Monday, July 4, 2011

PG turns nasty as usual at AGM

Senior Pastor Prince Guneratnam (PG) had looked forward to a quiet AGM last Monday, 27 June 2011 on the anticipation that none of the 7 Plaintiffs/Concerned Members will show up at the meeting.  He almost had his wish come true until Sister Liza appeared at the AGM.

The 7 concerned members were earlier informed by other members that their names were not on the membership rolls put up on the church notice board. None of 7 also received the usual letter from the church to collect the Annual report and that further confirmed the belief that they had been removed as members. In the late afternoon of the AGM day, another member, who happened to drop by the church, alerted one of the 7 concerned members that all their names have re-appeared on the membership rolls. Hence, the attendance of Sister Liza at the eleventh hour.


1. The AGM proceedings

PG started the meeting with his own house rules. This is a clear deviation from the past where he had always quoted Robert’s Rules for the conduct of the meeting. Robert’s Rules in reality, allows much freedom in expression of opinions, questions and comments during debates on resolutions. However, despite proclaiming to use Robert's Rules in previous AGMs and EGMs, PG has never followed the said rules to the book. Members' rights, especially to speak, are often denied.

He then went on to share his message. He admonished the members to live by faith and walk in the ways of the Lord. He warned them not try to “gain the whole world and lose your soul”. It was ironical, listening to this message. PG needs to embrace the truth of this message much more than the members he was preaching to. It was a case of PG telling the members that there’s a speck in their eyes when there’s log in his (PG) own eye.

The items on the agenda including the appointment of Deacons and Auditors were quickly dealt with, with hardly any questions from the members.


2. The drop in income

Deacon Edward presented the Financial Report and admitted that total income from offerings, tithes and faith promise has been declining since 2008. He alluded this to the challenges and struggles the church has been facing in recent years, avoiding the mention of the church crisis, which is the real cause for the decline in income.

3. The drop in attendance

Deacon Ngeow presented on the church attendance and informed the meeting that the attendance for all the Sunday services have dropped by 13% from 2009 to 2,278 as at end 2010. After discounting the toddlers and babies and taking into account the double counting of the pastoral and church staff and helpers who attends all 3 services, the actual number should be just above 2,000.

It is, therefore, an established fact now that Calvary is no longer the second largest church in Malaysia. FGA remains the largest. SIB, DUMC and possibly Glad Tidings have overtaken Calvary in terms of numbers. Click on the audio clip below to listen:-




4. The Special Resolution

Deacon David Peters presented a special Resolution on the provision for dispute settlement which will be an addition to the Church Constitution. The proposed provision sets out the procedures to resolve conflicts and disputes between the church and the members.

The proposed steps in dispute resolution include negotiations, mediation and arbitration which is exactly ALL the steps the TTG brothers and sisters have undertaken in the last 3 years in their efforts to resolve the crisis in Calvary Church.


David Peters turned comedian where he stated proudly that the Calvary Church Constitution is the most advanced constitution among all the AOG churches in Malaysia!

It is sad indeed that this brother, although a lawyer by profession, does not see that the Calvary Church Constitution is actually the most flawed Constitution among the AOG churches in Malaysia. Click on the audio clip below to listen:-







(Full details of the Resolution will be posted in the next article)


5. The mis-treatment of Sister Liza

After the presentation by David Peters, Sister Liza went forward to express her views on the Resolution. She wanted to explain that the Plaintiffs had, as a matter of fact, attempted and exhausted all avenues of negotiation, mediation and arbitration in trying to resolve the conflict in the church. However, before she could finish speaking, she was abruptly stopped by PG. When she persisted to speak, PG quickly instructed that her microphone be switched off. She was then asked to leave the meeting but she stood her ground and stayed on.

Later, she attempted to voice her objection that the special Resolution was passed without PG making a count of the number of votes in support of the Resolution. This was because such a Resolution which pertains to the Constitution, requires a two-thirds majority before it can be adopted.

PG did not allow her to speak and instead instructed his “bouncers” namely Pastor Susan Tan, Pastor Richard and 2 other leaders to escort her out of the meeting. Sister Liza again refused to leave and was finally left alone.

Listen to PG’s high-handed treatment of Sister Liza in the audio clip below:-






148 comments:

Anonymous said...

I am one of the contributors to the drop in income and attendance. God by His Spirit led me out of CC and moved me and my family to SIB. I saw many Calvarites there too. All said we were blessed here at SIB.

Fr CT2 @ July 5, 2011 12:15 AM

Anonymous said...

PG's mistreatment and verbal abuse of Sis Liza showed his spirit of hate and vengeance. He must have misread, "Love your enemy". Liza is a sister, not an enemy, who happens to disagree with his dictatorial conduct.

Fr CT2 @ July 5, 2011 11:07 AM

Anonymous said...

Dear Calvarites, CC is not the only church in KL. There are many good churches with genuine shepherd's heart Pastors. If ever you feel dry with CC sermons, go and listen to Ps Dr Chew of SIB, Ps Daniel Ho of DUMC, Ps Kenneth of ACTS, Ps Vincent Leoh of Glad Tidings and many others. You will feel at home as many Calvarites are there.

After all, God cares about you and all churches are His Church. HE wants you to fellowship with other brothers and sisters in His Body.

Please choose to be Kingdom mindset believers and not localised ones. He is a big God and His Kingdom is a big one. So, don't limit yourselves and limit God. God bless!

Fr CT2 @ July 5, 2011 12:00 PM

Anonymous said...

I am not a fan of TTG or SP but I am a member of CC.

After listening to the conversation between SP and Liza in AGM, I am sadden to say that the big-bully manner SP displayed (to silent members) was definitely not Christ-like! God's teaching of LOVE disappeared immediately.

Intentionally or not, SP has succeeded in instilling great fear among members intended to speak out that night. Such practice of fear strategy is only good for him but bad for the expansion of God's Kingdom.

It was unbelievable that this happened in our "family' meeting in our own Church. Why should she be chased out when she was trying to bring to the attention of the AGM of her concerned and viewpoints on related matter?

I find CC's current teaching based on "... LOVE YOUR NEIGBHOUR ..." very hollow.

I am actually struggling to go to CC every week.

Fr CT2 @ July 5, 2011 1:38 PM

U GOT 2 GO said...

PG did not behave himself.....
When PG was sacked from Lake Club.
PG GOT TO GO !!!!!

PG did not behave himself.....
When PG was sighted at Sun Complex.
YOU GOT TO GO !!!!!

PG did not behave himself.....
When PG transfered money to CIM.
YOU GOT TO GO !!!!!

PG did not behave himself.....
When PG kept the Tsunami funds.
YOU GOT TO GO !!!!!

PG did not behave himself.....
When PG was raided by IRB.
YOU GOT TO GO !!!!!

PG did not behave himself.....
When PG was fined by INCOME TAX DEPT.
YOU GOT TO GO !!!!!

PG did not behave himself.....
When PG sacked 400 members from CC.
YOU GOT TO GO !!!!!

PG did not behave himself.....
PG DID ALL OF THE ABOVE
PG GOT TO GO !!!!!

LIZA DID BEHAVED HERSELF....
LIZA DID NONE OF THE ABOVE.
LIZA JUST WANTS TRANSPARENCY
AND GOOD GORVERANCE
LIZA MUST NOT GO.

PG GOT TO GO !!!!!

By the way Liza was in Calvary even before PG came in as a pastor.
Her parents were from Jalan Sayor,
the mother church.

Fr CT2 @ July 5, 2011 1:52 PM

TAI KOH said...

The Calvary Church Constitution is the most advanced constitution among all the AOG churches in Malaysia!
......claimed by David Peter.

Then All the AOG churches must learn from Calvary Church.

Then our Federal Goverment must also learn from Calvary church.

Maybe NECF must also consider changing their constitution too.

Or maybe the bar council should give a second thought to review their constitution and consider the most advanced constitution.

All the registered society must also review their constitution and follow the most advanced constitution.

OOOOoooooops then....
the chairman of all the above has the right to :

switch off the mics,
allow only 2 questions,
tell their members to SIT DOWN,
OR
YOU GOT TO GO !!!!!

Fr CT2 @ July 5, 2011 2:53 PM

Anonymous said...

Dear CT2, July 5, 1.38pm

So you see all these happaned right in front of your eyes eh.

What SP does is intentionally. The TAGLINE FOR CALVARY CHURCH, is JUST GIVE YOUR MONIES, (ALL YOU CAN) AND DONT ASK WHAT WE DO WITH THE MONIES AND DONT QUESTION THEM ON ANYTHING. They just want the congregration to behave like a SHEEP. JUST GIVE and continued preaching "GIVE, IF YOU LOVE GOD"

Brother / Sister, I advise you to go to another church and surely YOU will see the difference.

The AGM held on Monday instead of the usual Friday? YOU KNOW WHY?

The next day people need to get back to work, so they will end it fast and DONT WANT ANY QUESTIONS FROM THE FLOOR.

SO BROTHERS AND SISTER, YOU SEE THE REASON WHY.

Anonymous said...

Hey, CT2, July 5, 1.39pm

Previously i also have the feeling struggling to go to Calvary and the more the SP preach, the more i dont agree and he is a real hipocrate. NO POINT GOING. GOD WANT US TO WORSHIP HIM whole heartly. SO LOOK FOR ANOTHER CHURCH that you feel comfortable. When two or three are gather to worship GOD, HE will be in our midst. (no matter where)

Anonymous said...

TO ALL THE 7 PLAINTIFF AND CALVARY TODAY

Frankly, NO POINT GOING TO AGM & EGM WHATSOEVER. WE GET NO WHERE. TAIL HE WIN, HEAD YOU LOSE.

WHY DONT ANY OF YOU CONSIDER PUTTING AN ADVERTISEMENT OR WHAT YOU GUYS DID PREVIOUSLY IN ALL THE MAJOR NEWSPAPER ABOUT HIS ACT. (IS ALL FACTS i.e Sacking 400 members, transferring monies etc) NOW THIS IS THE ONLY WAY TO TREAT SP AND HIS GANG. PUBLISHED TO THE WHOLE MALAYSIA.

Think about this, if this can work.

Anonymous said...

