Hood?)

Try again! Maybe I used two too strong words, but it was how I felt at that time...!; June 29, 2009 at 6:16 PM
SEE -THROUGH said...: It's so unlike Rev Guynes, to be heard saying this:

" I bring my 6 months tithes over (from USA) and paying in advance to CC..."

Firstly, his first announcement on 15 Aug 08 of this was already thought to be in 'bad taste'--we have been taught to keep our givings to God private, and not boast in any way.

Then at the recent AGM, he repeated the same story!

One can't help but conclude that he did what he did because, either PG/PG2 had hinted it would be a good idea to tell the congregation as a 'testimony', or Rev Guynes himself didn't even know he was so manipulated & influenced by PG's ways, he sincerely thought he would perhaps encourage members into doing the same.

Many old members who know the roots of CC are deeply saddened that Rev Guynes has been sucked into the web spun by PG & BOD. [Any wonder he is being 'used' again to promote Faith Promise this Sunday:( ]; June 29, 2009 at 6:30 PM
Blind once but not always said...: A Pastor who does not fellowship with his congregation can be a dangerous man. He is afraid of being asked. He must have things to hide.

A shepherd not found with his sheep is no shepherd. It is as simple as ABC.

But, learned like Calvarites just can't see. They are blinded. Don't worry. I'm also one of them..blinded for years..but now not so blind.; June 29, 2009 at 6:41 PM
Apostle said...: IN RESPONSE TO: Anonymous said... JUNE 29, 2009 2:39 PM

I really don’t blame you for getting so agitated and got your BP raised in AGM. I fail many times to react in godly ways. I do, however, take solace in recalling that Jesus, our God and Saviour, overturn tables, used the whip and chased the money-lovers right out of the temple (can you just imagine the scene? And the temple wasn’t a pint-size one you know). And I say to Him, Lord if that is what you want I will be very very happy to be really, really obedient. Hey! I am only joking, OK!

It seems that the favourite word in the AGM was no. I have also observed that parents who have nothing else to say but no are invariable very, very poor parents. Do not imitate them. They represent the degenerate kind whom you can watch (to amuse yourself) but never follow. (You know... what we used to say when we were younger - that kind also got huh? and we laugh and laugh... not at ourselves mind you!)

Can’t you smell a freshness in the air. It is heralding the coming of a new season. You just wait and see. Psa 30:5 weeping may endure for a night, but joy cometh in the morning. Gal 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

Meanwhile keep your own pressure down but theirs up...... as high you possibly can.

Please remember this very simple principle: No minister, no matter how egoistical, can survive with the money you give IF IT IS VERY, VERY LITTLE.

Did you really understand me? This principle allows you dry him up and you can still honestly say you have not stop giving !!; June 29, 2009 at 6:43 PM
Pastoral Gift-exchange said...: Talking of gifts to Pastors. Really the congregation spoilt them. But, Pastors do give to one another..of course not from their pockets but from the nice congregation.

Prince got a Volvo T90. Petrina got a Civic 1.8. Brand new when CCC was just started. The fact they received them opened my eyes. THey were just insensitive. Where is the greater need..CCC (if it's true) or change new cars. Changing cars is not a need. They claimed it's a gift from Singapore. Then, why didn't they suggest to the giver to give to CCC???

Robert Lim boastfully said his church gave 8 cars (if I'm correct) to other Pastors. Sad if his congregation is unaware. Not surprise as this AG's way of gift exchange among Pastors - the only anointed of God, the only man chosen by God to lead and head the local assembly. How wrong can this theology be in the AG?

The question remains.. why did Prince accept the Volvo knowing he has no need? Why did Petrina received knowing she has no need? Why did this church in S-pore give when she has no need? Lots of explanation to God and the congregation.; June 29, 2009 at 6:58 PM
Apostle said...: IN RESPONSE TO: A Very Very Greedy Senior Pastor said... June 29, 2009 12:23 PM

You really hit the nail on the head when you said that PG was exposed by God through the TTG members and Dr Lum. The grave implication of this is when PG and the leaders persecute the TTG members and Dr. Lum they are really doing it to God. The least I can say is that they are really, really extremely daring people.

How can men-of-God persecute God??!!; June 29, 2009 at 7:01 PM
The blind will see said...: IN RESPONSE TO: Greedy Senior Pastor's Lackey said... JUNE 29, 2009 11:44 AM

I am absolutely with you concerning Ezekiel 34:1-5. Several member have brought this up before and I take it as a confirmation and a strong reflection of how the sheep in CC view their pastors. Shameful really. But they are all shameless..... hardened by repeating the same failings over and over again. They way they treat the members in the AGM.........unbearable to hear.

By the way, the tittle “Pastor” for PO is simply inappropriate. I have known him when he was very much younger. He has no pastoral gifting. His gift is in administration and music.

When you said “ he bravely defended PG” I assume you also peppered it with sarcasm. I am aware that many have seen a rat. Unfortunately not many have seen a mouse. They are not the same thing. Mice are tiny, fearful, squeeky little creatures that can literally be swallowed through the mouth. The most appropriate description for PO is he is PG’s little church mouse which he keeps in the back pocket for use whenever a substitute mouth-piece is needed to avoid the line of fire. POOR PO (Heard of the saying, as POOR as a church mouse?) And he is your Missions Director? HA !

One thing I could possibly credit him for, and I am trying hard here – he is very obedient.

He said did he (PO) that "Pastors have a calling". With regards to this I have three things to remind everyone:
1) A tittle “Pastor” to your name is no proof you have been called!
2) To be called is one thing. To live up to your calling is another!
3) If pastors live in sin there may be an uncalling! When the Holy Spirit leaves you, then what calling are you talking about?

Lets end on a high note. In the old days cowboy movies were very popular. A town would be inundated problems - villains, thieves, robbers and swindlers. The people call for a hero. The hero rides into a town. He clears the town of all the filthy, oppressive activities. And then movie ends...with last scene - the hero rides out of town and into the sunset with a western song in the background.

Now ours pastors are no heroes that 's for sure! But we can all still imagine, anyway, them finally riding out of town and into the sunset and hopefully never to come back ever again! (To be kind I am leaving in the sunset)!; June 29, 2009 at 7:57 PM
Unknown said...: MY RESPONSE TO: Anonymous said... JUNE 29, 2009 11:00 AM

I empathize with you concerning your deep frustration during the AGM. What you are witnessing is God-loving people being subjugated to personalities who are living in the confidence (false) of being in power and being powerfully powerful ( Not sure whether it can be described l that way but I rather like it)

Do what is the best way of dealing with frustration. Go to God and pour your heart out to Him. King Hezekiah did the same thing and this was God’s response: 2Ki 20:5 Thus saith the LORD, the God of David thy father, I have heard thy prayer, I have seen thy tears...

Then work along with TTG. Blog with us regularly. When you give input like you did people read and are comforted that they are not the only one. Neither are you. More than 50% of the church members are dead against this whole sham and the number is slowly but surely building up. Lets see who will have the last laugh!

Be assured that things are and will happen through the Lord thy God. Know also this that beings can, before its final breath exhibit powerful myoclonic jerks as if they are going to go forever.

There many encouraging comments on the blog. Read them and ENJOY THEM! And don’t forget how to laugh – the best release for frustration. God bless.; June 29, 2009 at 9:15 PM
EGM Watch said...: CCC needs another 122M.

Where do the funds come from?

1) 20M in FD (ready money)
2) 35M loan (debt)
3) 12M in 2009 Building Fund (projected money)
4) 14M in 2010 surplus (projected money)
5) 41M (disposal, mortgage or sale/leaseback of existing properties) (debt or loss of properties)

Total ready money 20M vs Projected/Debt money 101M.

Next EGM is likely sale of properties. For mortgage, BOD does not need members' approval. Members have mortgaged this power to BOD in 2002 0r 2003. At that time, it's trust. Now, it's trust revisited.; June 29, 2009 at 10:01 PM
EGM Alternatives said...: Next EGM?

1) Sale of church properties, including Damansara Heights!

Why not?

2) Vote of no-confidence on PG and BOD

Members, your comments. What say the life group leaders? What say the early and pioneer members?; June 29, 2009 at 10:43 PM
A Wise Vote for Missions Sunday said...: Missions Sunday is coming.

You can't vote at the last AGM.

But, you can vote this Sunday!

Vote wisely.; June 29, 2009 at 10:46 PM
Missions Sunday Entails said...: In every Missions Sunday, you were given a Faith Promise card and, at the beginning, told to write your name and address only but not the amount till you listened to "God's word".

It's very organised, yet subtle. Remember you were supposed to give to all the budgetted items for how they had performed. Becoz, it's about Faith Promise renewal.

Instead of listening to an invited speaker who likely knew not much about all those recipients, Calvarites should ask to listen to PG on CIM, PG2 on bookshop, Jim on CCM, Pam on CLM, Katherine on CERC, Shireen on CalvaryLand, etc.

Also, check with BCM, NECF, AG, etc. how much they received now versus when PG was the head.

Calvarites, you should not be sloppy when come to stewardship. Don't act on everything being fed to you. Be discerning. Be wise. Demand accountability. Demand truth, transparencies and Godly governance.

If PG and BOD can't gave this type of accountability, seriously reconsider your Faith Promise renewal. You can always give direct to AG (if they still deserve after the recent AGM), NECF, BCM, etc..and many other worthy, noble and needy causes around us.

God holds us accountable as good stewards of His resources to sow/give to needy causes that bring about life and growth in His Great Commission.; June 29, 2009 at 11:58 PM
Feet Washer said...: SEEING THE UNSEEABLE

Not necessarily a trick
Or an illusion
Or a delusion
But just a simple Godly man!

Remember that great show “Matrix”
Where the world was being over-run by myriads of Octapus-like machines
There was this colossal robotic machines called APUs
The tiny human being fits snugly into the machine
And connected in such a way
That minor feeble movements of the man
Is translated, transmitted and amplified into phenomenally powerful movements by the APU
TO DESTROY THE INVINCIBLE !
Comparatively, the man is but a midget
The huge APU is the actual power

God is infinitesimally more power than the APUs
When we snugly, HUMBLY sit in Him
WE become powerful, yet not us
HIM !

