Calvary Today: Breaking News….Dr Lum call it quits

Saturday, November 22, 2008

Breaking News….Dr Lum call it quits

Dr Lum Siew Heng , a deacon highly respected by the TTG group, has taken that heroic step and submitted his resignation from the Board of Deacons just a few hours ago. We could almost hear the angels in heaven clapping and cheering.

Just when we thought that our prayers may not be answered, God has, once again, proven His faithfulness to us and shown us that He is still in control. We thank God for giving our dear deacon the courage and boldness to say, “Enough is enough”.

When Neil Armstrong stepped on the moon, he said those famous words “That’s one small step for man, one giant leap for mankind”.

When Dr Lum took that one small step and put in his resignation, it was a giant leap for Truth, Transparency and Governance. This one small step speaks volume and gives great encouragement to us and hopefully, all of you who have been one with us in our struggle to re-establish truth, transparency, proper governance, good stewardship, accountability and integrity in our beloved church.

Let us continue to pray that the rest of the deacons will emulate Dr Lum and do what is right.

Dr Lum, CalvaryToday salutes you!

381 comments:

«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 381 of 381 Newer› Newest»

Anonymous said...: Referring to my comments at 6:41pm, I better explain the phrase "....we know how to twist and turn...." before I get reprimanded for my choice of words.

What I meant is that one can select different words to put forward a thought, an opinion or a suggestion though in the end it means the same thing. eg: I can tell my subordinate to (a)"Do it as I say" or (b)"why not we try it my way". See the difference: (a) is an order, (b) is subtle and he still feels that some respect is also given to him. So, no, I do not mean to cheat, exploit or give half-truth or in extremes lie.; November 26, 2008 at 9:16 PM
Anonymous said...: May I suggest that Dr. Lum & his wife attend all the three meetings that have been scheduled for the leaders? This way, Dr. Lum would be able to have a first-hand observation of the meetings as well as to quell any untruths that the BOD & SP are trying to impart to mind-control the leaders.

Aiyoh-yoh, I left the blog for just three days and I now have such a lot of 'catching-up' to do!; November 26, 2008 at 9:46 PM
Anonymous said...: Dear Brothers and Sisters,

Let us not speculate what will happen on this Saturday's leaders meetings. Let us instead pray for the fear of God to be heavy upon the hearts and minds of each and everyone there.

Be steadfast on our believe that the TRUTH shall prevail. Let the Love of Jesus Christ overwhelms us.

The REVIVAL is taking place. It is not according to our terms, it is by HIS terms.; November 26, 2008 at 10:01 PM
Anonymous said...: Excuse me, Mission OTM....but may i inquire what OTM means?

BTW, you sound very much like the BOD with their "let God be God" mentality! Hope I'm not offending you....

It's just that you are assuming that we are not praying already!!! Of course, we believe that the Revival will be on His terms, we've never said that it will be on our terms, wot?...You should ask, What else can we do apart from praying? We should do what is humanly possible for us to do, but the rest we will leave to God! It is not really speculating but more of planning what is the best thing to do next...every good general does this in time of war! And if you still don't think we are 'in a state of war,' please read Sun Tzu's "Art Of War" which every good CEO has done!

So please try not to push that "Let God Be God" thingy on us...lah!; November 26, 2008 at 10:45 PM
Anonymous said...: hm....thanks for all those comments (regret not really answers to my questions given earlier)

a) who are supposed to attend?
b) purpose of the meeting?
c) any agenda given?
d) will it be similar like our last egm ie. explanation by the appointed chairman (not known to anyone except the BOD) and definitely been briefed as to what to say?

I believe we are all guessing and speculating because the ones who called for the meeting NEVER tell in advance or issue agenda.

In simple words if leaders do not know what to expect, they will not be prepared to ask questions!!! So leaders, if you are reading this blog, PRAY very hard that the Lord will help you to discern the truth and give you courage to stand up for TTG.

It is up to you to help pursue TTG
since the core group of teh tarik members are not eligible to attend the Sat meetings. One big comfort is that THE LORD TOO WILL BE THERE as it is HIS CHURCH!!

abc; November 26, 2008 at 11:40 PM
Anonymous said...: By kicking out the TTG and its supporters out of CC will only push them to press the BUTTON without any hesitation!; November 26, 2008 at 11:53 PM
Anonymous said...: anonymous 4.43pm ask question on Sp car. SP drives Volvo XC90 Suv. Cost about rm400k. When he got it, he told deacons someone give him as gift.

Heard one of TTG member, Bro KC did search at JPJ n discover the car bought under hire purchase with one bank. After he show deacons the search rpt, then heard SP suddenly change story little bit,saying someone in singapore paying his instalments, so it is a gift.

How to believe SP? Got such person-ah got no money to buy the car but want to give SP such expensive car on instalment? Sp think we fools to believe.

Also SAP's car Honda civic is also a gift from another singaporean. Dunno what to think some more.; November 27, 2008 at 12:06 AM
Anonymous said...: Dont think too much otherwise we will become cucoo.

Better spend time praying and thinking how to stop all these nonsense.; November 27, 2008 at 12:11 AM
Anonymous said...: Dear Art of War,

OTM stands for Of the Missions or On The Move that depends on when was that occurred to me.

I do not know how exactly the "Let God be God" sound when uttered by the BOD but can imagine the hurts it has caused to many by reading from the postings. Be assured, that never was my intention. The call is for all. All the more for me, one who is easily affected by the emotion and quick to react. What I am saying is that I need to pray more and talk less. More so it is about an event yet to occur, and one that is so SECRETIVE. For that, I rather pray for the wisdom of God to be bestowed upon all the leaders that they are not sway from TRUTH. That they will not fear man but to act BOLDLY according to their convictions in Christ.

I do not assume others do not pray but certainly there are amongst us needing to pray more, just like me. Let us not be irritated with "Let God be God!". Aren't God is very much more than what humans by nature cannot be?

For that Good Night and God Bless!; November 27, 2008 at 12:52 AM
Anonymous said...: hi folks,
i did keep away for a while to just stand back to see a bigger picture.they are many well wishes or with good intention making comments here. but i see mostly they parting words will be please WE SHOULD NOT DO THIS OR THAT YOU KNOW THE WHOLE CHRISTIAN WORlD WILL BE AFFECTED.
so far NONE has offer any solution. expecially those who have an office of authority. ie AG or NECF.
please do not tell us that the blog is a wrong platform to have believe it or not much prayer has being soak in before using this avenue to seek TTG.

if you do not have a better solution i hope you will pray along and hope this saga will end soon .i.e truth ,transparency n governaces being restore.
We attend Calvary for many years we want it to be beyond reproach.We want this church to represent christ.Anyone out there have a solution so the church will not affect the community of christian testimony.
IF OUR PROBLEM IS ALSO YOUR PROBLEM PLEASE STEP FORWARD TO HELP IF YOU DONT THINK YOU CAN HELP THEN JUST PRAY .DON'T ADVICE US AGAINST USING THIS BLOG AS A PLATFORM BECAUSE AT HAND THEY IS NO OTHER AVENUE .

ANOTHER HURT CHRISTIAN.; November 27, 2008 at 1:05 AM
Anonymous said...: Yeah. Joe Black, agree with you, many of us already so burnt out, painful, hurting, grieving, discouraged, distrubed, ashamed, 'cannot lift up our head' rejected, unwanted, cold-turkey and etc.
These people who seemingly think that they gave the best and godly advice by throwing in words to simply ask us to stop blogging.

I felt that they are no different from "Lion King".

We shall all blog, until God said stop, right? We all had been praying too, just in case another one come in and advice to to pray. If we dont pray, long ago, all of us already left the church or simply burnt out.; November 27, 2008 at 9:02 AM
Anonymous said...: Dear Mission OTM,

Thank you for your patient explanantion. Yes, I do believe in prayer, especially warfare prayer because PG's mind-control over the BOD & other leaders of the church is actually spiritual in nature.

1.The way he controls the whole deacon-nomination process shows he is practising mind-control, so as to eliminate those who oppose him and to slot in those who are his 'yes-men.'
2. The way he orchestrates every BOD meeting by first talking to each deacon in private, is another indication that he mind-controls the deacons to agree to his every scheme & not to collaborate with one another against him. Any one who dares to go against his plans will be deemed as UNSUBMISSIVE TO HIS AUTHORITY, a great sin in the eyes of Pastors!
3. To seperate the Saturday meeting into 3 groups of leaders is another way of PG to control the minds of the leaders.

Yes, indeed, we are in a state of war! Let us pray hard to PULL DOWN the strongholds in CC as well as in the minds of PG, APs, BOD and the church leaders! We have to pray against the STRONGMAN and bind him first before we can plunder his goods, Jesus tells us!

Show no mercy for we wil receive none (The Return Of The King)!; November 27, 2008 at 10:45 AM
Anonymous said...: To: all

I bumped into a cell group leader and he appeared blurred with regards to this Saturday meeting. I think some of the leaders were not called for the meeting.

Please check with your friends who are leaders, which session are they called to attend. You will be surprised some of them were not called.--Strange!; November 27, 2008 at 12:15 PM
Anonymous said...: We must try to 'educate' as many lay leaders (who will be attending the meeting) as we can before the meeting this saturday.

We need them to be ready for whatever comes out, good or bad. And then to ask questions.

Come on, everyone!! Start talking to your lay leader friends!; November 27, 2008 at 12:17 PM
Anonymous said...: Hello AOG

God is shaking the AG churches it seemed..I just heard from a friend, another prominent AG church also got group. We TTG. They Canai Group. Nasi Lemak Group.

Wow..clean up calvary first..before long you will have sleepless nite.; November 27, 2008 at 12:54 PM
Anonymous said...: YES, to cleasing of Calvary.

Isaiah 61:11
For as the earth bringeth forth her bud, and as the garden causeth the things that are sown in it to spring forth;
so the Lord GOD will cause righteousness and praise to spring forth before all the nations.

AMEN Lord, let RIGHTEOUSNESS AND PRAISE spring forth before all the churches; November 27, 2008 at 4:29 PM
Anonymous said...: Art of War: "Return of the King" is hardly the right thing to quote here. I politely disagree with your 'show no mercy' cry. Mercy is the hallmark of Christianity, and to abandon it is to be everything in this world but a Christian.

That said, I hope no one mistakes my comment for 'sticking up for the SP' again. I tire of dealing with people who will twist my words.; November 27, 2008 at 6:08 PM
Anonymous said...: GMF Index Finger

I agree with you whole-heartedly that mercy is the hallmark of a Christian (not Christianity).

Will you please cite examples, occassions where PG showed mercy to those who disagree with him?

It will be interesting to hear from you - but before u reply kindly refer to earlier blogs from ex-staff, axed leaders etc.

There's always 2 sides of the coin - when you reply you have to be fair to bloggers in support of TTG.

jl; November 27, 2008 at 6:43 PM
Anonymous said...: Hello Index finger

"Pooi Fook"-"pooi fook", you good trailer! As i commented earlier, do lay hand and pray for Sp or counsel him or help ttg! Thank you in advance.; November 27, 2008 at 6:44 PM
Anonymous said...: Heartiest Congratulations to Dr Lum on achieving your Master of Divinity degree. So, calvary church now added one more bible scholar.; November 27, 2008 at 7:49 PM
Anonymous said...: index finger,
Your comment shows how little you know about spiritual warfare...when we war in the spritual realm against principaliteies & powers of darkness, we are to show no mercy because we will receive none from our enemies!