Soaring-High-With-Jesus Golden Eagle:

Sad to read the article above. Not for Lisa. She is one brave petite sister-in-Christ. I salute her again. If only I can attend the AGM , just to stand beside her. I can be proud of myself. I am sad to see not one of those attending the meeting had the courage to speak out, allowing her to say her piece, even if you did not accept her views. Is CC becoming a mute congregation, whose members are pew-seaters. What kind of AGM was this? Is CC a terror organization (not a church) ? Nobody stands and speaks for justice and put an arrogant pastor in his right place?

From CT2 @ July 5, 2011 3:04 PM

Yesterday, Today & Tomorrow said...

I am one of those who had been TOTT-ing since before TOTT was promoted on CT by someone who signed off as TOTT. I was prompted by the Spirit to stop giving to CC.

Looks like PG has learnt well from the Good Book. Though I was entitled to attend the AGM, I had refused to do so. After reading the latest CT post, I am glad I didn't waste my time by attending as I would have just got more disappointed & worked up over PG's antics.

So what do we learn from this latest epsidoe from PG ...............

PG was the SAME yesterday, is the SAME today & will be the SAME tomorrow.

So to those who still stay in CC praying to God to change PG, be informed that PG has already changed from worshipping God to worshipping himself, he is NOT the same PG as that in the earlier years. Somewhere along the way, he has LOST it.

Fr CT2 @ July 5, 2011 6:25 PM

Anonymous said...

This David Peters is not a comedian but a joke. He dared to say CC Constitution is the most advanced constitution among the AOG churches in Malaysia.

Coming from a lawyer and a deacon, he showed his true color - shallow and brainless, not fit to be a lawyer or deacon.

Is he trying to say that this constitution is most advanced in sacking deacon as member accusing him of "walk disorderly AND depart from the stated Tenets of Faith AND are unrepentent of unscriptural conduct". It's most absurd and totally unChristian for BOD incl SP & David Peters to declare Dr Lum guilty of these.

Is he trying to say this constitution is most advanced in being able to sack 400 members using an old clause in 1985 and ignoring the present clause. The constitution is so powerful and advanced that BOD dared to use an obsolete clause to sack members.

Is he trying to say this constitution is most advanced in making a SP head of everything..BOD, Nomination Committee, Missions Committee and all sub-sub committees. It is advanced because all (incl David Peters himself) are made subservient to SP.

Is he trying to say this constitution is most advanced in SP most authoritative and BOD most powerful in making policies and shifting funds?

Is he trying to say this constitution is most advanced that when there is church conflict, this constitution is more advanced and powerful compared to the bible?

But, I dare say that, as Constitutional Review Chairman, you are only good at tightening the constitution to more than advance and make it shutting the mouth of members with your latest amendment to the consitution.

Fr CT2 @ July 5, 2011 9:21 PM

Christian Truth Commission said...

The integrity and truithfulness of Christians Leaders are questionable with the current style of leaderships by PG and AOG gang!

We need Truth commission to be setup with objectives to have an effective standard constitutions nearest to Bible based so that churches are of the standard like a public companies where accounts and activities are transparent with credibility.

The TTG group should look into these and not to rely to much on other Christian org like NECF etc. Those groups are not aggressive enough because they are well feed. Revolutions are started by hungry people not only for food but to pursue for near perfect ideology. If it need to go to the highest political level to enforce it, it must be done to that level.

My observations now after the CC saga,I am extra careful with pastors preachings and will pray for decerning.

Hope to get some responses from you all.

Anonymous said...

Behold I am coming soon.
Are all the candles lit!
Is there enough oil to keep them lit!

MORNING STAR.

Fr CT2 @ July 5, 2011 11:37 PM

Anonymous said...

In the recent AGM, I learned that preacher does not necessarily practise what he preaches.

"Love your neighbour" is mere slogan to him.

Fr CT2 @ July 6, 2011 1:37 AM

Anonymous said...

Our church's constitution is about 30 years old.

If David Peters thinks that it is the most advanced, then he is easily 30 years behind time.

Fr CT2 @ July 6, 2011 1:39 AM

Anonymous said...

IF JESUS CHRIST WERE TO WALK ON THIS EARTH TODAY AND COME TO CC TO REBUKE SP, HIS PASTORS & BOD FOR THEIR SPIRITUAL SINS & CALLED THEM "YE HYPOCRITES", I AM SURE THEY WOULD FAILED TO RECOGNISE THE LORD AND WOULD REJECT HIM AS FAKE. BUT IF SATAN COMES AS AN "ANGEL OF LIGHT" DISGUISING HIMSELF AS "JESUS" AND COMMENDED THEM FOR WHAT THEY HAVE DONE TO CHURCH MEMBERS, THEY WOULD SURELY WELCOME HIM AS THEIR "LORD".

Fr CT2 @ July 6, 2011 9:53 AM

Anonymous said...

Indeed very sad that nothing's changed despite all that has happened and the person's heart and attitude remains unchanged. No regrets for me and my family to move on to another church because we have adapted well and though the new church is big, we're serving in the different ministries, attend a new cell group, and found new friends despite having been there for only 6 months. God has been really good to us and found us this new home that we can learn and continue to grow spiritually. No more torment of going to AGMs and bearing the intimidating remarks of abusive pastors. We've found the company of humble leaders and pastors. The church only takes 1 offering every Sunday. We even discover that the Sr P's vision aligns with ours and thus we're able to contribute both money and effort into fulfilling the vision and I'm thankful that it's not in a building. We have been in CC for 10 yrs and we've never had PG ever pray for us personally. Here in this new church, the Sr P ran into us in the hallway, unfamiliar with us, stops to chat with us and even prays for us. And to think this is a mega-church with thousands of members! For those members that are still worshiping in CC, keep the spirit of prayer and thanksgiving and He will guide your heart. He will show you the way - to remain or to leave. If it's the latter, He will always find you a new home, a better home. But I will continue to uphold everyone in CC in prayer. May you find rest in the Lord (Hebrews 4).

Fr CT2 @ July 6, 2011 10:28 AM

Anonymous said...

I solute you, sis Liza.

PG needs people like you to rock them. Please do continue the good work and the more you do it the more 'the real PG' reveal.

I thank God for people like you!

All glory and praise to Him!

Bamboo Conspiracy said...

DISCERNING THE WILL OF GOD (Part 1)

“He made known His ways unto Moses, But his acts unto the children of Israel.” Psalm 103:7

The children of Israel, in the wilderness, witnessed many miracles. They saw the acts of God in ways that few others ever have. (Walking through the Red Sea, fed by Manna etc). Yet it never sank into their hearts to trust God [except for Joshua and Caleb]. Every time they faced a disaster their response was to whine and complain. However, God was faithful, He always helped them, but He was not pleased [Heb. 3:16-19].

Why? Because His children have lost opportunities to grow in faith, like Job, by worshipping in the midst of disaster. Until we progress beyond this level all we will see are the ACTS OF GOD.

But to Moses, God revealed HIS WAYS. The few who see past the ACTS OF GOD will come to SEE THE WAYS OF GOD. Moses and his family faced similar testing but they could see past the ACTS of God to knowing the WAYS of God.

God’s desire is for mature sons & daughters who are willing to pay any price to KNOW GOD INTIMATELY.

Those I serve in the USA are eagerly following the happenings at Calvary Church (CC) because they believe there is a link between CC and the greater purposes of God for Malaysia. Their primary concern is the liberation of Christians in Malaysia and the role of CC in the liberation process. Calvary Today is part of the liberation process.

Malaysian Christians are not free! Many are under spiritual bondage mainly due to the lack of Servant Leadership within the present Church structure. Furthermore, God wants to strengthen His people to prepare them for the coming World shaking events that will test their faith.

See Part 2 below

Vijay

Fr CT2 @ July 6, 2011 2:17 PM

Bamboo Conspiracy said...

DISCERNING THE WILL OF GOD (Part 2)

As Christian can we discern the will of God for Malaysia and stand in faith for the Lord to accomplish His purposes?

I observe three suggestions discussed in the blog re the future of Calvary Church:-

1. Leave and serve in other Churches.

2. Start a New Church.

3. Restore Calvary Church to her greater glory (note - not former but greater glory)

There is nothing in the Bible which says clearly 1, 2 or 3 is right or wrong! Each is acceptable according to our level of faith and calling. But to those who can discern, there is what Paul calls “A MORE EXCELLENT WAY”.

Study Christian history and you will witness there are those who are called of God to stand in the gap for His higher purposes. Such is evident in the lives of George Muller called to start an Orphanage, Hudson Taylor to Inland China, CT Stud/Norman Grubb to the Heart of Africa etc. (They even achieved their mission without soliciting for funds!).

Is it not possible the Lord has indeed called some to take a bold act of faith and stand in the gap for Calvary Church and the greater purpose of God for Malaysia?

This is what some like Liza Low has done. Yes, it will cost our reputation, we may become pariahs (outcast) within the Christian community and friends may distant themselves from us. But we have His smile!

Is it not time for us to declare (not pray) the removal of the present leadership of CC who make a mockery of God’s Church. In fact, in certain extreme circumstances, Jesus did not hesitate to pronounce imprecation upon the enemies of God (e.g. Mark 11:12-14, 20-21).

Martin Luther expressed that we should pray that our enemies become our friends but if not, we should pray that their OWN DOING and DESIGNING FAIL and their PERSONS PERISH rather than the Gospel and the Kingdom of Christ (Refer to “Crying for Justice” by John Day).

I believe this is the excellent way to those called to take the high road. Enter this path only if you are called, otherwise refrain. Can there be anything more glorying to the Lord than to witness the swift judgment of the Lord on those who presently have illegally usurped Calvary Church? God did remove Herod, Saul and many others!

Let us reason:-

1. God is Love and His purpose is NOT for the preservation of SELF but for OTHERS. We are called to serve OTHERS. The grain of must wheat die to produce fruits for others.

2. God will not share His Glory with another. In Isaiah 42:8, we see an example of God’s jealousy over His glory. Instead of giving God the credit, the people “exchanged” the glory of God in favor of the “glory of man.”

There are some of us who strongly believe it is the will of God that:-

1. Calvary Church is one of the fountain head church to bless many Churches in Malaysia and a far.

2. The Lord will judge the present leadership and establish new servant leaders who have a genuine heart for His people.

3. The Lord’s judgment on the present leadership will send a reverberation throughout the Christian community that will glorify His name and strike fear in the hearts of His enemy.

