Many church members and friends are finding out for the very first time, the history of our great church in Kuala Lumpur.
Although the church leadership has on October 22, 2008, officially celebrated the 40th Anniversary of Calvary Church's presence in Damansara Heights, Calvary Today salute all our pioneering Missionaries, Pastors, Church Workers and Church Members for keeping to the call of our Lord Jesus Christ, to see to the birth of our Fellowship of Believers which started in Jalan Sayor, Pudu, Kuala Lumpur in 1961. That congregation of believers was then called Calvary Assembly. That was 47 years ago. Yes, our church was FOUNDED 47 years ago.
(Click on photos to view a larger picture)
WHO'S WHO IN CALVARY CHURCH HISTORY...
FROM THE HUMBLE BEGINNINGS...
Photo on top left corner shows Pas. Fred Abeysekera at the stone laying ceremony of the Church building.
The completed church building in 1968.
Photos of the opening ceremony of Calvary Church in Damansara Heights, Kuala Lumpur in 1968.
We thank the organisers of the 40th Anniversary Dinner for putting together a beautiful souvenir book for those who attended the dinner that night. The above photos are reproduced from the souvenir book.
Last Sunday, after a span of 39 years, we finally got to hear the preaching of one of our pioneering Pastors, Pastor Fred Abeysekera from Singapore. Pastor Fred served in Calvary from 1966 to 1969 as a National Pastor, assisting our Missionary Pastor James Jones.
In his sermon, he requested that we, the church members, pray for him & his wife, Rita's up coming trip to Tibet in November to conduct a seminar on the Pentecost. He also requested for prayer for his health as the weather will be minus 10C then. Pas. Fred is 79 years old today but yet, he still preached like one just starting out in ministry.
This is Pastor Fred Abeysekera and his wife, Rita, today.
Click play to listen to Pastor Fred Abeysekera's sermon on 26 Oct 2008.
Title: Moses... The Decision of Faith
190 comments:
Having attended CC for some 27 years, I had never been kept informed that so many individuals had laboured faithfully to lay the foundations for CC in Damansara Heights.
Frankly speaking, all these 27 years, I've never seen any of these pictures published for Calvarites to see.
All these years, I had been kept in the dark and I wonder why.
Nevertheless, I join all Calvarites in saluting all these pioneers. Whoever you are, you are indeed by "heroes and heroines of faith".
Just a word of encouragement to these pioneers. Your labour is never in vain. Our Lord will surely reward you, even if SP and the CC leadership had, intentionally or unintentionally, forgotten to acknowledge your contributions all these years.
I'm indeed very proud of you all and today, I stand to salute you.
Yes, let's applaud and salute our fellow labourers in the Lord.
We're indeed very proud of all of you for your contributions, small and big.
You will forever be remembered. Your names will be engraved (figuratively as SP will not do it literally) in the annals of CC.
Praise the Lord!
Dear uncles and aunties,
I'm also very proud of all of you.
Thank you Lord for their lives and sacrifices so that our young (and also not very young) will know the REAL history of CC, which was rewritten by "only God knows who".
Carry on the good work! May the Lord bless you all.
To all the pioneers of CC, this song by Ray Boltz is specially dedicated to all of you. God bless.
Thank You
I dreamed I went to heaven
And you were there with me
We walked upon the streets of gold
Beside the crystal sea
We heard the angels singing
Then someone called your name
You turned and saw this young man
And he was smiling as he came
And he said, Friend
You may not know me now
And then he said, But wait
You used to teach my Sunday School
When I was only eight
And every week you would say a prayer
Before the class would start
And one day when you said that prayer
I asked Jesus in my heart
CHORUS:
Thank you for giving to the Lord
I am a life that was changed
Thank you for giving to the Lord
I am so glad you gave
Then another man stood before you
And said remember the time
A missionary came to your church
And his pictures made you cry
You didn't have much money
But you gave it anyway
Jesus took the gift you gave
And that's why I am here today
CHORUS
One by one they came
Far as the eye could see
Each life somehow touched
By your generosity
Little things that you had done
Sacrifices made
Unnoticed on the earth
In heaven now proclaimed
And I know up in heaven
You're not supposed to cry
But I am almost sure
There were tears in your eyes
As Jesus took your hand
And you stood before the Lord
He said, My child look around you
Great is your reward
CHORUS (repeat)
I am so glad you gave
Dear God,
I pray for Pas. Fred Abeysekera for his faithfulness to you all these years. Even now, as he is already at 79 years old, but still going strong in his passion for your Word to be preached all over the world.
I pray for Pas. Fred and Sis. Rita, as they prepare to go to Tibet to minister your Word to the people there, may you grant them safe journey, good health and most of all they will be able to stand the cold weather. May he come back to us again to give testimony of your great work up in Tibet.
In Jesus name, Amen.
Hello
"PUI FOOK"--really "PUI FOOK"
Good work Calvarytoday. God is faithful and marvellous, to you, to me, to him, to her, ...and young people, do start learning history now and learn to enjoy sejarah yah.. you will score "A" for exam..when you start learning history correctly from calvarytoday..haha
I understand there were 70 pioneer Calvarites from Jln Sayor where Calvary started 47 years ago.
They were each given Chartered membership. Who are they?
I thought I could see their names in the souvenir magazine but was disappointed it was not there.
Can someone who has the record please list down their names so that we can recognise them in CalvaryToday.
We want to appreciate and salute them.
hello
two observation :
1. the 3 assistant pastors no longer with calvary church, why? anyone can share?
2. the picture on the cover 40th, calvarytoday, i am sure it is 47th to be correct, the picture that showed 40th is abit misleading!
You can call me sour grapes but I was disappointed when I saw the souvenir book listing down the list of pastors and deacons past and present. I had wanted to my name there too.
I worked in Calvary Church as a full time ministerial staff for almost 20 years. Why are all of our names not there too. Did we not also contribute to the early ministry of Calvary Church and Pas. PG?
hello observer-today,
I believe CT mentioned that these photos, they take from that book given out by the church at the 40th anniversary dinner last wednesday. Not designed by CT lah.
Dear "Sour grape ex-staff",
Be encouraged that your labour is never in vain. Our Good Lord wll surely reward those who serve Him faithfully.
Men may not recognise us but the Lord sure does. And that's what really counts when we eventually meet Him face to face!!!
Rejoice in the Lord!
In the 40th Anniversary Book, a message from our Prime Minister was published. In there, he mentioned that Calvary Church was founded 40 years ago in 1968. You know what this means? It means that SP and our church leaders have lied to the PM about our actual date of founding. Imagine the embarrassment of the PM when he finds out that he has been lied to by a Tan Sri (SP). I'm thinking of writing to the PM. God, what has become of our SP that he has turned into such a blatant liar?
Thank you calvarytoday for posting the cd recording of the 1st service's sermon preached by missionary pastor on 26th oct,08 (just recently only), I had listened to the sermon..but I was attending 2nd service then. Here is the note:
1. when you die, who will bury you? Your pastor is the one who bury you..
2. be faithful to God, be faithful to your church..
3. cook curry for your pastor..
4. look back--look back..
5. give your money to your church, you and your family will be blessed..
6. catch the tail of the snake..
7. God called me to a place, where there are lots of snakes, pray for us..
8. pastors are different from you, you are not the same, because they are special..
( the above were not at all mentioned in 1st service)
some similar/ differnt points
1. he served God by faith, he was called to kampung and jungle
2. he is very humble, if he were to go Oral Robert Seminary, he wont be the same today, but he rather obeyed God's calling, so to speak..
3. he said in Singapore, the pastors in the church are very well paid..
4. he as Evangelist, no paid..
5. he said, mother in law.., they cook kathmandu curry, but never mentioned cook curry for your pastors..and more
Anyway, my point is, according to some of my friends, dont go for 2nd service, 'kena tembak', go for 1st service, seemed to be more sincere and godly...dear fellow worshipper, lets go for a change, we shall all go 1st service..shall we?
Plase do click to listen to the sermon posted here.. you check out the difference yourself..and digest for yourself..
I am trying to be fussy..but far too much of this happening in the 2nd service but not first..you know the reasons right..it was taped for sales for the 1st service but not 2nd..
soory, missed out--* I am NOT trying to be fussy*
Hello SM
Go ahead and write to PM..good idea..
In the commemorative book published in 2002 to celebrate his 30 year ministry in Calvary Church, on the last two pages is the "History of Calvary Church (AOG) Kuala Lumpur" and it starts from 1968.
In the commemorative book given out during the recent Anniversary of Calvary Church's presence in Damansara Heights, the church history is backtracked to the good old days in Jalan Sayor prior to even 1961.
SP, at least you have the audacity to owe up (maybe after much "pressure" from the TT Group and God's pricking of your conscience) that you indeed made a mistake (or was it deliberate) when you left out "in the beginning" section in the commemorative book published in 2002 to celebrate your 30-year ministry in Calvary Church.
Once again, it shows your tendencies for half-truths. Please, for God's sake, stop all these half-truths as it is definitely NOT RIGHT to do so (I suppose it's also a sin too - Pastor Fred Abeysekera, your input if you're reading this blog).
Repent SP, and speak the truth, nothing but the truth, for our God is a God of Truth. He will not be mocked, even by His servant, one whom many call a man of God, or is he?
SP, as one of your ex-staff, I fully support "No More Half Truths" appealing to you to repent and stop telling half-truths.
Pastor, while working with you, I gave you the benefit of the doubt when I suspected you did tell me half truths. I've kept these to myself all these years, but now I can see your true colours.
I feel very hurt that I have a pastor (and also my former boss) who was and still is capable of telling half truths.
At times I struggle to even look at you in the eyes and call you my pastor.
O God, please forgive me for even harbouring such thoughts. I plead the blood of Jesus to cover me so that I can forgive SP for telling half truths, to me and to the entire CC congregation.
At the same time, my prayer O Lord is that SP will truly be a good example for others as he's our shepherd whom You have placed over us.
In Jesus' name. Amen
O Lord, I bring before You every Calvarite, including my fellow ex-staff, who have been hurt by SP all these years.
I pray you will heal us of all our hurts and help us to forgive SP for inflicting these hurts.
I pray Your Holy Spirit will so convict SP, and set him free from the spirit of deception and half truths.
O Lord I pray Your blood will cover him, as You still have a purpose for his life, as You also have for each of our lives too.
May the name of Jesus Christ be exalted in and through our lives. Amen.
May I encourage all the ex-staff who have been hurt by SP? Keep forgiving him. Everytime you remember the injustice, his arrogance & lying, forgive him again, and again, until the hardness in your hearts is gone. God will certainly not let him go unpunished if he refuses to repent...his Tan Sri title will not get him into heaven, mind you! It's ony by the Blood of Christ that anyone can escape hellfire! I am mindful of this fact & I keep teaching my children to forgive him, too!
"If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God."
Hebrews 10:26-27 (NIV)
To SM and Angelin:
No point writing to the PM. As far as I know, all these messages for souvenir books are actually drafted by the relevant bodies (in this eg. CC) and forwarded to the PM's Department for endorsement and amendments (if any). Do you think the PM really knows or cares whether CC is 40 or 47? I seriously doubt so.
My unhappiness, and I think our displeasure should be why the church has drafted the message as CC is 40 years and not 47 years?
God bless.
Referring to 1 and 2 service sermon,I am suggesting a "walk-out" during the sermon if the pastor/s are trying to "hit" the congregration! We must rebuke in silent and in group to show the consciences of concerned calvarites.
Thanks for CT that whether it is 40 or 47 years the message is very clear. Congrats- a happy point.
The sad point is that our concerned calvarites are doing alot of wonderful things but the main issue is yet to resolved- our SP and BOD! How and when? It must be known that the longer it drags; it will make the scenario looks very urgly!
May be Lord interven and make the impossible to be possible soon! Amen
Psalm 32
Blessed is he whose transgressions are forgiven
whose sins are covered
Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord does not count against him and in whose spirit is no deceit
When I kept silent, my bones wasted away through my groaning all day long
For day and night your hand was heavy upon me, my strength was sapped as in the heat of summer
Then I acknowledged my sin to You and did not cover up my iniquity
I said, "I will confess my transgressions to the Lord"-and you forgave the guilt of my sin
Therefore, let everyone who is godly pray to You while You may be found
Surely when the mighty waters rise, they will not reach him
You are my hiding place, you will protect me from troble and surround me with songs of deliverance
I will instruct you and teach you in the way you should go
I will counsel you andwatch over you
Do not be like the horse or the mule which have no understanding but must be controlled by bit and bridle or they will not come to you
Many are the woes of the wicked but the Lord's unfailing love surrounds the man who trusts in Him
Rejoice in the Lord and be glad
you righteous, sing, all you who are upright in heart
To happy and sad,
Happy because after so many years of being duped, the Lord has opened our eyes to the truth and our "PIONEERS" are given due recognition.