PG and his cohorts
Have totally lost it
That little but precious commodity -
HUMILTY
And with that
They have lost EVERYTHING
EVERYTHING
GOD
GOD is everything

I didn’t say they ARE GOING to lose it
I have never been a futuristic sort of person
I said THEY HAVE LOST IT, PERIOD !

PG had the spiritual APU BEFORE
NOT ANY MORE!
YOU HAVE IT
If you cloak yourself with humbleness & humility
YOU CAN ALL RISE UP IN HIM
AGAINST him

That person will never get it back again
Not that God is not merciful
This man is so full of pride and arrogance
He SIMPLY CANNOT BEND HIS KNEES !

Members, Calvarites
Don’t run away
Don’t go to another church
Don’t backslide
Just because of ONE GOD-FORSAKEN SOUL
Come back, come back
Lets do it together
PURGE OUR CHURCH ONCE AND FOR ALL
And purge ourselves too
In this we need have no fear
Those who fear to be purge
Are those who fear to be humble

The LORD IS on my side; I will not fear: what can man do unto me? Psa 118:6

GOD’S LOVE NEVER TOUCHES US THROUGH MANY COLD TITTLES
& INNUMERABLE EGOTISTICAL NAMES
GOD’S LOVE TOUCHES US THROUGH ONE, JUST ONE WARM HEART, SIMPLE & SINCERE
JUST A SINGLE HEART THAT IS ITSELF LOST IN THE LOVE OF GOD

ALL OTHERS - SPURN THEM!
THOSE WHO LOVE, CHERISH, CRAWL AND LUST AFTER THE THINGS OF THIS WORLD
HOW DARE THEY DO THIS
WHEN THE APOSTLE PAUL COUNTED ALL, ALL, ALL OF SUCH AS DUNG? (Phi 3:8)

So dear ones
Are you able to see
SEE THE UNSEEABLE ??

Pray, pray for our church
It is a church lost in a lost world!
YOU CAN SAVE IT & AND THEN GO ON TO SAVE THE REST OF THE WORLD!

If you do not save the church it will be lost along with the lost of the world.

Goodbye!
Sounds alittle abrupt but actually
this word was originally "GOD BE WITH YEE"
But with a little lengthening here and little shortening there.....; June 30, 2009 at 12:18 AM
Take Heed of 7 Churches said...: Hi worshippers in Jesus,

Jesus warns Christians of 7 types of churches in the book of Revelation.

Good to do a study:

A. The church in Ephesus - the church at the close of initial stage.

B. The church in Smyrna - the church under persecution.

C. The church in pergamos - the church married to the world

D. The church in Thyatira - the church in apostasy

E. The church in Sardis - the church in reformation

F. The church in Philadelphia - the church in recovery

G. The church in Laodicea - the church in degradation

There are stark dangers in modern days churches. Emphasis placed too much on the external like mega building and good feeling services with charismatic speakers.

Christ longs for a union and communion with us. Our internal being in Christ is far far more important.

So, becareful of the type of church you attend. Jesus' warning has to be taken seriously. Wise that we take heed. God bless.; June 30, 2009 at 7:30 AM
Absolutely refreshing said...: Wonderful to read from you Feet Washer
And good morning to ALL

{
Members, Calvarites
Don’t run away
Don’t go to another church
Don’t backslide
Just because of ONE GOD-FORSAKEN SOUL
Come back, come back
Lets do it together
PURGE OUR CHURCH ONCE AND FOR ALL
And purge ourselves too
In this we need have no fear
Those who fear to be purge
Are those who fear to be humble
}; June 30, 2009 at 8:30 AM
Greedy Senior Pastor's Lackey said...: Dear "The Blind will see"

Thank you for catching the sarcasm. However, on second thoughts, I should have been more direct by writing, "stupidly defended PG," instead of "Bravely defended PG"!

Some people cannot catch sarcasm & might misunderstand that I was commending Peter Ong! :); June 30, 2009 at 8:57 AM
AOG MALAYSIA Charade said...: Ex Co of AOG Malaysia General Council,

It's time you rise up to do the right thing, instead of hiding your heads in the sand like the ostrich!

If you had nipped this in the bud LAST YEAR, then this matter would have been solved by now, but instead you took the cowards' way out & refrained from DISCIPLINING the rogue ministers, Prince & Petrina Guneratnam.

Matters have gone worse because now one of you, Ronnie Chin, was caught red-handed collaborating with the errant ministers of Calvary Church - this just shows up the biased-ness of AOG Malaysia EX CO.

Come on, be like the Men [& Woman] of God that you claimed to be - do the right thing - discipline these lying, cheating Guneratnams who have brought reproach to the whole Christian movement in the land - be quick to act swiftly against the unrighteous so that the fear of God will come upon the AOG Malaysia.

By keeping silent you are just condoning evil in the Church. What a shameful testimony!; June 30, 2009 at 9:10 AM
Down the walls of Jericho a.k.a Calvary Church said...: Would like to share a word of encouragement I received from Psalm 23:3-4, "He restores my soul; He leads me in the paths of righteousness for His name's sake. Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil; For You are with me; Your rod and Your staff, they comfort me."

The verses above further strengthen the conviction the Lord placed in my heart i.e to continue to fight for Truth, Transparency and Godly Governance in Calvary Church.

Fellow Calvarites whom are concern about the whole saga that's happening in Calvary Church, let us rise up and shine for God. Let us be prepared to bring down the walls of Jericho (Calvary Church) in order for the Lord to rebuild His church, according to His plans and will, and NOT BY ANY INDIVIDUAL. At the end of it all, His name be glorified and magnified.

Shalom.; June 30, 2009 at 10:25 AM
3 BLIND MICE said...: MY REPLY TO:
A Wise Vote for Missions Sunday said...

Amen! And lets do it. And everyone else too.

What a short-change they gave the members at the last AGM.
NOW, on this auspicious Missions Sunday
When pastorial eyes
All carry the $$$$ symbol

LETS SHORT-CHANGE THEM TOO !!
If for nothing else, then just for the fun of it!!
And we can all have a laugh together after that
Via the internet!

CALVARITES
YOU PERPETUAL CASH-COWS
PULL OUT THE MILK-PUMPS
And you will find immediate relief from the squeeze.

There is a simple saying: if you don’t help yourself, WHO WILL???; June 30, 2009 at 11:49 AM
Rich Man said...: MY REPLY TO:
Missions Sunday Entails said... June 29, 2009 11:58 PM

Thanks a million for your guidelines on giving pertaining to Missions Sunday. However, as much as I tried I cannot understand what you are trying to infer by this paragraph:

“Instead of listening to an invited speaker who likely knew not much about all those recipients, Calvarites should ask to listen to PG on CIM, PG2 on bookshop, Jim on CCM, Pam on CLM, Katherine on CERC, Shireen on CalvaryLand, etc.”

?Listen to PG? Well the most I can cooperate with this is “Yes, listen (listening does not cost us anything). But after listening, do the opposite and I can guarantee you won’t be far wrong!

Some cheeky people classified the ministries in that para as “needies”. I tend to think of them as “UNNEEDIES”.

CALVARITES/CASH-COWS, make another history for Calvary: please do not give to the “UN NEEDY”, Rich People’s Version.; June 30, 2009 at 11:53 AM
The blind will see said...: IN REPLY TO: EGM Alternatives said... June 29, 2009 10:43 PM

You mentioned:

1)Sale of church properties, including Damansara Heights!

I cannot fathom the rationale though, sorry. I am guided by an old-fashion principle - It is more difficult to misappropriate fixed properties compared to free cash that is in the millions. My simple logic of remembering this, pardon me, is that fixed properties are fixed and they so big that they cannot pocketed.

2) Vote of no-confidence on PG and BOD

I totally and absolutely back you up on this. I further advise that you should use as many people as possible and do it as many times as possible, disregarding all the rejections of the BOD, until the AOG Council is backed against the wall and the wall BREAKS. Then maybe, they will sit up and listen.

And if the AOG Council still remains impotent (poor things/ bless them) TAKE THE MATTER TO COURT !!

We always say, as Christian SNOBS – the world is out there and they need to be saved.

BUT IN CALVARY THE WORLD IS RIGHT HERE IN US!
We need to be saved .......and soon and maybe even twice over!

May the Lord have mercy on us all!; June 30, 2009 at 11:53 AM
Apostle said...: RESPONDING TO: EGM Watch said... June 29, 2009 10:01 PM

Thanks for the statistics. Referring to your comment “Total ready money 20M vs Projected/Debt money 101M” it really appears we are like trading in futures, one of the most difficult instrument of investing. It takes very smart people in the BOD to do this. Do we have smart people in the BOD? Are we allowed to lynch them.... very gently, in a Christian-like way if the money gets squandered?

Sorry, but I am not assured. From my observation over the many years smart people love to get into the BOD. However, the really, really smart ones get out! PW did not get out. He got butted out.

This statement that you made ie. “CCC needs another 122M” is a very LOADED statement with many half-truths hidden behind. Is the 122M for the 2-storey carpark and the Administrative Block or is it just the Auditorium. Or is it for the whole CCC as the statement seems to imply. Does it include the interior design and furbishing or not or just basic concrete?

I would like to know, for example, what will be the total cost for the offices of PG1,PG2, PM G, JM G and the Meeting room for the BOD including the special shredder for disposing of Board Meeting Minutes.

Is that infamous winged roof structure idea dumped or is it still on? Don’t forget our very very dear sister and my friend Lee Kwee Peng was very severely persecuted for suggesting that the wings will not only cost a bomb but they will give high maintenance problems.

If the installing of the roof wings is now discarded, it implies that Kwee Peng was right and PG to his shame was arrogantly wrong(typical of PG). PG then owes Kwee Peng a public apology! And would, as a good shepherd, go and look for this sheep and bring her back on his shoulders.....er leave out the last part for Kwee Peng’s sake. Every day I will be watching for this to happen. EVERY DAY!