When a missionary serves the Lord, he serves alone in distant places. Often without Christian fellowship and Sermons to feed him. Is it not possible that the Lord has indeed called some to remain in Calvary without the “comfort of fellowship” and “great sermons” to feed you?

Is it not a more excellent way to be fed by the Lord and to enjoy His fellowship by abiding in the place of His calling? Ask any mature Christian and they will tell you the inner revelation of the Holy Spirit and His fellowship is far superior to the many voices of Christian fellowship and the great sermons of pastors!

As long as you are not sure, STAY, because when God speaks He will give you His PEACE to leave, otherwise STAY! God is bigger than any Churches in Malaysia and He will feed you and provide you with the fellowship you need as you ABIDE IN THE PLACE HE HAS CALLED YOU.

Vijay

Fr CT2 @ July 6, 2011 2:19 PM

Anonymous said...

For all the talks of being Christ-like and love thy neighbours, the truth was totally shattered in that very night of AGM when Liza was confronted by the offensive pastor in God's house.

Shocking. And in sharp contrast to Jesus's kindness, gentleness and loving nature.

It is not so much about how intellectual you are, how much you know about the theological knowledge of the bible, and how well you control the deacons, but how much of you that are like Jesus.

Any pastor who can't be as humble as Jesus should not lead.

Leadership by example? Are you serious?

Fr CT2 @ July 6, 2011 3:44 PM

Anonymous said...

WHAT SHALL I DO?

For those members who are still with CC and still wondering whether to stay or find another church, I would like to refer them to the following Biblical verses from the NT which give clear instructions what they should do in these circumstances. Let us always search the Bible (the Word of God) for guidance rather than upon our feelings.

Phil 3:18-19 NLT "For I have told you often before, and I say it again with Tears in my eyes, that there are MANY whose CONDUCT SHOWS they are really Enemies of the Cross of Christ. They are headed for DESTRUCTION. Their god is their Appetite, they Brag about shameful things, and they THINK ONLY ABOUT THIS LIFE HERE ON EARTH."

Romans 16:17-18 NLT “17 And now I make one more appeal, my dear brothers and sisters. Watch out for people who cause divisions and upset people’s faith by teaching things contrary to what you have been taught. Stay away from them. 18 Such people are not serving Christ our Lord; they are serving their own personal interests. By smooth talk and glowing words they deceive innocent people.

Paul in his epistles did not at any time advise the brothers to forgive the culprits but rather to STAY AWAY FROM THEM.

May God give you the strength and the courage to make a correct decision.

Fr CT2 @ July 6, 2011 9:48 PM

Anonymous said...

On FORGIVENESS and REPENTANCE in Romans epistle

I was somewhat surprised to find that Paul in his epistle to the Romans 16, mentioned in Anon posting dd 6 July 2011 9:48 pm, did NOT ask the church there to forgive those who were guilty of such unrighteous acts and instead asked them to STAY AWAY FROM such people.

Jesus had taught us to forgive and Paul himself spoke about Forgiveness and Repentance in:

Romans 4:7 Sins Forgiven
7 “Blessed are those whose transgressions are forgiven,”

Romans 2:4 (NIV) on Repentance
“Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, forbearance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness is intended to lead you to repentance?”

REPENTANCE and FORIVENESS go hand in hand. If one does NOT repent, how can his sins be forgiven?? And if he keeps on sinning, and does not show any intentions to repent, he eventually becomes an UNREPENTANT sinner. Even God would not forgive an unrepentant heart. The one-astrays whom Paul advised the church to avoid were HARDCORE UnrepentAnts and best leave them to their destruction UNLESS they repent. Then everyone will be too happy to forgive them. And true repentance is accompanied by actions to rectify all the mistakes that they had done.

That is what Romans 16:17-18 is all about.

Fr CT2 @ July 7, 2011 11:40 AM

Anonymous said...

Comment on:-
PG did not allow her to speak and instead instructed his “bouncers” namely Pastor Susan Tan, Pastor Richard and 2 other leaders to escort her out of the meeting. Sister Liza again refused to leave and was finally left alone.
...................................
Susan & Richard never had a voice of their own- they were always the "YES, YES" pastors around SP.When Rev Richard came from BCM in the late 80"s he was literally tip toeing aroung the church looking for validation & acceptance. Liza is an old timer from Jln Sayor church. And today Richard can USHER HER OUT OF THE CHURCH?? For a man who put bread on his family table by using members money and sent his children for further education in Australia- all the money came from church members--he ought to have been more decent.He desperately tried to minic SP in terms of dressing and preaching. He is always quick to say even before SP finishes his sentence.

Liza- we love you and salute you for standing up as a loner . You spoke for many of us out there.You dont have to feel bad about the GREAT REV RICHARD YUN- AN AOG PRODUCT- he is nothing but depends on the church for his familys bread and butter-shameless hirelings. Once again Liza- you will always be in our familys prayers!!God bless you.

Fr CT2 @ July 7, 2011 1:33 PM

Anonymous said...

Who knows- the day may come when some police officers will usher SP out of the CC's premises.In Malaysia - anything can happen- after all its nicknamed' Bolehland".Datuk Anwar is just one example.

Fr CT2 @ July 7, 2011 1:37 PM

Anonymous said...

RESPONSE TO :-
The items on the agenda including the appointment of Deacons and Auditors were quickly dealt with, with hardly any questions from the members.
.................................

DEFINITELY SOMETHING IS DREADFULL WRONG WITH THE ABOVE SITUATION-SP HAS SUCCESSFULLY PULLED THE WOOL OVER THE MEMBERS EYES YET AGAIN.THE SLICKSTER IS AT WORK AGAIN AND SMOOTHER THAN EVER.

Fr CT2 @ July 7, 2011 3:06 PM

Anonymous said...

Sister Liza was literally shown the door by SP. All Christians kindly take note of their recent bahaviour- These AOG Pastors- when they first come to church as new pastors- they are just so full of meekness and humility. Within a few years - they somehow get full control of the church ... somehow ....and then they show their other side.

Our Pastor is the main man in the church- the rest are all the Presidents "Yes Men".When he first came a pastor he was as meek as a mouse... now he rages like a tiger with his "submit to leadership" crap.Quite a few have left the church- but he could not be bothered. What matters to him are contributing members(financially).

I say again- dont be swayed by their spiritual talk- look at their deeds and you wont be conned and fleeced by these religious devils controlling the church pulpit.

GOSPEL OF MATTHEW
The scribes and Pharisees are sitting in Moses seat...therefore do whgat they tell you to do but do not behave as they do (hypocrisy)

Fr Ct2 @ July 7, 2011 4:51 PM

Anonymous said...

response to
David Peters turned comedian where he stated proudly that the Calvary Church Constitution is the most advanced constitution among all the AOG churches in Malaysia!
..................................
How could you possibly disagree with David? Which Constitution in the country allows a Pastor to singlehandedly axe 400 people, turn off the microphone when members are asking questions, asks his men to throw out disagreeing members,removes their names from the members list, refuses to go on mediation, and then accuse TTG of not going to mediation and finally is on the church payroll for life!!!

DAVID PETERS IS ABSOLUTELY RIGHT-CC'S CONSTITUTION IS SO ADVANCED- TO THE VERY HEIGHTS OF STUPIDITY!!!

PROBABLY HAS RECEIVED SOME BUSINESS FROM CHURCH MEMBERS AND POSSIBLY THE PASTORS.HE SHOULD STOP PRETENDING TO BE A GODLY MAN..

Fr CT2 @ July 7, 2011 4:58 PM

Anonymous said...

http://www.malaysia-today.net/mtcolumns/special-reports/41771-christian-response-towards-bersih-and-eo

You will see the similarity of what CC has done with the vast majority of members. I really salute Liza and the host of others who speak against malpractices in CC.

Fr CT2 @ July 7, 2011 5:32 PM

Anonymous said...

Our love and symphathies with Liza- just imagine the humiliation of being shown the door for asking questions about the church matters. By the way, Liza is no new comer- she was there even before SP arrived at CC's doorsteps.This is the trait of AOG ministers- they come aroound humbly and within a few years-- they are in complete control ansd can show others the door.

Fr CT2 @ July 7, 2011 5:40 PM

Anonymous said...

Gunaretnam, Susan & Richard, I call you by your names as you do not deserved to be addressed as pastors. By your actions,you are the ones who are wrong and misbehaved not Sister Liza. You stopped & deprived her right to speak and also deprived the congregation their right to hear her out. You order your "lieutenants" in Susan & Richard who have no decent feelings for a lady and willingly obeyed your wicked orders to force her out of the meeting. Yet you fellas can go preaching on "Love Thy Neighbour" when you don't even show your love for one another at all. Where is the "Love of Christ" in your hearts?

Fr CT2 @ July 7, 2011 7:02 PM

Anonymous said...

My dear Brothers & Sisters in Christ,

I have refrained from commenting for quite some time but now I feel compeled to say something.

I am astonished that with all these things happening, CC can still retain attendance of over 2000 members in their weekly services.

This clearly proved that 85% of the congregation will never change and will worship PG & family forever. They will forever "look but never see; hear but never listen".....therefore, they truly deserves the kind of pastor and leadership plus the way they are being treated or mistreated by PG & Co. CC crisis has been going on for more than 2 years and if these people are still blind to fact and reality, they are indeed beyond redemption and deserves to be continuously bullied by PG.

I have refrained from using any foul language but I am not sure whether CT will ever publish this comment because many of my earlier comments has been deleted. So much for TTG too!

PLim

Anonymous said...

David Peter mentioned in the AGM that the church consititution is the MOST ADVANCE consititution among all the churches in Malaysia.

I DO AGREE, MOST ADVANCED IN MANIPULATING and TWISTING ACCORDING TO THEIR ACT. OF COURSE MOST ADVANCE, WE NEVER EVER THOUGHT OF IT and WHICH CHURCH HAVE THAT???

AGREE MEMBERS OF CALVARY TODAY?

Anonymous said...

Hi all brothers and sisters

Yes, i do agree to pray about it before leaving Calvary. But the most important thing if you MUST THE PEACE of JESUS CHRIST that surpasses all HUMAN understanding to be with you.

For me, i dont felt the PEACE especailly after all these happaned and having hiprocrate leaders. So IS TIME TO LEAVE.

Anonymous said...

How can any one be called pastor if he or she is not Christ-like. How is he or she going to preach?

It is a simple test. So don't go around fooling by preaching complicated theology.