PG's exercising of mind-control over the church is evil inorigin so when we pull down strongholds, we are to brace ourselves like David's mighty men, stand your ground & show no mercy!; November 27, 2008 at 8:00 PM
Anonymous said...: Index Finger,

Sorry for typo errors: should be 'spiritual' & 'principalities'

To add to what I've said, yes, please share with us the occassions when PG have been merciful to his sheep? What sort of shepherd has he been for the past 10 years or so? Was he the good shepherd who would lay down his life for the sheep or is he the hireling-shepherd who thinks that the sheep should die for him instead? Huh?; November 27, 2008 at 8:09 PM
Anonymous said...: Dear friends,

At the risk of being misunderstood again, I will venture forth :)
I agree wholeheartedly with GMF's words (I shall say absolutely nothing about his intentions, inner motives, etc as I don't know who he/she is, neither see into his/her heart).
As Christians, we cannot return evil for evil. Jesus says, Bless those who curse you.
Friends, if you judge SP to be "merciless," you are no better if you show no mercy in return.
Dear "Art of War", spiritual warfare cannot be conducted according to carnal or worldly methods.
Friends, don't attack your enemy with the same methods he uses, lest you be like him.

Blessings and Peace to all.; November 27, 2008 at 9:00 PM
Anonymous said...: To all readers...

May I suggest that we ignore whatever GMF Index Finger writes? If you read one of his comments under an earlier article, he has written this:

"I say that I've been far more patient than is expected of anybody, and if the patience runs out and something nasty happens, DON'T BLAME ME."

My question is, is that a threat, Index Finger? What nasty thing is gonna happen if your patience runs out? Are you gonna start behaving like some tyrant or gangster?

All I can say is, stop 'advising' us on what to do when you yrself are a bad example..what with all the threats and self righteous banters you have been giving.; November 27, 2008 at 9:17 PM
Anonymous said...: P.S.

By showing mercy, I do not mean that we do not seek justice. That we must!

"He has showed you, O man, what is good. And what does the LORD require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God." Micah 6:8; November 27, 2008 at 9:18 PM
Anonymous said...: ...besides, SP isn't your enemy, the devil is. So....know who your enemy is and you'll have victory; November 27, 2008 at 9:20 PM
Anonymous said...: the devil is our enemy but PG is being used by the devil to destroy CC; November 27, 2008 at 9:23 PM
Anonymous said...: Samy is still in MIC talking a lot of BS. PG is still in calvary doing the same. God bless them both.; November 27, 2008 at 9:42 PM
Anonymous said...: Please delete the anonymous comment. as agreed, no anonymous, no 3rd party. the comment not relevant.; November 27, 2008 at 9:52 PM
Anonymous said...: Anon 2:25,
There you go again with your 'too good to be true" comments! Actually, you sound like you are in cahoots with Index Finger even though you have denied knowing who he is...you even sound like him, although a little gentler.

Please take note that I was referring to spiritual warfare. 2 Corinthians 10:3-6 says that our weapons, though not carnal, are mighty through God to the pulling down of strongholds...when we fight spiritual warfare we are fighting with spiritual weapons given to us by God Himself....so we must know how to use these weapons. Please don't stay in your ignorance! I'm really getting tired of you two, Index Finger & Anon 2:25, you know, always trying to sound holier than thou but are really quite hypocrital! When you keep defending an unrighteous man that makes you just as unrighteous as he is....; November 27, 2008 at 10:11 PM
Anonymous said...: All frustrated, kena con, hurt, angry...etc ones,

Time to act la......

I grew up physically and spiritually in CC and sad to see all this dragging on. God have bless me much thru the ppl in CC and i am sure there are ppl here that is able to take action and bring back the good ol'days of CC.

by reading the blog, you guys have all the bullets to shoot and yet can find the gun! To me, voicing all the concern here is like firing blanks!

Go in, over turn the tables and confront the issue and make PG own up to the issue! He may go down to his knee and weep for forgiveness! well,you'll never know if you dont try!

I know it may not be so simple but if you guys gonna continue to calculate this risk involve, nothing will happen!; November 27, 2008 at 10:30 PM
Anonymous said...: yup,yup..hopefully this whole problem will be solved soon....can't wait for it to be solved either; November 27, 2008 at 10:45 PM
Anonymous said...: I think a clarification may be in order as I went back to re-read Art of War's post in its entirely where the quote from Tolkien's movie was taken, (not sure if it was found in his book though).

I am in essential agreement with what he says: if by "showing mercy" he means to be soft in our minds, he is spot on. We must "knock down the strongholds of human reasoning and to destroy false arguments" (2 Cor 10:4 NLT)!

But we must treat people "with mercy," even if they are our "enemies" for Jesus says, "Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful" (Luke 6:36).

Hoping that "Art of War" will respond so that this will not seem like me wanting to get the last word in (again)! :)

Blessings; November 28, 2008 at 12:22 AM
Anonymous said...: Anon 2:25: There, I've commented so you're not the one with the last word :) Thanks for the backup. My reputation is too sullied for my words to be effective; you'll have to do it now.

Firestarter: Patience. Let the TTG Committee do their work. I trust them because I know their hearts are right with God.

Art of War: Jesus healed the ear of the priests' 'bouncer' sent to help crucify Him. PG is only taking our money, not even holding a gun to our heads! And yet Jesus, faced with death, with all the resources of the heavens at His command, said on the cross, "Forgive them, for they know not what they do." Don't believe MY words, but read the Bible for yourself.

ANTI Index Finger: No, I'll start behaving like you and make sarcastic, snide little comments. I've a nasty way with words, but I try to control myself. Obviously you don't. You yourself know how I will behave when I'm provoked and lose my cool; you need only find a mirror and gaze into it.; November 28, 2008 at 3:26 AM
Anonymous said...: Art of War and jl: Correct. PG has shown no mercy to us. But if we're to hit back and fight fire with fire, won't we be stooping to his level? We'll be no better than him!

I know that some of the TTG Committee has been suffering for years (since 1980s when similar happenings occurred). But, notice that the TTG Committee are still giving every chance to the PG to repent, still holding off the ultimate decision to call the cops, even in the face of multiple accusations and threats. Every day passing by is a day when PG can potentially admit, confess and repent.

If that isn't grace, tell me what is. I'm being totally fair to the ex-staff, ex-deacons, TTG, Calvarites; practically everyone who has been hurt by PG. They're the gracious ones in this case; not PG. And if we continue to be gracious, we will not only win a legal victory at the end; we will win a moral and spiritual victory and show the world how true Christians behave.

Now that's the art of war, Art of War.; November 28, 2008 at 3:45 AM
Anonymous said...: "The best victory is when the enemy surrenders of his own accord before there are any actual hostilities."

I also read the Art of War. Both Arts of War, by Machiavelli and Sun-Tzu. But I prefer to turn to the Bible to answer the question of "What do we do with PG?"; November 28, 2008 at 3:48 AM
Anonymous said...: Dear Anon & GMF,

One of the Beatitudes says, "Blessed are the merciful for they shall receive mercy.." PG has not been showing mercy to his sheep, infact he has treated his sheep very harshly, not only making use of theri talents & money for his own benefit, to promote his own name & to build his own kingdom.....he is therefore just reaping what he has sown! PG had not shown mercy therefore he will not receive mercy...can't you see it this way instead of preaching at us about the Lord on the cross, etc? When you quote scripture to back up what you say but leave out other scriptures (which contradict what you say) then you are guilty of twisting scriptures to suit your purposes!

Tell you what...you preach this to PG & PG2...I dare you!

You two keep harping on, still trying to defend his works of unrighteousness - this shows your loyalty - but unfortunately it is blind loyalty to a man & his wife who have been living a lie for the past 42 years!; November 28, 2008 at 8:09 AM
Anonymous said...: Morning to all,

Reading the exchanges between GMF Index Finger, Anon 2.25 and others, I can't help but need to comment as I start my day.

The Bible records a remarkable amount of material about two characteristics of God: mercy and justice. At first glance, these two qualities seem contradictory. Can a gracious, merciful God punish people?

Just as God’s mercy continues to exist, the justice of God likewise is not limited to the Old Testament days. God was and is still serious about people serving Him, and about the consequences for people who choose not to serve Him.

Some conclude that mercy and justice must be mutually exclusive characteristics of God, and, consequently, God never could exercise justice or wrath on anyone, because His mercy prevails. Many of us, I believe, have asked this question in our walk of faith: “How could a merciful God allow souls to be eternally lost?”

Many picture God as akin to a benevolent, grandfather who constantly gives generous gifts, but is extremely hesitant to discipline. In God’s dealings with us, both mercy and justice are present, with the two characteristics balancing each other.

If God is truly good which He is, then He cannot tolerate evil. He did not overlook the sin of Adam (Genesis 3:17-19), Cain (Genesis 4:11-13), Saul (1 Samuel 15:26), or David (2 Samuel 12:8-10), and He certainly will not overlook sin in the modern world, including the case in CC too.

The justice and mercy of God have never contradicted each other. Our Father balances these two qualities masterfully. “Righteousness and justice are the foundation of Your throne; Mercy and truth go before Your face” (Psalm 89:14, emp. added).

Yes, we Christians believe in mercy and justice. Personally, I'm of the view that TTG not only stands for Truth, Transparency and Good Governance, and more importantly Justice too. Many of us long to see the Day of the Lord when He CLEANSES AND RESTORES CC, and JUSTICE is swiftly carried out.

Having said that, assuming one of our pastors has sinned, for instance, he has committed adultery. Would we as a body of believers continue to retain him as our pastor because we are merciful, and not relieve him of that position of God's high calling? Do we sit back and allow him to continue as our pastor, thinking that this is mercy as exemplified by Christ our Lord? God forbids.

Yes, we must show MERCY in the above instance, such as subjecting the said pastor to "rehabilitation" which the AG Council has done in the past, when PG was the GS.

The question I wish to pose to all is : When does God's mercy end and when does His justice begin?"

Have a blessed and joyous day in the Lord.

In His Service,
Winslow; November 28, 2008 at 8:21 AM
Anonymous said...: Hello concerned calvrites

Its time we sue the board of deacons. Its time we strongly urge senior pastor and wife to resign with immediate effect. Its time again the whole board must resign. Dr Lum had resigned, why are you board still staying on? are you having some personal interest in the church? because we got millions in the account? or are you having personal interest in the ccc project? its a huge project with hugh money!

You dare not resign because you still want the power and position?

I remember reading Alan Chan's letter calling for all of you including sp and wife to all resign..please do.

Its time the whole board and sp and wife must apologise to the congregtion for not addressing the crack and accounting mess in the church and the whole episode of wrong doing.; November 28, 2008 at 8:28 AM
Anonymous said...: Wow, bro. Winslow, such wisdom coming from you makes me think that you have a theological degree! Pooi Fook! Pooi Fook!

To Anon 2:25 & GMF, I rest my case. Both bro. Winslow & STL have spoken on my behalf. And they speak better than me, lah! :) happy, happy! Clap hands!; November 28, 2008 at 9:10 AM
Anonymous said...: I suspect the reason why PG and wife do not want to say anything is because they felt they have done no wrong. So as is always their stand - "No need to speak as we are not guilty". As they said - "the money is still there".

To speak up means they are admitting to having done wrong.

So we are all barking up the wrong tree to ask him to speak up, confess, etc., etc.; November 28, 2008 at 9:21 AM
Anonymous said...: Wow, Index Finger..you mean to tell me all this while,your comments have been done while you still hv yr cool? It looks to me to be already sarcastic and snide. So I think if you DO lose yr cool, you'll be akin to a gangster. Enough said. Stop preaching to us.; November 28, 2008 at 9:37 AM
Anonymous said...: Silence is consent.

PG, his family members, the 6 deacons are keeping quiet because they are guilty. They have nothing truthful to say in their own defence. Any decent human being if wrongly accused would definitely speak out.

The pastors involved are under 'management by fear'. While I don't condone their silence, I can understand why they are behaving like that.; November 28, 2008 at 11:17 AM
Anonymous said...: Puzzled: I believe you have a very valid point there.