HOW CAN SHEPHARDS ABUSE SHEEP AND GET AWAY WITH IT. HOW CAN??!!; June 30, 2009 at 12:44 PM
Unknown said...: RESPONDING TO:
Down the walls of Jericho a.k.a Calvary Church said... JUNE 30, 2009 10:25 AM

BRAVO ! Thanks for encouraging US ALL with Psalm 23:3-4

Be reminded. When you encourage one you immediatedly encourage 10 other ones thru' that same person.

AND A DOUBLE BRAVO for this statement of yours:

“The verses above further strengthen the conviction the Lord placed in my heart i.e to continue to fight for Truth, Transparency and Godly Governance in Calvary Church”.

We will fellowship together face to face when this charade is over .......and it is happening! Believe me, it is happening!

I feel the wind of the Holy Spirit blowing!; June 30, 2009 at 4:36 PM
Feet Washer said...: RESPONDING TO:

AOG MALAYSIA Charade said... June 30, 2009 9:10 AM

Right on! I agree with you.

It appears the AOG Council just COUNCILS TOGETHER...... COUNCILS TOGETHER..... councils together.....councils together..... .....councils together.....councils together.....councils together.....

..................................................................................................................................................................(This dotted line just above is an ECG showing there no more heart beat and the sheep are all dead!)

AND THE AOG Council just COUNCILS TOGETHER...... COUNCILS TOGETHER.....
councils together.....councils together..... .....councils together.....councils together.....councils together..... .....councils together!

AND THAT IS MY SIMPLE WAY OF SUMMARISING WHY THEY ARE IN THE AOG COUNCIL !; June 30, 2009 at 5:03 PM
Missions Sunday Entails said...: In reply to:
Rich Man said... June 30, 2009 11:53 AM

What does this paragraph means?

“Instead of listening to an invited speaker who likely knew not much about all those recipients, Calvarites should ask to listen to PG on CIM, PG2 on bookshop, Jim on CCM, Pam on CLM, Katherine on CERC, Shireen on CalvaryLand, etc.”

You got it right. As much money are given to these extended ministries, they were the appropriate ones to speak and give accounts/reports. Calvarites hearing them would likely give less or not at all. They have so much accumulated funds and FDs.; June 30, 2009 at 7:34 PM
EGM Watch said...: Replying to Apostle... June 30, 2009 12:44 PM

The 122M is only for completion of auditorium. The rest I heard from Han is core and shelf for Institute Block, Multi-purpose Hall and Language Halls. AV and furnishings will be just basic..not the state of art as planned.; June 30, 2009 at 7:42 PM
Justice for Abused Sheep said...: Dear Apostle,

That was a very interesting question you asked....I feel your pain for your friend Kwee Peng, she's my friend, too!

Let me repeat it here;

"HOW CAN SHEPHARDS ABUSE SHEEP AND GET AWAY WITH IT. HOW CAN??!!"

Can the AOG Malaysia General Council please answer this question?

Lord, is there no justice in the AOG? Will you not avenge your hurting, abused sheep? In Jesus' name, I pray!; June 30, 2009 at 8:39 PM
Not Fool by Faith Promise said...: MY RESPONSE TO : EGM Alternatives June 29, 2009 : 10.43pm

It's pointless to put in a Vote of no-confidence on PG & BOD in another EGM cos they will just not tabled it on the excuse that it is not provided for in the constitution (as can be seen in the recent AGM)). They just do not have the guts to face the truth, that is majority of the members of CC want them out. Remember they even throw out the resolution requesting for the setting up of a Truth Commission. PG and his team of pastors and BOD are "dead" against truth, transparency and good governance.

As for MY RESPONSE TO : Feet Washer June 30,2009 12.18am - "calling on calvarites not to run away, not to go to another church, don't backslide JUST BECAUSE OF ONE GOD-FORSAKEN SOUL" I have this to say :-

I appreciate your concern and will stay on in CC till truth, transparency and good governance is restore. However, church "hunters" have been assigned (I supposed it's PG instruction)in recent months to be on the look-out for TTG supporters and to terminate them as voting or associate members. Until I am "ex-out" by them I will support CT fight for TTG.; June 30, 2009 at 10:42 PM
Apostle said...: AS A FOLLOW UP TO:
Justice for Abused Sheep said... June 30, 2009 8:39 PM

CONCERNING AOG COUNCIL:

We will work with you
Failing which
WE WILL WORK WITHOUT YOU

You have forgotten
You were parents before
When your three year-old child falls
Sustain a deep gash
From ear to ear
Would just stand there
Stone faced
Without a care ???

Maybe you tried
You sent Ronnie Chin
Now less reverend than ever before
Who came and stood on one side
Did you not know?

And do you all not know?
A simple fundamental
Neutrality
Is not for the pros
And It is also not for the cons
It is always somewhere between
Between the pros and cons !

My call to you all Council people
If you can’t do anything
Get your butt out
And let someone else in who can !!
You have forced this upon yourselves.

You came with nothing, you did nothing, now you can go with nothing.
And we will remember you as good-for-nothing!
This the first time I am dealing with people who are trying so hard to do nothing.....must be very hard work!

Dr Lum and Lalitha
WE HAVE NOT FORGOTTEN YOU
Remember the passover
The night when you should be ready to run
To run back to a NEW CALVARY.
IT IS HAPPENING SOON!

If you have worked in a cowshed before
You will appreciate that cleaning the dung is extremely smelly and messy.

I am just speaking the truth in laugh! Eph 4:15; June 30, 2009 at 11:31 PM
Down the walls of Jericho a.k.a Calvary Church said...: To Rich Man,

Thanks very much for your encouragement too. Yes, we will definitely celebrate together when the time comes. When the Lord begins to work His ways, NOBODY, not even Satan can stop Him! Yea, the wind of the Holy Spirit is blowing; the wind of change is happening. Let us prepare ourselves to be used as a mighty force by God to rebuild Calvary Church and the AOG.

Shalom.; July 1, 2009 at 9:33 AM
Confused said...: Can some learned person please clarify this for me:

What do you mean by - "Someone departed from the Tenants of Faith".; July 1, 2009 at 10:24 AM
Lets Be Encouraged said...: The shame and disgrace in CC leadership continues...the reason being they refused to acknowledge their sins but chose to remain under cover.

" There is a generation that is pure in its own eyes,
yet is not washed from its filthiness." Proverbs 30:12

Nevertheless, all that is under cover will be exposed in due time.

" There is nothing covered that will not be revealed,
and hidden that will not be known." Matthew 10:26

God is a righteous God and He will not allow His church to be oppressed by His shepherds who were called to care for His sheep.

"The Lord also will be a refuge for the oppressed,
a refuge in times of trouble." Psalm 9:9

God hears all our cries to Him for help.
" Call to Me, and I will answer, and show you great and mighty things, which you do not know." Jeremiah 33:3

God is a God of justice and truth. PG, PG2, APs and BOD who use devious ways to hang onto positions/ power by using authority through the establishment (AOG Council) and oppressing the sheep will face God's judgment in due time. God shall not be mocked by mere men!

"Though they join forces, the wicked will not
go unpunished; but the posterity of the righteousness will be delivered." Proverbs 11:21

OUR GOD REIGNS!; July 1, 2009 at 10:29 AM
WHAT"S NEW? said...: EGM Watch said...June 30, 2009 7:42 PM
"The 122M is only for completion of auditorium. The rest I heard from Han is core and shelf for Institute Block, Multi-purpose Hall and Language Halls. AV and furnishings will be just basic..not the state of art as planned."

REMEMBER!!! WE WERE TOLD BY PG & GANG THEY WANTED CCC TO BE THE BEST IN EVERTHING( Architecture, lighting, ID, what have you) FOR GOD. Alas, NOW, what is the END RESULT?-- everything COMPROMISED!

PROVEN again & again & again PG & BOD, TWIST& TURN and change goal post to get out when they are 'caught/ exposed of their manipulation, deception,lying.. it's just so despicable.; July 1, 2009 at 2:17 PM
A CAUTION said...: A respond to '3 Mlind Mice said'...June 30, 2009 11:49 AM

“…LETS SHORT-CHANGE THEM TOO !! If for nothing else, then just for the fun of it!! And we can all have a laugh together after that Via the internet! ”

Just wish to inform you that those of us who are for TTG CAUSE, are SERIOUS with the real issues and any actions proposed are in NO Way for “just for the fun of it!!” nor “ for laughter”

So, if you an advocate of TTG Cause, please be mindful how you may express yourself as it can be misconstrued, and inadvertently hurt the TTG CAUSE.; July 1, 2009 at 3:20 PM
Unknown said...: RESPONDING TO:

Not Fool by Faith Promise said... June 30, 2009 10:42 PM
Referring to your statement:

“I appreciate your concern and will stay on in CC till truth, transparency and good governance is restore. However, church "hunters" have been assigned (I supposed it's PG instruction)in recent months to be on the look-out for TTG supporters and to terminate them as voting or associate members. Until I am "ex-out" by them I will support CT fight for TTG”.

I really appreciate your stand and that is what we must do. Stand. Not many people realise that there is no such thing as NO RIGHTS even if a person is not a member. When people contribute finances they actually have some rights. No body can be axed for no reason and and it has to be done by a wriiten letter. Keep that letter. It is their declaration of reasons to be sacked and it can used to show unfairness in the law courts.

BUT NUMBERS IS A GOOD AND PRACTICAL WAY. There are also rights in numbers.
If say 80% of members come together & challenge PG in the courts I am sure they will rule in favour of the majority. And the AOG has to give support.

Lastly the constitution is NOT the final ruling document. The bible is. If the constitution contradicts the bible or the tenets of faith there is a good chance it can be fought in court.