Fr CT2 @ July 8, 2011 12:25 AM

Suomy Nona said...

We need spiritual fruits to grow as a Christian. So SP, if you are reading this please preach the way you preached when you first came out to preach as a young pastor.

I think Associate Pastors and church workers are tring to be faithful to this church and to their boss's instructions. Please be merciful to them and pray for them as they have families too and their lives are about this church.

How can this church forgive & forget and move on?

God, please forgive me.

Fr CT2 @ July 8, 2011 5:00 AM

Anonymous said...

The world is yearning for social justice in their respective countries and demanding the removal of dictators and corrupt leaders and deliverance from oppression from their autocratic rulers and governments that have caused its people hardships.

From the many grievances posted in CT, we see this is also a phenomenon that is now common (unfortunately) in most AOG churches but fortunately not in all of them.

What CC and churches in similar situations need is DELIVERANCE from oppressors. We need to continue to uphold CC before God and ask for His divine intervention according to His Will for CC to be done. What God will do, I really do not know but we trust Him because our God is JUST – Amen.

Fr CT2 @ July 8, 2011 11:05 AM

Anonymous said...

AN OLD MANS VIEW- a response to
Gunaretnam, Susan & Richard, I call you by your names as you do not deserved to be addressed as pastors.
...............................
The reason these church devils intimidate others is because members have themselves put these salaried and high titled preachers on a pedestal.This is one area humans will never change- we have always gathered around a king,queen, dalai lama, mahaguru.. and the church is no different.

If the following is a practice in your church- then probably you belong in a cult- although members may not be aware.

1. The Pastors salary is shrouded in mystery.( a hush, hush kind of thing)

2. You never question the Pastor ( only he has the right to question you)

3.He goes preaching overseas but the church pays for it(the love offerings from these preaching engagements is also hush, hush)
4. Missions is also given an extended meaning- meaning most of the money will "boomerang" back to the church.
5. The Pastor does not need to observe office hours- he is free to come and go as he likes.

6.Never shares his struggles- gives the impression that he is "above it all"(first class AOG crap!!)

7.God is always speaking to him- observe his face and the tenor of his voice when he says that.

8.Has a personal interest in who is dating who in the church-

These are some of the signs I saw in my own Pastor.Personally i never believed he was as humble as he sounds.

Anyway he did not last long...a member bumped into him at Sun Complex around midnight.( Claimed he was there to full " the Great Commission... witnessing)

The Board did not buy the story.Neither did 6 months of paid leave help.

He protests his innocence until this day- he is an itenerant minister now.

Fr CT2 @ July 8, 2011 1:14 PM

Anonymous said...

reaching 2000 attendance is not a big deal. With more progressive and responsive management, the church could have reach 5,000 attendance after CC's 30 years, without having to spend RM200m to RM300m for CCC. The key is management style.

A Singapore pastor claimed to have planted 200+ churches in Phillipine. I salute him and may God bless him endlessly. But how many churches has CC planted at the same period? No point big talk among themselves. Show report card.

Fr CT2 @ July 8, 2011 4:09 PM

Anonymous said...

LAYMAN:-
Anyway he did not last long...a member bumped into him at Sun Complex around midnight.(Claimed he was there to full " the Great Commission... witnessing)
...................................
Our Office Staff follow this blog( we go to different churches) and all of us had a big hearty laugh reading the above.
One should not judge others...but the reason the pastor gave is just so hilarious!!Poor Chap. Fulfilling the Great Commission at midnight at Sun Complex?!! Heeee..He.He..The whole office roared with laughter until the Manager came rushing out to find out what was the commotion about!!( We got a stern rebuke after that and all the staff rushed helter skelter back to their work tables)But the hushed giggling didnt stop after that.

This is part of Pastors mentality.. they tend to think that the congregation is downright stupid. Has it occurred to you that he may have been there to fulfill the Great Commission for a long time and still carried on preaching in church? My colleagues believe that this is just the tip of the iceberg and I believe them.

(We know there is a rumour that SP was sighted at Sun Complex. But uptodate there is not a witness that has come foward)

Selamat Berjuang- TGG- everyone at our office send their regards & love.All our hugs & special love for Sis Liza.

Fr CT2 @ July 8, 2011 5:28 PM

Anonymous said...

The most important thing for SP and CC to do right now is to restore and welcome all those whom he chased out of CC.Just standing up there in an expensive suit and shiny shoes at this time to preach very Sunday and still chasing out members from the church is in my opinion- plainly carnal- AND STUPID.

CC should not have treated Sis Liza in that despicable manner.SP and AP are all backslidden and are there just for their fat salary and perks - I suppose.

Richard Yun- you have just lost the respect of me and my family.Showing a senior member of the church the door.We just heard the tape how she was shouted at and humiliated before the whole church .No Christian deserves to be humiliated like that.SP-sometime in your lifetime- you will pay for humiliating another sister. Remember it is written-_ "God shows no favouritism" and your lofty tiles of Dr. Rev Dato Tan Sri is not going to impress God one little bit.

SP and gang are behaving as though CC is their personal property and inheritance.Praise God that Sis Liza stood up to these backslidden devils!! God bless you Sis. Liza.

Fr CT2 @ July 8, 2011 5:44 PM

Anonymous said...

The Ghana High Commissioner has expressed grave concerned over the sort of services quack pastors are providing for Ghanaians in the UK.
.................................
Most of the AOG Pastors are quack. Some are doign Gods will but I think the rest have just fallen into a rut and keep the church going for whatever sake. My own Pastor is just one miserable lost man.

Fr CT2 @ July 8, 2011 5:53 PM

Anonymous said...

Five Ways To Identify Fake Pastors
« on: February 23, 2010, 12:34 PM »
1.A PASTOR THAT DOES NOT TALK ABOUT SIN BUT WRAPS HIS MESSAGE ALWAYS ON GIVING WHICH IN HIS OPINION WILL RESULT IN HAPPINESS,JOY AND SAYS GOD IS ALWAYS MERCIFUL TO FORGIVE SINNERS.

2.A PASTOR THAT 99% OF HIS MESSAGES ARE ABOUT THINGS OF THE WORLD-TO BUILT A BIG CHURCH TO OUITCLASS OTHER CHURCHES,MANSIONS,CARS E.T.C.IF HE WANTS TO GIVE TESTIMONY ABOUT PROOF OF HIS MINISTRY,IT IS ABOUT BUILDING THE BIGGEST CHURCH,THE LATEST CARS,HOUSES,CLOTHES OR PLACES HE HAS VISITED.

3.A PASTOR THAT DOES NOT TALK ABOUT HEAVEN AND DOESN'T DIRECT PEOPLES HEART TO GOD AND ONLY PREACHES GOD AS A FATHER CHRISTMAS.HIS MESSAGE IS ONLY ON WHAT GOD CAN DO FOR YOU AND NOT YOUR OWN RESPONSIBLITY TO GOD.HE DOESN'T TELL YOU TO REPENT AND GET OUT OF YOUR UNGODLINESS AND DO WHAT IS RIGHT.

4.A PASTOR WHOSE EVERY SERMON ENDS IN OFFERING AND RAISING MONEY.

5.A PASTOR WHOSE MEMBERS LIVE VERY UNRIGHTEOUS & RICH LIVES IN PRIVATE AND IN PUBLIC.

BY FRANCIS AKIN JOHN.

Fr CT2 @ July 8, 2011 6:08 PM

Anonymous said...

God sent His instrument like Liza Low to reveal the true color of PG.

Where is the fruit of the Spirit in him? To know a true Christian leader is to see the fruit of the Spirit in him.

He hids himself in ivory tower, doesn't fellowship with others but dispenses instructions through his stooges. Sad, you may say it's my perception. But, it's more a manifestation. I always hope I was wrong. But, the sensing of who he is just can't go away - character and behavior just opposite of Christ!

Fr CT2 @ July 8, 2011 6:53 PM

Anonymous said...

To the deacons,

Can Calvary Church which sacked 400+ of its long time believers without even calling for a hearing continue to preach Christ's love and "love your neighbor" in its Sunday worships?

Are these believers worst than the sinners mentioned in the Bible that can't be forgiven?
javascript:void(0)
I find CC's actions and Jesus' teaching a big big contradiction.

Should I believe the church leaders or the Bible teaching?

Now you understand why I drag my feet to the church.

Fr CT2 @ July 8, 2011 11:25 PM

Anonymous said...

RESPONSE TO:-
After listening to the conversation between SP and Liza in AGM, I am sadden to say that the big-bully manner SP displayed (to silent members) was definitely not Christ-like!
.................................
What kind of Pastor would stoop so low as to demean another Christian in full view of other Christians? Definitely something is wrong with him.This is not limited to CC. I have seen personally another Pastor humiliate others too at a Teh Tarik stall.These are the dogs who have forgotten where God picked them up from- As a pig returns to the mire and the dog to his vomit ( Peter)

SP may talk tough within the four walls of "his" church.Why dosent he show the "power" outside the church?You can imagine the kind of response he wil be getting.

Where is the servant leadership in all these?? Its only talk,talk and talk about servanthood and love.. What a facade!!!So disgraceful!!!

Fr CT2 @ July 9, 2011 11:43 AM

Anonymous said...

HEY - YOU GOT TO GIVE CREDIT TO SP FOR COMING TO THIS LEVEL OR POWER.LIKE JESUS HE JUST SAYS THE WORD-ONLY DIFFERENCE IS THAT ITS NOT THE DEMONS WHO ARE THROWN OUT BUT THE BELIEVERS THEMSELVES!! ( he must have fasted 40 days$$) WHEN HE THREW OUT SIS LIZA- THE MEMBERS WERE SILENT. ARE WE TO BLAME THEM? JUST LOOK AT THE AOG LEADERSHIP AND NECF- ARENT THEY SILENT TOO? WHEN YOU GET BULLIED AND DISRESPECTED IN GODS HOUSE- ITS TIME TO GO.SP IS A RELIGIOUS AOG DEMON RIGHT NOW.I WOULD NOT GO ANYWHERE NEAR HIM.JUST HEARING HIM PREACH PUKES MY WHOLE FAMILY.HE HAS BECOME A LIAR OF SORTS.
" WE ARE A PEOPLE OF DESTINY" SP RECENT QUOTES.? REV. JIM JONES USED THE SAME LINE ON HIS CONGREGATION TOO - AND LATER URGED ALL OF THEM TO DRINK POISON-- WHICH THE CHURCH PROMPTLY OBEYED.I TELL YOU MAN- THIS MAN IS A RELIGIOUS DEMON RIGHT NOW AND ONE SHOULD BE WARY OF HIM. JUST MY FAMILY'S OPINION-NO APOLOGIES TO ANYONE.