Winslow: I believe the question of when to be merciful and when to be just can only be settled by God. I know that the TTG Committee is double-checking all their actions with God, only moving when the Lord tells them that the time is right. Which is why they've been waiting for a while before reporting to the authorities, giving time to PG and the BOD to repent.

We can see proof of the TTG's mercy in Dr. Lum's resignation. Dr. Lum has already resigned; perhaps more are to come? If the advice of the many TTG Supporters on this forum was followed (i.e. run straight to the cops) then Dr. Lum would have been swept up in the net long ago. As it is, he has repented and resigned, and the TTGC's actions are mercifully giving time to SP and the other deacons to reconsider, delaying stern justice until the time is right.

Art of War: That being said, there is also a time for justice. The TTG's patience is also running out, and I believe they may soon issue an ultimatum to PG. That's not threatening, by the way, that's informing the person that the TTG are going to do something which they have every right to do.

Anti: Oh, I'm not preaching. I'm just using this forum as it was intended; expressing and discussing different views and the TTG's updates, in a polite and responsible manner. And I'm not threatening; I'm simply telling you that I may do what I have every right to do, especially in light of the accusations levelled at me. Some call me the devil himself; would you like it if I started living up to my moniker?

Oh by the way, If you are feeling any twinges of regret, that's not me. That's your conscience. At the end of the day, everybody is responsible for his/her own actions. You can take my counsel or leave it, the choice is yours. You reap what you sow, and I reap what I sow.; November 28, 2008 at 11:36 AM
Anonymous said...: twinges of regret? Nope, don't feel anything of that sort. But perhaps you do.

Go ahead and live up to that moniker of the devil if you wish, it's your life. Just stop with your 'advises' and self righteous counsels.; November 28, 2008 at 11:49 AM
Anonymous said...: Most probably the BOD & croonies have their hands dip into the pot of Gold.

Otherwise, why so quiet until you can hear a pin fall.

Verdict : Guilty as Charged; November 28, 2008 at 12:20 PM
Anonymous said...: Hi GMF Index Finger and Anti Index Finger,

Cool it my brother(s)/sister(s). Let's not get overboard with our emotions and choice of words.

Obviously there are differences in our views, but let's stick to the issues.

Let's refocus.

God bless and think of a good lunch if you've not eaten yet, but if you already had your lunch think of dinner or even supper. This way, you will lose you appetite to exchange words.; November 28, 2008 at 12:34 PM
Anonymous said...: Lord God Almighty

You are mighty and ever, I uphold GMF Index Finger that Lord your loving kindness and goodness bestow upon him/her; without him/her presence in this comment column, blogging here would be not so exciting; Lord, YOU are a humourous God, at times, YOU know how to comfort us by using the different ones, we shall not lack.

Lord, Help us all including "Index finger" to abide in You. Teach us to have the humility and humble hearts in our attitude towards people who hurt us, condemn us and humiliate us, to the people who are arrogant and proud and harden in heart especially our sp and family.

Lord, once again, may your anointing and heavenly wisdom come forth upon the TTG.

May the bloggers learn to love Index finger for YOUR name sake.

In Jesus name, I pray, amen; November 28, 2008 at 1:18 PM
Anonymous said...: Hey Dr Lum

Congratulations to you for attaining your degree in Master of Divinity, I pray God will use you in a mighty way one again!; November 28, 2008 at 1:23 PM
Anonymous said...: Jeremiah 23
The Branch of Righteousness

1 “Woe to the shepherds who destroy and scatter the sheep of My pasture!” says the LORD.

2 Therefore thus says the LORD God of Israel against the shepherds who feed My people: “You have scattered My flock, driven them away, and not attended to them. Behold, I will attend to you for the evil of your doings,” says the LORD.

3 “But I will gather the remnant of My flock out of all countries where I have driven them, and bring them back to their folds; and they shall be fruitful and increase.

4 I will set up shepherds over them who will feed them; and they shall fear no more, nor be dismayed, nor shall they be lacking,” says the LORD.

5 “ Behold, the days are coming,” says the LORD.; November 28, 2008 at 10:22 PM
Anonymous said...: Amen and amen. Yes, the day is drawing nigh. We will see His cleansing and restoration in CC where the shepherd will attend to his sheep and we will no longer be dismayed. We will be fed and will no longer be hungry. Surely the day is drawing nigh. Amen; November 28, 2008 at 11:14 PM
Anonymous said...: Some laughter p/s

Mr William was vsiting a school to deliver a speech, as he walked down to the hall with the principal, he overheard a conversation of two pretty girls walking behind them about a couple who passed by them holding hands:

"dont you think those two are made for each other?"

the first girl said. " I certainly do," her friend reply. "She is a pill, and he is a headache."

2.Mr william continue to walk with the principal, and this time he heard this conversation, there was a young fellow who say to the boy he was sitting with,

"Why in the world do you hate school so much?"

And his friend said, "I dont hate school. I just hate the principle of the thing."

3. At the next table a young man was reading a book and one of the fellows yelled at him."What are you reading?" " A mystery book?What's the title?" And the boy with the book said, Second year algebra. It's fun to do a little eavesdropping. I overheard a girl say to a boy sitting next to her, "My boyfriend kissed me a hundred times last night. Can you beat that?" "I'm not sure," he said,"but I'm willing to try."; November 29, 2008 at 10:05 AM
Anonymous said...: Dear Brother Winslow:

Thank you for your wonderful reflection on mercy and justice. It kept me thinking for days (hehehe).
You ended your post with an excellent question to all? "When does God's mercy end and when does His justice begin?"
Unless it was meant to be rhetorical, I wish to proffered an answer (just my own reflection): the relationship between mercy and justice is seamless, like a prefect ring without beginning or end. Mercy without justice is a travesty - "mushy"; justice without mercy is cruel (can't find a better word).
Justice and Mercy must always go together.
One of my favorite verses is from the old KJV, from Psalm 85:10
"Mercy and truth are met together; righteousness and peace have kissed each other."

Thank you, brother, for your thoughts.

P.S. Please I do not wish to start another round a heated debate on this.; November 29, 2008 at 2:20 PM
Anonymous said...: Dear Anon 2:25

I have to add this because you do not seem to have fully understood your quote:

"'One of my favorite verses is from the old KJV, from Psalm 85:10
"Mercy and truth are met together; righteousness and peace have kissed each other." '

Your quote is actually describing the Lord Jesus Christ. Only in Jesus can we find Mercy & Truth meeting together, Righteousness & Peace combined together as ONE in ONE Person.

So please don't use it to excuse the sins of PG & PG2.

When GOD executes judgment, it means that mercy has ended and it is time for justice. God always gives time for a sinner to repent - that's mercy and longsuffering..but He has also said that 'My Spirit shall not always strive with men.." There comes a time when the time of grace shall ended. E.g. the grace period for the pre-Flood generations was 120 years - after that, NO MORE MERCY was shown to them, & the Great Flood wiped away all life on earth, except those on the Ark.

Since you like the OT, you should know that God, although merciful, and longsuffering with His people, yet there always came a time when the line is drawn and He says, "Enough is enough!" God did not forsake justice although He was and still is merciful. He is a holy God thus He has required His people to be holy as well. God does not wink at sin, neither does He condone it, especially in the lives of His servants. "To whom much is given, much is required." Brother Winslow has raised a poignant question...when does mercy end & justice begins?

If PG had been humble enough to say sorry & solve the issues with a repentant heart at the EGM instead of orchestrating the BIG HOAX using Guynes & his other hired servants, then this blog would not have even been started! The minute this blog was started, it probably signaled 'the beginning of the end' of the grace period for the high-and-mighty Prince Guneratnam~!; November 29, 2008 at 3:12 PM
Anonymous said...: Dear Dr. Lum,

Congratulations on your attaining your Master of Divinity! It's a great accomplishment, indeed! You ada quali, ah! Maybe in the post-Guneratnam era you can head the care-taker leadership of CC?; November 29, 2008 at 3:43 PM
Anonymous said...: Dr. Lum,
My heartiest congrats to you for your Master of Divinity Degree! You have the genuine stuff...not the honorary titles that [someone] has! Keep serving the Lord! Keep standing up for righteousness, truth, and accountability! The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom.; November 29, 2008 at 5:20 PM
Anonymous said...: Hello a little laughter

So point no 1. its for Petrina and PG. she is a pill, he is a headache. hahaha..

2. its for ttg, we hate the principle of it.hurray

3. its for Pg, he had been trying...hahaha..; November 29, 2008 at 5:29 PM
Anonymous said...: Dear "No More Respect For PG"

Thank you for your response. I respectfully disagree with your interpretation. Psalm 85:10 refers primarily to the LORD, Yahweh, God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. Of course, it would refer to Jesus as well.

And you misunderstand me too. Never did I excuse, nor intend to excuse anyone's sins.

All I intend to say is that justice and mercy should never be separated, even as it united in the Yahweh of the OT and Jesus in the NT.

Blessings and Peace.; November 29, 2008 at 5:41 PM
Anonymous said...: to : anon2.25 and the like,

can we stop to be a bible scholar for a while?
No need to prove your worth here, Jesus is worthy of our caused.. let us not try to outsmart each other? Even if you argue till the cow comes home, many more still disagree and agree..

Anon.2.25, I dont care how u response to me especially when u try to justify whether u want ur last word, people get bored with your intellectual. Maybe you should apply to be a pastor of calvary church. We may have to then keep listening to your preaching and teaching, dont you think its a good proposal?; November 29, 2008 at 5:55 PM
Anonymous said...: does anyone know how the leaders' meeting this afternoon went? Updates updates pls....; November 29, 2008 at 5:58 PM
Anonymous said...: My deepest apologies. It seems to me that my posts have caused more offense than I intended. That has never been my intention. Henceforth, I shall keep my peace. This will be my last post.

My prayer is that the CC situation will be resolved quickly and in a way that pleases our Lord Jesus Christ, who alone is the Head of his church.

May the Lord bless and guides us all. Amen.; November 29, 2008 at 6:11 PM
Anonymous said...: Anon 2.25, please do continue to blog here. I know a few bloggers may have been a bit harsh on you, but some friendly fire is ok I guess. I took the risk when I started the food-for-thot question.

Fellow bloggers, have a blessed Lord's Day tomorrow.; November 29, 2008 at 6:40 PM
Anonymous said...: Our GOD Reigns
PTL, our GOD reigns. The latest i heard was RM 1.1m would be returned from CIM to CC.
This is a slap in the face for sp & the bod. The bod must apologise for making malicious accusations that the ttg was malicious that led to the calling of the egm in march.
This is one of the 'birth pangs'of the restoration of CC. Sp & the bod must go, no 2 ways about it.
Let's keep on praying till the truth (which sets us free) is revealed & righteousness prevails.
Our GOD reigns.; November 29, 2008 at 7:58 PM
Anonymous said...: aiya..ya..yaa, a pill and a headache; this afternoon leaders's meeting is just a pill to cure the headache for a while..

But, what's the point to transfer back the money now? a bit too late now.., does it mean to say Sp admitted wrong now? what's the point transfer the CIM BACK TO CHURCH, DOES IT MEAN, CIM NOW is non-existence.?

is he fit to continue to be our senior pastor?; November 29, 2008 at 8:32 PM
Anonymous said...: Well, with Anon 2:25's departure, I think yet another very good person has left, disillusioned by the treatment received at the hands of the TTG Supporters. I think I'll follow him too; so bye all.

A few observations on this saga:

It appears to me that there is no way any one person can even remotely speak up a word against the TTG Supporters here without immediately being labelled a PG Supporter, and being the target of various comments and hate-remarks. Just goes to show what Calvarites really are like, doesn't it?