Happy because we are finally going to see change (for the better) in the church administration. Church members and staff are being treated a little nicer nowadays. Most Pastors not so ACTSY. I saw SAP stood up and shook a new comer's hand. Last sunday, SP took Rev Fred to stand at exit door to shake people's hand. Normally, guest speakers are quickly "hidden" from the public.
Sad because SP & BOD acting very slowly or pretending nothing is happening. It's ok my friend, the longer they stall...the more people write their historical past, the more the whole world will read. This is what chinese say, "paper cannot wrap fire". Sure get burn. The slower they take, the more we get to know their past. Like the prayer that someone prayed for SP & daughter. Really bad history.
He went round the world to get international recognition, maybe this is what God wants. The international people now to read his REAL story, from his own people. If problem solved, this blog must stop and we won't get some more news. Think about that.
TEHNC says
Pastor Pamela Lee,
Thank you dear CHILD for your faithful service and contribution in recognizing the Pioneers officially in the anniversary book. Together with the other pastoral staff, your oversight (which is no small feat) on the publication will continue the road to reconciliation, restoration and FULL restitution of wrongs, sins, transgressions committed so that God can be Fully Glorified and that CC will once again be the living FOUNTAINHEAD.
You will continue your calling to be a bridge for your earthly father, restore his sight so that he will come back to the fold. Be rest assured you and your children will be blessed by the Lord as you endeavour in this calling. This is the actual legacy that are left by the pioneers (who are supposedly the elders of the church for Checks and Balances in case the BOD are derelict in their divine responsibilities) especially the grandfather and uncles of your children. This is the message that the Lord has impressed on me to share with you.
TEHNC,
Pastor is ascribed to Pamela only, as I believed she was called. The Lord has a special purpose for her. Please layoff from further comments as I was addressing to her only!!!!. Thank you
To "Anonymous",
If your message is meant only for Pam, I suggest you write to her personally instead of posting your comments as this is a public blog.
In this way, nobody can comment and therefore no one gets hurt or slighted.
Hope you do understand.
Hello well meaning TEHNC,
You made two big mistake logging your personal word to Pastor Pamela Lee.
1st nobody in church recognise her as pastor. Ppl expected it to happen and we all know she is drawing pastor's salary, but wrong place to INTRODUCE her into the pastorate.
2nd she herself don't recognise herself as PAMELA LEE. In the very book you so praise her for doing a good job for acknowledges herself as PAM GUNERATNAM.
Your 2nd entry makes things even worst. "Ascribed" is used by you for her. I only know to use this word in the song "Ascribe greatness to the Lord our God, His work is perfect and all His ways are just."
For her sake, you had better delete your entry yourself before more ppl find fault with your 'ascribed to Pamela only" in this place, dedicated to pioneers of Calvary Church.
Calvarites, beware..
1. Modern days pastors have a tendency to physche the congregation to think that they are the only anointed ones and that congregation are followers of Pastors and the local church.
2. Unknowingly, congregation are made to think they are not anointed. So, they look to Pastors as if they are "God".
3. Very sad that most Christians have not lived up to what Christ intended them to be. Of course, most Pastors like it this way so that they have followers and be paid as professionals.
4. Is ministry a profession?
5. Are we followers of Jesus or Pastors?
6. Christians must differentiate between psychology from man and discernment from God.
7. So, we continually ask God to open our eyes to see, our mind to think, our heart to feel and our spirit to discern.
God bless.
One more thing I forgot. You shd redirect your personal msg becoz, SP & family, BOD, Calvary pastors and staff, don't read this blog. You are only addressing ppl who "May Not" like them or are "Not Bothered" about them. So don't expect readers here to clap and give them standing ovation. Certainly no one is going to agree with you here.
To all others, yeah, lay off the other young lady.
What pastor ? Please, both Pam, Jim , none of them qualified to be our pastors, they cannot even speak for truth thus far...if they become our pastors; i think the worshipper will run... you think this is "dynasty" series meh?
better not to pormote them here.. they better go and take time to a earn it...instead of easy way...(sigh)
Agree?
Excuse me guys, I believe Pam did her Masters in Counselling and Jim did his degree in Media or something like that. I believe they have not been to a bible college to be theological trained. So can a person who is not theologically trained be a pastor?
Can anybody enlighten me on this matter?
By the way, TEHNC how come you are calling Pam, Pastor Pam Lee? Is she a pastor? Her name is not on the list of pastors in the 40th Anniversary Book. I am getting very confused??????
Dear BOD
Pastor's title loosely used...Actually, what's Pam's and Jim's title? Aren't they Directors for CLM and CCM?
Is it true? Buy a CD, money goes to CCM. CCM account NOT part of the church's account. Sign up a counselling course, money goes to CLM. CLM account also NOT part of the church.
BOD, pl set up a commission of investigation and report to members during AGM. Please find out on abuse and excess.
Philip Tan is the right deacon..Human Resource forms a committee to look into... SP's family pay more than 1million..Pam now heads AIM, SCG, Home Schooling, education resource, youth, counselling, etc..Jim heads communication, administration,CCC..
Whole family controls literally everything..BOD and Ass. Pastors - where are they?
Grief ex-staff
Thanks calvarytoday for this blog. When I was working in the church office, many times I was bullied and condemned and I can't speak out otherwise I will be blacklisted and my life will be made more miserable working there. I don't see Christ in them but only the devil in them. SPW encouraged her blue eye boy or blue eye girl to carry tales to her and in turn she will carry all tales to SP. One Sunday, when she was preaching, she made this remark "the whole trouble is that we always listen to gossip without knowing the real situation". I feel like standing up and tell her off, "Yes you are right". Stop encouraging the staff to sin by carrying tales to you and make them feel like they are very loyal to you. You are not doing them any better but making them worst like you.
Yes, Philip..do check also all the love offering collected by SP from overseas, why never see any reporting?
marginalised calvarite...not only sale of cds goes straight to extended ministries account, but if u go to the calvary website,you can even make donations to the communications ministry online. wonder why the communications ministry needs donations when it is revenue generating???
Also, faith promise still goes to CCM and CLM when their accumulated funds are more than 1 million or close to 1 million. Philip can help.
guess what..i went to check the website again, the donations part is now gone..suprise suprise. last time i checked was a few months ago, so i guess they decided to do away with it..good move on their part.
How about the recent EGM expenses? How much we pay accountant, lawyer and Guynes..What a joke? Flying someone from half way from the globe to chair a meeting..Shame on all calvarites. Where are the accountants, the lawyers and leaders within the church? SP just don't trust any of you. Never mind, just pay someone to silence you..after all not SP's money.
Some one take note out there! Remember, some lady exposed that Calvary Book shop is registered in SAP's personal name as sole proprietor. Keep tab on this. She will conveniently keep all the profit for herself. Aiyo, to think about it.
SP personal ministry = CIM
SPW or SAP personal business = Calvary Book shop
SP son own domain = Communications or Tape ministry.
SP daughter own = CLM
This family really CONQUER ALL. Don't know what to say anymore. TTG what is your next action plan. Tak boleh kasi chance leh.
dear aiyoyo..of coz the g family conquer all...CC belongs to them mar..without them, CC is nothing..without them, CC wudn't hv grown to wat it is now..we owe our lives to them, watever happens..the sheep wil die first,never the g family.the sheep are meant to feed the shepherd and his family mar..we are 2nd class citizens only lar,aiyoyo...guess we gotta accept the fact if we want to keep being ruled by the g family
Rev Fred said as evangelist he had no salary for 39 years. He survived by God's grace. He has faith
SP with 1.9 M transferred to CIM still waiting for God's confirmation to go out as evangelist. He wanted to be evangelist all these years but...Why?..let's pray
CC very comfortable..Jungle not nice...many snakes too.
Eh! I got a family to take care.
another reason why sp might not want to retire to become an evangelist yet is coz if he does, his family will no longer be able to live a protected and comfy life as directors/administrators/pastors in CC. Without sp as the big kahuna sitting on CC's throne, u think his wife/son/daughter/son-in-law will get to keep their high leveled positions just say another pastor from somewhere else steps in to become senior pastor of CC? I think not as the bulk of them aren't qualified to hold the positions they're holding. chris lee doesn't hv a pastor's heart and only wants profesionalism.pam g believes more in new age physchology teachings rather than deliverance and inner healing.and jim g, hmm..he is supposed to hv a masters in communications is it? how come our video presentations and tapings of our easter/christmas shows always seem to be such a bad quality..never improve at all. dunno why he even wants to rent those expensive equipment to shoot the shows when the video that comes out really sucks.sorry,tat's the truth.
Pamela Lee, pastor?
She doesn’t know the meaning of what it means to be a pastor, leh! Tell her to go BCM for theological training first before she qualifies to be pastor.
Otherwise she gonna teach NEW AGE philosophy and her psychology mumbo-jumbo to all the little lambs and make mincemeat out of them! The oldies will remember a few times she brought in her Psychology professor from California, who was obviously a NEW AGER, to give a seminar to Calvarites on Soul Care! Imagine how we were shocked out of our booties when this professor said, “Any religion will do, to help people in their spiritual journey in life”! And what’s worse, Not a single apology from the Guneratnams for this heretical teaching from the pulpit!Our little lambs are in dangerous hands under ‘pastor’ Pam Lee a.k.a Pam Guneratnam!
Dear grief ex-staff,
Meet me, I am doubled crossed ex-staff. I know exactly what you talking about. When I was working in church, there was this staff in SAP's office always call me to ask me how my work is. I thot she was concern for me since I was new so I tell her all my problems. Then I begin to notice SAP's attitude to me change. I cannot tolerate the way church workers act. No co-operation, no helping one another, so rigid. This cannot touch, that does not belong to your dept. Here must ask first, that is not under your dept. so much rules and red-tape, so I resigned. Guess what? Immediately, no more calls from this person until today, so many years after. So she has been calling me to get my work attitude to report to SAP. No church staff can be trusted - all double H S.
Sorry...must clarify H S is not Holy Spirit. It's the opposite that slide on the ground.
You mean double-headed snake?
I understand your anger & indignation! It IS hard to work in such an environment.
i agree with double crossed ex staff...some of the staff quite the hypocrites.behind sp,they wil oso say bad things abt him & his family but in front of sp, they pretend to be such loyal and faithful staff.careful of these ppl...some of them wil even tell u one thing and do another later,so don't trust them.be careful with wat u say to them as some of them may agree with u but once yr back is turned, they go running to sp & sap to report to them and get some brownie points...this kind of staff, better to don't hv then hv i tell u...
Been reading this blog for quite a while, and really I've a few of questions.
1. Does anyone know the use of a comment box? It is to comment ON the post. It is real funny how people make this their own forum. Do create a forum to post your emotions and blabber that are totally unrelated to the post. If not, please refrain from misusing the comment box.
2. Well, since everyone is quoting scripture to make their comments more 'Christianized', Ephesians 4:26-In your anger do not sin. Do not let the sun go down while you are still angry.
Slander, gossip, and definitely bringing forth wrongdoings that people have done in their lives which you have absolutely NO IDEA whether they have asked for forgiveness are not, IS sin.
(Probably I'll get replies like "it is not gossip if it's true". A lot like a spoiled 13-year old child)
3. Didn't the church show it's appreciation by recognizing the years before 1968 when we were in Jalan Sayor? It showed its previous pastors, invited church pioneers, former pastors and etc.
Wasn't the 40 years anniversary a day to remind ourselves of the time we stood independently as a congregation to build our independent building?
And a question I really need clarification on, we were OFFICIALLY known as Calvary Church in 1968 right? So that leaves us with 40 years?...
Because from the looks of certain comments, if today we celebrated 47 years, people might have turned around and said "Hey, we were officially known as CC 40 years ago, so it should be 40 years!", and then now, the same thing would occur again, just in different contexts.
4. What are your attitudes when coming to this blog? "Let's just condemn SP over every single thing." When he invited the pioneers, people complain about the 70 people from Jalan Sayor who moved to DH. If he didn't invite the pioneers and wrote about the 70 people, people will complain. Even about the services, about how Rev. Fred spoke, there are people complaining. My goodness. Can I urge you, if you are coming to CalvaryToday to just seek an avenue for complains, please refrain from doing so. If not, I can come here and complain how 'the aircond was too cold last week. The pastors don't care about us.' 'The musicians weren't good enough, the worship leaders don't know how to manage their team.' I don't have to go on.
5. Can I urge readers and bloggers to stay focused on Christ. I need to be reminded of this constantly as I have to really learn to die to self. But, really, die to self, and let God grow. Please don't justify the actions by writing in prayers or quoting scriptures if really the heart seeks for revenge and for attack. Leave room for SP to change and act, rather than complaining why isn't he changing faster, or why isn't he improving faster and better. People are unique and are different. Give him space and amidst all the anger, pray for him and for God's will to be done.