LEAVE THEM ALONE- THEY ARE BLIND LEADERS OF THE BLIND.-JESUS

Fr Ct2 @ July 9, 2011 11:52 AM

Anonymous said...

Its never a right thing to humilate anyone in public- Christian or non- Christian.Sis. Liza has been bruised in Gods house by a so called man of God.To me he is a carnal AOG idiot.Poor thing Liza- It will take some time for her to recover.Imagine getting shouted at like that.Maybe he is under the control of unclean demons right now.Pastors who behave like this need to be rebuked or reprimanded but who can do it? They control the pulpit, the church pays them,it is their turf, their house.Whatever they say goes.
Sis. Liza- cheer up. They are many believers out here who love you and always welcome you.Dont let one backslidden Pastor keep you away from church.REMEMBER- THERE ARE MANY CHURCHES WHO WOULD WARMLY WELCOME YOU.What a disgraceful testimony coming from a pastor. I am just so angry reading how she was treated.SP- MY FAMILY'S WORD TO YOU IS THIS-REPENT- stop pretending to be godly. We know for certain you are not.You can fool the church and the world, but you just cant pull the wool over our eyes.
DISGUSTED

Fr Ct2 @ July 9, 2011 12:01 PM

Anonymous said...

What give him the right to treat another believer like that? Who gave him the power??And the pathetic lawyer. Peter has the audacity to say that CC's constitution is the most advanced??
Can axe 400 and still not be accountable? Sack Dr. Lum and the constitution says okay? The biggest protection for SP is not God but the Constitution.Is there a provision in it for SP's removal? I bet not, right??
This are the works of a brainy conman ..slowly coming to light.It appears that the only thing most protected is SP himself!!!! He can do anything and get away with it!!!
I salute you SP and family. Well done!!Well done indeed!!!

Fr CT2 @ July 9, 2011 12:07 PM

Anonymous said...

Can anyone who knows Sis. Liza please call her to comfort her. Please reach out to her if you are able to contact her.Christians must not forsake others even if they are treated badly by church leaders.How shameful of SP- showing your power to a lady like that. Would you like any of your family members to be treated like that?? Ooops!! Sorry (Shoudnt have said that!!)

Christiann everywhere--There is no need to fear this money and title loving backslidden pastor.I will return his own statement he made in church at CC-SP- YOU CAN GO AND JUMP IN THE LAKE!!!

Fr CT2 @ July 9, 2011 12:13 PM

Anonymous said...

A Pastor is supposed to uplift other and gently correct others if something is wrong. If a pastor humiliates others....you can imagine a black sinister shadow standing right behind him...the pastor has hidden issues.

Fr CT2 @ July 9, 2011 12:27 PM

Anonymous said...

Comment on:-
PG turns nasty as usual at AGM
.................................
What else is new?? I dont think we are in a position to do anything.Come on man1 he has the power to axe 400. The Court Case went nowhere.You think we are deling with a simple pastor. Just look at the titles heaped upon him!!! Which other AOG pastor has ascended to this level??He is the modern day Ananias- who transformed Gods temple "into a house of merchandise"

Swallow the bitter pill and go home. Even the AOG leaders dare not raise their voice against him. Have you not noticed?

Fr CT2 @ July 9, 2011 12:39 PM

Anonymous said...

the board of deacons may have the power to axe 1 member based on good ground, but to axe 400+ members in one go without any announced reasons, domestic enquiry and EGM demand serious investigation on abuse power by the board of deacons. What kind of sins these axed-members had committed that couldn't be forgiven by God? CC belongs to all the members not exclusive to the deacons.

it is terribly wrong with the church constitution. Remember the old saying: absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Fr CT2 @ July 9, 2011 6:23 PM

Anonymous said...

What happened to Sister Liza must have been well planned by PG & gang to be carried out during the meeting. I would like to ask you all, 'On whose authority was this plan been carried out?' Would you dare to say it was doned on God's authority. Remember, you all who proclaimed to serve God are under oath upon the Bible to serve Him with justice and live by His Authority and Power. Instead you all failed to abide by these biblical principles and have committed injustice in the eyes of the Lord and you need repentance!

Fr CT2 @ July 9, 2011 11:30 PM

Anonymous said...

Anon: Fr CT2 @ July 9, 2011 11:30 PM,

"What happened to Sister Liza must have been well planned by PG & gang to be carried out during the meeting."

Hahaha...you are wrong! This is not as they have plan. It backfired. They never thought Sis Liza or any of the 7 will turned up as the listing was change/switch at the last minutes to include them in.

If it's planned, they would have responded accordingly.Anything that is unplanned will produce an unexpected outcome. The stupidity in action by re-acting to issue.

This shows if the people are spirit filled with wisdom or has the spirit of God left them.

You can see from the outcome. But what amazes me is.... why are there NO ONE dare to stand up for this petite lady who stands for the truth on behalf of CC by walking up to PG, look at his demonic eyes and tell him at his face that what he is doing is wrong!

You need to 'Bersih' CC!

Carma Pastors said...

The whole reason is that the pastors of CC are known as Carma Pastors-Cari Makan Pastors! The rest of the members they are only selfish in themselves. They only care of their personal survival because they thought that by going against the Carma Pastors especially the SP they will not able to cari makan! It is fact.

If in the very beginning everyone had standup like the citizen that participate in the Bersih Rally, long ago the Carma Pastors will be out. All those who are left behind now in Calvary Church have no spines!

There are even members that claimed that they paid theater fees every Sunday!

Exodus group said...

I am one of the 400 axed. Believe it or not, some of those still sticking to CC have commented that we left them in a lurch after unravelling the non-transparency, non-good governance and non-truth practised by CC paid-workers - sorry lah, they are workers, not pastors because they are no longer that.

When Liza was there to speak for their cause as they put it, they were timid as mice - a general should not be left to fight alone, she needs soldiers.

Lost cause - no!!! Those who stay must learn to defend their rights - rise up and become Gideons. You who chose to stay in CC must take over.

PG is answerable to you because u choose to stay

Anonymous said...

PG next trick to get $$$ for his "serpent head" convention centre. Pls read the attached email which I received yesterday.

Dear CCC Partner,

We are pleased to inform you that the Calvary International Golf Fellowship (CIGF) will be held on 5th to 8th October, 2011 in support of the CCC Building Fund.

The CIGF is targeted at Christian golfers and their spouses and buddies from around the world:

· To offer a unique spiritual rejuvenation experience through worship, ministry of His Word & powerful testimonies, enjoyable golfing and uplifting fellowship.

· To remind one another of our Purpose as commanded in Matthew 28:19-20.

· To encourage partnerships with us to complete the largest Christian facility in Malaysia.

Our Senior Pastor, Rev. Tan Sri Prince Guneratnam, and Rev. Richard Roberts, Chairman, Oral Roberts Evangelistic Association, will both minister the Word of God on the theme of “Abundant Living”.



Golfers will play at the Royal Selangor Golf Club and The Mines Resort Golf Club. Non-golfers can also participate in the CIGF through flexible options.

We would like to invite you to:

· VISIT the www.calvaryigf.com website to gain a better understanding of this event,

· PRAY with us as we look to the Lord to make the CIGF a success (Zech 4:6) and

· SHARE about the CIGF with your friends from Malaysia and around the world, via email or Facebook.

Above all, we welcome your participation and support for the CIGF.

Thank you and God bless!

Daniel Teng

Chairman

Calvary International Golf Committee

Anonymous said...

God has given Sister Liza the spirit of boldness to confront unrighteousness, injustice and falsehood. Yet the proud would not listen. Instead they ridiculed and abused her. God shall judge and punish.

Fr CT2 @ July 10, 2011 10:14 PM

Anonymous said...

Slowly but Surely the End is Near for PG. The whole Malaysian Churches know of his misdeeds already and the net is closing in... No turning back for him but to thinking of Plan B..

Fr CT2 @ July 11, 2011 2:50 PM

Anonymous said...

ACTS BEYOND REDEMPTION

The bullying actions of the rogue leader and his underlings against Sis Liza during the recent AGM should not be condoned, not be encouraged, not be supported by practising Christians. it is a crying shame that such act of hatred could be exhibited by the SP, in the House of God, against a fellow Chrtistian sister, who was trying her best, in her soft spoken voice, during the AGM, to highlight the need for credibility, accountability and transparency within rhe church administration.

On the other hand, the SP raised his voice against her, demanded she shut up, repeatedly interrupted her speech. he even ordered the power to the microphone be cut off by his AV personnel, so that the rest of the church attendants could not make out her statements. He even threatened to remove her from the sanctuary.

Why was the SP behaving so unnaturally ? Why not allow her the freedom to ask questions ? Why interrupt her speech ? Was the SP afraid of something ? Is the truth hurting you ?

We thought long and hard about boycotting the AGM. Very sadly, our anticipation of such horrible acts being "performed" by the rogue leaders and gang during the AGM turned out to be true.

Whatever little remnant respect we had for this SP evaporated after this disgusting episode of bullying a lady in public !

How can a church leader, a socalled AOG international speaker, self professed evangelist, church builder, act so cruelly - in church - against a fellow Christian ?

Simply unthinkable.

We the church know for sure, we do not want, do not need such a sinful leader, setting such horrible example. esp to our kids !

Please resign now. Or we may find the alternative...

Fr CT2 @ July 12, 2011 12:04 AM

The Messenger said...

This message is meant for all the present CC members, staff, Deacons, Asst Pastors and Assoc Pastors. In the past many of you may have thought that doing nothing is ok, after all you are only following the directions of your supposed "God-appointed leader", that is PG. Therefore you have stood still and watched while CC has been plundered, well-meaning members bullied and blatant unjust acts allowed to be carried by PG. Some of you may even have reluctantly contributed to all that under instructions directly or indirectly from PG and family.