There are no absolutes in this world, not while it has not seen the Second Coming. While I agree that PG is sinful, I disagree that he is wholly sinful. While I agree the TTG Supporters are good, I disagree that they are wholly good.

When Anon 2:25, I and Dr. Vijay first commented on this blog, we were trying to speak against the bad-mouthing and vulgar comments then being bandied about. We were ridiculed for that, up until the Blog Admins put their foot down on our side, banning bad-mouthing and the name-based curses like 'GunaRat' and so forth. After having been proved right, we were still said to be PG supporters and every comment met with antagonistic remarks and people who were just spoiling for a fight.

Well, I'm sorry it had to end like this. I guess I will retire the 'Index Finger' moniker, though I'll still be reading the blog. I don't hope to be vindicated; that's too much to hope for really.

All I wish is that things will take a turn for the better, with PG being brought to justice and subsequently lovingly welcomed back to the fold. I also hope that the bad-mouthing stops for good, and I hope that future 'Index Fingers' and Anon 2:25s will not meet with the same uncalled-for remarks I've met here.

Thanks for all the prayers; I know I've been blessed by them. I'll keep praying for you too.

In Grace, with Mercy and Forgiveness,
Index Finger; November 29, 2008 at 8:32 PM
Anonymous said...: Hello Index finger,

u really stubborn, now u and Sp same category, who cares abt ur 'gila-gila' mood, 1 minute this, 1 minute dat..ppl nice wit u, also kena scolding, ppl not nice wit u also kena scolding.. Sp also like dat 1, when he wants to use u, he 'gila-gila' too, very nice lor, until, u cannot resist, wen he finished wit u, huh.. u will roll n cry on de floor..

alas, tidak apa..afterall, most calvarites oso very immuned to tis type of treatment la.; November 29, 2008 at 8:38 PM
Anonymous said...: Bye Index Finger!
However, pls don't put Dr Vijay in the same group as u. I've always appreciated his comments and input, but can't say the same for yrs.; November 29, 2008 at 8:41 PM
Anonymous said...: Bye, Index Finger!

I'm not sorry to see you go! You are quite irritating at times but I guess, deep down inside you are a real good guy, wanting to be merciful & forgiving to someone who is unrepentant & proud. But you are just being Christian, which is good. However, it's just that under these trying circumstances we can't stand your preaching & your holier-than-thou attitude. But I'm sure you will make a very good friend - all of us need a friend who is merciful, loving & forgiving - hope that one day we can be friends. :) No hard feelings!

Having said that, I vote for SP & SAP & the whole Guneratnam family to resign from CC! The BOD as well should follow suit, & resign. A public apology from them is in order. We want a new beginning for CC, with a God-fearing senior pastor, APs & BOD.; November 29, 2008 at 9:01 PM
Anonymous said...: smokescreen
Returning money from cim to church is to 'close the chapter' on cim just like they announce over the pulpit that 'semuanya ok' after the farcical egm; so you don't disturb cim anymore. Don't go on investigating the offerings given, the money transferred, the number of bank accounts and the deposit therein.
Also, start paying your tithes, faith promise, byte size, mission & love offerings, 'so called designated' offerings, etc, etc. Hands off cim, ok folks.Once you do that, old tricks will resurface without anybody the wiser.
Did you realise that whatever pleadings you have; have always been met with a deafening silence, but when the taps are turned off, they started responding, so please continue the turning off the taps until sp & the bod resign. Don't fall for this smokescreen, the battle is far from finish, as they say, it ain't over until the fatlady sings; in this case it's sp & bod resigning.
smokescreen; November 29, 2008 at 9:14 PM
Anonymous said...: To Index Finger

So long, farewell i love to say goodbye.

Goodbye......Goodbye...... Goodbye; November 29, 2008 at 10:06 PM
Anonymous said...: Tomorrow all TTG supporters must say AMEN, Praise the Lord if they announce the return of CIM money.

And we also want to see more money return from SWISS BANK to CALVARY CHURCH.

Let's continue to pray for God to do the miracle.

"Woe to the shepherds who destroy and scatter the sheep of My pasture!” says the LORD."

Woe to the shepherds who took the Lord's portion.

“ Behold, the days are coming,” says the LORD.; November 29, 2008 at 10:17 PM
Anonymous said...: “But I will gather the remnant of My flock out of all countries where I have driven them, and bring them back to their folds; and they shall be fruitful and increase.

Amen Lord, please do gather all the remnant of CALVARY church and do bring them back to CC after PG leaves the church.

Lord Jesus do gather all the monies that belong to CC.
Lord you know where the monies are.
We pray for the return of the monies

In Jesus Name

AMEN; November 29, 2008 at 10:25 PM
Anonymous said...: Returning the RM1.1m does not solve the problem. BOD cannot resolve matter just like that. The root cause of the problem remains.

CIM still remains independent so what makes us think that in future BOD will not do transfers again without letting members know. They say they have wide powers under Constitution and are all powerful! From what has happened so far we have to ask ourselves can we members trust SP and BOD anymore?

I don't think we can be so naive anymore right? We have suffered so much abuse, pain and disappointment already. There has been too much manupilation all this while.

In fact can BOD and pastors just remain quiet and not even apologise over all the blunders? They can accuse dissenting members made malicious remarks earlier and now just quietly say the sum of RM1.1m going to be returned? BOD and pastors have any conscience or not? any sense of accountability to God and members for the truth?

The truth must be fully disclosed and leaders concerned be held accountable/ responsible for what has happened.

Let us return to basics again: There has to be confession and repentance before we can move towards healing and reconciliation.

Aren't we aware about the advice by our Lord: How can we patch up an old and worn out piece of cloth or put new wine into old wine skins? It does not work.; November 29, 2008 at 10:30 PM
Anonymous said...: so what else did PG and BOD talk abt during the leaders' meeting besides the CIM funds?; November 29, 2008 at 10:38 PM
Anonymous said...: I hope you all are not that naive.

If he or they can transfer the RM1.1 mil back to CC, what makes you think that BOD wont transfer back RM2.0 back into CIM account the next day?

The problem or the root cause has not been removed. The church constitution got to be reviewed.
Its just the right breeding ground for another '-------' to rear its ugly head!!!; November 29, 2008 at 11:31 PM
CALVARY TODAY said...: Calvary Today wishes to remind all bloggers to be respectful of each other regardless of whether you believe another is a TTG supporter or SP supporter. We have to learn to accept all comments and criticism, no matter how harsh they may appear. We have to accept that even if we are of one body in Christ, we can have diverse opinions and in fact, are entitled to.

We note that some of you have not been kind to Anon 2:25 and Index Finger. Where is your Christian love? Please do not be judgmental. Be kind to one another and blog responsibly.; November 30, 2008 at 12:55 AM
Anonymous said...: Collateral Damage, feelings hurt,
images bruised, trangressors defiled but PTL, victory for the Lord in heaven.

We have to either banish, exile, or blast the existence of SP & BOD
or let them choose to exit gracefully of disgracefully

Let us have an EGM to

1) Re-elect a new SP, BOD, Auditors
and comittee for CC.

2) Bring back Dr. Lum and let him appoint a comittee to run the church or let him do the preaching since he has obtained his Master of Divinity. Our congratulations to him.

3) Let Dr Lum open a trust fund for CC so that our our offerrings, Tithes, Faith promise will be placed under his jurisdiction.

4) Put our Christmas offerrings written on the envelope to designated person
eg. Christmas Love Offerings designated to so & so or placed under Dr Lum's name and his comittee to handle the financial & administration aspect

5) Appoint God fearing lawyers and spirit filled professionals to amend the Church constitution headed by Dr Lum.

6) Let Dr Lum and his comittee decide on the fate of CCC

Do we have an "aye" from all of you, all ye saints of God ?

Let us have a new beginning for a new era for CC.

The Lord reigns.

Maranatha; November 30, 2008 at 7:31 AM
Anonymous said...: Dear Updates,

Other points in d meet:

SAP stated that some of PG overseas offering/income was credited into CIM...

ASP justified it is acceptable to receive contributions for the CIM from the Mission Fund, since CC has been giving much much more to so many other misssion organisations.

When one of the leaders stated that the BOD is to be blamed for the CIM issue, SAP defended the BOD and said that it was not an attempt to hide the matter but rather it was an oversight!

The status of CIM will remain as an independant organisation...PT said the BOD will continue to sp PG in his personal ministry.

PG Retirement age not mentioned at all.; November 30, 2008 at 8:03 AM
Anonymous said...: Some observations of yesterday events:

1. While cc announced to the leaders regarding the CIM back to church account and remain independent, it made no difference, there is no admission of wrong doing.

2. Index finger and anon.2.25 resign from the blog on the same day too.. how could this be? Are they not the same person?

3. The meeting and announcement had even aggravated the whole wrong. Since sister P. said, there maybe a CBT, so transfer back the money to the church account, She admitted there is a possible CBT?

4. CIM must be dissolved, should not exist..

5. BOD and both SP and wife must resign.

6.Philip Tan and Eric Low, Jim and Pam should be investigated.

7. Reject the Finance committee and the 3 persons recommended.

8. Reject the current appointed church constitution review committe. Must go back to the members to select.

9. Ps Timothy also must resign.; November 30, 2008 at 8:22 AM
Anonymous said...: hello

After the meeting with the leaders, I am even more convinced that it warrant a police case. shall we move on to the authority?; November 30, 2008 at 8:31 AM
Anonymous said...: So the Truth is beginning to reveal itself. It cannot hide forever.

By the way, we may have no right to ask for the dissolution of CIM but we have every legal right to ask that the name CALVARY be taken out of CIM.

Everyone in the business world knows that you cannot register your company by using another established name on it. You cannot call yourself, Standard Chartered International Ministries, Shell International Ministries, KPMG International Ministries, Petronas International Ministtries,..etc. CAN YOU?

So ask for the name of CALVARY be taken out.; November 30, 2008 at 9:14 AM
Anonymous said...: Yes, agree with you " lend me your ears", truth will continue to be revealed, and lies exposed, God wants it that way somehow, taking HIS own sweet time....does it mean to say God, want more than just exposing SP and wife? but more and more of those involved?

Yes, we can ask the word Calvary to be taken out!; November 30, 2008 at 9:42 AM
Anonymous said...: Agreed with Collateral Damage.

No point asking this to resign & that to resign.

The whole dirty linen nead a wash
as white as snow.

We hope Dr Lum will form the comittee and hope there is a calling for him to serve full time in CC.

God Bless all of you.; November 30, 2008 at 9:51 AM
Anonymous said...: Dear Heavenly Father,

We bless Your Holy Name because You are the God of Truth. In You, nothing is hidden for Your Light uncovers and reveals everything, our desire, our thought, our speech and our action.

O Lord, we rejoice for we are beginning to see Your marvellous Light shining through the darkness in Your beloved church.

O Lord Your work of cleansing and restoration in Your beloved church is far from over. Grant us Your strength and wisdom to press on to establish Your Truth, and Your Truth alone.

We pray for your leaders, especially brother Prince Guneratnam and sister Petrina that they will be bold and wise to uphold Truth, Transparency and Good Governance. Let them decrease as You increase in their lives.

Continue to shake us until the fullness of Your Truth is seen in and through Your beloved church.

This is the day that You have made and we will gladly rejoice in it.

In Jesus Christ's glorious and wonderful name. Amen
_________

This song is dedicated to all my fellow CT bloggers and all those who uphold TTG in our church. May this be our prayer on this Day of our Lord and the days ahead as we press on for His Glory, and His Glory alone. Amen

Shine, Jesus, Shine!