That is why the members must not go away and the CALVARITE DIASPORA must return home!; July 1, 2009 at 6:21 PM
3 BLIND MICE said...: ANSWERING:

A CAUTION said... July 1, 2009 3:20 PM

Point noted. Meant no harm but realise the repercussion it can cause. I sense people are weighed down by all that is happening. Just wanted to brighten and lighten their outlook. Nevertheless point is taken. GB; July 1, 2009 at 6:33 PM
Unknown said...: MY COMMENT TO:

WHAT"S NEW? said... JULY 1, 2009 2:17 PM

All these verbal comments are fine for just general information. However, they are not dependable and can easily be denied and/or altered. These people should give regular black & white reports to the members. After all it is not just their project. This will cut down all the twists and turns. Snakish. I mean sneakish; July 1, 2009 at 6:49 PM
the dynasty said...: Back in the eighties, there was a tv drama series named "Dynasty". Today we have "The Dynasty" in our own yard.

I was going through the 2008 Extended Ministries Financial Report and made the following observations.

There are 12 extended ministries and the "G" siblings hold four ministries.

(1) AIM - Director Pam Guneratnam,
with RM 80k in FD;
(2) CLM - Director Pam Guneratnam,
with RM 532k in FD;
(3) Calvary Book Centre - Director
Jim Guneratnam, with RM
78.7 k in FD;
(4) Calvary Communications Ministry
- Director Jim Guneratnam
with RM 806k in FD.

The G siblings are designated "Directors" in their ministries and they head 4 out of 12 ministries. Are they paid as head of their ministries respectively? If yes, wow! Double income! None of the other ministries are led by directors. They are designated Ministry Head, Administrator and a Supervisor. And none heads 2 ministries at the same time.

If this is not a dynasty, I do not know what it is. Nepotism? maybe. This is a glaring example of a dynastic setup. Just look at the FD's CCM and CLM have. Why are these 2 ministries holding so much money? Where will these monies go to? Why are these parked in these ministries when the Church is going for a loan for CCC and pay more interest for the load than these ministries can earn in FD interest?

Thus all can see that the CEO of CC has always and will always bestow preferential treatment to his family members. If you are not a "G", you will not be a "Director". You are only a "Ministry Head" or an Administrator as in Calvary Church Press.

The CEO in CC puts Blake Carrington in the tv drama Dynasty to shame.; July 1, 2009 at 8:16 PM
Unknown said...: MY COMMENTS TO YOU:
the dynasty said... July 1, 2009 8:16 PM

The figures tell it all. Can you, dynasty, tell me how to change my name to G, legally or by deception it doesn’t matter (all these are ok in Calvary Church). I want a good job with CC, have no retirement, earn plenty plenty, hoard money and live up to my psedonymn.

Then I will convert the money to gold, take it to heaven and tell St. Peter (why is it always St. Peter guarding the entrance?) that I have plenty of good stuff for filling the potholes in heaven’s highway’s and byways .

Please continue to read reports and report. Gracias.; July 1, 2009 at 9:02 PM
16 Tenets of Faith said...: Dear Confused @ July 1, 2009 10:24 AM

You asked, What do you mean by -"Someone departed from the Tenants of Faith".

It means that they have DENOUNCED CHRISTIANITY or APOSTASY. That person no longer believes in Jesus Christ and the Bible. That is how serious that statement is.

Here's from the AG website:

These are nonnegotiable tenets of faith that all Assemblies of God churches adhere to. This list is derived from the official Statement of Fundamental Truths.

1. WE BELIEVE...The Scriptures are Inspired by God and declare His design and plan for mankind.
2. WE BELIEVE...There is only One True God–revealed in three persons...Father, Son, and Holy Spirit (commonly known as the Trinity).
3. WE BELIEVE...In the Deity of the Lord Jesus Christ. As God's son Jesus was both human and divine.
4. WE BELIEVE...though originally good, Man Willingly Fell to Sin–ushering evil and death, both physical and spiritual, into the world.
5. WE BELIEVE...Every Person Can Have Restored Fellowship with God Through 'Salvation' (trusting Christ, through faith and repentance, to be our personal Savior). [1 of 4 cardinal doctrines of the AG]
6. WE BELIEVE...and practice two ordinances—(1) Water Baptism by Immersion after repenting of one's sins and receiving Christ's gift of salvation, and (2) Holy Communion (the Lord's Supper) as a symbolic remembrance of Christ's suffering and death for our salvation.
7. WE BELIEVE...the Baptism in the Holy Spirit is a Special Experience Following Salvation that empowers believers for witnessing and effective service, just as it did in New Testament times. [1 of 4 cardinal doctrines of the AG]
8. WE BELIEVE... The Initial Physical Evidence of the Baptism in the Holy Spirit is ‘Speaking in Tongues,’ as experienced on the Day of Pentecost and referenced throughout Acts and the Epistles.
9. WE BELIEVE...Sanctification Initially Occurs at Salvation and is not only a declaration that a believer is holy, but also a progressive lifelong process of separating from evil as believers continually draw closer to God and become more Christlike.
10. WE BELIEVE...The Church has a Mission to seek and save all who are lost in sin. We believe 'the Church' is the Body of Christ and consists of the people who, throughout time, have accepted God's offer of redemption (regardless of religious denomination) through the sacrificial death of His son Jesus Christ.
11. WE BELIEVE...A Divinely Called and Scripturally Ordained Leadership Ministry Serves the Church. The Bible teaches that each of us under leadership must commit ourselves to reach others for Christ, to worship Him with other believers, and to build up or edify the body of believers–the Church.
12. WE BELIEVE...Divine Healing of the Sick is a Privilege for Christians Today and is provided for in Christ's atonement (His sacrificial death on the cross for our sins). [1 of 4 cardinal doctrines of the AG]
13. WE BELIEVE...in The Blessed Hope—When Jesus Raptures His Church Prior to His Return to Earth (the second coming). At this future moment in time all believers who have died will rise from their graves and will meet the Lord in the air, and Christians who are alive will be caught up with them, to be with the Lord forever. [1 of 4 cardinal doctrines of the AG]
14. WE BELIEVE...in The Millennial Reign of Christ when Jesus returns with His saints at His second coming and begins His benevolent rule over earth for 1,000 years. This millennial reign will bring the salvation of national Israel and the establishment of universal peace.
15. WE BELIEVE...A Final Judgment Will Take Place for those who have rejected Christ. They will be judged for their sin and consigned to eternal punishment in a punishing lake of fire.
16. WE BELIEVE...and look forward to the perfect New Heavens and a New Earth that Christ is preparing for all people, of all time, who have accepted Him. We will live and dwell with Him there forever following His millennial reign on Earth. 'And so shall we forever be with the Lord!'; July 1, 2009 at 10:35 PM
Confused said...: Thanks 16 tenants of faith.

Wow! how can the BOD accused Dr. Lum of that???; July 1, 2009 at 11:04 PM
Don't Understand?? said...: dear all

Can somebody tell me which tenet of faith did Dr Lum depart from????
When asked whether Dr Lum has departed from the tenet of faith, our deacon Philip Tan answered "Yes" to this question.

I do not understand. How about you????; July 1, 2009 at 11:13 PM
No Fear of God said...: WE wonder whether PT knows what he meant when he answered yes to Bro Teng's question "Whether Dr Lum has departed from the tenants of faith?"

How can PT be so definitive in his answer? What has happened to his mental and spiritual faculties? Why is he so adamant to protect PG, BOD and the sham Inquiry Chairman and members?

Of course we can see the Inquiry Chairman and members were obviously bias and they are not fit to conduct the Inquiry. it is a sham and lie to say that they are independent members to conduct the Inquiry. From the EGM we heard one of the members speaking up... she did not even know what are the proper rules which should apply to such a hearing!

It is outrageous and a disgrace that PG and BOD should bow so low to save their own skins by putting the entire blame on Dr Lum! What happened to PT he is speaking out and standing up to tell all these lies with a straight face at the AGM?

There is definitely no fear of GOD in PG, PG2, APs and BOD anymore. Now RC has stepped into the same boat too!!

How long will this saga drag on? We hope the authorities will step in soon to arrest this downhill slide to the ravine of no return.; July 2, 2009 at 8:29 AM
DayLight Robbery said...: Do you know that in CC the SP and family can get away with daylight robbery?

Furthermore the BOD will facilitate in the numerous offences (yearly transfers which they deemed as rightful allowances and with intention to building up a fat gratuity for PG and PG2) and give their endorsements like dimwits.

At the same time, the APs will allow the offences to take place right under their noses and declare there is no misappropriation of funds!

Now when all have been exposed PG,PG2, APs and BOD still try to cling onto dear life by all the sly and devious means exhibited during the AGM.

Do they think they can hide their sins from GOD? Do they not know that their sins will come after them? Will any amount of manipulation and lying before the members make things right in the sight of GOD?

Meantime what is AOG Council doing? Maintaining silence to pretend problems are not there? Why are the big heads still hiding behind all their positions?
Better face the real issues fast as AOG credibility and integrity is also gone with the wind along with CC leadership!; July 2, 2009 at 11:47 AM
The blind will see said...: A BELATED BUT IMPORTANT RESPONSE TO:

Pastoral Gift-exchange said.. JUNE 29, 2009 6:58 PM

The following are extracts from you what you wrote:

“Talking of gifts to Pastors. Really the congregation spoilt them. But, Pastors do give to one another..of course not from their pockets but from the nice congregation.

Prince got a Volvo T90. Petrina got a Civic 1.8. They claimed it's a gift from Singapore. Then, why didn't they suggest to the giver to give to CCC”???

What is happening is based on the long known principle of “I scratch your back, you scratch mine”.
We both feel nice and no body will mind. This is because few can see what is REALLY happening behind the scene.

THE PROCESS:

1)If PASTOR JOHN spends RM 500,000 on a prestigious car, people will raise their eyebrows and question, “How did he get all that dough? He must be filthy rich!

2)But if Ps JOHN gives to Ps JAMES a gift of RM500,000 to buy a car of Ps JAMES’ liking & Ps JAMES, in return, gives the same amount to Ps JOHN for the same purpose, there no loss on either side. Right?