Let it be known to all of you now that, beyond any doubt, unGodly acts have been committed by PG, such as lies and half-truths, mistreatment of Christian brothers and sisters, and gross arrogance, among others. (Read the CT articles for more details of the unGodly acts). The Spirit is grieved when well-meaning Christian brothers and sisters are abused by so-called church leadership. The Spirit is grieved even more when supposed Christian brothers and sisters stood by watching the acts and do nothing. On your day of Judgement when you are asked why did you not do anything to defend the abused Christian brothers or sisters, how are you going to reply, what excuses can you give?

You now cannot plead innocence, because this message has been given to you here and now. I am just a Messenger delivering the message. How you reply on your Judgement day is for you to decide here and now.

Praise the Lord!

Fr CT2 @ July 12, 2011 1:12 AM

Anonymous said...

RESPONSE TO Carma Pastor-
CARI MAKAN PASTORS
Half the truth has been exposed.I am a professional and did not want to say this.But the truth needs to be said now by all believers who attend these churches controlled by these abusive so called pastors.Most of the AOG Pastors amount to nothing in the secular world- but in the church they have discovered the power of the pulpit and they think they are a somebody now with their exalted "Rev" titles.Face up to it- nobody was adressed as a "Rev"in the Bible. It is a creation of the protestant movement!There is no Rev.Paul or Rev.Timothy or Rev.Silas in the entire New Testament.

AOG Pastors are deluding the congregation.The moment you say you are a Rev. you are already one step higher than other Christians-or so these AOG pastors think.

And right now there is much spiritual abuse by these backslidden power crazy pastors. Poignantly spoken- they are there just to "Cari Makan" .

Liza should not have been humiliated in church like that.What kind of Pastor is that??She has the right to express her concerns.These AOG Pastors behave as though they own the church and say anything they want.Its time for all believers to stand up to these abuses and send them off for further training on some mission in a jungle somewhere.

SP - you are already in the midst of judgment. How long do you think you can carry on the deception?? Have you returned the tsunami $$??? Cleanse the rot on your own back first before trying to correct others!!!And that goes for all other AOG ministers too!!
Pastors if you are reading this-just a gentle reminder-if you are there just to "cari makan" ask God for a way out and He will lead you elsewhere.

Our symphathies to Liza.She was at CC even before SP arrived meekly.What a turn of events!!What a turn of events!!How did this ever come about??

Fr CT2 @ July 12, 2011 12:40 PM

Anonymous said...

Bersih went to the street because they was no avenue for expression. The AOG churches are just like that.Most of the AOG Pastors are quiet because they disapprove any opposition in the church and quietly hope that TTG will give up.I heard that from my own pastor.His words-"They are just frustrating themselves" from the pulpit last Sunday.
We cant change these pastors- they seem to be a cunning lot and they control the pulpit and seem to be enjoying it.But we can just protect ourselves from their sly running down of other people.

By the way TTG God bless you all.Praise God- for the first time in AOG church history- somebody has dared to stand up and ask for transparency- and I believe it has caused many AOG pastors to be jittery- including this "bad mouth Rev" of our church!!!

Fr CT2 @ July 12, 2011 12:49 PM

Anonymous said...

Sis Liza- we heard the conversation from TTG's blog of what happened.God loves you and and so do all of us at the office. Perhaps you should think about visiting us at SIB , DUMC or GT for a season.SP and the rest of the AOG will never change their spots. They have become a disease in the greater body of Christ.

Throwing people out who disagree with you is out of this world.In fact if you see Animal Planet- this practice belongs to the world of babboons and now it is becoming a practice of AOG churches!! This whole incident sucks!!

The whole of the AOG arre a disgraceful lot.Allthey can do is to stand up and preach and collect their salaries and love offerings.

Fr CT2 @ July 12, 2011 2:49 PM

Anonymous said...

HELLO ALL CHRISTIANS OUT THERE!! IS IT TIME FOR A BERSIH MOVEMENT IN CHURCH??? PERSONALLY I DON'T KNOW LIZA BUT WHOVER HUMILIATED HER HER LIKE THAT IS NOT A PASTOR BUT A SICK ANIMAL IN HUMAN FORM.

SP- GET OFF THE STAGE. FOR ONCE YOU AND YOUR "YES MEN" STOOGES- CARI MAKAN GANG- TELL US THE TRUTH MAN!! AND RESIGN!!

Fr CT2 @ July 12, 2011 2:53 PM

Anonymous said...

SP HAS TURNED INTO A MONSTROUS BULLY.HE IS NO MORE THE PASTOR WE USED TO KNOW.I HAVE SEEN ENOUGH AND BEEN THROUGH ENOUGH WITH THIS SORDID CC EPISODE. PROBABLY COULD BE MADE INTO A DRAMA MINGGU INI.

POWER MUST NEVER BE GIVEN TO A SINGLE PASTOR. TO SECURE THEIR WON POSITION - THEY SURROUND THEMSELVES WITH PEOPLE WITH ISSUES- DIVORCESS AND OTHER STRANGE PROBLEMS.

I AGREE - WE NEED BERSIH MOVEMENT WITHIN THE CHURCH!!!!

Fr CT2 @ July 12, 2011 3:05 PM

Anonymous said...

Pastors- behave yourselves or resign- dont whack people into submission by quoting Bible verses.WE have grown up. So must you!!!

Fr CT2 @ July 12, 2011 3:07 PM

Anonymous said...

re: the Calvary International Golf Fellowship (CIGF) to support CCC Building Fund

Quote: “Our Senior Pastor, Rev. Tan Sri Prince Guneratnam, and Rev. Richard Roberts, Chairman, Oral Roberts Evangelistic Association, will both minister the Word of God on the theme of “Abundant Living”. Unquote (NB: Richard Roberts is the son of Oral Roberts).

While doing a study on the net on False Prophets and Teachers, I came across this website: - http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/fprophets.html

You will find a list of some of our modern-day evangelists who have been classified as such. You will be in for a big surprise.

True or False – it is up to readers to figure it out.

Fr CT2 @ July 12, 2011 9:37 PM

jamesbond700 said...

Dear everybody, if anyone do see PG in any places deem inappropriate, be sun complex or anywhere, please do recording on video better in HD so we know what to do next. quickly notify us here or on facebook, youtube...

Fr CT2 @ July 12, 2011 10:13 PM

Anonymous said...

1 John 3: “ 7 Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. The one who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. 8 The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work. 9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God. 10 This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister.”

If pastors, associate pastors and deacons can quote scriptures to justify themselves, I can also quote APPROPRIATE bible verses to support whatever statements that were made in CT against ALL UNRIGHTEOUS ACTS done by them.

Scriptural-Minded Also

Fr CT2 @ July 13, 2011 8:05 AM

Anonymous said...

IMHO Worth your time reading.
http://www.outofur.com/archives/2011/07/pastoral_author.html#more

Anonymous said...

re: Identifying False Prophets and False Teachers

No matter what big names are given to members to impress them, please Do a Yahoo Search or a Google Search and type in a question eg “Is so-and-so a false prophet and a false teacher”.

Popped – you will get a list of websites references for you to study.
You can be shocked at what you find.

BE DILIGENT like the Bereans. Don’t accept everything that is preached or taught in a church. They can be (a) lies, (b) non-biblical, (c) quoted out of context, (d) selectively chosen and used for the pastors’ ends and even (e) fleshly thinking.

Check the Bible to verify and make use of the Internet to do your search.

Fr CT2 @ July 13, 2011 10:25 AM

Anonymous said...

RESPONSE TO:-
jamesbond700 said...
Dear everybody, if anyone do see PG in any places deem inappropriate, be sun complex or anywhere, please do recording on video better in HD so we know what to do next. quickly notify us here or on facebook, youtube...
..................................
I don't think SP will be caught anytime now- he is already on "cautious mode" since this blog came about. In fact I think all the other "cari makan" Pastors are lying low for the time being- including a few I know.

Fr CT2 @ July 13, 2011 11:05 AM

Anonymous said...

A Message to all AOG Pastors

You were called to minister Gods Word to Gods people- so don't walk about the land as a whoremonger or a talebearer.Thats not what the church pays you for.Keep your quarrels with other pastors to yourself.Don't talk bad about your "enemies--after all you made them!!If, according to you - another pastor or brother has done some bad deed- pray for them- dont destroy them with your sick AOG mouth.

My two cents worth.

Fr CT2 @ July 13, 2011 11:38 AM

Anonymous said...

The following is a summary I have read in the Website by someone.

AOG is not a democratic organisation. Its an old boys club make up of pastors to support pastors. Money flows through AOG are not openly accountable for its in millions of dollars & offers religious politicians & unscroupulous scoundrels a gold mine. Money being embezzled from church. Spiritual abuse are very common in North America & England by those whose spiritual authority doesn't come from God but is their own invention. Leaders uses religious position to control & dominate members & action to being submission to their authority. Its stupid to simply receive & act upon a spiritual directive because you are "supposed to be submissive or because someone is in authority".

God alone is our Lord & to Him we give account & not to mortal men who is here today & gone tomorrow.

Fr CT2 @ July 13, 2011 11:51 AM

Inspired by Mat 25:34-40 said...

Let the 200+ VM who voted for the RM200mil CCC go play golf together.

I just gave RM5k to an orphanage to support the work of faithful pastors who serve in a small town in M'sia.

I want to hear Jesus say to me one day, "For when I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink.....whatever you did for one of these least of these brothers of mine, you did for me" Mat 25:34-40

Fr CT2 @ July 13, 2011 11:59 AM

Anonymous said...

Thanks for the advice below pal.My church always taught us that we must submit to the leadership teaching.I didt know we are allowed ro check the Bible for ourselves.

BE DILIGENT like the Bereans.
Don’t accept everything that is preached or taught in a church. They can be (a) lies, (b) non-biblical, (c) quoted out of context, (d) selectively chosen and used for the pastors’ ends and even (e) fleshly thinking.

Check the Bible to verify and make use of the Internet to do your search.

Fr CT2 @ July 13, 2011 12:14 PM

Anonymous said...

Calvary International Golf Committee?????

Haaa..ha .hohohoooo...heeheee...


Thanks. I really needed that laugh!! Ha..ha

Fr CT2 @ July 13, 2011 12:26 PM

Anonymous said...

On the other hand, the SP raised his voice against her, demanded she shut up, repeatedly interrupted her speech. he even ordered the power to the microphone be cut off by his AV personnel, so that the rest of the church attendants could not make out her statements. He even threatened to remove her from the sanctuary.
..................................
Sp is out of control- possibly demonized. Parhaps he should go for deliverance somewhere.I heard School of Acts and Station of Life have the ability to discern demons and cast them out.( According to eye witnesses there lots of shouting and screaming during these sessions).