Surrender your petitions to God and do the rest. As a young teenager, I've learnt the difficulty of surrendering. Surrendering is not saying I Will Surrender to God and coming onto this blog to rant about it. Surrendering to God is complete surrender. It's the ultimate point of letting God do His will. And I believe really, that unless we do that, we will NEVER see changes.
I hope that appropriate responses will be given, and especially that I would not be seen as a 'blind church member' because really, if I were blind, I wouldn't bother a single bit of any of these issues.
Above all, forgive me if I offended you. To me, really, certain people have really taken it too far. It's about time this stops.
I meant let God do the rest in my third last paragraph.
Dear Keane,
In any blog, regardless of whether it's Calvary Today or Malaysia Today, everyone is free to comment, some on the subject, some along the subject, some outside the subject, and yet many more NOT on the subject but just to vent their frustrations.
Well, in Calvary Today, it's also therapeutic (did I get spelling right? - never mind). Many people, including ex-staff and also non-Calvarites, use this blog to let go and mind you, it helps them to feel better in their souls.
I agree with you that some of the comments here are slightly off tangent, but at the end of the day, they still "bounce back" to the person called SP who has created a dynasty in CC, not only involving his own family members but those who think they are part of his family (I mean the apple-polishers, tale-carriers, "political secretaries", etc).
Keane, the underlying message is crystal clear - SP is no longer fit to be our shepherd. We need to stop the rot, or else we will rot in CC.
God will not be mocked!
keane,
Let people comment to vent out their frustrations. It's not only therapeutic, it's exposing the 'double-life' that SP & SAP have been living all these years. If you are them, and have been hurt and lied to by your shepherds for so many years, you, too, would want some space to bare your soul, wouldn't you? Even when you go to see psychiatrists or psychologists, they'd give you the time and the space to "get it off your chest," but then the set-back is you'll be CHARGED for it!
So, Keane, please be more understanding and know that Calvarites have been hurt by the words, the actions and the behaviour of SP and his wife for many years, and this is just a natural response! It's not that we are not giving them the time to change....they have had 36 years to change! Please see it more like, "SP and SAP are just reaping what they have sown"! They have sown deceit, lies, corruption, covetuousness, pride and arrogance, stealing, so this is just a natural 'reaping' for them! Bad seed will sprout bad 'fruit,' so this is actually biblical!
Just to add on to comments by "Logically Speaking".
If those who have been hurt go for counselling in CLM, they may end up being counselled by Pastor (is she or is she NOT?) Pam G or one of her students.
Obviously, they won't pour out so freely as they would on this blog. Put simply, Calvary Today is still a better option.
So we are showing him the bad fruits of his actions. We are being God's hands and feet by talking bad about other people, being really unChristian to people who have sown sinfully.
I know how much Calvarites have been through, and although I really cannot understand and fathom the pain, I respect you for going through all that.
Yet, telling me it's being therapeutic and telling me to see it in a different light is just all for a cause of justification.
Really, the Bible says a whole lot more about handling anger, revenge and how you actually behave as a Christian. I really think we should highlight that parts in the Bible rather than just the ones that can easily be misinterpreted to justify our actions.
And, shouldn't God be the ultimate source of soul reliefs? Isn't the yoke He gives us light? He carries our burdens and pains, no?
Also, being angry and it 'being a natural thing' is NOT a justification to sin. Really. Isn't that what we were taught growing up? I don't have to elaborate further.
Commenting on Pam Lee,spoilt and bad-tempered princess of the Gunerotnam Dynasty, no-theological training therefore unqualified to be pastor....actually also Pam Guneratnam the USA-trained psychologist who does not think that there is anything wrong with New Age....
Reliable sources (at least two of the staff) have told me that this 'pastor' does not even know how to share devotions in the staff meetings! So how is she going to teach the 'young uns' the Word of truth?
The reason why her dear father and mother give her this chance to be pastor was because she cried during one of the staff meetings and complained, through her crocodile tears, that "I don't have a ministry...!" Therefore dear, all-powerful daddy had to break all the rules and appoint his darling, unqualified daughter PASTOR!
I remember there were a number of very qualified church staff who were not given the chance to be 'pastor' in Calvary Church FOR YEARS! Most of them eventually left the church, and other churches took them in and they became pastors immediately!
God is not mocked!
Yes, Calvary Today is still a better option to pour out our hurts.
As a former staff, I don't think I'll be comfortable talking to Pam about my hurts as I know too much about her to trust her with my hurts.
By the way, I don't think she qualifies to be a pastor. To me, it's a serious calling and unless she's called, better stay on as a counsellor.
By the way, during staff morning devotions when she shared devotions, she was "kelam-kabut", at times even not very certain of her faith and posing more questions to answers. I don't think these are the traits of a genuine pastor, not a pseudo one, I mean.
And a reminder to SP, being a pastor is one of the five-fold ministry and personally, it's the toughest. SP, you don't call someone to be a pastor just because you think so.
The calling is by God, the Eternal One. Don't dilute the title "Pastor" - it's God-ordained not men-ordained.
Keane,
Sorry to burst your bubble, but we ARE actually God's hands and feet, in a way...remember that God uses His people to act...if you read the Bible CAREFULLY, you will find that there are many times when God uses people to punish others for their sins, e.g. When the children of Israel conquered Canaan, we are told in Exodus that "the sin of the Amorites have reached its fullness."
Another example is, when Israel kept on sinning inspite of many warnings from the prophets, God used the Assyrians, "the rod of His anger," to punish them - the Kingdom of Israel, the northern Kingdom, was destroyed completely, and they were scattered.
Similarly, the southern Kingdom, Judah, was destroyed by the Babylonians and they went into captivity for 70 years.
God will not tolerate sin even in the lives of His people and sin will not go unpunished.
Yes, I concur with "Logically Speaking",
God uses people, even ordinary ones, to accomplish His plans. And His plans are not just about preaching His Word, but also "carrying out His actions" to correct the wicked.
We should not expect God to "pong" on on our heads if we do wrong. You mom or dad disciplines you so that you learn to do the right things in God's sight.
I thank God that He still uses men and women to carry out His remedial actions, otherwise many of us will already been wiped out, literally!
God delights in using the insignificant things in this world to confound the wise of this world. The world has despised and called many of God's servants "foolish." God takes His weak people and uses them to demonstrate His power.
So by cultivating anger and nurturing the notion to continual bad-mouthing IS God's way of punishing SP.
In no way am I saying that if SP is wrong, he should go off unpunished. And if he is really wrong, PLEASE, GOD, PUNISH HIM!
But wouldn't it be fair if we let God do it? We are so driven by emotions that even when we want to be used by God, we can be so easily let astray with our emotions. I feel that if we check and balance our emotions out with our objectives, and place them with God, then only will we be heading towards the right path.
I'm not saying everyone on this blog is not doing so, in fact, I'm quite blessed by some people in the way they present their petitions towards God. But bear in mind that there are some who seem to have their emotions taking the place of their rationale. And that leads to sin.
"Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you." Matthew 5:44
"Do not take revenge on someone who wrongs you." Matthew 5:39
"If you do not forgive others, then the Father will not forgive the wrongs you have done." Matthew 6:15
That's just from the Sermon on the Mount.
Keane,
You are right, and very scriptural, in theory.
In practise, however, it takes a lot of 'dying-to-self,' which most Christians have not learnt yet! Come on, just take a look at SP and SAP who are supposedly God's shepherds for 42 years (i.e. counting their early days in Klang) - they preached against telling lies, stealing, pride, covetuousness.....for years! BUT LOOK AT THEIR LIVES!
They are such a bad EXAMPLE to their flock! So how can you blame us poor, simple folks for not being able to die-to-self?
to: Keane
"the smart, intelligent, tech-savvy, godly"... (opposite meaning)stop crapping and bragging..
Jangan buat 'kacau-kucir' di blog ini. Tak suka kamu.
All bloggers and readers, this blog belongs to calvarytoday, if you cannot carry-on reading whatever that is commented in this comment column, please LOG-OUT, no one ask you to log in. This blog is meant for all concerned calvarites who wish to express their grievances and suggestions and ideas, if you are not one of the them, LOG OUT please! Dont tell calvarytoday what to do, we, in calvary church had been scolded week after week, day after day, seminar after seminar, camp after camp..that we should fear God, but can you tell me, our leadership, Especially SP and family, do you think they fear God?
Before any of you think that i am the administrator of this blog, forget it, i am none at all, i am supporter of concerned calvarites, dont blame the administrator, if you want, i dare you blame/curse me...
i am truly very sick of those who pretend to be very spiritual over here, all rubbish.. if you so spiritual, dont read any blogs, it is worldly and sinful, so to speak!
go read your bible, sleep with your bible, go lock yourself inside the house and your room to keep praying lor! why waste time and energy to blog and comment?
if you are very clever, start your own blog..name it calvary anti-today!
Double Crossed Ex-Staff
Thanks for sharing with me the same predicament. You have not experienced the worst I have - office phoned locked so I cannot use even for office matters, cannot use the pastor's computer near his desk (not at his desk) even I am suppose to help him to type all his notes. There are so many restrictions. Even taking 1 day leave have to write "story" and once approved, doesn't mean that I can go on leave comfortably. At the end of it", I must add "I can be contacted whenever and wherever ...." that means once you are needed, you have to come back, no matter where ... So I always pity one AP who always have to come back even though it is his off day.
Hi everyone,
Let's refocus on our sibject matter and not be distracted by a never-ending debate on "let God be God", "let God do it" and what have you.
Let's move on, and please Keane, whoever you are, let's focus on the subject and no more "preaching" please. Let's leave it to our pastors, I mean, the real ones.
Hi Keane, roaring state of me, bros & sis
I know how Keane, roaring state of me feel. Like I've mentioned before, everyone is right and everyone is wrong at the same time, it depends on which side you look at it. So, try not to get ourselves all stress up, ok?
Keane, if you can't take the comments in this blog and feel that the comments are very "unchristian like", I suggest you blog somewhere else. I'm of the opinion that you can give your comments but when you start to 'shoot' someone, be prepared for the rounds of ammunitions coming your way.
Roaring state of me, I know you're mad that some people tend to portray that they're holier than thou when they start to quote scriptures. I do feel that way. My opinion is that if these people uses the Lord's name in vain, let God deals with them when the time comes. Well, may I ask that you be graceful and forgiving to Keane? You may not agree with what he said, but take him as your bro in Christ, ok?
I do agree with dr kk when he said:
"In any blog, regardless of whether it's Calvary Today or Malaysia Today, everyone is free to comment, some on the subject, some along the subject, some outside the subject, and yet many more NOT on the subject but just to vent their frustrations."
The choice is ours, to login or to logout (stay out) of calvarytoday.
God bless.
Well said everyone.
Now, either we log ON or we log OUT. There's no other way.
The choice is ours. If we log on, let's focus on subject matter.
Keane,
Please forgive us if we had been too hard on you. We are all a little uptight with the SP saga and are anxious that it be resolved soon. This is why some of us do get suspicious when people like you write in to reproach us for our complaints & sounding so 'holy,'telling us how to behave like good Christians. If you are a young person, it's like telling your grandmother how to suck eggs! hahaha! And also, For all we know, you could be a SP supporter, or a BOD or even one of the Gunerotnams, or APs?!! :)
But I take you at face value...you are just troubled by what is happening and is suggesting to your elders how to be more Christ-like.
I have a suggestion - You should, rather, tell this (sermon on the mount) to SP, SAP & BOD. As leaders of the church, THEY should clean up their act FIRST! But I don't think you have the guts to walk into their lair & talk to them! :)
OK I got a bit of news about how our guest speaker Pas. Fred Abeysekera and wife were treated during this trip here.
1stly, they were invited to speak last sunday by one of our APs and not SP.
2ndly, SP & SAP too busy with internationally acclaimed pianist and his wife to take notice of our poor kampong and now promoted to jungle evangelist. One AP was assigned to "entertain" them.
See up to now, SP & SAP only have "dove eyes" for the high flying, big name "Rick Warren" church people. They have no time for people who "hurt their feet because travel here by bus" at pushing 80 yr old, preacher & wife.
Someone mentioned saw SP & Pas. Fred at front door shaking hands with members. Good show. When will they change?
Someone who can contact Pas. Fred, do tell him - Never mind, his sermon is posted here so people all over the world can listen to his sermon. God is faithful to those who are faithful to HIM.
Very personal attacks really. No one has truly answered all of my questions. How can anyone talk about truth and can't leave any room for check and balance?
I assure you that I am not SP or SAP or the BOD, or any of the Guneratnams. But then again, you can say that I'm lying. So basically, there's no point to raise any arguments here.