3)Now both Ps JOHN and Ps JAMES can go out and buy their dream car costing RM500,000.

4)The VERY VERY BIG difference now is than both Ps John & Ps James can say TRUTHFULLY the car bought is a gift from the other. The gift is very expensive but it is a gift. I couldn’t have afford it but God is blessing me because I am faithful. It can happen to all of you too if you have the faith that I have. Anyone dare to challenge God’s intention???

5)So everybody feels relieved and happy.

IS IT RIGHT OR WRONG?

1)From the legal and accounting standpoint there does not seem to be anything wrong (I am not an expert).

2)From the biblical point of view I consider it terribly wrong because there a high element of deception which really is the spirit of Jezebel.

3)But Calvarites have been discussing the issue. My own children have discussed this matter with me over the dinning table and we just shake our heads and we laugh and laugh and, simultaneously, as the decibel of the laughter goes up, the disdain for these “people of God” also goes up!

Num 32:23 .... and be sure your sin will find you out.

Deception is not a gift of the Holy Spirit. It is a very popular gift of the Devil.; July 2, 2009 at 1:18 PM
Anonymous said...: Will AOG Council Do Something?

Whether the AOG Council can do anything, let's not put our high hopes on them too much. A few years ago, there was an incident of unethical and immoral conduct that involved a very Senior Minister of an AOG Church in the Klang Valley.
Sadly, the AOG Council took NO ACTION as it will NOT intervene in local church matters where the Church is sovereign with a properly constituted Church Board. If you wish to read on this, please go to this blog by Dr Henry Ng.

http://keuyteow.blogspot.com/2008_05_01_archive.html; July 2, 2009 at 6:52 PM
the dynasty said...: Hi Rich Man @ 9.02pm July 1,

No way,lah! that you can become a "G" unless your father is a "G". Even half a G is no big deal except the money as the extended ministry Creative Arts Centre is led by a Ministry Head, Chris Lee and not Chris G. Now it makes me wonder what is the purpose of having this extended ministry while the Church has a Music & Creative Arts Ministry. The roles in these two ministries will obviously overlap. Why isn't the head of the Church's Music & Creative Arts be responsible for the training and development in the Church. Guess this extended ministry is created so that Chris will also have a double income (as an AP and extended ministry head), just like Pam and Jim with double income (though they have no pastoral income, they have two incomes in the extended ministries). So....Rich Man, real tempting, isn't it? So I will not fault you for thinking along that line hahaha. If you have powerful support backing you all the way in CC, you need not worry for the rest of your life regarding your finances.

BTW, I have noticed that Chris does not song-lead very often nowadays. I see Ps Steven doing it most of the time and yet Chris is in Church in DH. This started about Easter time. Can someone out there enlighten me before all sorts of speculations arise. Is there a change in roles?; July 2, 2009 at 11:02 PM
Nevey give up said...: By the rate it's go, as we can see, if PG & PG2 do not step down for retirement gracefully.... The protest on this blog will continue from inside and outside of Calvary Church!; July 2, 2009 at 11:50 PM
God's Mercies said...: It appears that PG and PG2 are really thick-skinned and superb actor and actress to hang onto their positions even when all the scandals have been swirling and exposed for the past one and half years.

The costs to submit to the truth is just too high so the drama must carry on... meantime APs and BOD continue to prop PG and PG2 up as they are totally blinded. At the same time pro PG group also follow suit blindly.

We shall continue to pray that God's sovereign will be realised soon in CC! Surely God is faithful and just and His mercies are new every morning.; July 3, 2009 at 8:31 AM
Revamp Badly Needed Before Faith Promise said...: Calvarites,

Tell others to prayerfully consider witholding Faith Promise pledge until Truth Committee and Constitutional Review Committee are established.

Until we have a new church constitution, new missions manual, new senior pastor's handbook and new staff handbook.

Or until we have a new SP, totally new BOD and new elders (not the APs as elder)

Or until we have proper Oversight Board for each and every Extended Ministries.

Only with the above, then, there is some truth, some transparencis and some Godly-governance; July 3, 2009 at 8:59 AM
Rich Man said...: REPLYING TO: the dynasty said... JULY 2, 2009 11:02 PM

Sadlah, cannot get the G-name. BTW the pseudonym RICH MAN relates to being rich in the Lord.

You asked: “what is the purpose of having this extended ministry ( ministry Creative Arts Centre) while the Church has a Music & Creative Arts Ministry. The roles in these two ministries will obviously overlap”. (Note both run by Ps Chris Lee).

Your reasoning is very true. It provides an avenue for someone to have double income. What I can also think of is how easier it is to run two overlapping ministries compared to running two totally separate ones. Dynasty, would you call that a 2 for 1 – double pay and half the effort??; July 3, 2009 at 11:03 AM
Q on Role of SP in Missions Manual said...: Hi!

Can someone highlight what's in the Missions Manual that gives SP so much power to transfer funds to his personal ministry (CIM) and children's extended ministries (CCM & CLM)?

Pastor Peter can help too. Aric Low can help too. Any BOD can help to clear the air?; July 3, 2009 at 11:35 AM
Should BOD be charged for Incompetence said...: I just can't understand how the BOD is so unwise to allow father,son and daughter to accumulate millions in their personal ministry.. PG in CIM (more than 1m), PG, Jr in CCM (more than 1m) and PamG in CLM (more than 0.6m)

Can BOD see there are far greater needs..like BCM, NECF, financially struggling small churches, our own financially struggling outreach churches, poor communities who desperately need food and gospel.

BOD ought to be charged for incompetence of their positions!; July 3, 2009 at 11:48 AM
Jesus means business said...: Hi CalvaryToday

Whoever you are, keep up the good work. Many Christians asked what's happening in CC. They were told to read the blog. This serves as great warning to all churches and all leaders.

Time has come for Christians ourselves to clean the bad practices of the church. Church leaders can fail Christ in the Great Commission if they persist to run church like their family businesses. Such organisations many a time pose as stumbling blocks to non-believers. Why? Even believers can't agree with their pastors on the way the churches are run.

Take this warning seriously. We are responsible for the souls of people. Church should be spiritual and not secular (or worldly). Pastors who are worldly are just not pastors. Stop calling them as one. Instead, call them hypocrites. Jesus will do just that - Woe unto you. You hypocrites. Jesus means business.; July 3, 2009 at 12:56 PM
BOD: What a Disgrace said...: BOD don't be so happy that you can abuse the members and associate members in AGMs and EGMs.

Just by using the Church Constitution as the legal weapon does not absolve you from possible charges against you individually.

Don't be hoodwinked by PG and "misled" by the opinions of the appointed lawyers and forensic auditors. The real facts were not disclosed to them so the opinions could have quite different had the true facts been disclosed.

When the truth comes out through proper channels BOD could be wallowing in the mud! There is a saying that "crying will be too late"!

If BOD come to their senses they had better confess and seek forgiveness from members and make restitution. If they are honest and persons of character and integrity then they should step out and be truthful of what they have done or failed to do as deacons elected by the members of CC.

Just stop playing politics in church and be honest and truthful before GOD.

FEAR GOD AND NOT MERE MAN.
Why protect the man and lose your whole character and reputation? Is the price worth it? Or have you been sucked into a cult and you are part of the establishment too?; July 3, 2009 at 2:28 PM
Anonymous said...: BOD BOD BOD..... despite on how you change the BOD, they are still PG's handpicked.

See the picture, what you do outside the Wall of Jericho, you still cannot breakthrough.

Suggestion:-
Let's organize a prayer event where we all can come together and do exactly what God ask Joshua to do before the down of Jericho's wall? i.e. members to walk round own attending church location - DH, DP, Cheras, Ampang.....

I am sure God will grant us the break through!; July 3, 2009 at 4:00 PM
AOG Council - A Total Disappointment said...: Hi Worshippers of AOG churches

I read this website given by Anonymous said... July 2, 2009 6:52 PM on a complaint to AOG about a Senior Pastor of Grace Assembly:

http://keuyteow.blogspot.com/2008_05_01_archive.html

Also, there were a no. of complaints made against Senior Pastor of Calvary Church to AOG.

From the response from AOG, AOG Council leadership is total disappointment being the spiritual leaders for Christ.

Is it that all these leaders (who are Senior Pastors themselves and are Exco of AOG Council) having similar problems in their own churches? If not, why such cover-up? Members committed similar wrong in their respective churches would likely have been sacked or disciplined by these Pastors.; July 3, 2009 at 11:17 PM
Declining Numbers of Faith Promise Partners said...: Hi Calvarites

Are Calvary leaders are in a denial syndrome? Or are they oblivious of the problems in CC?

Missions Sunday is coming.

Because they lack TTG, the declining no. of faith promise partners over these 2 years are clear evidence of the worshippers' loss of trust in leadership handling missions funds.

According to Calvary Missions News,
faith promise partners are:

Jan - June 2008 2739
Jul - Dec 2008 2520
Jan - June 2009 2014

Something must wrong! Leadership, please take responsibility.; July 3, 2009 at 11:28 PM
Waiting For God's Action said...: Although we can see the obvious drop in number of Faith Promise partners, TTG's role has to continue. Why?

1. There are many new worshippers who come to CC and are completely unaware of all the wrongs and sins committed by PG, APs and BOD;

2. CC leadership want to continue pretending that everything is fine in CC.

3. Middle-ground are very forgiving and trusting on pastors and BOD.

4. Pro PG group continue to uphold CC leadership as they are still blinded or feel obligated to support leadership due to longstanding relationship.

5. Pastors and BOD and families just refuse to acknowledge that matters are terribly wrong.

Despite the above conditions God is faithful and gracious and we believe He will act in the right time.

What we need to do, we shall do BUT what we are unable to do, THE LORD WILL UNDERTAKE HIMSELF TO ACT AT THE RIGHT TIME!