If he decides to go- one things for sure- its not going to be the usual "clap and sing" and then here cometh the offering bag service....

Fr CT2 @ July 13, 2011 12:34 PM

Anonymous said...

This blog has really helped me and my colleagues.We are the backbenchers in different churches.God bless you all out there.We heard the tape where a certain Liza was insulted in the church.Doesnt she have a right to talk in church? Its not fair at all.The pastor can crap for hours and if members talk- they are thrown out?? LIza please come to Sabah- we will love you always!!

Christians should not insult others by shouting at them-one writer has justly asked- would you like it if it was wife who was shouted at???
Who do these pastors think they are? You also "makan gaji" from church- so what is there to shout about?? Pastor Kurang Ajar!!Binatang!!!

Orang2 Sabah

Fr CT2 @ July 13, 2011 12:42 PM

Anonymous said...

I have also read about the Calvary International Golf Fellowship (CIGF) in the website.

Now the church WILL ONLY share the GOSPEL to the RICH. Preferably with GOLF MEMBERSHIP in Royal Selangor Golf Club THAT CAN GIVE.
I really wander now Calvary Church has turn into a PROFIT ORGANISATION.

Not for small flies. Look like they are aiming for expratriate. I think NEXT VACANCY THEY HAVE IN CHURCH is Member Development Manager. He / She responsibilties is with all the MARKETING STRATEGIES TO GET MORE MONIES.Just like the Corporate World, Business Development Manager.

Anonymous said...

I dont think SP should go anywhere near School of ACTS or Station of Life. Right now his action tends to have a corrupting influence --and he will probably be telling the farmers in Sabah to sell their sayur2 and mangoesteens to fiance his CCC...no doubt about that!!Better keep him here at home than to let him loose among simple kampung folks!!!

Fr CT2 @ July 13, 2011 1:28 PM

Anonymous said...

Is CC ever concerned that they just wounded a sister who has been a part of Calvary from the very beginning? This is the real nature of the AOG system. Contribute financially and you are in- ask questions and you are thrown out!!You got the money? You get SPECIAL PASTORAL CARE.

LEY YAU CHEEN? YE-SOO OI LEY!!LEY MOW CHEEN? LEI CHEE KEI SEY-YAH!!!

Fr CT2 @ July 13, 2011 1:40 PM

Anonymous said...

I am an AOG Pastor and I wholeheartedly disagree with the way poor Liza was handled.I handle a reasonably sized congregation.I have encouraged all of our members to follw this blog as we do not want to repeat the same mistakes as we grow as a church.i DONT MIND IF i ALSO KENA HANTAM - AFTER ALL WE(AOG) ASKED FOR IT!!!

I do not have a direct say in finances.We have a capable group of people handling that delicate matter.The church had a Pastor Day for me once but I felt so ridiculous with all the attention and the gifts that I made it clear that I don't want any of it again.(that was 10 years ago)

I do not take the young ladies out for holidays under whatever pretext.I have never agreed with other pastors taking out the young people(who usually happen to be ladies) to outings for a few days anywhere.Definitely not to beaches.. where the ladies appear in bikinis for a swim and THEN the Pastor sings a rhythm in his heart which goes like this "Tempted and tried..... why should it thus...ALL THE DAY LONG? Lord the spirit is willing BUT...BUT... the flesh is so weak!!!" Pastors should stop pretending that we are above this.Just look at our record.Most of the sexual scandals were not committed by bachelors but by married people.This is a fact.

I am a married man and am contented with my wife although will admit that she is not a world class beauty.(Maybe a nose surgery will help)The way to cure bad mouth ministers is to start at the very training ground itself.If guest pastors come into the hall and start commenting on others, its quite natural for students to pick up the trait.

LET THE CC EPISODE BE A LESSON FOR EVERYONE.I PERSONALLY BELIEVE ITS GODS JUDGMENT ON CC AND THE AOG- SEPERATING THE WHEAT AND BURNING THE CHAFF.

Fr CT2 @ July 13, 2011 2:25 PM

Anonymous said...

If pastors, associate pastors and deacons can quote scriptures to justify themselves, I can also quote APPROPRIATE bible verses to support whatever statements that were made in CT against ALL UNRIGHTEOUS ACTS done by them.

Scriptural-Minded Also
...................................
THE ABOVE COMMENT IS PROOF THAT THIS BELIEVER HAS MATURED OVER THE YEARS.I PRAISE GOD FOR YOU.OUR PASTOR USED TO BEAT US INTO SUBMISSION BY NUMEROUS BIBLE VERSES- THEN A SEX SCANDAL HIT HIM- AND THE CURTAINS CAME DOWN.

Fr CT2 @ July 13, 2011 2:29 PM

Anonymous said...

Rev. Richard Roberts is the son of Oral Roberts who was the founder of Oral Roberts University in 1963. Oral Roberts was a pioneering preacher of the prosperity gospel. (PG is a member on the Board of References of ORU.)

In October 2007, Richard Roberts was President of Oral Roberts University until his forced resignation on November 2007. Roberts was named as a defendant in a lawsuit alleging improper use of university funds for political and personal purposes and improper use of university resources.

His present wife is his second wife. He had divorced his first wife.

Fr CT2 @ July 13, 2011 8:37 PM

jamesbond700 said...

someday , they may be caught off guard, pelanduk lupa jerat, tapi jerat tak pernah lupa pelanduk...
so, everybody be extra alert...you are on a winning mission...

Fr CT2 @ July 13, 2011 9:39 PM

Anonymous said...

Further to Anonymous July 13 @ 8:37pm, you can read more about the scandal of Richard Roberts at:

http://hitsusa.com/blog/167/oral-roberts-scandal

Fr CT2 @ July 13, 2011 11:58 PM

Anonymous said...

An Extract from End Times Prophetic Words (dd 23 Feb 2010) on False Prophets and False Teachers

Quote “One by one these people – these FALSE GREEDY SHEPHERDS or the rebellious greedy sinful sons of Eli the priest – are being EXPOSED, NAMED and SHAMED. However, like many people have already commentated, it is hardly news and anyone who opens their eyes even a tiny crack can see the FALSENESS and LAVISH LIFESTYLES of MANY OF TODAY'S CHURCH LEADERS. It should not come as a shock as many of these people brazenly boast about their ill-gotten riches.

Everybody knows that most (not all) famous preachers live like this in their marble clad palaces but they dare not speak up against the status quo. Those ministers of the gospel who don’t live like this (ie lavishly), mostly do not get heard about as they are not ‘successful’ enough in worldly eyes, they refuse to dress up themselves in fancy clothes and they preach a true gospel nobody wants to listen to any more.

The Lord rebuke these greedy shepherds and the hypocrites who support them and dare not speak against them! They bring shame not only on themselves but on the church. To any person who does not know God who reads this, please do not think God is like this. GOD HATES THIS TYPE OF GREED AND HYPOCRISY even more than you do!” Unquote

This is the TRUTH about False Prophets and False Teachers and what a relief to know God hates them more than we do.

So we ask ourselves: “Are our pastors and associate pastors like that?”

And do you want to play golf with them?

EXPOSING FALSE PROPHETS/TEACHERS

Fr CT2 @ July 14, 2011 9:45 AM

Anonymous said...

The Lord knows when our spirits are crushed in prison;
He knows when we are denied the rights He gave us;
When justice is perverted in the Courts,He knows.

Lamentations 3:34

[I believe Judgment has already begun at CC]

Definitely this is a practical lesson for all these so called AOG "Reverends" in the land.

Fr CT2 @ July 14, 2011 11:28 AM

Anonymous said...

I am careful when participating in ridicule of a preacher but when he or she is a fake, I have no reservation. To my knowledge, quite a few are fakes from the AOG. True,there are some genuine pastors who dont serve for filthy lucres sake, but the rest are plainly there for their salaries and their status.

The AOG needs a whole revamp.For once-the Board must not be made up of their cronies which is usully the case with these AOG quacks. The Board must be ELECTED by the church not selected by the Pastor on the basis of "discernment". Secondly the AOG Pastor must not be above the Board.

Right now the whole of the AOG system sucks.Put the Pastor in his place and there wont be another crisis like CC and spiritual abuse like Liza.

Much appreciate this blog. God bless you all.

Fr CT2 @ July 14, 2011 12:57 PM

Anonymous said...

A TIME TO TELL
Most of the sexual scandals were not committed by bachelors but by married people.This is a fact.
................................
The new pastor, who was already married lasted for about a year in our church.He started well and could certainly hold a pulpit and could also sing enchantingly.Then he started fooling around with the church secretary- which he denied vehemently and spoke about disciplining the "accuser" who happened to be a brother in the church.

Now what I am about to reveal may sound like a horrible mischievious allegation but it is the truth.( I fear the judgment of God).He was caught with the church lady by the Jais people around midnight in a Brickfields hotel(Jabatan Agama Islam).

It was a real shock and embarassment to the whole church. If we had only checked his background in the theological school he was trained we could have avoided taking him in.This is s rumour which I cannot confirm or substantiate-that this so-called Pastor used to have some flings in theology school. But that is only a rumour and I would leave it at that.

Mind you- the lady was underage at the time of the incident and she left church and is now working in the secular world.

MAY GOD GRANT THE CHURCH DISCERNMENT.

Fr CT2 @ July 14, 2011 1:14 PM

Anonymous said...

After reading "A TIME TO TELL" I felt so disgusted .Since the lady was underage- there ought to have been a police report made. But my hunch is,like most churches, since this hit the congregation suddenly, the church decides to handle it quietly and move on.Right?

An offence of this nature attracts the "sebat dengan rotan". But as it is, the so called pastor did his damage and moved on.

Another writer here has stated that most of the sex scandals were committed by married people- not bachelors.It is a known fact now that many people get bored with their spouses after a few years of marriage.I guess it takes commitment after that.

I get the feeling the AOG Pastors hate this blog as they have become the main subject matter of discussion. Before any Pastor criticizes this blog, ask the question why this blog was born in the first place.

Fr CT2 @ July 14, 2011 2:27 PM

Anonymous said...