Lord, the light of Your love is shining,
In the midst of the darkness shining;
Jesus, Light of the world shine on us.
Set us free by the truth You now bring us;
Shine on Me,Shine on Me,
Shine, Jesus Shine,
Fill the land with the Father's glory,
Blaze Spirit blaze; and set our hearts on fire.

Shine on Me, Shine on Me!
Shine, Jesus, Shine!
Fill the land with the Father's Glory
Blaze, Spirit blaze
Set our Hearts on Fire; November 30, 2008 at 9:59 AM
Anonymous said...: Dear B and Worse than before,
Thanks for the updates. May I know who are the 3 ppl recommended for the Finance committee and also who have been appointed the church constitution review committee?; November 30, 2008 at 10:55 AM
Anonymous said...: Finance Committee: Edward R, Han JK, Lee Tuck Heng, Tam Kok Meng, Au Weng San & Ding Lai Hong

Church Constitution committee: Philip Tan, Bernadette Foo, Helen Gan, Dennis Xavier & Ong Keng Hock; November 30, 2008 at 11:51 AM
Anonymous said...: hm, Philip Tan and Bernadette should not be in the church constitution committee. The committee should be voted in by the members and not self elected. What a suprise that there isn't any TTG members elected in the committee. This is so disappointing.; November 30, 2008 at 12:03 PM
Anonymous said...: Today SK preached (at DH's 2nd service) that "every blessing comes with an accountability" & "don't be ungrateful". SK should tell that to PG who definitely needs to be reminded thus.

The above is an sms that was composed as I listened to SK's preaching this morning & I have just sent it out to all APs & BOD (that is on my address book), plus some Calvarites.

We often hear from the pulpit that God will speak to us through the bible, sermons, friends, circumstances, etc. to remind us when we strayed. I strongly believe that this is applicable to pastors as well since they are as human as you & I.

Though I have mentioned what is in the sms to SK immediately after church service infront of others, I am posting this with the sole intention that PG will get to read the sms & be warned of the pitfalls of not listening to God, as I do not have his mobile phone no. & I feel that APs & BOD who receive the sms will not have the guts to tell him. I pray & trust that someone out there will have the guts to print this & show it to PG.

PG, contrary to your belief, we still love you (not your misdeeds) & we don't want to see you throw away your almost 40 years' ministry due to mistakes made. King David repented. Can you? Won't you?

God is still waiting for you as He loves you, too.

PS Lest someone out there should think that I am trying to sound "holier than thou", let me admit & confess that, like you & PG, I am merely human & I do make the occasional mistakes as well. Rebuke me when I do make them.; November 30, 2008 at 3:46 PM
Anonymous said...: Now that CIM will return some money to CC, Calvarites must not be complacent, we must always remain on our toes and be vigilant.

Who knows whether this is a sweet to make it easier for CIM to be parked in CC as en extended ministry. This cannot be accepted because the risk of this same debacle happening again in the near future maybe in three, five or ten years' time will be there.

Let's all pray that PG and SAP will retire gracefully. Even if both of them have repented and rehabilitated, they should not come back to CC. They must move on to a new ministry and use their own platform.; November 30, 2008 at 4:17 PM
Anonymous said...: I agree with "worse than before".

1. PG cannot just take and return money like that without admitting he is wrong. There is no admission of wrong doing at all

2. Further more returning the money is the first step. It is something which PG does not have a choice. Otherwise the money will be frozen in the bank account if it not returned.

3. Both PG and his wife must resign. This is because both of them cannot be trusted anymore. We have been deceived so many times. I have lost count of it. What makes u think if they are still around both of them will not deceive us again?

4. Al members of BOD must resign as well. How can they still sit on the committee for review of the church constitution. It is just ridiculous!!!

5. All the pastors I mean ALL PASTORS MUST RESIGN. Since all of them have many opportunities to stand up for what is truth and right, all of them choose to ignore the opportunities given to them.

6. AOG Malaysia should step in when this happens.; November 30, 2008 at 4:21 PM
Anonymous said...: Why can't members of CC decide who sits on the review committee? Who appointed all the members of the Finance Committee and Church Constitution Committee?

My concern is if PG is the one who decides who sits on the above commitees, then we are back to square one.
Why is church not telling members of CC what is happening to CIM? I was expecting announcement today from the pulpit that CIM has returned all the funds to CC but no announcements. Does that mean members of CC is not suppose to know? Only leaders are suppose to know?
Why is this so BOD? Remeber it is the members of CC who voted you in the AGM.
Can BOD, pastors or anybody answer my questions? Help!; November 30, 2008 at 4:42 PM
Anonymous said...: you're rite, frustrated church member. If BOD has the nerves to make announcement to the whole church abt the so called malicious allegations by the TTG Group as well as invite the whole church to join in the EGM, they shud do the same for the funds being returned from CIM to CC by announcing it on a Sunday service to ALL church members. BOD, we are very disappointed in you yet again.; November 30, 2008 at 4:47 PM
Anonymous said...: and another thing, BOD and SP/SAP, pls don't make it seem like by returning the money from CIM to CC, u're doing us a big favour. the money shudn't even be transferred to CIM in the 1st place and by you all returning it back to CC, the least u can do is APOLOGIZE to the whole church for embezzling this money. Don't expect us to say thank you to you for returning the money.; November 30, 2008 at 4:50 PM
Anonymous said...: hi Collateral Damage

when giving christmas love offering, i dont think we need to use envelope design by church, we can always give to any particular one by hand if they are from calvary, we can always get a christmas card with that love gift. why waste money, afterall one year once only, christmas day.

Why every giving must go through church? Do you know, according to Sp version and announced by PS SK during one of the Agm, there is a ministerial ethic that they have to follow, that is, the pastor and church staff have to declare every gift they received!

But if I give because of personal gift, do they have to declare?

It was also rather strange that when both our Sp and wife received the car as a gift according to their version, but not sure how they declare it?; November 30, 2008 at 5:04 PM
Anonymous said...: Dear only lady deacon,

how can u said CIM account is now ok? May i know why the money transfer back now to mission account? ( Now only..), is it something to do with NECF deregistered the membership and also some mishandling of document?; November 30, 2008 at 5:12 PM
Anonymous said...: Talking about the car, the latest I heard from a CC worshipper that he was kept informed that the PG's car was a gift by 10 individuals from CC who have committed to pay a few hundred ringgit a month per person to pay the instalments for PG's RM400,000.00 Volvo.

Is this true?; November 30, 2008 at 5:17 PM
Anonymous said...: Dear Special Q. for Ms lady deacon

The transfer of funds back from CIM to CC Missions is more than meet the eyes.

1) At EGM, SP didn't give any indications at all that he would return the money. I remember the question asked by the son of a deacon on the matter but PG did not give any indication he would. Why a sudden change of heart? Was it a Hobson's choice (only choice left) because CIM was deregistered by NECF and the banks could freeze the bank accounts arising from it.

2) Not all the funds in CIM belong to CC Missions. There were personal gifts and love offerings given to CIM too. Why did CIM transfer these to CC Missions as CIM account is zero, kosong, nought. Why, why, tell me why?

It's fishy!; November 30, 2008 at 5:25 PM
Anonymous said...: Yes very fishy!

Look at the names of all those in the new finance comm. Edward R & Lee Tuck Heng. How can these two be in the comm. It is because of their negligence in carrying out their duties all these years(one taking care, the other checking and making sure they were ok on our behalf) - failed their jobs that's why we are in this big shameful mess today.

If they do not want to be shamed and embarassed their family and tarnish their Professinal firms, they better get smart and stay away from daring to sit in any new committees in church. They were appointed by SP, and failed miserably before and they are appointed by SP again now - Do you think they will not make sure and help SP get the millions back into his pocket again. This time they will cover tracts properly. None of the new committee can be trusted. Not even LTH from his reputable company.; November 30, 2008 at 5:44 PM
Anonymous said...: Hey, I just noticed that out of the 6 Deacons left on board - only Patrick Wong & Stephen Liu are not in the new committees.

Good for you 2 men. At least you know when to call it quits. You must be commended for that. Quite frankly, you 2 good men should take Dr. Lum's lead and resign from the Board before you get sucked into the web that SP is constantly spinning for innocent guys like you.

The rest of the other 4, inspite all all the calls for their resignation- still hang on to High sounding positions to boost their ego. If SP is still sitting on the throne of Calvary, you loyal supporters of SP will never be trusted by church members - please let God be God to use Godly men and women to take back the throne from SP & SAP. I cannot believe a church of 10,000??? members have only got you few people to choose from year in year out.; November 30, 2008 at 6:21 PM
Anonymous said...: good point....we got '10,000' church members but only a few ppl who serve in everything.deacons also nd to be recycled to be in the constitution committee and finance committee.something is wrong here...either the rest of the 9,980 church members got problem so much so tat they r not qualified to be involved or the 20 church members who r serving in all this board of deacons,missions committee n now constitution committee got problem...; November 30, 2008 at 6:41 PM
Anonymous said...: Watch out for this....After transferring the money back to CC (to save his own neck just in case IRB freeze CIM's accounts & begin investigation into CIM), PG's next step would be to worm his way into getting CIM registered as an Extended Ministry of CC. ...after that, PG would get back the RM1.1m. transferred back into CIM again probably will be saying that the money belongs to CIM in the first place!!! What a devious mastermind he is...! And unfortunately, the BOD is eating out of his hands!

By the way, E.R of BOD...when are you going to release the financial accounts of Extended Ministries for all to see? You are prone to making promises you can't keep, ah? Stop being a pawn for PG...he's going to get you into the mud with him, lah! Wake up, man!; November 30, 2008 at 6:57 PM
Anonymous said...: PG got no other choice but to transfer CIM funds to CC Mission. CT already saw it coming and therefore the transfer is nothing new, and who knows, when the coast is clear, PG may transfer it back to CIM. We can't rule out this possibility as PG is very sly.

What's really good news will be PG stepping down as SP as his position in CC is untenable. PG, please do the honourable thing. Step down!; November 30, 2008 at 7:36 PM
Anonymous said...: Reading some of the lastest comments surprises and saddens me. Does no one really care about finding common ground to move forward? All who really want the church to make positive changes to move forward should not take the position of "my way or no way". In fact, those who advocate the "my way or no way" position are not the catalysts but rather the stumbling blocks for the healing and reconciliation of the church.; November 30, 2008 at 9:05 PM
Anonymous said...: To discernment needed...

Do you realise that it is always "his way (PG) or no way". Every action is always that. The members are very sceptical as to whether the "moving forward" does not have his (PG) fingers in everything, even the selection of the committees.

The members and even worshippers attended the "moving forward" promise by the BOD and yet when they made all the decisions (all by themselves), these were only made known to leaders. What about the rest of the members and the worshippers.

This is definitely a "his (PG) way move"

TO's comment in both the 2 and 3 pm meetings (hopefully it was not at he 4 pm meeting - if someone could confirm this) is definitely orchestrated to draw pity.

It would be good if it is "GOD'S WAY FOR CC".; November 30, 2008 at 9:41 PM
Anonymous said...: Referring to anonymous B at 8.03am and Worse than before at 8.22am, since when has SAP became the spokesman for PG. On the meeting in the blog, there was no mention of PG saying anything! A couple of thoughts come to mind. One, at their brainstorming session before the meeting, it could have been decided that PG keeps mum and SAP speaks for him. Two, shifting the blame game, if it gets hot, PG will say that SAP said it, not me. (Not surprising, isn't it) Three, if PG speaks and if under intense questioning, he may not want to say the whole truth reverting to half truths again.

"PG Retirement age not mentioned at all". Question: Since as per Staff Handbook, PG and SAP have exceeded the retirement age for pastoral staff, has contract appointment letters been given to them in writing by the BOD and ratified by members? If not, technically they are not supposed to be the SP and SAP of CC. Is there no laws in CC?