OUR GOD REIGNS!; July 4, 2009 at 5:30 AM
Bamboo Conspiracy said...: LETTER VS SPIRIT
ROGUE CHRISTIAN LEADERS (PART 2)

Hi Blogger who visited
http://keuyteow.blogspot.com/2008_05_01_archive.html

Dr Henry Ng is a great friend and one who is also fighting for TRUTH like TTG. Imagine you searching the web and finding his article. Great job!

Here is my response to Calvary Church AGM held on 19JUN09.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_hzmEyqQNU

THE AOG MALAYSIA AND THE BOD ARE VICTIMS OF THE SKILLING TRAP

I have written a letter to the AOG MALAYSIA after hearing the audio messages in Calvary Today and awaiting their response. But their track record for replying to letters regarding church misconduct is VERY POOR!

NEVERTHELESS - I STAND BY WHAT I SAID BEFORE - THE LORD WILL REMOVE ROGUE CHRISTIAN LEADERS.

Vijay; July 4, 2009 at 7:20 AM
Indah Khabar Dari Rupa said...: Indah Khabar Dari Rupa!

One look at the Calvary Missions News, you are impressed..by the print quality, by the great news, by the photos..

If you look deeper and understand the money involved and results, you are appalled.

Same goes to CalvaryLand. One look at the building and facilities, you are impressed.

If you look deeper and understand the money involved and results, you are angry.

Impression can be deceiving.; July 4, 2009 at 4:17 PM
Birds of a feather flock together said...: I read this website given by Anonymous said... July 2, 2009 6:52 PM on a complaint to AOG about a Senior Pastor of Grace Assembly: http://keuyteow.blogspot.com/2008_05_01_archive.html

Now you see why the AOG is not taking any action on the issues in Calvary Church and the way Ronnie Chin behaved? Well, birds of a feather flock together!

AOG Council, don't think you could sweep all these despicable acts under the carpet. Let me remind you that your act would surely bring down the whole AG churches in Malaysia. AG pastors who are for Truth, Transparency and Good Governance, rise up and take action. You wouldn't want your church to be dragged down by these rogue leaders.; July 4, 2009 at 7:31 PM
Feet Washer said...: CALVARY WAS NOT ALWAYS LIKE THIS

It was quite some time ago
And it was so strong, so very strong
.....the anointing of the Holy Spirit
I would into the sanctuary
And sense His presence so very awesome,
so very, very awesome there
The worship of the people around the alter
Amazing, just amazing

The Holy Spirit’s flow crossing here and crossing there
Waves after waves here and there
People fell, people cried, people wept
The unison of that worship
No person can orchestrate

People then came in droves and came pairs
Assured of God’s presence in Calvary there

Can it happen again?
Can it happen again?
Of course it can !!

Our relationship to God if just as close
If our attitude just as humble
And our hearts just as hungry
As the time we had there.

An old christian sage told me once
When the anointing is gone
Don’t search everywhere
Go back there, go back there
When things were so anointed
Start again from there !!; July 4, 2009 at 8:39 PM
DISCOVERY said...: PG: PLAGIARIST AT WORK
An Old Guard Testified:
This faithful member, once a upon a time, many years ago, like many of us, I would think, thought well of PG’s preaching and took notes of it. One particular
Sunday this member missed out some points of the outline and wanted to get them. So, this member even called PG’s secretary and asked for them as the sermon was good.

Then, not long after, this member accidentally came across a Pamphlet, and lo & behold, ‘PG’s outlined content was verbatim (exactly the same) as appeared in the leaflet!!! ( So, he got found out, and he’d thought he could hide!)

Now, this same person think even believe his write-up ( *Living with Heavenly Vision) in the latest issue 118 of Calvary, carried cut& paste materials of others.
No wonder, it’s all so ‘impressive’! But, as for the title-- credit to him as he is very good at *‘lofy’ ones, just as it is for his sermon to create “Impact”

It’s anyone’s guess, if PG had ever waited for the Lord ( or fast & pray) for the sharing of God’s word, specifically for the CC congregation each time he stands behind the sacred Pulpit to preach.; July 4, 2009 at 11:14 PM
I REPORT said...: And the LIES CONTINUE …

Another Lie : CMN ( Calvary Missions News) JULY 09
On its back cover, it stated “Dr. Delmer
Guynes was the first Pastor of Calvary
Church in Jalan Sayor in 1961.

FACT: It was PASOR HUGE BAKER.
( please refer to the *40th Anniversary of CC
publication, available at Book Corner) * Of course
this was also a lie, as it should be 47th Anniversary!

…& another LIE : CALVARY PRESS
In the Extended Ministries Financial
Report 08, it was stated
under 5. Calvary Press “Purpose” :
The press undertakes to
print *ALL ..such as ... newsletters..
Diaries.. Books..for the church, other
churches and Christian organizations.

FACT: It has NO capability to undertake colour print
jobs. The church's diaries, CMN, Newsletters,
and even the Annual Reports were all given to
outside commercial Printers. Yet they have the
guts to claim credit “Printed by Calvary Press”
and never told the truth to the Members, but let
them assume it was the case!

And which other churches and Christian organizations are their Clients? And are its Income & Expenditure a true picture, then?

• As with all EXTENDED MINISTRIES, their “PURPOSE/ Mission Statement are all encompassing, worded to sound impressive & so wonderful, but not necessary carried out!(Well, they are not accountable, remember?); July 5, 2009 at 12:25 AM
PR PRO said...: PR BLITZ!( without any finesse)

The CMN & CALVARY NEWS are so full of themselves!

Notice, (well, it's plastered all over the pages, No one can possibly missed all those "PIN-UP" pix of the G's... Boldly circled, bolder & bigger than ever, and in the case of PG1 even repeated 15x over (pg4&5). Full marks to CCM for the Crude overkill.

If it was meant for the parents' keepsake( baby dedication) a nice 4R size to each of them would be common sense.( they will now pick-up this tip) But of course, the underlying motive was to give PG Exposure carrying tender loving babies. ( an over used ploy by all Politicians to show the 'soft & caring' side) PG has hoped & prayed the members are still gullible

How sad, CC's main Publication is in fact another TOOL use for PG's own agenda.; July 5, 2009 at 1:04 AM
The blind will see said...: IN RESPONSE TO:

AOG Council - A Total Disappointment said... July 3, 2009 11:17 PM
Bamboo Conspiracy said... Vijay July 4, 2009 7:20 AM
Birds of a feather flock together said... July 4, 2009 7:31 PM

I agree that AOG Council is slow to act not because they are slow but because they are reluctant to do so. The reasons for this reluctance, I think, is essentially four- folds:

1) PG have been Superintendent for 27 years. Quite a number of the current councillors, as young pastors before, must have looked up to him in awe. They treat him as their mentor. This subjects them to a psychological double-bind situation. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t.

2) Roughly half the councillors are for and half are against PG. If you have participated in a tug-of-war before you will know that if the sides are roughly equal in strength there can be little headway either way.

3) The issues of Calvary Church are likely to be similar all other AOG Churches as the constitution would be similar and the senior pastors have almost full autonomy. To decide that PG is wrong will be a judgement that will back-fire onto themselves. It will imply they are also wrong and will have to revamp their own system of running their churches. They may not be happy with this as they are very comfortable with the existing sytem where they have full control.

4) The councillors themselves may be concerned that the eyes of their own congregation will opened concerning TTG’s problems and they too may rise up and make a similar stand.

However, I would like to add that any system will work if the senior pastor is Godly and humble but no system will ever work if the senior pastor is ungodly, proud and arrogant. This explains why, under the present AOG structure,imperfect as they are, some churches have no problems whereas others do.; July 5, 2009 at 12:05 PM
Not Fool by Faith Promise said...: Today was Faith Promise day at CC. I was surprised that there was no communion today eventhough it is the first sunday of the month. Maybe SP thinks that collecting money is more important than communion.

SP (as usual)requested those present to "exercise mission sunday and God will meet their needs". In other words, if you want to see miracles in your life give towards missions. I am rather shock at this kind of preaching because if we are told to give and expect a return of favour from God than we are not sincerely giving out from our heart to help the needy. SP als commented that we are "needy people".

For the benefit of those who did not attend the service at CC here are some happenings and comments :-

1) The mission budget for July to December 2009 is RM 218,000 per month breakdown into :-

Personnel 36%
Extended ministeries 25%
Projects 15%
Missions & Evangelism 10%
Equipment 8%
Organisation/Bible schools 5%
Church planting 1%

Comments :- From the above it can be seen that 61% of the mission budget ( Personnel 36% and Extended ministry 25%)will be spend on paying the salaries of personnel (including some highly paid pastors)as reflected in the Missions Fund accounts of RM 611,051 and the salaries of the Extended Ministries amounted to RM 766,897 in year 2008.

So all calvarites please take note that your hard earned money that was given under the disguise of Faith Promise actually goes towards paying the salaries of a few highly paid personnel NOT for mission works. So don't be fool.

Missions & Evangelism only 10% of total Faith Promise giving and church planting only 1%. The pamplets given today gave one an impression that their Faith Promise giving goes towards the needy people in Somalia and China.

Shouldn't the money be use for the furtherance of God's kingdom through church planting, missions and evangelism so that more souls can be saved? CC have got their priority wrong.

Calvarites, take note also that total Fixed Deposits kept by the Extended Ministries totalled RM 1,984,501 in year 2008 and the Fixed Deposits as reflected in Calvary Church main accounts is RM 19,596,603 thus giving a cumulative total of RM 21,581,104. This does not take into account money hidden under some other accounts, e.g RM 1.04 million reverted by CIM hidden under "designated funds for overseas missions" in the Mission accounts (see Pg 13 note 5 of the Mission accounts for year 2008).

Don't forget your Faith Promise giving will also go towards building a church in India to reach out to the rich. Isn't there more poor people in India who go hungry everyday than rich people? Isn't it easier to reach out to the poor than the rich? If CC is to spend RM 100 million on a building imagine how many poor people they can feed with that money.

In Malaysia there's a church who started the Soup Kitchen to give free food to the poor in Jinjang and slowly these people came to church and many souls were saved. Isn't this a more worthwhile cause than reaching out to the rich who are generally proud and arrogant and have a harden heart?