To roaring state of me,
And of course you tak suka saya. Who likes to be questioned? Why do I waste my time? I can easily ask you why do you waste your time commenting on my comments? You can easily lock yourself in your room and scream my name out in anger. You simply want to voice out your beliefs and your roaring state I suppose. Likewise, why can't I do the same?
TTG, I respect you, and I'll continue to pray that God will use you, adults, to achieve His purpose and will for Calvary Church, no matter what His will is.
Your response clearly shows that no one can question comments or this blog. Thank you.
Yeah, hope some of Pastor Fred's humility rub onto SP, so in due time, he may consider going jungle-trekking and mountain-climbing to preach the Gospel.
I understand SP works out in a upmarket gym, so jungle-trekking and mountain-climbing should be kacang putih to him, even when he's pushing 80.
Pastor RY should take him along for mountain-climbing.
Maybe SP should tag along with Pastor Fred when he goes to Tibet. It will be a good start for him.
to : Keane
i am not like you, i enjoyed reading this blog and enjoyed posting my comments, one minute, you so spiritual, next minutes you so....(teruk)
You dont seemed to accept any comments here, you need answer, read all the posts--( POSTS), all the updates; you dont know the issues--read all the posts--(POSTS).
You want answers, many answers from the posts and comments, why still asking for answers? rubbish again..no thanks.
You very spiritual, we had a post on 'say a little prayer', how come i didnt see your prayer???
Let me borrow from fan of calvarytoday again:
CT friendly--do log on
CT unfriendly--log on at your own risk.
CT's hatred-- do log out!
I am speaking on behalf of TTG but on my personal basis.
This blog was started to disseminate information to concerned members who wanted to be in the know as to what TTG is doing in their pursuit for Truth, Transparency and Good Church Governance. Somewhere along the line, members and ex-staff have found this a place to "record and speak out" on things that they have bottled up for so long.
Then slowly but surely, others in the same boat also found that they too have similar experiences to share and concur with. Then they don;t feel so bad, becoz they are no alone in feeling hurt and disappointed. Then they begin to not feel so "self-condeming" and "sinful" for harbouring all these ill thots and replaying it over and over in the wee hours at night.
Keane, I am goin to pray now, "Break the teeth in their mouths O god; tear out , O Lord, the fangs of the lions! Let them vanish like water that flows away; when they draw the bow, let their arrors be blunted. Like a slug melting away as it moves along, like a stillborn child, may they not see the sun." It sounds bad right? Go read the full Psalm 58. In fact, the few Psalms preceeding this and after this carry a similar tone. These are called "Imprecatory Psalms".
God knows that christians do feel hurt and have anger. Our compassionate God allows for "VENTING OUT" sometimes. Since, they cannot release out side, they have no one to go to tell becoz they trust no one, let they do so here.
Truth is truth. It may sound hurtful, hateful, not nice, vindictive etc etc but it is THEIR TRUE STORY.
Another thing is Keane, this is not a place to ask questions becoz this is not the "DEAR ...." type of blog. Who are you expecting to answer you?
We TTG members, do not sit by here full-time (quite unlike church staff) to monitor this blog. We are a group of uncles and aunties who need to work full time, becoz like your parents, we also need money to send our kids to school.
So sho will answer questions here? ANYONE WHO HAPPENED TO HAVE LOGGED IN AT THAT TIME. I hope you understand what I am saying to you.
If you have questions that are bogging you, TTG members are in church every Sunday. Go talk to anyone. We will go have Teh Tarik, ok?
Look like CC problem is more then just TTG . all of us are looking at something consistent A LIFE STYLE OF A RICH AND FAMOUS MINISTRY WHO STARTS OF AS A SIMPLE CHRISTIAN CALLED BY GOD.
You can understand what and why some people do things in a certain ways. it is all because of what is one make up of.Lets study the consistency of the certain ways SP act.everyone is always consistent .Is this what you would see in a pastor?
Let be truthful to ourselves .truth will always prevail.
i believe if this is of God the root of this matters has to be deal with.Can we all work towards the root of this matters.I do see the root of this problem i believe many has seen the root of the problem through blogging here. those that see wonder when will it end . we really don't know but i believe God has his timing. God never intent to destroy but to build.
i feel assure the end is near. even in some unsure moments a sister sees a rainbow. holding on to a truth ,many a times are usually the minority but the truth burns in the hearts of the one who know it is truth .some even carry the truth to their grave and many years later ripe its fruits.i sincere hope it will not be for this case. i pray that those who know what the TTG GROUP IS TRYING TO ACHIEVE will come to terms with it and relay together to achieve it purpose.This is not for the faint hearted but for one who believe in their heart that once convince will go all out to ensure truth is uphold.
My plea is do search your heart if your really believe they have no other agenda but to bring truth back to CALVARY CHURCH do be accounted for and make yourself known to them so as to encourage the front liner that they are not alone.Of course you can remain anonymous for reason only known to you.
This concern calvaraties who stand out for this truth are doing it with heavy heart. please look at the list of them who are in this group.
Do they need a job in the church?
were they trouble makers to start with?
I notice some of them enjoy very envious relationship with SP family , it has to take guts to go against him.
Many see Pam and Jim grow up. they probably were once their teacher . Do you think anyone of this concern christian would wish any evil on them.Instead now you rule over everyone of them with iron hands. you have forgotten or your were never taught once your master always your master.
Yes indeed your family is blessed . some of us never have what you are having now or travel as much as you have( refering to Jim n Pam) and all the giving were given sacrafically. Pratically what other source of income could your family have obtain your riches from but through the calvary church structure. Now you hold on to what you have ill received Rm 1.9 as per records. i believe there is more then that.
Guneratnams your family are loved by calvarities. but does love mean agreeing with the way you are leading the church towards.
i simply do not understand why so much has being say yet nothing pratically nothing has being done to correct anything by you ,Rev Tan Sri
like some one say
just take the test of truth and transparency. if you pass uout intergrity is intact but even if you fail i believe all calvaraties will find it in their heart to forgive you.
We pray this concern calvaraites will stay to resoved this matters so don't expect them to leave as you had always hope will happen.e hope other ex calvary will instead come back here to ensure this agenda is achieve.The numbers are many now and it is growing. Don't believe me look at the congeration respond to your preaching.Most have taken the option to stop giving to calvary church but countinue to give to God work.
Joe black shall be here to see the end . will not leave.Please don't leave calvary church.
I just read "happy and sad's" comment and agree with this statement,
"The sad point is that our concerned calvarites are doing alot of wonderful things but the main issue is yet to resolved- our SP and BOD! How and when? It must be known that the longer it drags; it will make the scenario looks very urgly!"
I heard from friends that they have received calls from church staff Foong Ling, asking them if they are still attending church. These are voting members. If they no more,or once in a while, they will be demoted to Associate members. AGM coming soon, they are trying to axe all those who did not attend the 40th Anniversary dinner. They scared to loose in the next round of "election" in the church.
BTW, Sis Diana & Sis Karen. Did Foong Ling or any church staff call you to upgrade you back to voting members? I see you two are still faithfully attending church every Sunday.
Sorry got distracted but my point is, they are preparing to change the Membership Roll now to have only SP supporters ONLY. The longer you wait, the more they change.
Hi Keane,
Wonderful and sensible comments!! I am very impressed that one so young as you can see right through the purpose of this blog, which is really nothing more than an avenue to backbite persons that they do not like.
If ONLY the TTG CT etc etc whatever they call themselves "aunties & uncles" had HALF your insight and intelligence, they would have had the common decency & the right spirit to ensure the right thing be done by all Calvarites and readers of this blog by making sure that the contents of this blog bring GLORY TO GOD and not SHAME the CHRISTIAN FAITH by allowing such nasty and personal remarks to be aired for all and sundry purportedly under the cloak of allowing healing, exposing the truth and what not.
But you see by not doing so, they have exposed their malicious intentions. They slam all others who are seemingly 'anti'them and gladly embrace and encourage others to perpetuate their backbiting ways to all those who condemn those they condemn....TTG has shown by their actions that it stands for Terrible Testaments of Godlessness!God has been mocked by this blog.
You are not the first and will not be the last to get it from them and the same applies to me too. Remember others like Diana and WSL, they also got it too.
They may even delete this comment as they have done before, these insecure people.
Oh BTW CT and pro-CT people, don't waste your time surmising who I am. I'll tell you now that I am not an AP, Deacon or a Guneratnam etc etc OK!I am just someone who amuses myself when I am bored by logging on and laughing at you all....and occasionally posting my comment when I feel like it to irritate the living daylights out of you.
However Keane, if you read carefully, it's always the same old fellows posting the same old backbiting and gossipy nonsense in this blog....like an old broken record despite the using of different IDs, you can tell it's the same bunch of people from their style of writing. Who were they kidding? Only a handful of US stand out because we dare to challenge them!
Ha ha....sour milk in the tea now, besides the curds......
To those who wish to reply to me, I won't bother to reply you but will certainly look forward to reading your rantings & ravings with great amusement SO PLEASE GO AHEAD.....and have a good day!
Dear all bro & sis,
Let's not waste our time replying to reality check comments. The way he wrote sounded more like a sad and desperate person seeking for attention.
God bless.
To SP family secrets
Why are you surprised to see yur prayer deleted???
Don't you know that both these persons had asked God's forgiveness and stood in front of the whole Sunday congregation in the MCA Hall and confessed and asked forgiveness. They had been forgiven by God and the whole church embraced them and forgave them. So why are you dragging this up and bringing in an innocent teenager into your exposure.
Shame on you! Sounds as if - if you are a Christian(ie if you are one) with a very bad attitude and motive.
29/10/08
May I share with you my testimony? When I first attended CC I experienced the WOW factor on entering the church - like the Holy Spirit is there to great me.
Over the years this feeling has been absent - gone!!! Does it mean God is no longer present in CC?
Thru this informative blog (good that we share openly some for, some against SP, TGG, BOD etc) I begin to realise we are where we are because many of us are looking to our Pastors and our elected BOD for direction - this surely is not the way to go as they apparently fall short in their handling of our hard earned money. Many Calvarites have have left (see the dwindling nos. in our services, some continue to be in church but supporting the leaders blindly, some courageous enough to say something!!!
When our leaders fail to lead (like those Israeli kings of old, the people forget God and worship idols); God had to punish people and the evil kings but He raised new leaders to lead His people back to Himself.
We need to seek the Lord and when He is again exalted, spirituality will blossomed again starting from the roots upwards to those in position.
Ideally the Pastors, BOD and leaders should lead but if they do not; we the lay people must pray that Holy Spirit use each of us to bring a revival to our fellow members.
TTG - it is good that you encourage us to pray. Besides that let us make overselves available - I have confidence God will raise up for Himself leaders who will serve God 100%.
When King Saul disobeyed God, the Spirit of the Lord left him; however, God raised for himself King David.
When it is time for SP to go, then God will raise for Himself a new leader!!!
Calvarite
thank you 'sin confessed forgoten by our loving God'. Administrator, if possible, remove 'sp family secrets' unveiling of that ugly past. The whole world don't need to know that. Not fair to the innocent one involved. Whatever mentioned there has got nothing to do with what we are concern about now. Such as funds etc.
Dear Keane and your supporter
hahaha, very amusing, let the police and authority do the job.
Heeee, I am not frightening you, only devil can frighten you..
hahhahahahhahahhahhahahahhahahhaha
Dear all
I believe Keane is genuinely seeking to know the truth and due to his young age, there are things which he might not be able to comprehend…so let’s be gentler on him. Notwithstanding, Keane,I hope that you will also go look for one of the TTG uncles or auntys and speak to them directly and I’m sure they’ll be more than willing to explain to you why some things were done the way they were.
As for Reality Check on the other hand, I suggest we all ignore him as this person obviously thinks he or she knows better than everyone else…the spirit of self righteousness and pride can be clearly seen in him/her. His comments do nothing more than to provoke readers who read it and are not constructive in any sense. So let’s just ignore him and let him continue to wallow in his own pride and arrogance while we keep on pressing for the truth and accountability.
I think you must all stand firm for truth and fairness in Calvary Church. I am also an ex-staff for many years. I left many years ago because I was not given the chance to do my best for God. I left by faith and am working overseas now for many years.
About two years or so ago, I was surprise to received a letter from Calvary Church. For so many years I have been overseas, I have never received even one word from Calvary, then suddenly I got a letter. I opened it and it was a letter asking me to contribute to their building fund.
Then recently I also received the invitation to join the 40th anniversary celebration. I must pay 85 dollars. I am curious how come, they only remember me even when I am overseas when they want money. Before that, they did not look for me at all. This is a true story.
Hi working overseas,
Praise God that you are now serving Him with your full potential. I believe that must be a great joy to you and Him.