On the appointment of the Finance Committee, three members are presently Deacons. Isn't this unbalanced in their favor?

On the Church Constitution Committee, two are Deacons (one a strong Yes-man). Readers make their own conclusion.

In my humble opinion, each committee should comprise only one Deacon to represent the Church, one TTG member to safeguard the neutrality of the committee and the rest from the Church members who are knowledgeable in the respective fields

It is seen that the BOD has once again shown their arrogance by making unilateral decisions colluding with PG without due consideration, consultation nor feedback from the members of the Church. When? When? When will they carry out their responsibilities unbiased and with integrity with the Fear of God in them?; November 30, 2008 at 10:16 PM
Anonymous said...: Discernment needed...do u think there can ever be healing and reconciliation if PG remains as senior pastor of CC? In order for there to be a full healing and reconciliation for the church, the following nds to happen:
1. SP, SAP and BOD acknowledges to the members their mistakes and ask for forgiveness

2. SP and SAP to receive spiritual disciplinary action from AG council. This is for their good.

3. BOD to resign and CC to have a new board of deacons and elders.

If the above does not take place, the church will never be restored.; November 30, 2008 at 10:23 PM
Anonymous said...: Just like I think the calling for those who may not agree with the decisions of the church to leave (the church) is not the way, neither do I think that the calling for the resignation of the church leadership is the resolution. Borrowing a secular term ... why can't the various parties meet unconditionally for talks/discussion to seek for an acceptable way to move forward? Come to the table without stipulating what the other person must or must not do. The conclusion could be that perhaps certain leaders will withdraw or otherwise but this is not a precondition to sit down and talk. Perhaps this is the way forward for the restoration of the church.; November 30, 2008 at 11:10 PM
Anonymous said...: Dear Discernment needed

Do u think we have not tried talking to the leaders of the church?
You must have not read the blog from the day we started.; November 30, 2008 at 11:14 PM
Anonymous said...: Discernment needed...I think what has been happening for almost a year now is this:

1. TTG group arranging meetings to talk to BOD

2. After meetings, many queries surfaced and TTG asks for explanation from BOD

3. BOD gives flimsy answers and tries to cover up and protect themselves and PG

4. TTG tried to arrange for more meetings with BOD, other church members write in to BOD as well

5. BOD gives more flimsy answers and thinks up of more ways to protect themselves and PG

6. Repeat step 1-6 again and add in some occasional witch hunt by PG, ie. firing of head deacons, removal of communion servers as well as some occasional comdemnation from the pulpit

As you can see, this will be a never ending cycle if PG does not resign. There will be no resolution if BOD remains either.; November 30, 2008 at 11:28 PM
Anonymous said...: Some one had blogged here using my initial. Please note I am not the one who published the comment at 6.20pm, I was out for a function. Thanks; November 30, 2008 at 11:35 PM
Anonymous said...: No sorrows in God's blessings.
Siew Chyuan @ 3.46pm

Your suggestion to SK to remind pg that "every blessings comes with accountability & don't be ungrateful" is perfectly alright, except that those are definitely not blessings for pg. Those are 'ill-gotten gains' that he amassed thru deceits, manipulations, lies & schemings. He had put his hand in the till, took money meant for helping those in need, for his lavish lifestyle & pursuing after worldly recognition, but worst of all, was aided & abetted by the other pastors & bod, who have either stood by in silence or defended him vehemently, out of blind loyalty or in fear of him.
When GOD blesses, He adds no sorrow to the blessings, but can you see that in the lives of pg & his whole family. He had negated whatever contributions he had made cos of greed & pride.
TTG, please do not rest or relent, but continue in your pursue of Truth, Transparency & Good Governance, until the resignation of pg & the rest of the bod, for until then & then only will healing & restoration takes place.
We are begining to see God moving & his vindication of the ttg group who had all this while been maligned & labelled malicious by the bod.
God bless the ttg group and continue to make everything beautiful in His time.
No sorrow in God's blessing; December 1, 2008 at 12:07 AM
Anonymous said...: Dear Collateral Damage,

Your suggestion to put designated offerings to so and so, be put into the offering bag. Please do not do that. You will get that receipient into great trouble, unless you want to designate to a "G" family member.

I heard some some in the past got people designate love offerings to them and they were "interogated" by SP as to why members would want to give money to church staff other than him. He suspects the staff to go around telling sad stories to get members sympathy and give them money.

Please please, if you want to bless someone, give to that person personally, prefebably outside of church grounds becoz got cameras every where and they may see you handing the envelope to that staff.You will really get that receipient in big trouble with SP.; December 1, 2008 at 12:24 AM
Anonymous said...: No sorrows in God's blessings,

I don't understand what you meant by "except that those are definitely not blessings for PG."

When mentioning the sms to SK, I had told him to tell PG that God had blessed PG with a big church & for that PG is accountable to us CC members. This was mentioned in the presence of some Concerned Calvarites but I doubt that SK will repeat my comment to PG.

I trust you now understand my sms better.; December 1, 2008 at 12:34 AM
Anonymous said...: Hello to, "the truth is out there".

I think you think too much. No need, they use the greatest weapon known to man - TEARS - to get sympathy. Everyone knows that SAP is well known for crying and sobbing for her family because members question them. She cry in front of everyone - church staff devotion, tuesday ladies worship and even while praying for the end of service. So what's a few more tears in front of church leaders to get sympathy votes. Not surprising.

As for TO, maybe RY, too embarassed to cry like baby in front of members now (remember how he cried at AGM) so get the other great actor, TO, to do his acting - cry baby role. It is appraisal time now for increment coming soon.; December 1, 2008 at 12:41 AM
Anonymous said...: Dont talk anymore. No more talking.

Dont be distracted again.

Do not restrain the two persons wanting to report to the .....

GO! GO! GO!; December 1, 2008 at 2:58 AM
Anonymous said...: Hello AOG

I am just a ordinary christian in calvary church, not a 'big shot' or
leader. When I read of the truth in this blog, the latest news about CIM transfer back money to church mission account but still remain as a personal and independent minsitry, I cannot comprehend.

Can AOG do something about this type of conduct, money'suka-suka' transfer from one account to another, membership of fraternity also register here and deregister there.. what are all this mess?

AOG, by now, I am sure, you had received a lot of complaints and written complaints regarding the senior pastor, What are the possible discipline should a minister of God who committed such act?; December 1, 2008 at 8:50 AM
Anonymous said...: To our fellow comrades in arms,Mari.T & No love offerings to others :-

Points noted but that was what we were informed to do when we want to designate to a specific pax.

You mean our SP even has a hand on this ?
Then, where is Love ?

Ok, then we give cloak & dagger style same to our Tithes, Faith Promise, etc..etc...etc...

We have read that SP got a car as a gift and we may have just opened a can of worms.

Are there any more cans of worm ?

Does he tithe on this gift and does he declare to the Tax authorities ?

We were surprised when he said the church receipts need not tithe which contradict his earlier statement.
Wish I had tape it up.

Anyone want care to assist on this statement ?

Another point is all the Finance & CC comittee appointed are all Yes persons.

Is it constitutional ?

Isnt it illegal ?

Dont we need an EGM to appoint these persons?

All the current signatories to all the financial documents, Report & Resolution passed are a disgraced to their professional
integrity.

We may have to report these to the relevant authorities to have their names struck off from their respective professional bodies.

We shall not be generous with our hands anymore when put up our hands
to pass a resolution or report.

We shall only put up our hands in
"nyes" instead of "ayes"

We hope & pray that Dr Lum will take up the Head of CC comittee and why wasnt Dr Lum elected to be in the comittee if they want tranparencies?

Another cloak & Dagger saga ?; December 1, 2008 at 9:14 AM
Anonymous said...: Yes...yes, report to their professional bodies.

Some of them are with International Affliations.

Make them responsive and not simply
sign...sign blindly.

One of them is high in my "Wanted" list.

You know who you are.; December 1, 2008 at 9:57 AM
Anonymous said...: PRAISE GOD TTGroup has been vindicated from "malicious allegation" because CIM funds will be transferred back to CC.

When will it be transferred back and what assurance can the BOD, esp ER give that they are not authorised to transfer any more money to CIM in future?

Question: why is PG transferring his personal ministry gifts back to CC. He is the only one who can throw light but he does not want to speak.

Can it be he also misled the bank to allow him to open an account like he tells NECF that CIM is extended ministry of CC? The bank now knows the true facts and gives him the option to freeze the money or he withdraws?

If he withdraws in his own capacity, he will have to face the music of the inland revenue coming after him for money he received and never pay taxes (church funds are income tax exempt). He cannot say he does not know the laws of the country esp when he is Tan Sri and it will be shame shame......

Leaders were told about the transfer but why not the other non leaders? Are they the 2nd class members of CC? Are they not expected to pay tithes, faith promises, leap of faith, offerings etc. We should expect announcement on Sunday 30/11/08 about the meeting with the leaders on 29/11/08 - no announcement whatever.

TTGroup - please continue to work towards uniting us as single entity and not isolate members like the present stand of the church leadership.

Voice of a leader; December 1, 2008 at 11:17 AM
Anonymous said...: Can we just go to the authorities and report this CBT, IRB dept
The whole CC saga is getting out of hand.
PG won't apologise and instead got his other half to talk on his behalf.
Let us just get over with this thing by reporting to the authorities
What say all of you?; December 1, 2008 at 2:30 PM
Anonymous said...: I concur with Fed Up Already; December 1, 2008 at 2:49 PM
Anonymous said...: Let's all pray asking our Lord whether we should issue an ultimatum:

THE 6 GUNERATNAMS AND 6 DEACONS AND PETER ONG STEP DOWN (AND WE HAVE AN AGM/EGM TO NOMINATE AND VOTE FOR NEW DEACONS, COMMITTEES ETC.) OR WE GO TO THE AUTHORITIES.; December 1, 2008 at 3:24 PM
Anonymous said...: Ultimatum;

Great let me know when you are going and we will meet at the IPK KL opposite old Pudu Jail. We can always complain that the Chairman and BOD are transferring funds from Calvary Church (CC) to CIM and CIM to CC; and as members we would like the Police to investigate.

Then we will march to Jalan Duta Inland Revenue to launch a report whether CIM pay taxes for fund received. We will proceed to ACA's office-just opposite the Jalan Duta and lodge a complain about BOD corrupting the chariman of BOD CC and President of CIM. After that we will all drive to Bank Negara Compalain Bureau and complain that the safe depositing of the money collected from members and put as fixed deposit collecting interest in view of the original CC fund.

Let's go and walk the talk. and we set to meet at the Commercial crime office IPK KL with an agreed date to start with. Let us do it ! don't waste time!!; December 1, 2008 at 5:28 PM
Anonymous said...: Dear Ultimatum

Where got 6 Guneratnams? Sure or not? How did you get 6?; December 1, 2008 at 5:29 PM
Anonymous said...: think ultimatum is counting the son-in-law and daughter-in-law too...; December 1, 2008 at 6:07 PM
Anonymous said...: Oh I see. So it's CG and AG.; December 1, 2008 at 6:23 PM
Anonymous said...: No sorrows in God's blessings
Siew Chyuan @ 12.34am

"sau toh"
No sorrows in God's blessings.; December 1, 2008 at 7:08 PM
Anonymous said...: Sins and more sins

Aiyo....yo

The neck that moves the head did the talking.

Worse, cause now PG & NFF (Ngiaw Foon Foon) blamed the BOD for not doing their job.

You mean BOD cannot advise PG & NFF on this matter?????

Then the WHOLE BOD is of no use.
ALL the BOD are not working full time in church.
They are working in the circular or corporate world

PG & NFF is also blaming the Accountant and the AUDITORS too.

ER & LTH were there when all these things happened.