SP also informed that any amounts beyong the Missions Budget will go towards CCC. Now that CCC is facing financial problems who is to know how the Faith Promise givings is allocated?

I leave it to the calvarites to decide whether to give or not. As for me, I'm not fool by Faith Promise calls from CC from day one.; July 5, 2009 at 9:38 PM
Apostle said...: IN RESPONSE TO: Jesus means business said... July 3, 2009 12:56 PM

I certainly agree with you that CT is doing a fantastic job. I consider CT as the most effective tool we have currently to deseminate truth to everyone. And I believe that finally it will the truth which put and end to the whole Calvary Charade.

It is also important to trace the multiple issues that have arisen to their common source and then remove that source. Pro 22:10 Drive out a mocker, and conflict will leave. Quarreling and abuse will stop.

May the culprit in CC be identified and removed quickly and swiftly.; July 5, 2009 at 10:45 PM
Rich Man said...: TO : Indah Khabar Dari Rupa said... July 4, 2009 4:17 PM.

I am impressed by you discerning observation. Impressed because so many Calvarite can be so easily duped. To me it is a shame for a Christians to be duped. They are supposed to have the wisdom of God.

Calvary Church is the epitome of deception and extravagance. What a disgrace !; July 6, 2009 at 6:12 AM
3 BLIND MICE said...: Dear Declining Numbers of Faith Promise Partners

Thank you for the figures:

“According to Calvary Missions News, faith promise partners are:
Jan - June 2008 2739
Jul - Dec 2008 2520
Jan - June 2009 2014”

This is a 27% decrease! And it could be even worse. The figures represent only the number of people participating.

If the Missions department were more upfront they would have shown the changes in dollars and cents.

Still not open are they?? They just never learn.; July 6, 2009 at 11:11 AM
Crossing the Rubicon said...: Crossing the Rubicon

I was at the DH second service and you could feel that Pastor Guynes was trying hard ..very hard to rally the people to give and pray for the Horn of Africa Project. I see no connection on his message and faith promise sunday. I have given substantial amount (6 figures) to CCC and the work of CC in the past. For this time round, I have wise up and felt it is just not right that the faith promise budget of RM 218K, hardly goes to the work of real missions and evangelism. FYI, my wife and I have stop giving a single cent to CC until SP resigns and repent of his deceitful ways. I do not wish to be a sucker anymore while my SP is enriching himself and chanelling funds to Extended MInistries for the benefit of his wife, children and son-in-law. The G Dynasty...period.; July 6, 2009 at 1:26 PM
The blind will see said...: IN RESPONSE TO: Not Fool by Faith Promise said... JULY 5, 2009 9:38 PM
Thanks for the Infor. Very interesting
1)The mission budget for July to December 2009 is RM 218,000 per month breakdown into :-

Personnel 36%
Extended ministeries 25%
Projects 15%
Missions & Evangelism 10%
Equipment 8%
Organisation/Bible schools 5%
Church planting 1%

Was it a general report using the LCD? This is just a bare skeleton with no useful details for the members to determine if the Missions Department is on the right direction. Is the aim of the report to show as little as possible?

The 1% for church planting is just an absolute disgrace! The Missions Director owes the church members an explanation.

We should support the Bible school more. The power of the AOG will be in the number of godly ministers it produces.; July 6, 2009 at 7:21 PM
Unknown said...: IN RESPONSE TO: Crossing the Rubicon said...

I had no idea before what rubicon meant. You are crossing it? By what you are doing I think you have already crossed it. I salute you! And I am encouraged.

I am referring, of course, to your statement:

“FYI, my wife and I have stop giving a single cent to CC until SP resigns and repent of his deceitful ways”.

May others also follow you and your wife's example.; July 6, 2009 at 8:17 PM
Not Fool by Faith Promise said...: To : Crossing the Rubicon 6 July 2009 1.26am

Praise God that you saw the truth (the deceitful ways of SP)and have stop giving to CC. I have not only stop giving thithes but also offerings to CC. My thithes are now given to another church whom I trust are good steward of my money.In other words I have Turn Off The Tap (TOTT) on CC.

I hope more Calvarites' eyes will be open to see the truth (it is already obvious as reported in CC annual report for year 2008 but supporters of SP just refused to accept the truth ).; July 6, 2009 at 8:53 PM
I have decided said...: I have decided to withhold all offerings since Sept 2008 EGM. That was when I saw and heard for myself. Please believe me, I was not the only careless one that had put my trust on this group on men and women who have "lord over" me thus far. I have even avail myself to listen to their selected group explanations just to hear their side of story as oppose to reading from this site.Alas, all hollow, all hollow!

Pas. SK said don't mistaken the small 1% allocated for church planting. CC has sufficient fund allocated for church planting, no need to allocate more, so that explains the small amount in allocation. What is needed are the willing personnel to do church planting. Well, if one take a look at the way CC's spending, it is not difficult to see the emphasis of the leadership is. MORE MATERIAL LESS SPIRITUAL. Supposing how pleasing it would be to the Lord for the 36% allocated for personnel in FP's budget will be used for training and supporting church planters. Ask Gospel for Asia, how much can we do for this generation with the amount of money planned for CCC?; July 6, 2009 at 9:55 PM
Eyes Wide Open said...: Hi Calvarites

Many worshippers come and worship and then go home. They don't mix or stay for fellowship.

It's time for all who stand for TTG to share with them. Please don't let the blind remains blind. Help them to see.

Firstly, it's good for their spiritual life. Secondly, they will be better steward for God. They have to be guided to sow into ministries which produce life and practise TTG.

Now that more eyes are opened, those delivered must come forward to help the others too.

Pastors can't go too far to deceive when most congregation eyes are wide open.; July 6, 2009 at 11:00 PM
Not Fool by Faith Promise said...: In response to : The blind will see 6 July, 2009 7.21pm

As to your question " Was it a general report using the LCD"? The answer is - the breakdown was given on the Faith Promise card.; July 6, 2009 at 11:05 PM
GREY MATTER said...: ASK THIS KEY QUESTION:

If 'Faith Promise' is meant for Missions, WHY must
any excess of the pledges be "Transfered" out for CCC?

1. CCC already has all the "LEAP here Leap there"
fund pledge cards. So, whoever really wants to
support CCC, the person would give directly
there, isn't it?
2. Any person who (still ) believe and take part in
the "faith promise", wouldn't the person be
concerned with Missions work and NOT CCC?

3. And if the pledge amount exceeds the *"BUDGET" set by Missions Director, WHY can't it be used for MORE Missions work? Why conveniently give to CCC? After all it is MEANT for MISSIONS!

*( it was pointed out by discerning members that in fact the Budget can be manipulated ( based on past record of amount pledged, they would then work the Missions "needs" around it so that there will always be 'excess' for CCC.

Again, look at how sly PG get monies from every occasion--with carefully designed pledge--from Faith Promise to Leap in Faith to Miracle Card...
This is to ensure the main Church funds are sufficient to cover his and family Big Salaries & expenses!

p/s There is no let up... PG is still jet setting on Business Class & Luxury Class all the way. ( latest sighting in Middle East); July 7, 2009 at 12:20 AM
100% said...: The blind will see said...July 2, 2009 1:18 PM

A VERY ACCURATE ANALYSIS!
Yes, those ‘gift-exchanges’ are so well planned, that to many they believe it’s “Above-board”(or “Nothing Wrong” as PG , BOD & Assoc Pas always reply in defense!

By the way the Volvo is a SUV ( over Rm 400K), and guess what, although PG declared it was a PERSONAL Gift, YET the expensive car maintenance is paid by from the Church’s coffer. ( so, the church end up maintaining two cars! he is given an “official’ car—perhaps, he leads a double life—when he is off duty, he paints the town red in this sporty SUV ( turbo, no less).

On this point, one doesn't need to literally put a hand in the coffer, making FALSE claims, or CLAIMING FOR EXPENSES NOT SPELT OUT ANY WHERE, is as good as stealing.
(Just consider the recent House of Commons, how the MPs were found out making claims by THEIR OWN ‘JUSTIFICATION’ and because of the public outrage, those GUILTY resigned, including the House Speaker, who had known it all along but condoned the shameful acts) Alas, as for PG & BOD, they are still are getting away with all the despicable acts, and stay on proudly too!; July 7, 2009 at 12:36 AM
Sign of Overstaying said...: Hi Calvarites

Patrick Wong booted out is a sign that he stayed too long. He is in the CCC committee. His wife is an Assist. Ps.

He was voted out. Prince overstayed too long too! He is responsible for what it is in CCC. His wife is SAP, past 60 years yet on full and increasing salary. Is the staff handbook applied to her..to have retired at age 60.

Who is responsible to give her extension? Is her work justified extension and her high salary? Part of her salary come from those who had retired, having no income and still giving to the church. Where is plain decency in the church? Is this behaviour acceptable?

SP/BOD threw out the ratification resolution. SP/BOD, if they have sense of dignity, must the courage to subject themselves to a vote of confidence by both voting and associate members as a referendum.; July 7, 2009 at 11:56 AM
Birds of a feather flock together said...: In response to "The blind will see"

I agree totally with your statement,
"However, I would like to add that any system will work if the senior pastor is Godly and humble but no system will ever work if the senior pastor is ungodly, proud and arrogant. This explains why, under the present AOG structure,imperfect as they are, some churches have no problems whereas others do."

There will never be a 100% ideal system, but when we see the current church constitution being abused by PG and the BOD, "beh tahanlah." That was why they fought so hard not to have a vote for the resolution on Church Constitution Review Committee. Look, it has been almost a year now since they set up the so-called review committee, but what have they done??? Now you know why they're like a tortoise (sorry Patrick Wong) when it comes to this committee?