Going back to your comment on the church contacting you only when they wanted $$$, I guess the Pastors and staff needed to be sent for human relationship course. Well, probably they adhere to this Cantonese saying, "i kor sai kai whole yin sard".
To sp family secrets and very cheeky, with due respect I think we should not drag the children and grandchildren of sp into this sad saga. Let's be fair and merciful to them. What we want to see is that the truth and transparency in handling church funds by sp and bod be upheld. Let's stay in the issues and not go off tangent.
God bless.
Dear an1, maybe it is not fair to the teenager concerned but it is also not fair to others who have suffered under this familys hand. I am sure the whole family today is enjoying using the church money. How come no body say not fair? SP don't pay staff who resign the last month salary, how come no body say not fair? He ask people to back date resign letters so church don't have to pay us salry. Fair or not?
To "SP Family Secrets" and "Very Cheeky",
Agreed. Let's not the drag the children & grandchildren of SP into this.
All we want is TTG (Truth, Transparency and Good Governance) in CC.
We want to see the FULL glory of Jesus O Lord restored in CC.
Let's stay focus.
Dear SP family secrets & Very Cheeky,
We apologise that we have been deleting your comments without informing you. The reason we deleted them has been expressed by many who have responded to you faster than us. Thanks you others for quick response on our behalf. It is much appreciated.
To all bloggers who wish to put in comments, we request that you stay with the topic and the general flow of comments. The parents of the concerned party has made an appeal to all, not to blog about SP's personal family matters.
We, CT also stand by the family to make this appeal to all. Please do not put in comments regarding children or grandchildren or anyone not involved directly to this saga.
Since we have commented, we also address "Reality Check" here. You said, "TTG has shown by their actions that it stands for Terrible Testaments of Godlessness!God has been mocked by this blog.
You are not the first and will not be the last to get it from them and the same applies to me too. Remember others like Diana and WSL, they also got it too.
They may even delete this comment as they have done before, these insecure people."
Please be fair, we have not deleted anyone's comments, including those who have not supported us and "bashed us". We only deleted comments with PROFANITY and those comments which were posted into the "PRAYER" post and those involving innocent ones.
Since this blog is open to all, go ahead and amuse us too like you said, "I am just someone who amuses myself when I am bored by logging on and laughing at you all....and occasionally posting my comment when I feel like it to irritate the living daylights out of you."
We won't get irritated but we do not speak for all who read your comments though.
Happy Blogging and God Bless.
Well said Calvary Today!
I fully support CT's stand. Leave SP's immediate and extended family members out of this blog.
Profanities, etc also have no place here.
For those who want to amuse themselves, whatever your intentions are, by all means have fun but be prepared to be laughed at. Remember, we have the last laugh.
For teenagers and not very matured ones, this blog is on serious matters and if you do not have the maturity and tenacity to "take the blows", I suggest with all sincerity that you spend your precious time with your academic pursuits or career-building, and at the same time serve God in whatever ways you can. God will be proud of you, and I'm sure your parents too.
If you are still keen to know the truth, talk to one of us, commonly referred to us the Teh Tarik Group. Dunno who we are, ask other uncles and aunties. They will refer you to one of us.
Let your uncles and aunties pursue the cause of TTG, for with the Lord's help and strength we will eventually overcome and truth will prevail.
Like Dr Jay has said, God is on the side of Truth.
To the rest…sorry,itchy fingers,can’t resist replying to reality check.
To Reality check..woah,cowboy…slow down your horses here.you really shudnt give yrself THAT much credit…really…no one thinks you are BOD, a pastor or from the G family…why? Simply because even THEY won’t stoop to such a low level aka borderline delusional and do nonsensical stuff like keep reading the updates on calvarytoday while laughing at us and trying..i repeat, trying to irritate the living daylights out of us. Guess if you really have not much of a life and need to do something as pathetic as this, be my guest…it’s your life after all.
Wow..so clever of you to say it’s the same old oldies writing..don’t let me catch u writing another post using another nickname yah, coz if I’m not mistaken, u oso sound like some of those previous arrogant SP supporters who have commented on this blog before. Are u the same person? Who knows. Who cares. Why is it the same old stories? Because it’s about the same old person, SP…so unless u want us to start talking about perhaps SP’s driver or SP’s garden – new stories which might excite your sad life perhaps? It’s gonna be the same stories as it has happened to so many different people. Bummer for you there, soldier.
And on your last comment that u wont bother replying us…really? You would do us such a big favour? Tat’s great! Everyone, let’s celebrate that we won’t have to waste our eye muscle reading reality check’s delusional comments anymore....yippee! you might say that you will read our comments with amusement without replying, but deep down, I’m sure you’re writhing at our comments about you, aren’t you not…No? well, maybe you won’t. who knows.who cares.
To the rest, keep up the good work!
Like "Anonymous", I also can't help commenting on Reality Check's latest comments. You know after dinner nothing to do, so log on to CT and see whether there's anything to laugh at, and here I saw Reality Check's comments. Wow, at least something to laught at after a hard day at work. Cheerio!!!
So here I am laughing at Reality Check. I'm also not SP, neither am I a member of BOD or SP's family member or SP's supporter. I'm Reality Check's twin, joining in the fun.
Reality Check, funny or not? You know what? Other bloggers always have the last laugh. Meditate on this, Reality Check.
I wish to refer to Offeringcheck's comments "Yes, Philip..do check also all the love offering collected by SP from overseas, why never see any reporting?".
I am not accountant but I agree with Offeringcheck that the BOD, maybe Philip Tan, should check, and I really mean check, where are all of CIM's other sources of income, eg.
a) SP's love offerings
b) travelling reimbursements
I don't think churches and other organisations that invited SP to speak are so stingy that they don't know how to give love offerings to God's servants.
In my 20-odd years in CC, I remember giving love offerings many times to appreciate non-CC speakers.
On travelling reimbursements, I'm very sure churches and other organisations also reimburse expenses to speaker for travelling expenses (in SP's case, it's obviously business AIRfare but in Pastor Fred's case, maybe BOARTfare as he travels to jungles to preach).
If they don't, isn't it very rude? You invite a speaker and you expect him to pay. I'm not convinced at all.
Over to you, Philip or Edward. Let the truth surface.
Don't play-play.
Yes, by all means, check CIM's other sources of income, eg. love offerings, travelling reimbursements, etc.
I smell something. BTW, Pastor Fred's travelling expenses also include porter services as he's travelling to Tibet to preach.
I salute you, Pastor Fred, pushing 80 and still pushing hard for the Lord. God bless you.
Hi Reality check twin, you must be the smarter and more good lookin twin, Ha-ha.
Give your twin some time to meditate though, as he is probably suffering from diarrheoa from all the "sour milk in his tea" now.(quote taken from your twin's rantings)
Wow, looks like another can of worms is open. I wonder what's inside?
Philip/Edward, please tell us what's inside the can when you dig into it. God bless you for not hiding the truth, for God is on the side of Truth.
I refer to Don't Play-Play's comments "If they don't, isn't it very rude? You invite a speaker and you expect him to pay. I'm not convinced at all."
I have organised many corporate conferences involving foreign speakers and their travelling expenses were FULLY REIMBURSED.
I guess churches and Christian organisations can surely do better than corporates.
Go check it out, brauder Philip.
Like that also can. Church must look into Pastor G's love offerings and travelling reimbursements.
Pastor G, you seem to be hiding the truth. Spew it out before the wrath of God falls on you.
Having read the last few postings, I wonder whether all these years the church has really been giving the love offerings collected to invited speakers.
Or has the church been keeping some and only giving some to the speakers? Anyway, like lawyer KK Wong has said, it's an absolute gift - don't ask.
Dear Working Overseas,
We believe you. I was in Australia recently, and ex-Calvarites who have migrated there for so long also got similar letters like you. They told me about it.
Its just amazing. When it comes to money, they have their ways of tracking you down.
ooh,that's not all they do - track you down for money, they will also practice double standards for things like membership and allowing people to hold their weddings in church depending on how much money you have. I know of some people who have to climb the highest mountains to become a member whilst a few others,who by virtue of being rich, get bestowed as a voting member eventhough they don't meet certain criterias like attending lifegroup or friday prayer meeting. As for getting married in church, eventhough they have 'strict' rules such as both husband and wife having to be members of the church, they have broken the rules before for a rich family whose daughter's husband does not even come to calvary church but was allowed to hold their matrimony in Calvary.
Money talks. Money rules.
Talking about double standards, when my wife (at that time my wife-to-be) and I wanted to get married in CC, they insisted I be a member first b4 they allowed us to be married in CC.
My wife had no problem as she could transfer her membership from anothe AG church. And so I did just that as I love my wife (or wife-to-be) to be bogged down by all these requirements.
Hie 'Dont play play'
yes, i agree with you, i had experienced giving because of Christ's love, i took a couple out, God's servant, take them to my club for lunch, take them shopping, pay for the shopping ..so our DEAR couple pastor also enjoyed this type of treatment, i am sure.
so, got free shopping, love offering; but where is the ministerial ethics as claimed by one of our Asso. pastor during one of the AGM? Must delcare!
Philip Tan, please, a friend in need is a friend indeed! true friend will rebuke the wrong of your friend, dont regret for not rebuking your good friend--MR SP
Yes, I totally agree with OfferingCheck. Don't talk about ministerial ethics if you don't WALK the TALK. Declare the love offerings, etc.
Or is it only applicable for other pastors and not for BIG BROTHER AND SISTER?
Talkingb about double standards, one deacon who worked in a neigbouring country for a few years and only came back occasionally, was retained as a Voting Member, and then nominated and voted in as a deacon at our last AGM.
How come LFL did not call him up, and ask "Brother _____, I have not seen you in CC for a few months. Are you still attending another church?____. Well, we will have to redesignate you as an Associate Member."
Had he be another ordinary Voting Member, he would have long ago demoted to Associate, as has happened to so many Voting Members.
SP, your double standard is so so glaring. Even the dumbest person can see through you.
I praise God for your testimony (Pastor Fred.). There is a man of God who will serve Him out of love for Christ and not worldly reconition. Bro. you are an inspiration and encouragement to me especially in time like this. God bless you and may He grant you alot of love and favour as you continue to serve Him.
Hi brother,
I am not surprise by what is happening in CC today. I was not affected at all, why?
Let me tell you my story. It started way back in 1983, I was young active christian (save in 1977) from a diff. AOG church. I approach CC to use their premises for my wedding, the administrator at that time say that is hard (non-Calvarite) unless I transfer my membership to CC. I refuse to do that because I THOUGHT that we are all brother in Christ what membership got to do with renting a God's place. As our wedding is approaching ,my wife and I approach SP during one of service and asked what was the outcome. He rudely , give us one word answer "NO" without looking on us. We was very disappointed and went back to home church and inform my Pastor that SP has rejected our application. To our surprise, my Pastor say SP just call him and say everything is OK. We will wondering what my Pastor was thinking at that time, was I lying of SP is telling the Truth. From that day onward (1983) SP has lost his credibilty and surprising I have been attending CC from 1983 till now. I apply for my membership only in 2005 and was given as voting member in 2007. I thank God for early year experience and the current CC affrair, I was not wrong, God is leading me to look to Him and not man (pastors.).
Brothers and sisters in Christ, just thanks God all our spiritual eyes are open and we know that we are responsible for our own spiritual growth but searching the scripture daily and not only listen to man preaching from the pulpit.
Glory to God for this REVIVAL in Calvary Church, we are not more ignorant but are careful with what is entrusted to us.
Prais God
cmw
Not dumb,
Don't be surprised by SP's double standards. That particular DEACON is one of SP's "yes-man" deacon. SP makes doubly sure that his BOD are all his 'yes-men & yes-woman.'
If I were not-demoted Voting Member deacon, I would have rejected nomination to spare myself the shame now that this is exposed.
To the deacon concerned, I suggest you step down as technically, you should have been disqualified.
frankly, this man u are all talking about has failed big time as a deacon although he has only been re-appointed less than a year..he has also failed himself as he has forgone his principles and ethics to please SP.
A while back Anon asked
What's the AGENDA of SP and his supporters .....
He predicted
1. To cull the herd
2. To steal CC from members via CCC. To beggar/bankrupt CC through onerous debts and obligations, from one entity to another ( perhaps answering query about Calvaryland).
3. CIM will be another family "business" in conjuntion with CCC..
So whats the likely scenario. Besides internal there are external (incl. international) forces that are at work.
For we have "barbarians at the gates".
Yup,
1. Thru Church Membership constriction, attrition. Don't like it go jump in the Lake, leave the church etc.
2. Extended ministeries owned by G family. JG's AV portfolio (KB?) direct subsidies from church epf (oh yeah SP's epf my foot) - ever providing faithful.etc.