They said they do not know...????????

ER and LTH, do you know that they should transfer the fund to CIM?????

What will your colleagues and clients think of you??????

If ER and LTH do not stand up, your reputation will be gone.; December 1, 2008 at 8:23 PM
Anonymous said...: ERIC LOW

You are a company secretary by profession !!!!!!!

Now I wonder how you got your certificate.!!!!!!!

SAP,

To stand behind the pulpit and tell us such things?????

Please, I said please do not TAINT the pulpit. If you need to lie again, please do not use the pulpit to address to the leaders anymore.; December 1, 2008 at 8:32 PM
Anonymous said...: Please ignore Discernment Needed. He's trying to stall the TTG work. The last time he appeared on the blog he was casting doubt on Dr. Vijay's integrity. There was a call for Discernment Needed to apologize to Dr. Vijay for being rude, and lacking in true discernment. However he didn't apologize, but went into hiding! AND NOW HE'S RE-SURFACED AGAIN.....TO TRY TO STALL TTG! I think he's "Why So Long" in disguise! So beware of him!; December 1, 2008 at 9:30 PM
Anonymous said...: Who says only the 6G's, BOD and PO must STEP DOWN. ALL the pastors of CC must also STEP DOWN.

They all must GO,GO. RESIGN RESIGN RESIGN ALL OF THEM MUST RESIGN!!!!; December 1, 2008 at 10:38 PM
Anonymous said...: Ha! still in square one after all!

all you ppl here NATO la!

Nothing have been achieve since day 1! The truth (so called la) have been made known yet nothing is done!

member bashing members, members bashing the fellows WORKING for PG, The fellows working for PG bashing the members....it goes on and on and it will be this way when PG enjoy all the $$$!; December 2, 2008 at 12:54 AM
Anonymous said...: NATO! NATO! NATO!

Dont kid yourself.; December 2, 2008 at 12:56 AM
Anonymous said...: Petrina,

I'm extremely surprised you can also spin, probably as well as PG. You said you & PG are not from secular world as both of have been in ministry all these years, and therefore don't know what is CBT, etc, etc. You display Adam's character when you said the Missions Committee and the Board gave both of you the $$$ and you happily received as everyone was happy. Tell this to the judge when you are hauled up before the court. How did you know that everyone was happy? Did you ask or was it just an assumption?

So you want to spend your time counselling others. I think you should more time going for counselling yourself.; December 2, 2008 at 8:10 AM
Anonymous said...: Petrina,

I am really disappointed in you. You talk about God, preached His Word, counselled people to honour God, but your own life is going the opposite direction...you only see $$$$ before your eyes, you have lost your vision because of greed and covetousness, so how can you stand before the Lord one day? Can you look Jesus in the eyes & say the same lies that you have been 'spinning from the pulpit'? The women of the church had looked up to you all these years but you are ONE, BIG LET-DOWN! I had thought at first that maybe it's your husband's fault but looks like you are in the same league as him...both of you are after the MONEY! Have you forgotten that Jesus said, "For what shall it profit a man/or a woman in this case, if she gains the whole world but loses her own soul"? Is it worth it to burn in hell-fire for eternity because of MONEY? I am SORRY for you!

And what's worse, you & your husband have stumbled so many of the Lord's sheep! Wow, I AM SORRY for you!; December 2, 2008 at 8:22 AM
Anonymous said...: Dear Heavenly Father,

We ask for your mercy and righteousness to reign in Calvary Church. We believe You see all the deception, lies and manupilation happening right in our CC leadership. You see all the disgrace and shame the leadership has brought to the Body of Christ. But out of Your mercy and grace You are withholding Your judgment. Despite all that has been said and requested by deeply concerned members the leadership has brushed all issues aside and still bulldozed their way with their own deceiving plans. The deception and lies continue to flow unceasingly from Pastors and BOD and even from the pulpit.

Dear Lord, we pray that You will look down upon all with love and compassion and bring these terrible events to a close soon.

We believe as You said when sin is in full bloom it will yield corruption and death but in Christ there is redemption and life. Let us all our Pastors and BOD choose life, peace and joy in our Lord.

May they give up all the fleshy and arrogant ways of handling God's work (business as they call it) and instead yield totally to the Holy Spirit's leading. Let Christ-likeness be restored in their lives once again.

We see all the wickedness and calamity happening in the world around us but CC is unable to stand out as a lighthouse to meet needs around us because there is all these tainted and disgraceful things happening among Pastors and BOD. How to be fountain head church? Show us Your mercy and lead us in paths of righteousness instead. In Jesus' Name I pray.; December 2, 2008 at 10:27 AM
Anonymous said...: The recent issue of KEY magazine has an interesting article by LULA BAIRD, one of the early A/G missionaries who helped to pioneer the A/G movement in Malaya, on pp.20-21, entitled, "Never Touch the Gold Nor The Glory." Do get a copy from BCM & read it.

By the way, Lula is still alive today, aged 100 years old, & still serving the Lord in USA.

Interestingly enough, on pp.18-19, Delmar Guynes has also written an article for KEY magazine to congratulate the Class of 2008, entitled, "Owe No Man Anything" (Romans 13:8).; December 2, 2008 at 11:31 AM
Anonymous said...: Our God Reigns!!!

I see now, why things seemed to be moving slowly in our eyes but God in His Great Wisdom and Power has done it His Way.

He has taken back the money that was taken from Him secretly. He has taken back what belongs to Him rightfully. No one can take what belongs to Him and no one can keep what He did not bless.

BOD, SP & SAP, you better start giving back to God what belongs to Him - His Glory, His Honor, His Church, His people, His Children whom Jesus Himself redeemed and the list goes on and on. Do not wait till the next round where God has to rise up again to claim His Possessions back again. Give Back To God what belongs to God immediately.; December 2, 2008 at 11:43 AM
Anonymous said...: Amen to Our God Reigns#2.
Amen to NO sorrow in God's blessings.

God is patient and long suffering.
He is waiting for the return of the money.

PG & NFF please return all the monies that belongs to Calvary Church. You know where the monies are kept.

Please do not delay for time is running OUT.

Woe to the shepherds who took the Lord's portion.

PG & NFF, please return back the Lord's portion!!!!!!!!
They are not meant for you.

Do not deceived the leaders again.
Your friends did not give the money to you but for the church ministries.

If Aunty Constance is around, she would be so heart broken to know that her son and daughter-in-law has taken the Lord's portion.; December 2, 2008 at 3:01 PM
Anonymous said...: Praise God for answering my prayer.
I whisper a prayer on October 21, 2008 10:18 AM on the prayer posting;

"Father in Heaven,
I thank you that You are always watching over us from on high.You are truly the great I AM
I ask you will forgive the wrong doings in our beloved church.
Father, I pray for the return of all the monies that were taken from the mission department that were claimed from church for personal gain.........."

In deed our GOD is a prayer answering GOD.

God is Almighty God. HALELLUJAH

I am waiting for God to answer the 2nd Portion of the prayer.

The prayer of a righteous man avails much.

God, the TTG are standing for Truth Transparency and good Governance. You wants this in the church that we may stand blameless before you.

Thou doth wonderous things.
Thou are God and God alone

God will continue to use the TTG to fulfil His Plans.
AMEN; December 2, 2008 at 3:30 PM
Anonymous said...: Dear Heavenly Father,

We thank You because You are a prayer answering God. It may seem that we are rejected and drawn around in circles by Pastors and BOD but we know God has heard our cries and pleas to Him.

We pray that surely and steadily the truth will be established and that the lies and coverups by CC leadership are being exposed.

Dear Lord Jesus we pray that Holy Spirit will convict the hearts of Pastors and BOD to come forth and speak the truth and lead in the repentance and healing process.

We pray that they will not do anymore side kicks and act in pretence anymore. Just last sunday, we heard from the pulpit that we are to look into the Word, which is like a mirror and do what is needed of us and not walk away and forget what has been revealed to us. So likewise we pray that Pastors and BOD themselves will also heed the same message that is preached to members and worshippers.

We pray SP & SAP's, Pastors' and BOD's hearts will be gentle and responsive to Your Word again. Remove the hardness of hearts and pride and arrogance in Pastors and BOD.

May they sincerely humble themselves before You, seek Your face and repent from their own fleshy ways and God will forgive and hear from high and bring fresh anointing and blessings again, not sorrow, pain and disgrace.

Thank You Father that You love us all and desire to see good in us. Move gentle Holy Spirit and work a miracle in our Pastors and BOD to bring about truth and righteousness in CC again. In Jesus name we pray... AMEN; December 2, 2008 at 10:15 PM
Anonymous said...: Conversation overheard :-

Rodent 1 : Heard that there are a lot of bugs around here.

Rodent 2 : Yeah, Yeah, Got bitten so many times.

Rodent 3 : We know who to call :

Roach Busters !

Rodent 4 : Right,, Right.... Terminate all of them....; December 3, 2008 at 6:14 AM
Anonymous said...: Morning Exterminator

You don't call Roach Busters to exterminate rodents. The professionals are known as pest exterminators/controllers.; December 3, 2008 at 8:00 AM
Anonymous said...: To 'fire started' and NATO

Laugh all you want. Do you think God is silent? He is working in mysterious ways that you may not know. It does not mean that God is not working because nothing is happening.
It is not "no action talk only". God is silently working behind the scenes moving situations and incidents. In HIS time God will have HIS way not our way.

So WATCH OUT!!!!!; December 3, 2008 at 8:06 AM
Anonymous said...: Looks like CC saga is not going to be resolved. The BOD, PG and the rest of the pastors think by returning CIM money to CC, the whole issue can be resolved. CC members will start giving their tithes, FP and love offerings back to the church because the CIM money is returned.
During the leaders meeting, apparently Sister P claimed she does not know what is CBT. What a joke!

Sorry BOD,PG and all pastors. Your are wrong. You have not resolved the main issue.
PG has lost his shepherd's heart. PG has to step down as SP of CC.
As long as PG is still SP of CC, I will CONTINUE TO STOP GIVING!!!!!

I urge all the other church members to do the same until SP RESIGNS.

What say you guys and ladies out there?; December 3, 2008 at 8:18 AM
Anonymous said...: Dear Church member

Let us not be too harsh - be merciful as God is always merciful. Whatever has happened PG is still our brother-in-Christ - let us show compassion and love.

PG please retire gracefully and do the calling God has placed on your heart - An Evangelist. This looks as if it is the only way for you.

Do not drag your family and others down.; December 3, 2008 at 8:54 AM
Anonymous said...: PG,

Retire gracefully as SP of CC or else you will BE RETIRED BY OTHER MEANS. We will pursue this matter until you either retire on your own accord or by some other accord for your position as SP of CC is no longer tenable. You have lost it all, so step down gracefully, and we pray our Lord will restore you to Him.; December 3, 2008 at 9:18 AM
Anonymous said...: As long as PG is still SP of CC, I will CONTINUE TO STOP GIVING!!!!!; December 3, 2008 at 9:49 AM
Anonymous said...: Mrs G,
Oh oh, you have put your foot in your mouth ...big time. What a let down you are. We expected you to knock some sense in PG but instead you are covering for him. You have opened yourself to endless criticisms even as you have stumbled many of us. My respect for you is GONE.I cannot respect and admire you anymore. You are in the same league as PG. You both should be weavers and are better off spinning actual yarn. Spin all you want at the loom but dont think you can deceive most of us by pleading ignorance. What a joke! We are so so disappointed in you.; December 3, 2008 at 10:23 AM
Anonymous said...: PG retiring will not be the lone factor-those whose conspire and protect PG on their own call; not God's preaching should also leave. The BOD and certain pastors are the stumbling blocks to the church worshipers. Now to bring visitors and relatives (especially those who has yet to receive Christ); will have to think twice! IT is a fact of how serious the stumbling block; the whole saga had created.; December 3, 2008 at 10:29 AM
Anonymous said...: Church Member, your comment "during the leaders meeting, apparently Sister P claimed she does not know what is CBT. What a joke!"