Calvarites (APs, BOD & PG supporters), can't you see what happened at the AGM? Why do you still allow yourselves to be blinded and conned by PG? He may have started well, but at this moment I dare say he's not finishing it well. May God have mercy. I remember someone once said, "if you were conned or cheated once or twice, that was maybe because you didn't have the wisdom and discernment of God at that moment. But to be conned or cheated over and over again, moreover by the same person, THAT'S STUPIDITY!!!"

To those whom have opened their eyes and became wiser, Praise the Lord! Let us now do our part in helping the "blind" in our church see. Call them; talk to them after church service; take them out for a teh-tarik. Let us do our part out of concern and love for our fellow brothers and sister in Christ. But if they so choose to allow themselves to be conned or cheated repeatedly, then shake off the dust from our shoes and leave them alone.; July 7, 2009 at 12:31 PM
Irritated said...: Mr Toyo, former Selangor Mentri Besar is now in trouble for abusing funds and building nice large homes for himself and his family.

Someone expose SP please! Report it to the press!

I think most of us can't take it anymore already. I've left a long time ago and i think most christians who desire to grow spiritually should leave too.

Let them enjoy their new CCC.; July 7, 2009 at 1:07 PM
The blind will see said...: To: GREY MATTER said... July 7, 2009 12:20 AM

You said:

“ASK THIS KEY QUESTION: If 'Faith Promise' is meant for Missions, WHY must any excess of the pledges be "Transfered" out for CCC?”

This subtly reveals that the focus of their attention has now shifted from Missions to CCC. And the members have been officially informed. There was no official objection UNLESS SOMEONE WRITES IN. Silence, as they say, is consent.

If I read the whole thing correctly there WILL now DEFINITELY be a surplus one way or and another. How? A project may by convenient drop for VERY GOOD REASONS. Financial provision originally planned for 10 people may be reduced for only 5 because no one applied for the positions. The range for manipulations will have no bounds.

THE SPIRIT FOR MISSION WILL SLOWLY DIE AS THE CCC GETS BUILT!; July 7, 2009 at 1:36 PM
Thanks CT said...: Thanks CT for all the hardwork especially in uploading the proceedings of the AGM. Now everyone could know the TRUTH what actually transpired during the AGM and how PG, Ronnie Chin, APs & the BOD behaved, which was unconstitutional and a disgrace. Keep up the great work CT for your presence is still very much needed to help bring to light all the despicable acts of PG, APs & BOD.; July 7, 2009 at 2:21 PM
Barnabas said...: IN RESPONSE TO : Irritated said...

You stated:
“I think most of us can't take it anymore already. ......Let them enjoy their new CCC:.

It is important to know what and why we are apposing PG – BOD. TTG stands for truth, transparency and good governance. If PG-BOD are not for the same thing then they are in the wrong. God is and will continue to deal with them. And God will be on our side. God will be for us as long as we continue to be obedient to him and not be tempted to be ungodly. Therefore we ourselves must continue to grow. And you know what? Spiritual growth is always much faster when we are under a challenge or persecution.

No we will not let them enjoy CCC. We think, as it stands, it is not of God’s will. On the contrary, we MUST NOT let them enjoy it!

In the meanwhile, as in every battle, no one is expect to fight continually. One also needs to learn how to rest in Jesus.
Mat 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.; July 7, 2009 at 3:50 PM
Unknown said...: AM WRITING TO : Irritated said... JULY 7, 2009 1:07 PM

You said:
“I think most of us can't take it anymore already. Let them enjoy their new CCC”.

For your own long-term good you really must learn how to chill out. Do you know that certain activities
dis-tress while others de-stress you??

The things that stress you are: arguing, quarrelling, must win all the time, trying to prove yourself to others, suffering injustice.

Things that de-stress you: singing your heart out, joking and laughing, listening to soothing music, seeing good comedies on the movies, reading the bible, worshiping God, praying your heart out, talking things out with someone.

The list is not all encompassing but it is a start. God bless.; July 7, 2009 at 7:40 PM
Prince's Masterminded Constitution said...: Hi Calvarites!

Please don't blame CC constitution for the state of CC today. We aim at the wrong target. The culprit is Prince. He masterminded this constitution which gives himself unfettered power. We can look to BOD and Ass. Pastors but to no avail. Even AOG is equally hopeless. A mere study of the constitution will tell you that BOD is in his left pocket and APs, right pocket.

The only faint hope is an enlightened BOD if they have the boldness to subject Prince to a ratification.

Anywhere, a leader who hide behind a constitution is one who is weak and lack security.

JFK once said to the effect that "playing with power is like riding a tiger which can cause you ended inside."

Prince has enjoyed his masterminded constitution for 20+ years. Today, it's all exposed. So, it's the beginning of an end. Many world dictators changed their country constitutions to stay in power but always ended tragically.

Either the long arm of the law will catch up with him or God will intervene. I believe wholeheartedly that God can never be mocked.; July 7, 2009 at 8:56 PM
tigers who are cowards and toothless said...: I visited the blog:

http://keuyteow.blogspot.com/2008_05_01_archive.html.

After reading, my perception is that the General Council of AOG, Malaysia is reluctant to initiate any investigation into any unspiritual conduct of their brethren even though an official complaint has been lodged. The Senior Pastor in question here is well-known in the Christian world. So it is mighty embarrassing if the complaint turns out to be true.

Oh yes, Rev Ronnie Chin was also at
a meeting at that time.

Back to CC, I am sure PG would be aware of this dark episode and yet there was no action whatsoever taken by AOG, Malaysia. Since a precedent had been set, PG is comfortable. Further, he was the General Superintendent for 26 years from 1974 to 2000. After vacating the position for 6 years, AOG conferred upon him the title "General Superintendent Emeritus" in Jun 2006.

So you tell me how will the AOG act if there is a complaint against him on his unspiritual conduct. Will they act against their brethren who is a Tan Sri and was in a way their mentor? Will it bring shame to the AOG? Will their investigation put this Senior Pastor among the ranks of Jim Bakker, Jimmy Swaggart and Ted Haggard?

Looks like the General Council of AOG with impressive, important and powerful titles, are in a way, cowards and toothless. Obviously, cronyism is practiced by AOG, Malaysia.

It's a case of "Mau buat atau ta'mau buat saja".; July 7, 2009 at 11:10 PM
Member said...: CT

We know that we are faced with 'the mountain of questionable SP, AP, BOD and AOG Council members like RC, KY' and even the police and IRB have come into the picture, should we not just release them to their fate of disobedience to the Lord?

Personally I feel that we have done all we can and it is time to
for us to unite together to pray
what we sing at the end of each service OUR FATHER IN HEAVEN......

May all of us now take the greater role of intercessors?

As truth, transparency and goood governance are linked to the glory of our Lord, surely He will take care of the situation, let us not fret, but continue to pray and trust Him - He will fix them Himself. He is our deliverer!!!!; July 8, 2009 at 9:49 AM
WATCHDOG said...: On the front Pg of The SUN 07/07/09 :
South Korea President gave 80% of his wealth amounting to over RM90 MILLION to set-up a Foundation for the Poor.

He also gives his entire salary for the same purpose.

He remembers his root in poverty and grateful to those who helped him.

Truly An extraordinary Statesman yet a humble Christian-- What a great witness for Christ Jesus.

Now, in CONTRAST --PG the CEO of CC:
He demands for the very best. Holds no bar to getting high salary, Bonuses & Perks. Even the audacity to collect Year end Christmas Love offering for himself!!!

He remembers his early short years as a pastor in Klang as having “served time” and therefore his privileges in CC are everything he deserves!
( that was why, he said anyone who would ‘deprive’ him, are “Johnny come Lately” because he has Arrived!”)

Instead of caring for the poor and the over-stretched congregation in giving $$$, he mingles and reach out to the RICH. This,PG ensures his & his wife & family lifestyle of luxurious indulgence are Secured and maintained. Using & spending Church funds freely without any consideration.

And the UNTHINKABLE Claim ( back dated to 13 years!) for RM 15,000 to pay for this Gym enrolment & trainer’s fees at the California Fitness

By his conduct and behaviour is PG a real PASTOR or an IXXXXXXX?; July 8, 2009 at 11:12 AM
Feet Washer said...: RESPONDING TO:

Member said... JULY 8, 2009 9:49 AM

“Personally I feel that we have done all we can and it is time to
for us to unite together to pray. May all of us now take the greater role of intercessors?”

You right in saying that we should pray. FYI praying has, is and will be the backbone of our endeavour. However, God always expects us to do something WITHIN OUR CAPABILITY before He, and He alone will bring about a victory or a miracle. I will give three examples:

1) When the Israelites had no faith to ENTER the promise land the first time, they ended up wandering 40 years in the wilderness which roughly only the size of Peninsula Malaysia. (Num 14:9). Did God ask them to do something impossible? No! He just asked them to walk and cross over the border and ENTER! But it takes faith. The next generation learnt their lesson. On the second time they entered and God gave them the land.

2) Peter would not have experienced the miracle of walking on the Sea of Galilee if, when Jesus said, “Come” and Peter didn’t go. All he had to do was simply something he normally could do. Walk. Only that he had to walk onto the sea. That took faith. Mat 14:28)

3) Jesus covered a blind man’s eyes with clay mixed with spittle and asked him to go to the pool of Siloam and wash the mud off. He did exactly what Jesus said – he walked to the pool and washed the mud off i.e. all the normal actions that he normally could perform and he got a miracle! Because he had the faith. Joh 9:6

So, inconclusion, we will pray and we must pray. But WE MUST CONTINUE TO DO what WE CAN DO to coerce PG to leave Calvary Church. Then we must have the FAITH to believe that God will do it. The timing and the method, however, is God’s perogative.; July 8, 2009 at 2:50 PM
Anonymous said...: I remember a few years ago , the CEO of National Kidney Foundation has a similar lifestyle like PG. Living an affluent life at the expenses of hard earned donations from ordinary folks. He challenged the NST (Spore reporter) and subsequently he was convicted and spending time in jail now. Don't you see the similarity now?? God is Great and He will act in his time.; July 8, 2009 at 4:13 PM

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Monday, June 22, 2009

Interesting Audio Clips from AGM

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