3. Thru stockpiling of profits and stashed loot in conjunction and under CIM takeover CCC.
Unlikely scenario?
Just asked the barbarians?
Asked Dr. Guynes etc. about SP and CIM roles for CCC.
Are the overseas funds/contributions going to CC or CIM?
TEHNC's comment to CHILD.
Its not teh but acronym for "the emperor has no clothes"
However SP cloaked (with Tan Sri, Datuk titles or other awards) or couched his justifications (personal conviction and vision to build CCC to leave a lasting legacy, "I don't have to do this for I could be retiring on my laurels" etc. as shared to his peers) the whole SAGA reeks of ROT and SP's covetousness, Disobedience, Disloyalty and HUBRIS.
CHILD (Pamela Lee nee Guneratnam) you are the one to bring your dad to his senses!!!
He is surrounded by a family of gunaRATnamS ( per KK's its apple-polishers, tale-carriers, "political secretaries etc.) and the coterie of cohorts and sycophants.
Ultimately SP, rightly or wrongly, has allowed strife, disunity, greed, pride to flow unabated in CC. For all the sins, wrongdoings and transgressions against our Almighty GOD he has to do the right thing. The buck stops there!!!!
Enuff is enuff says to those who felt used and discarded (guna and disgunaed)
You should be encouraged by posts of WHM regarding his earlier association with SP, with a certain deacon etc for its blessed to be a past gunaRAT than to continue serving two masters
1 Corinthians 15:58
To the DEVIL's advocates for subverting EGM process, and continual bogging down of this forum with diatribe, keen "desire to know and preaching 1/2 truths". You know we have struck or will be digging up the whole Truth. Your comments reflect that the inner circle is getting more than worried from the outpouring of baaa baaa baaa comments of us CC's sheep.
CT & TTG has made a christian blogging such a disgrace. I despise them ultimately. I definitely won't be looking up to them as a christian role model. Even is SP & deacons are gone, these rotten self righteous TTG are still polluting the entire church. I really wonder who in CC or other churches would truly be blessed if the CT or TTG are around. Seeing some of the TT members in church really makes me sick. They are just like the pharisees in the olden days of the Bible. Can't wait to point finger & find faults. I believe only God can save us all from these self righteous TTG. Thank God that His Word brings light to most of us to see their true color.
Really disgraceful. The worst is that they see their emotions venting here is alright. As if their hurt emotion is the "Will of God" to follow rather than follow the way of the Bible for true healing.
What shock me is CT & TTG indirectly encourage it or do nothing about it. All they say is that all bloggers has their freedom to vent out their anger here. And they biblicalised bad mouthing here. Sad to say, I saw them almost every Sunday in church thinking they are doing the whole CC a favor. Kind of wish the TTG has more constructive things to do, than being desperately pityful here influencing innocent people using this blog. Most TT members looks like a joker. Despise them all.
As a constructive step we have to
1. Bring the extended ministries back into CC's fold and and under qualified church personnel (whether asociate, assistant pastors or members). Open the process so that everything is aboveboard and all legal ramifications are resolved.. No nepotism, despotism or cronyism. PG and JG will have to compete for the head posts.
2. CIM rightfully belongs to CC. He has to start his GIM.
3. CCC to be reviewed in its entirety. SP and family should recuse themselves because of conflict of interest and competency unless they can prove it otherwise.
4. CC's constitution to be revamped so that despot and his dynasty can never be perpetuated. See "The Need for Constitutional Amendments" by WHM
Anonymous (enuff is enuff, TEHNC) says other than Anon comment at 2:33 am., I take responsibility for comments between (1:26 to 2:34) herein this post so as not to confuse readers.
CMW said 'Brothers and sisters in Christ, just thanks God all our spiritual eyes are open and we know that we are responsible for our own spiritual growth but searching the scripture daily and not only listen to man preaching from the pulpit". Yup albeit for most of us some 36 yrs later.
Hear that devil's advocates- give a little bit more of time to SP. Isn't it very disingenous or duplicitious, cunning of them to say let God be God (SP is the only one anointed baa baaa .. ).
Please continue to post sermons(1st viz a viz 2nd). The flock are not the only one under AV surveilance. This will ensure Godliness, Integrity and Truthfullness from the Pulpit. We are "keanely" seeking the Truth which is the raison d’être of this blog. Praise The Lord.
Another meaningless comment from TT member. I wonder why are their spiritual eyes is so blinded. The end time is indeed near, so many once faithful christians walk in their own sinful way. Sigh...... A bunch of blinded try to lead people.
I'll pray for this poor soul for his/her naiveness. May God have mercy & grace for them to have a peaceful spirit. Amen.
To the Anonymous (30th Oct. @ 2.33 am)who despise TTG,
It is obvious to all and sundry on this blog that you are speaking out of self-righteous pride and hatred! Are you not like the Pharisees, indeed?
How dare you, self-righteous SP supporter, begrudge us wounded and betrayed Calvarites the space to vent our hurt emotions here on this blog? The Tan Sri who is the cause of Calvary Church’s present problems has failed to care for the Lord’s sheep – he is the one you should despise. Called of God to shepherd His flock, but instead he used the riches and wealth of the flock to further his own selfish ambition. For all these 36 years he was building his own kingdom and the Gunerotnam dynasty under the pretext of building the Lord’s kingdom, thereby taking the Name of the Lord in vain!
The cries of the oppressed people of Calvary Church are now reaching God’s Throne of Grace and Judgment, as well as exposing Tan Sri Prince Guneratnam’s secret sins to the very world that he had been trying to impress.….it’s about time A/G USA knows about Prince Guneratnam’s hypocrital life, too!
Every time I hear him speak, I hear the voice of the snake! Now when I see him, I cringe inside of me! Rev. Dr. Tan Sri Prince Guneratnam – and Datuk as well – has lost its credibility! His self-acquired titles (probably purchased with Calvary Church’s money) reflect his love for money and his lust for the things of the world.
I am not a TTG. I am just an ordinary Christian who have been betrayed, lied-to, fleeced and taken-for-a-ride by a deceiver, a supplanter, a hireling shepherd, an imposter! His name should be changed, from Prince to Jacob! SP is definitely no ‘prince with God’!
Many thanks to God and TTG, church members for their revealation about SP and CC. Indeed is an eye opener for all of us. I love reading this blog but after reading this blog I ask myself some questions.
1. Is my God Sovereign over the whole situtation? If yes...else
2. DO I draw closer to God after reading the blog or draw further away from Him with resentment and anger.
3. What ia my next step of action after knowing the Truth.
May the Good Lord give us wisdom and peace as we submit to His will.
God's know.
cmw
To wounded & betrayed,
Please-lah. You are axactly the double face person in your own comment. Called yourself wounded & betrayed? Shame on you. You don't sound like a person with a wounded spirit. You sound like a evil person who is blinded spiritual by your own hatred & anger. Do you know why you behave this way? You are consumed by you own hatred & unforgiveness spirit.
When someone vented anger here towards SP & BOD, you all cheered, add in more revenged, cursing & bad mouthing. You all claimed practising freedom of speech here & seeking healing by putting horrible comment here. But, if someone write a comment that is opposite here, you all sudden turn into a wounded mode claiming as a wounded innocent seeking for healing. Who are you all trying to kid?
I expect all TTG holligans to come bashing. I know cause I'm not the first & last to irritate them. One more thing is that the TTG or their holligans was never brave in coming with constructive solution. All they do is seeking revenge, spreading hatred, seeking freedom, seeking healing ... whatever they claim lah. To me, all will be invain. I don't have to be proved wrong. I'm very certain cause TTG's ways are unbiblical. TT supportors, you don't have to tell me that SP & BOD wrong you even more, cause all I see is that no TT supportors are able to say / prove that everything TTG does is biblical. So, nothing TT/CT does makes of proud of their existence.
Dear All,
Let us all stop rebutting each other here. This is what the "negative anonymous-es" want to do. Whenever, the ppl pursue the right course by discussing ACTION PLAN, they will come is to distract. JUST IGNORE AND DON'T BOTHER ABOUT THEM.
To cmw : We are all in a very "sad & sorry" state. God is Good, read the previous post on "PRAYER WEEK". There is a beautiful Rainbow to remind us of GOD'S PROMISES.
I also discovered that CT has posted a new article in BeritaC. It may help us understand ourselves and the situation we are in a little better.
Copied from Berita Calvary:
What Is Spiritual Abuse?
Submitted by Vijay
NB: THESE ARE MY PERSONAL VIEWS AND NOT NECESSARILY THE VIEWS OF THE NECF, MALAYSIA.
"I have shared this information for the purpose of educating and liberating Christians from spiritual abuse. If you are already a Christian who has gone through Spiritual Abuse and liberated by the power of the Holy Spirit, I would encourage you to make yourself available to other victims."
Dr. Paramsothy Vijayan
http://www.normangrubb.com/
Happy reading.
Dear all bro & sis,
Let's not waste our time replying to anonymous a.k.a. reality check comments. The way he wrote sounded more like a sad and desperate person seeking for attention. Let him continue with his all "righteous and saintly" attitudes.
God bless.
talking about the New Age philosophy thing. Pam G is now in charge of the youth ministry. If Pam thinks New Age philosophy is ok, can you imagine what will happen? It is going to infiltrate the minds of our youth who are our future leaders. How can the church allow this to happen? The church is not protecting our youth from such infiltration. It is sad that this is happening in the church. The pulpit is free for all. Preachers can preach anything they want and instill fear. What is happening to this church? Pastor Steven, what are you doing about this? You are suppose to be one vetting through all the sermons that will be preached on Sundays. What ever happen?
to the treasurer of CC
Are you looking into the missing money, "offerings and travel reimbursement received by SP for his overseas travel"?
What actually happen to the money? It is not reflected in the main church accounts. Where is it? Has it gone into SP personal account?
???????????
Hi guys,
We are trying to cleanse the church and it looks like we are saying things which does not augur well to others.
Remember, many of the members and young people are looking up to us and we must set a good example, including myself.
Please!!!!!
excuse me guys, all of the stories mentioned here are not hearsay. The stories related are true stories and has happened to the person concerned.
I also know of one ex staff who has resigned and was not paid according the labour law. The notice was given and after taking into account the annual leave which was not taken, the staff was not paid anything, not a single cent.
So these stories are true stories. The stories happened. So they are not lies or make up stories. No matter how many times you ask the stories will remain the same THE TRUTH THE WHOLE TRUTH and not some half truths
I suggest that all the ex-staff whom were not paid according to the labour law their last salary to:
1. approach the church for a reimbursement as it is due to you.
2. if there's no response from the church, then you may actually go to the labour office and lodge a formal complain.
Don't tell me you want to 'jaga' the good name of the church. If that is what you're thinking, then just eat humble pie and not say anything about it in this blog. Someone will have to do something, and do it right once and for all. Otherwise, someone else would suffer the same fate.
God bless.
It sad and very painful to see our brother and sister in Christ fighting among one another.
O Lord Jesus,
I stand in the gap for all my hurting brothers and sisters in Christ, many of whom are seeking Your divine intervention in CC.
O Lord, I grieve alongside with them for all that they had and are still going through.
I pray You will comfort and heal each one of them.
Teach us O Lord to forgive one another.
O Lord, I pray You will step in and intervene in the affairs of CC, for our leaders have failed to take the necessary remedial actions to bring about healing and reconciliation in Your body of believers.
Come Lord Jesus, take Your rightful place in CC, for this is Your church, established for the purpose of exalting Your Holy Name.
Come Lord Jesus, come quickly and heal Your people.
In Jesus' name.
Thank you for the article on Spiritual Abuse. It has helped me to understand that we all have been victims of spiritual abuse by SP, SAP, some of the APs, & Bod of Calvary Church.
In fact, now I feel real sorry for Anonymous a.k.a Reality Check - his reaction to our blogging is exactly as had been described by that article! Amazing!
It is shocking to read about all the hurtful/harmful things that SP has done/still does to the staff and congregation. That man doesn't seem to have a conscience at all; he has no fear of God! To a certain extent, his various family members are guilty. For aren't they partakers of the enjoyment bought with money taken (without the congregation's knowledge nor consent)from church funds?
SP and his family members had better repent fast or they risk having their names erased from the Book of Life. They will end up like Hopeless in 'Pilgrim's Progress' denied forgiveness by the Lord; and for that matter, Peter Ong, the other guilty pastors and the guilty deacons.
Dear 'window of repentance,'
I agree with you.
Methinks SP and SAP may be about to reach 'the point of no return,' and commit the unpardonable sin. The longer they resist the conviction of the Holy Spirit to repent and confess their sins, and make restitution (which they had always been preaching about!), the harder it will be for them to "turn from their wicked ways."
Suddenly I just feel so sad for them!
Just for the general information on the youth, our lessons are prepared by the youth leaders themselves not Ms. Pam.