Imagine NFF is caught by a polis for beating the lights & she tries the same by saying "wa tak tau lampu merah tak bolih jalan", guess what the polis will say "itu lu punya fasal, inilah saman".

Will NFF tell God on Judgement Day the same "I don't know that taking the RM 1.9m is CBT"? Does NFF think that God will buy that? Has NFF been keeping up with her reading the Word? She sounds so much like Adam who blamed Eve or even Eve who blamed the serpent.

NFF, please be more original lah. You sound like Satan who is a copycat.; December 3, 2008 at 11:19 AM
Anonymous said...: Hi CBT

Hahaha...

Polis saman also paid by Calvary Church.

BIM studies all in the rubbish dump.

Parent's guidance also forgotten.

Hahaha....; December 3, 2008 at 11:54 AM
Anonymous said...: I would seek unto God, and unto God would I commit my cause.

Is anything too hard for the Lord? Commit thy way unto the Lord; trust also in him; and he shall bring it to pass.

Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known unto God.
Casting all your care upon him, for he careth for you.

Hezekiah received the letter from the hand of the messengers, and read it: and Hezekiah went up unto the house of the Lord, and spread it before the Lord.

And Hezekiah prayed unto the Lord. It shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear.

The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

I love the Lord, because he hath heard my voice and my supplications. Because he hath inclined his ear unto me, therefore will I call upon him as long as I live.; December 3, 2008 at 11:58 AM
Anonymous said...: Proverbs 28:13

People who cover over their sins will not prosper.
But if they confess and forsake them, they will receive mercy.; December 3, 2008 at 12:16 PM
Anonymous said...: always the wrong foot forward,

the new committee which the church has set up or intend to set up, i wonder why are certain people appointed to the committee. Whose directive is it to appoint certain individual??? shouldn't the person represent the voice of the congeration to ensure transparency and avoid partitality.
those elected in the committee should be nominated to be voted into office with at least 10 names to support their norminatation
you may ask me why so complicated process . this is all because the church has not proven itself to be transparency thus far.

CC do it right otherwise again your result will again be question. anyone or everyone in the church may qualify to sit in the committee. otherwise set a certain guideline to qualify to be norminated

This is why your accountant and legal opinion till dated is questionable and a waste of money.

start it right and your finding or your recommondation will not be question.
my 2 cents of thoughts.
it is either the BOD do not know better or sad to day it has being directed by ?????????.; December 3, 2008 at 12:44 PM
Anonymous said...: SP, SAP, APastors and BOD,
You know deep in your hearts that there are serious wrong doings and coverups so don't pretend anymore. Don't act deaf & dumb or innocent and ignorant. You are slipping down deep in the pit and stuck in the mud already.

Better humble yourselves, do the needful confess and repent and initiate the healing and reconciliation process otherwise there will await you further shame and disgrace. Why pull your whole families into the mud too? Is it worth bracing yourselves against all the shame and disgrace by pretending and ignoring all the pleas? It is getting worst and worst everyday.

GOD is not silent but you have been ignoring all the warnings which are already clearly written on the walls!; December 3, 2008 at 12:52 PM
Anonymous said...: I was at BCM graduation yesterday . notice something puzzling when i was reading the key magazine.

Catherine Mak who has left calvary church some time ago still have congratulatory message for her from Calvary Church members.

Raymond Yong who is a current associated pastor do not have even one congratulatory not even for his boss. is this not sad. What an eye opener. Raymond it took you 7 long years to completed your diploma . this is your first congratulation. My prayers is you would be equip now to serve God better........not man...

truth is painful.; December 3, 2008 at 1:08 PM
Anonymous said...: Dear Man may fail but God never,

Yes, I was at the BCM Graduation last nite too and I was shocked that Pas. RY didn't have a single congratulatory message from anybody, and the deepest cut I guess was from his own employer, Calvary Church.

What a big big big .........letdown, that PG the SP of CC did not deem it fit to at least congratulate RY. If I'm not wrong 1 page ad is about RM1,000. Don't tell me CC can't afford that amount for a man who has served umpteen years in CC.

RY, your big boss PG can travel business class costing ten of thousands for one single trip, and here you are, slogging for years to get your BCM Diploma and yet he didn't acknowledge your success. If you're not sad, I'm very sad for you.

Anyways, I extend my congrats to you on finally graduating with your BCM Diploma. But please do not continue to do PG's dirty bidding. You are a man of God, and qualified now, albeit late though. Never mind, it's better late than never. So stand up for TTG, not for the man called PG. He's not grateful at all.; December 3, 2008 at 1:28 PM
Anonymous said...: Aiyoh yoh, you mean PG did not know how to be grateful to a man seen by many as his sidekick. RM1,000 also can't afford ah. What a big disappointment for RY! Our hearts go out to you RY. That man is not worth your dedication. He's infamous for his "use and discard" policy. B4 long, he may discard you too.; December 3, 2008 at 1:34 PM
Anonymous said...: Pastor Ray,

Although we may stand on different sides of the TTG divide, you are still my brother in Christ and on this basic truth, my family and I congratulate you on your graduation.

Be faithful to our Lord and serve Him and Him only! God bless.; December 3, 2008 at 1:41 PM
Anonymous said...: Congratulation Pastor Raymond Yong.

Serve God and be bless.; December 3, 2008 at 2:27 PM
Anonymous said...: Apple of His eye writes

Pas Raymond, Congratulation on your graduation with a Diploma of Theology! I rejoice with you. The Lord who had called you is faithful and the good work He had started in you, He will bring it to completion - when you choose to focus on Him and serve Him alone. I like your quote: "BCM has enabled me to live this quote ... "If we focus we will finish; and, if we focus on the finish, we will finish strong and finally, if we finish strong, others will finish with us" By Yong Hoi Hoong, Raymond; December 3, 2008 at 3:58 PM
Anonymous said...: Cherrio! Pastor Raymond.All the best!; December 3, 2008 at 4:33 PM
Anonymous said...: Congrats Pas Raymond. Continue to serve God faithfully and fear Him and not man. God bless.; December 3, 2008 at 5:07 PM
Anonymous said...: The least PG could do for Pas. RY's graduation was to attend his graduation ceremony last nite. No congratulatoy message also ok. I was there too but didn't see PG nor PG2. They were conspicuously absent. No moral support at all. Maybe both have forgotten their BCM roots now that they are Tan Sri/Puan Sri.

Pastor Raymond, although you took 7years, it's ok. At least you graduated from BCM, unlike another who has no bible school background.; December 3, 2008 at 5:16 PM
Anonymous said...: I hope PG will no longer use RY to run errands for him since he's a qualified pastor, and very soon a Rev. too.; December 3, 2008 at 5:19 PM
Anonymous said...: Was also at the BCM grad. Rev. Isaac Chan from PCC preached a very good and relevant sermon. His take on King Saul - starting well but not finishing well is as if he was talking abt PG. For those of you who did not get to hear his sermon, you should try to get a hold of it...if possible.; December 3, 2008 at 5:21 PM
Anonymous said...: Ha, ha. What a big joke! The lone lady BOD member and her family congratulated a deacon's wife, but forgot (???) about Pas. RY. It's a strange world.; December 3, 2008 at 5:24 PM
Anonymous said...: Too bad PG & PG2 not at BCM graduation ceremony. Otherwise, Pastor Isaac's message on King Saul could have done some good.; December 3, 2008 at 5:28 PM
Anonymous said...: yeah..lady deacon forgot abt her beloved pastors and didn't send any congratulatory message to Ps RY.looks like she works only for PG and PG only will she serve....; December 3, 2008 at 5:49 PM
CALVARY TODAY said...: Our Heartiest Congratulations to

***PASTOR RAYMOND YONG***

For Graduating from the
Bible College of Malaysia with
Diploma of Theology.

We rejoice with you and your family and our prayer for you is that our Great and Mighty God will put His Hand upon your life and your ministry and will "enlarge your territory" for His Glory and Honour.; December 3, 2008 at 5:51 PM
Anonymous said...: BOD very mindful that SP should finish well but sad to say all are in same boat and far from finishing well. I am wondering why they keep saying one thing but doing something opposite.

Pastors know how to preach eloquently from the Word but they choose not to follow their own preachings too.

Saul's ending is a sad and awesome reminder to all that God's anointing and blessings can be taken away when one is disobedient and when one refuses to heed God's warnings.

May we remain faithful and obedient at all times...; December 3, 2008 at 5:52 PM
Anonymous said...: well..at least half of the BOD were at the ceremoney last nite...PT, HJK, SL...so hopefully, the sermon spoke to them and pierced their hearts like a double edged sword; December 3, 2008 at 5:54 PM
Anonymous said...: Hi God's word,

Wah,looks like you were thinking of "money" when you talked about "ceremoney". Er, you think like PG.; December 3, 2008 at 6:15 PM
Anonymous said...: This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.; December 3, 2008 at 6:18 PM
Anonymous said...: Oops...Think like PG..you're rite.my fingers automatically typed money...must be listening to too many PG sermons and got brainwashed a bit; December 3, 2008 at 6:21 PM
Anonymous said...: Copied from Apple of His Eye's comment,

"BCM has enabled me to live this quote ... "If we focus we will finish; and, if we focus on the finish, we will finish strong and finally, if we finish strong, others will finish with us" By Yong Hoi Hoong, Raymond

Pastor Raymond, we are all looking to you to live up to your quote.It is a well chosen quote and very encouraging to us ordinary members of Calvary Church looking for Truth, Transparency and Good Governance now.

TTG members, take heed to the above quote - especially this, "...if we finish strong, others will finish with us."

Let us all run this race by God's Grace and finish strong.; December 3, 2008 at 7:10 PM
Anonymous said...: Petrina said she doesn't know what CBT is, ah? hahaha! Sure good laugh! But she knows what 'flying business class' is! How come, ah? How come someone who is 'in the ministry' and not 'in the world' knows what 'flying business class' is, and wearing 'RM10,000/-Chanel dresses' is but don't know what CBT is, lah? Huh?

Chun Ho Siew....(sure good laugh)!!; December 3, 2008 at 10:18 PM
Anonymous said...: My heartfelt grief for the way PG & PG2 have been using & mistreating Pastor Raymond Yong....

On the day of his graduation, after 7 years of studying, not a word of congratulations from them to him ..... they didn't even turn up to give him moral support! This proves that these two are indeed bad, selfish shepherds, only interested in using the Lord's sheep and the sheep's wool & fat for their own gain, & not loving them as the Lord loves His sheep...!

I am sure other graduates' pastors all turned up in full force to encourage & bless their members & leaders who have taken the pains to study & improve themselves so as to serve the Lord and serve their church better...!

I am sorry Pastor Raymond Yong that you have to go through such abuse from the pastors whom you loved and defended with your life, even to the extent of covering up for them and compromising your own Christian principles in so doing!

Let me congratulate you, Pastor Raymond...well done! syabas! Finish Strong...don't let bad shepherds pull you down with them!; December 4, 2008 at 10:11 AM
Anonymous said...: Two months ago, I shared with a Pastor who came to Malaysia about the problems Calvary Church was going through.

The moment I told him that a freemason designed ccc, he strongly retorted that freemason should not be involved to build God's house of worship. There can be big problems. What shall we do now?; December 14, 2008 at 5:56 PM
Anonymous said...: Today as a family we went to DUMC for worship. Indeed we were glad to meet many Calvarities. I encourage others to visit too. Nothing to lose but everything to gain.; December 14, 2008 at 5:59 PM

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