The lessons are sricptural and theologically based, so please do not worry that the youth may be being taught the wrong thing.
Ms. Pam is merely there to facilitate the youth. I hope this at least helps to clear something about how the youth gets their lessons.
thank you.
O Lord Jesus,
I cry out to You O Mighty God to intervene in the affairs of CC, for our leaders have failed to take remedial actions to bring about healing and reconciliation to Your body of believers.
Come Lord Jesus, take Your rightful place in CC, for this is Your church, established for the purpose of exalting Your Holy Name.
Come Lord Jesus, come quickly and restore Your church.
In Jesus' name.
Dear person from youth
Although the teachings are done and prepared by the youth leaders whom I have no doubt are very passionate for the Lord, these youth leaders themselves are still young and will need a certain degree of spiritual guidance from their youth pastor and if they were to get this guidance from someone who believes in new age teachings, I would say that this is indeed an alarming fact. Why do you all need a facilitator who just sits around during youth meetings and ‘observe’? If that’s all she does, then anyone can do that, even the gardener….what kind of value adding to the spiritual growth of the youths does she give? I think the youths of the church are a fantastic bunch of people, but I’m also worried for their spiritual health if this were to continue on and you guys do not have a godly mentor who can be there to conduct altar calls, teach the word of God and pray for the youths.
Dear new register,
Since you have addressed the following question on this blog - (Quote) "BTW, Sis Diana & Sis Karen. Did Foong Ling or any church staff call you to upgrade you back to voting members? I see you two are still faithfully attending church every Sunday." - then, I believe that it warrants a reply, though, I am not speaking on behalf of Sis. Karen.
No one from the church office who handles membership matters has called me on any reinstatement to Voting member from Associate.
Thank you for your concern about my membership status. I want you to know that I sincerely appreciate you for this kind thought.
However, I have stated my stand before in this blog about my membership reinstatement and as my answer to you, I will state it again.
It was God who called me to Bible School and if, because of God's call and in keeping with CC's membership rules, I am demoted to Associate member,then so be it.
I don't mean to sound super spiritual and/or perhaps naive, as some of you may comment. This is not my intention. In fact, I don't see myself as spiritual nor naive.
I just find a lot of truth in what my lecturers at BCM have taught me - to set my eyes and priorities on the eternal things than temporal and then, I will not be so easily fazed by man-made rules and regulations, placed there for administrative purposes. My lecturers have imparted me the wisdom of always looking at the bigger picture than the small. To look far, see the communal good than the individualistic good.
In the light of such knowledge and attitude, therefore, for me, being or not being a voting member will not change what I have been called to do for God. It does not change the fact that I worship and serve where God leads me.
After all, I have been attending CC since 1991 and allowed to take part in so many Christmas presentations but only in 1999, when God called to study at AIM, that, I took the step to apply for membership. It has turned out to be the right decision and the timing is as God intended.
This was so because 6 months later, while at AIM, my call to further my studies at BCM came and I needed CC to give me spiritual covering. I am grateful that SP granted it, though, my membership had not even been approved yet.
I have also stated that I can understand why the church did what they did. This is because when one has a full-time call, more often than not, the call will take you out of your current church and God will lead you to serve someplace else.
Of course, in the recent years, this trend has changed. So perhaps, what would be good, is for the membership committee to review the change in trend and modify the rules accordingly. Yet, this is just a suggestion, for they must take the initiative to do the necessary in discharging their duties and capacity in that committee.
Besides, I was informed by the Pastor governing my weekend ministry then - Pastor Susan Tan, about my change in membership status. She took the trouble to voluntarily explain the reasons behind the membership committee's actions for my understanding. I felt so blessed by her actions and initiative.
My heart of course, feel sorry for Karen, in that she was not accorded the due courtesy and respect of being informed and had to find out from the notice board. That should not have happened, yet, I believe that it could be a case of human err on someone's part.
So, membership matters is a closed issue for me at this point of time.
Thanks once again.
God bless
Diana
To all who post comments here
My heart is very heavy in the way the direction this blog is heading - there are quarrels, indiscrete exposures and some seem so intent on revenge.
I beseech everyone to pray before writing anything. Please, please write with Christian love and God's discernment and be focused
Please be very careful what you write, assume and presume things.
Remember in the end, we too need to be accountable to what we write. Please do not simply use terms like "committed the unpardonable sin" - that is such a serious statement. I would tremble if I accuse someone of that.
Let us seek for truth, accountability in the proper way.
I would beseech the Administrators of CT that they would do something concrete, ie have a petition to seek meetings with the BOD for updates of what they are doing. With the sentiments expressed I am sure many will be willing to sign. Let us force the BOD to come out.
Let us not be like the politicians who would not think it is wrong to do a smear campaign. As you know they would dig up dirt to expose the candidate. Let us be more loving and godly and not go that route. Let us be focused on what we want instead of wandering all over the place with so many accusations, condemnations, etc.
REMEMBER GOD STILL LOVES EVERYONE, EVEN THE G'S. THERE IS NO ONE THAT GOD WILL NOT FORGIVE AND LOVE.
REMEMBER WE ARE FIRST GOD'S AMBASSAOR AND NEED TO REFLECT HIM AND HIS LOVE...SECOND A MEMBER OF CALVARY CHURCH!!
O Lord Jesus,
With a very heavy heart, I cry out to You O Mighty God to intervene in the affairs of CC.
If SP, for whatever reason known only to himself, does not want to initiate healing and reconciliation to Your church, I pray that members of the BOD will be enboldened with Your courage and love to DO SOMETHING BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE.
Members of the BOD, I beseech all of you to raise up and take AFFIRMATIVE ACTIONS to bring about healing and reconciliation to God's church.
Come Lord Jesus, take Your rightful place in CC, for this is Your church, established for the purpose of exalting Your Holy Name.
Come Lord Jesus, come quickly and restore Your church.
In Jesus' name.
A plea to the Board of Deacons of Calvary Church Kuala Lumpur,
I appeal to you in the name of Jesus Christ our Lord to initiate actions that will bring about healing and reconciliation to CC.
Each one of you has been chosen to LEAD and not be LED. You have been entrusted with a heavy responsibility, so carry it out in the fear of the Lord and not men.
Saying "let God be God" is not the answer. Do something, otherwise make way for God to appoint other men and women of God who truly love His church and see it STRONG and UNITED.
Bro Patrick Wong, Bro Stephen Liu, Bro Han Joke Kwang, Bro Philip Tan, Bro Edward Rajasingam, Bro Dr Lum Siew Heng and Sis Bernadette Foo, I appeal to you to ACT today.
We, concerned Calvarites, will stand by the BOD, if all of you stand on the side of Truth for God is definitely on the side of Truth.
BOD,
I agree with Simpleman. Do something and be quick, before more get hurt and disillusioned with the church.
Many have left and many more are contemplating leaving. Some disillusioned ones have even stopped attending church altogether, at least temporarily, I pray.
Why??? BOD, I need not elaborate but you know the answers. So act in the fear of the Lord not Rev. Tan Sri Datuk Dr Prince Guneratnam.
Dear Rev. Tan Sri Datuk Dr Prince Guneratnam, Senior Pastor of Calvary Church Kuala Lumpur,
I appeal to you in the precious name of Jesus our Lord to answer God's call on your life, i.e to be an evangelist.
Why so long? Have faith in God to supply all your needs as an evangelist, if that is the desire of your heart.
If your good friends Pastor Robert Lim and Pastor Fred Abeysekera can do it, I'm sure you can too, but you must take the first step, and God will lead you every other step.
Forget all the trappings of your current position as SP of CC, and launch out to help God evangelise the world.
If you are not comfortable with the jungles and the slums, there are also many urban centres with millions yet to hear and embrace the Gospel, from NZ to South America.
I know you can do it, if only you yield to God's Holy Spirit. Listen to Him and don't resist Him, but resist the Devil.
So Rev. Tan Sri Datuk Dr Prince Guneratnam, Senior Pastor of Calvary Church Kuala Lumpur, I urge you to be an evangelist as your calling as a shepherd is over.
Be kind to CC so that truth and righteousness can be restored to her once again. Think seriously about it, pastor, but don't take too long.
It's my sincere appeal to you, and I dare say, the appeal of many concerned Calvarites. What say you out there?
Simpleman,
You have my support. SP has shared with the CC congregation many times that he wants to be an evangelist. So be it!
Go for it Pastor G. Go for it for God will be with you, but you must give up the gold and silver in CC.
Go for it Pastor. Go for it.
I will say "amen" to that!
If you've gotta go, SP, you've gotta go...! GO AND DON'T LOOK BACK!Don't be like Lot's wife, who looked back & was turned into a pillar of salt!
SP, The people of Calvary Church have lost their confidence in you, so it's better for you to go and be that evangelist that you've always wanted to be!
Yes, go for it pastor. Lest you misunderstand, it's "go" for it not "gold" for it.
If Pastor Fred, pushing 80, can push it, you can push it too.
So push it Pastor, push it.
Amen, SP should be an evangelist, not a pastor who must have a shepherd's heart that oozes tender-loving care (TLC). It's gone, it's gone. I don't think any will dispute this.
SP, forget about your legacy, the CCC, for God will raise up another to fulfil the dream. If CCC is truly God's vision, He will surely see it fulfilled.
Answer God's calling and be an evangelist. God will bless you, not necessary with gold or silver, but in other ways, eg, long life like Pastor Fred and perpetual black hair.
Dear "I'm sure God is very sad.."
I understand your sentiments, but if you must quote me, please quote accurately...ok?
And in the meantime, please meditate on this scripture & ask God to reveal to you what it means...
"If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctifed him, AND WHO HAS INSULTED THE SPIRIT OF GRACE?"
Hebrews 10:26-29
This portion of scripture was written to the believers and NOT to the unbelievers!
Hi ccily 2,
Looking at the scripture that you just quoted, I'm trembling with fear of God's wrath if I have indeed INSULTED THE SPIRIT OF GRACE.
I pray that SP, and for that matter anyone of us, will NOT take God's stern warning and His long-suffering for granted.
If SP's desire is REALLY to be an evangelist, can we not move a motion at our next AGM (or is it too late?) to propose that CC send him out as an evangelist.
Maybe missions can support him up to say RM20,000 a year, on condition he travels economy class, and if need be, be prepared to scale mountains (I mean not too high ones) and shoot the rapids.
Is it feasible?
Yes, indeed, "don't play-play"....
God is a holy God! How can a HOLY GOD allow sin in the lives of His servants go unpunished, if they refuse to repent?
"Insulted the Spirit of grace" is tantamount to committing the unpardonable sin....i.e. blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. This sin can only be committed by Spirit-filled Christians...Christians who know the Holy Spirit and yet keep insulting Him by refusing to repent....
No GOLD, NO Go!
I think grey hair will make SP more mature-looking.
Anyway, coming back to SP's calling to be an evangelist, I suggest that the BOD talk to him in private and make him an offer (I mean aboveboard compensation package, with some small perks).
BOD can work on a timeline, say 3 to 6 months on sabattical leave, followed by a fixed speaking itinerary over 1 year. This can come directly under Missions Committee (not PO).
I think this is feasible. Any views.
Good idea Ah Ngau.
Instead of sabbatical, reward SP & SAP with a one-month QE2 cruise for their 40 years of service.
Thereafter, Missions Committee can co-ordinate by informing the Christian community worldwide that SP is available to speak as an evangelist.
To be more effective, Missions Committee can plan all his speaking engagements.
Dear Not So Naive,
Let me clarify. The RM20,000 a year is for probation period only. If SP performs - obviously we will get full reports based on certain KPIs from those who invited him to speak) - the Missions Committee can increase his stipend to RM50,000 a YEAR not MONTH (better make this very clear, to spell it out in offer letter).
Not So Naive,
I think RM20,000 per year should suffice. Afterall, the host will pay for all expenses - airfares, accomodation, and misc.
By the way, don't forget the love offerings too. They can be quite substantial and most likely in USD.
Ah Ngau, ah ngau, where have you been?
Calvary Church is a GOLDMINE...Calvary Church is not like other churches that pay their pastors a mere stipend! Why do you think all our APs have remained faithful to the church even though so many other staff have left? Calvary Church is where the money is at, man!
Simpleman, yes, you are right...I have quite forgotten about the USD love offerings that keep SP and SAP flying back to the States to preach year after year!...SP is quite THE CELEBRITY PREACHER in the U.S.
SP before you go please make sure you return all the money which belongs to Calvary Church. It is God's money. You are not suppose to steal God's money. Plse also take your wife along. We also do not want her around.
After all the stories that we have heard about the church office, it is really very shameful that the church working environment is like that. This is really disgusting because the church office environment is suppose to reflect God's love and principles.The church is suppose to be a blessing to the people around us but it is not. Shame on you Senior Pastor and Senior Associate Pastor as the head of the church organization for encouraging the bad things that are happening in the church office.
To all the other pastors, why are you submitting yourself to this kind of environment of the church. Remember it is each individual that will make a difference in the working place. It starts with you an individual. But if you as an individual is not going to do any good thing like be caring, helpful etc, then the situation in the office is going to remain the same or get even worse with all the spying or backbiting. So what do you say pastors? Do you still want to let the situation be as it is or do you as an individual want to make a difference in the church office?
to the anonymous who despise TTG and call them rotten self righteous...guess wat, i m not from TTG but i despise u too as i find u r rotten and self righteous and disgraceful. i dont think any church wud oso be bless if u attend it,so pls tell me which service u r going to or maybe if u change church,tell me which church u go,so i wil make sure i dont go there.despise u la.
Wow, this is too much for me to follow. Maybe CT need to moderate the comment section.
Anyway, since Sis. Diana has replied "new register", I
should too. I should have logged in earlier then I could hitch on her reply which is basically the same. The only difference is I am not expecting them to do so because of my stand on issues today.
Actually, I have another long story to tell about my membership experience recently but I would not do it here. If you want to know, we can go out for a cup of tea sometime.
Diana, thanks for feeling sorry for me because I also feel sorry for myself - I have had two "shock" experiences from looking at the membership roll. I am expecting a third "shock" soon. So like you, I leave this membership status entirely to the Lord. AM or VM or No M, makes no difference to my walk with God - Thankfully.
God Bless
Karen
Dear obvious,
Yes, I do understand what you are saying and will agree. But the youth do not have a youth pastor. I dont know anything about what I read here about Ms.Pam being a pastor. As far as the youth in general is concerned, we have not heard about Ms.Pam being a pastor, or maybe its just me??
And yes, although the youth leaders teachings now is fine, I will agree with you that we need spiritual backing from elders in the faith.Perhaps you guys could put in a request that the youth has a pastor to help overlook the youth? Not just in the teachings, but I feel that the youth would need someone, a pastor to be a role model and comforter and friend for the young people to look up to.
Thank you.
i dont understand why some of you are "pleading" to sp to go on this comment box? its not like his reading this, not like he even bothers reading this, and even if he did get someone to read this for him to help summarize, his just going to dismiss all your pleas as empty cries to the wind.
GO CONFRONT HIM!!!!
do it in his face, in numbers, in conviction, not hidden within this comment box pact with tons and tons of comments....
Yes, I agreed with frus, if you guys want to say anything about SP, SAP, APs or BOD, please go directly to them and say whatever you want onto their faces, this is Biblical principle in Matt.18. Gather together if you all want and just confront him or them rather than stating all the frustrations and anger here, your pleas are falling into wrong ears. Is this going to be constructive blogging here or perhaps more destructive?
Come on.., IF you want changes, be bold, go and talk to them. They don't bite!!
Hi all,
Would just like to say that it is not that we did not try to approach or talk to the leadership. Like some of the others, I have written a letter to the BOD 2 months ago but to date, there has been no reply from them collectively as a board save for one caring deacon who actually called me up to encourage me to keep serving the Lord. Another deacon asked someone for my hp no. but in the end, was too busy/forgot/decided not to call me up perhaps.
In conclusion, although my pleas were made to the right ears, it did not seem to have much of an effect. Perhaps, it fell on deaf ears?
Anyhow, I hope the rest who have written in or who have met up with the leadership had better results than I did. Thank God though for many concerned calvarites who have been very encouraging to me. God is good.
Dear MH,
Please do not be discouraged.
Many have written in and they will not reply other than acknowledging receipt of your letter.
If this is what a church should be behaving, I seriously think they are not of the Lord. We voted them in to acknowledge receipt of our letters only. Honestly they just want the glory of being a BOD member. Their friends, working colleagues and relatives will think highly of them when they tell them that they are deacons of one of the largest church in Malaysia.
Honestly I think 85% of the current BOD are selfish and not really responding to God's calling.
They have self interest and not God's interest.
BOD, please prove me wrong!
Dear "Frus" and "A Far Away Servant of the Lord",
I think both of you are ignorant. What make you think we have not spoken to SP or BOD, either directly or indirectly?
I personally spoke to one of the deacons that SP should step down as he has already lost his shepherd's heart and instinct long ago, but he merely told me "let God be God".
To me, this is pure APATHY, INDIFFERENCE, PASSING THE BUCK TO GOD, QUE SERA SERA WHATEVER WILL BE, WILL BE,etc.
The trouble with the majority of Pentecostals is that many of us are so HEAVENLY-MINDED that we are no EARTHLY-GOOD.
Stop passing the buck to God, let it stop with you. Do something, BOD.
And a word of advice to "Frus" and "A Far Away Servant of the Lord". Do something yourself. Don't just instigate others and do nothing. Confront SP and BOD if you must. Think about it!
To MH and YTF
No point airing views here re no action from the BOD.
Know for a fact that they do not read this blog - maybe one (without SP's knowledge) and an AP.
We can blog till the cows come home - they will not react - excuse - don't know mah! Who dares to react without SP's permission!!
Our comfort is in God who knows but then we need to be careful how we go about it.
All said and done, we need to pray fervently that God will intervene in our affairs.
Continue to pray that God will move the hearts of the BOD and to remove their fear of that man - SP.
Father God,
I pray for every member of the BOD. Remove all their fears, especially of SP, and that You will lead them to do the RIGHT THING.
Grant them boldness to act without fear or favour.
Move O Lord, I cry out to You My God. Move O Holy Spirit. Let revival come to You church, and let Truth and Righteousness prevail.
In Jesus name. Amen
Amen to Simpleman's prayer.
Yes, we must continue to pray for God's intervention. We can only do so much and let's leave the rest to God, for He really does care.
We must be patient and in His time, He will bring His plan to pass.
I'm convinced that God is working, in His own way and timing. Let's not grow weary, for in due time we will see His results. Amen
Amen. Thanks Simpleman and Ah Ngau for your encouragement. Yes, God is indeed in full control.
The TTG must continue to press on. Don't be distracted by instigators, pessimists and que sera sera people.
God is on the side of Truth. We need not fear.
Perhaps we need to take drastic action. TTG should organise a "sit-down" strike/demonstration outside the DH church, on a Saturday afternoon, complete with posters, placards, banners, to publicise our cause. I will be willing to contribute to the cost of the banners, etc., as will others, I'm sure. Enlist the help of a reporter from Star or Sin Chew Jit Poh to write down all our grievances. Maybe then SP and BOD would be willing to talk...
Oh, by the way, a write-up on the 40th Anniversary Dinner is published in StarMetro page M18. Maybe the administrator can upload that article here on the blog.
How come SP & SAP didn't invite the Seawards tot he 40th Anniversary thingee? Isn't Sis. Seaward SAP's godmother, or something? Have they 'fallen out' because Sis. Seaward have tried to correct them? (heard a rumour about this)
One of the banners should state something like this:
"Senior Pastor of Calvary Church, we've lost our confidence in you! Please leave!"
... strike? demonstration? placards & banners? ... I hope you realise that these are the kind of things/suggestions that will put off many members who otherwise would support the noble and appropriate cause for changes ... there are ways and then they are Christian ways ...
Organise a candle-light vigil. It's peaceful, and at the same time we can sing some worship songs and have the word of God shared and also sharing of testimonies.
Middle Path,
It's not wrong to have peaceful demonstrations. It's not wrong to publicise our cause the peaceful way. It's not wrong to speak out against unrighteousness and injustice.
Er, by the way, are you a SP supporter a.k.a anonymous 2.33 am?
guess what everybody. apparently SP don't know how to use computer! so of course he's not reading this. not directly at least. perhaps he gets others to on the computer for him while he just sits there with his leg up on the table!
Dear Board Of Deacons
what happen to all your promises? to improve communication, initiative of moving forward, after EGM, so many different one had written in for clarification and further actions, but none received any positive feedback!
Please, we are not making noises here, we sincerely appeal, at least, be gracious and be pro-active if you truly believe CC is having problem with regards to accountability, integrity, transparency and governance issuees as per comment highlighted by Forensic accountant and Lawyer.
The TTG, had tried to talk to every deacons and talk to different leaders in the church, but to no avail.
Readers, please note, all these necessarily steps had been taken, now the ball is in the BOD and SP court, they can decide the future of Calvary church.
Hi "we got an illiterate ps"
SP can't access our blog directly as he's computer-illiterate but when his konco2 print out for him to read, they would have moderated the comments.
It's for SP's eyes only. APs must pull wool over SP's eyes so he only reads what they want him to read.
Father God,
I pray for every member of the BOD. Remove all their fears, especially of SP, and shake them to do the RIGHT THING.
Grant them boldness to act without fear or favour. Cause them to march for truth to the tune of "Onward Christian soldiers".
Move O Holy Spirit. Let revival come to Your church, and let Truth and Righteousness prevail.
In Jesus name. Amen
Dear All,
It has been 2.5 months since our last EGM. We have not heard anything from the deacons at all. There was no announcement from the pulpit about anything that is going on ie whether the BOD is doing anything or coming up with any plans as to how to resolve the current issues in Calvary Church. Maybe we should also call for resignation of the Board of Deacons as well. What do you guys think?
Perhaps it is sp, bod, and ap's idea to 'ignore' this blog and 'ignore' the TT's efforts, thinking that people will get tired and slowly forget all the wrongs. Maybe some will get tired and some will keep going on in pursue of a healthy church. Either way, no one wins because the leadership refuses to acknoledge that the church is in dire need of change. Take heart, at the end of it all, whatever happens, God He reigns.
They may think that nothing is happening or rather they are hoping that nothing is happening. All the pots are at stewing stage now. We can't see what God has in store but it will come. When God seems silent does not mean He is not doing anything. When all the pots are ready to be served, it will be too much to take at one time. So, let us wait patiently to see what God will do. Now is the time for us to develop patience and long suffering. Meanwhile let us sing the old time corus,
In His Time X2
He makes all things beautiful,
In His Time.
Lord you show us everyday
As you're teaching us your way
and to do just what you say
In Your Time.
Let us commut all to God.
Sound The Alarm! said...
BOD have failed to keep their promises to the people...
they are helping SP & SAP to cover up the truth...
as such they are just as guilty as SP & SAP....
they have thus failed to protect the church and the sheep and instead have aided the "wolves in sheep's clothing," namely Rev. Dr. P& P G, to steal the Lord's money to fuel their own luxurious lifestyle, and excesses.
I thereby call for the resignation of the BOD with immediate effect!
Yes, BOD must resign. They are not doing what they are suppose to do ie protect the welfare and interest God, the church of Jesus Christ and the church members. We have voted them as deacons but they have failed us.
BOD resign, resign, resign!!!!!!!
BOD should be ashamed of themselves!!!
First they came for the socialists,
and I did not speak out
because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me,
and there was no one left
to speak for me.
- Pastor Martin Niemöller (victim of the Nazis)
To "no one left",
Even if SP & BOD were to kick all of us out of the church, God would still reign. He will then send His angels to kick SP & BOD out too.
God is great.
Dear Person from Youth
I too did not hear anything officially about Pam being made a Pastor (yet?). But what I was trying to say was this:
1) The youths need a youth pastor. Whether or not this person is officially called a ‘pastor’ or not does not matter, but more importantly is that this person needs to have a pastor’s heart and be a shepherd to the youths.
2) Pam is regretfully not qualified to be a youth pastor or even a youth ministry leader/head. I personally do not think that her appointment to head the youth ministry is God’s calling.
3) We do not need a ‘facilitator’ for the youth ministry who just sits in the shadows during youth services and takes notes/observes the youths as if you guys are her lab rats that she is trying to study or experiment on. A bit harsh I know but that is how it is looking to be.
Thank you for agreeing with me that the youths do need spiritual backing. How about if I put up a petition entitled ‘We need a youth pastor and not a youth facilitator please’ and hand it to you and you get all the youths to sign on it? I think it will make a much bigger impact if the youths themselves were to make their pleas since this affects all of you. If me or anyone of the adults were to do the same thing, it will probably be ignored by the deacons or pastors (yet again) and put into the paper shredder.
Most frequently used words:
amen, jesus, pray, BOD, SP, spiritual abuse, steal, lies, truth, transparency, governance, intgrity, honesty, sheep, shepherd, scold, beat, care, love, church, calvary, hurt, pain, return, money, wealth, enjoy, anointing, self righteous, ex-staff, calvarytoday, TTG, concern calvarites, supporter, devil, peace, comfort, patient. kind, good, bad, pastors, CIM, account, biz class, class, cry, heal, a disturb, authority, 'wsl', 'peach' AG, need, deliverance light, God,..etc..etc
What about que sera sera, CT?
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