CCC is and never was Gods idea- its entirely SP's ego at work.Getting into this kind of multimillion dollar debt is plain mismanagement and downright stupid to say the least.

And now its about a golf tournament- and this time around a man who was accused of financial impropriaties in his own turf.

SP-in his last years could have preached to the downcast and lost. CC building is already sufficient. Why pour tons of money into a building?

This preacher has become like the prophet Balaam- gripped by madness-finally God had to use a donkeys voice to restrain the prophets madness.

There is a disease in the AOG's house.

Fr CT2 @ July 14, 2011 2:50 PM

REGRETS.......AOG? said...

IF AOG MALAYSIA HAD HANDLED THE CIM
ACCOUNTS AND TAKEN APPROPRIATE ACTIONS, THIS BLOG WOULD BE CLOSED
LONG, LONG TIME AGO.

OR RATHER,

THIS BLOG MAY NOT HAVE BEEN EXISTED!!!

SHAME ON AOG SO CALL COMMITTEE.

Fr CT2 @ July 14, 2011 3:46 PM

Anonymous said...

Does AOG now accept divorce and remarrying? In America they do?

Richard Roberts, president of ORU and Chairman, Oral Roberts Evangelistic Association, will be sharing Abundant Living during the golf event.

Richards divorced his first wife, Patti, in 1979. He then remarried Lindsay who is now his second wife.

Looks like PG is mimicking his American peers condoning divorce when he endorsed the nomination of a divorced and remarried woman as a deaconess in the church's election.

Don't overlook the fact that PG is in the Board of References in ORU.

Fr CT2 @ July 14, 2011 8:14 PM

Anonymous said...

The campus of ORU & the tower and other architectural building are designed in the form of New Age & Masonic symbols. The school logo is an upside down triangle, a symbol of freemasonary.

Similarly CCC is designed like a "cobra head" which links to satanic worship and it seems there is masonic symbol on it. Yet leaders of CC can say CCC is a vision of God.

Fr CT2 @ July 14, 2011 10:48 PM

PG2, U Better Watch Out said...

With reference to earlier Anonymous' comment .......

Looks like PG is mimicking his American peers condoning divorce when he endorsed the nomination of a divorced and remarried woman as a deaconess in the church's election.
-----------------------------------

If that is true then PG2 better watch out, for PG could be having roving eyes & itching for you know what .....

Fr CT2 @ July 14, 2011 10:50 PM

Anonymous said...

On what basis PG demand Lisa to sit down? Is it wrong to ask question?
And why PG does not even answer her question after she sat down?

Very bad pastor. Really really bad!!
Why the general superintendent of AOG, Rev Ong Sek Leang does nothing? Useless. So same with most of the AOG pastors.
It is said that "good son won't join army" (chinese say). So it is the same saying, "good pastor won't join AOG committee", because it is corrupted, money minded, mammon centered.

Fr CT2 @ July 15, 2011 12:15 AM

Anonymous said...

(a)FALSE PROPHETS and (b) FALSE EACHERS

The topics of (a) False Prophets and (b) False Teachers are so important to believers in Jesus and also to non-believers that the words “false prophet(s)” are found 23 times in NIV Old/New Testaments, 28 times in NASB Bible and 36 times in the NLT version.

Whereas the words “false teachers” are found 4 times in NIV, 2 times in KJV, 4 times in NKJV, and 6 times in NLV.

Isn’t that sufficient proof of the importance of these two topics??

Of False Prophets and False Teachers, it is clear that the TOPIC of FALSE PROHETS is greater in significance as one would expect false teachings are a natural outcome from the mouths of false prophets.

False Prophets and False Teachers are two separate issues or characteristics and it is COMMON to find “a self-professed God-anointed” evangelist or pastor to be both a false prophet and a false teacher COMBINED. One such characteristic is bad enough, and when both these features are found in that same “evangelist or pastor” IT SPELLS DISASTER.

Once we discover that any evangelist or pastor belongs to this category, one can expect anything from them – IT IS NOT A SURPRISE to me as these are mentioned in the Bible.

What are their motives – is it truly to glorify the name of Jesus or is it a pretense that on the surface they say it is for Jesus while PRIVATELY it is for their own selfish gains.

In our hearts we know the answer, so let us VOICE IT OUT for the innocents to know.

Scriptural-Minded Also

Fr CT2 @ July 15, 2011 10:52 AM

Anonymous said...

Appointing divorcess is not new in the AOG circle.My church has one too- a so called deaconess.The pastor preaches against drinking, smoking and gambling but hardly anything on divorces.

Maybe the divorcees are appointed because they dont have the "blamessless" character as required in the Scriptures and so they dont have a say in anything in church affairs. You think Pastors are stupid for selecting such people? What kind of impression does it have on the young people in church?

Ours is not a church- its some kind of religious club all centered around the pastor patterened after CC - I suppose.But its safer to KMS.

K.M.S - Keep Mouth Shut

Fr CT2 @ July 15, 2011 11:31 AM

Anonymous said...

SP ordered Liza to shup up and sit down because his father owns the church.Maybe he should remind himself that the expensive shoes and the suit he wears all come from members contributions- and all the "Yes,yes men" AP Pastors take note too.

CC - has become a "Curi Curi" church.

Fr CT2 @ July 15, 2011 11:36 AM

Anonymous said...

RESPONSE TO:-On what basis PG demand Lisa to sit down? Is it wrong to ask question?
And why PG does not even answer her question after she sat down?
.................................
NO- YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO ASK ANY QUESTIONS - JUST HAND OVER YOUR $$ FAITHFULLY, THEN STUP UP AND SIT DOWN/- PERIOD.

IF LIZA IS A MILLIONAIRE MAYBE SHE WILL BE TREATED DIFFERENTLY..

Fr CT2 @ July 15, 2011 11:38 AM

Anonymous said...

On what basis PG demand Lisa to sit down? Is it wrong to ask question?
...................................
The basis is-in the AOG circle all the power is centered around the pastor and his cronies. They usually" appear righteous unto men..."

Its all about money- lah...thats the bottom line.

Fr Ct2 @ July 15, 2011 11:41 AM

Anonymous said...

My pastor seems to be a bit edgy these days. The other day he pried whether I visit this blog.I said "Of course"The other members were getting edgy because all visit this blog.

His stern words- Dont buy the stories there.Its satans works.

Yeah- everything out there is godless except himself- the sinless lamb walking about earth.He should be in his office doing his work instead of sitting aroud here.

Fr CT2 @ July 15, 2011 11:53 AM

Anonymous said...

TTG and all out there- we here at the office want to appreciate this blog for highlighting many issues.Many pastors have gone quiet these days and many are angry hitting out at TTG from the pulpits.

God bless you all.

Fr CT2 @ July 15, 2011 12:30 PM

Anonymous said...

Thank God the AOG is not running the country- otherwise everybody will get the treatment like Liza.Can you imagine SP sitting in Parliament and the oppositon is asking pointed questions? Their mikes get turned off or they are escorted out by the police...sorry...escorted out by Richard Yun in police uniform.Only difference he carries a long baton now.

Sis.Liza- all our greetings to you from all of us here. God bless you all an expose the devils.

Fr Ct2 @ July 15, 2011 12:47 PM

Anonymous said...

Then why none of its pastors attending the PASTORS SUMMIT 2011 on 5-6 July 2011?

Because they are no more the distinguised "class" of AOG Pastors. Instead people look at them funnily these days.Maybe SP should read Jim Bakers book " I was wrong"- but with his ego- I doubt it will do any good.

My symphathies to all the AP's- the jokers around him. They have lost all the respectability.They have been expsoed as the "cari makan " pastors- just stay on for their salaries and perks.And Calvaryland has been exposed for what it is- Bodohland!!!

Fr CT2 @ July 15, 2011 1:11 PM

Anonymous said...

The 7 concerned members were earlier informed by other members that their names were not on the membership rolls put up on the church notice board. None of 7 also received the usual letter from the church to collect the Annual report and that further confirmed the belief that they had been removed as members. In the late afternoon of the AGM day, another member, who happened to drop by the church, alerted one of the 7 concerned members that all their names have re-appeared on the membership rolls. Hence, the attendance of Sister Liza at the eleventh hour.
...............................
The above antics by sp is downright unprofessional.Names appearing on the list at the last moment.Is there really nobody in the body of Christ who can call these people to account?Steven Kum, Richard Yun and Peter Ong and the rest of " The Presidents Yes Men"- how can all of you behave like this?

All of you need to step down immediately and indefinitely. The present leadership has smeared itself with lies and deceit.But what will you do in the end??

Fr CT2 @ July 15, 2011 2:02 PM

Anonymous said...

A TRIBUTE TO SP AND GANG.
The Ringgit is my Shephard,there always seems to be insufficient.

He maketh me to devise conniving ways to raise money,[the latest is golf]

He maketh me dream of a super complex and leadeth me to crazy architects

This vision rages on in my soul.

Yes,though I walk through the valley of Court cases and hefty bank loans with high interest, I shalt not fear,
For I knowneth the sheep are dumb
And the Church Constitution protects me- I shalt never be moved.

The Ringgit,its power and the complex I am building- it mesmerizes me.

Surely a bad conscience and sleepless nights will follow me all the days of my remaining life.

And I shall dwell in the house of Debt forver and ever.

Fr CT2 @ July 15, 2011 2:51 PM

Anonymous said...

RESPONSE TO:-
Does AOG now accept divorce and remarrying? In America they do?
...................................

In theory they wont accept - their constitution says so- but in practice they elect divorcees as church leaders. Its obvious they accept divorcees- but you must have some dough with you.($$$) If you have that they will find a Bible verse to justify what they do which is often the case with these AOG Quacks.

Of course- it is hypocritical.But these days its almost impossible to be a Pastor and not be one.

Fr CT2 @ July 15, 2011 2:56 PM

Anonymous said...

Lets stand firm in our resistance against abusive church leaders. TOTT-it is working. I heard one AP already abandoned ship under the guise of study.(The usual excuse)

Lets do this together. If the church does not want to be accountable or transparent they have no right to be expecting any money from us.Church money goes for GOD'S causes- not for the PASTORS causes!!!It seems Pastors are determined to learn this theherad way!!

Fr CT2 @ July 15, 2011 5:21 PM

Anonymous said...

Referring to Anonymous July 15 at 12;15am:

Why the general superintendent of AOG Rev Ong Sek Leang does nothing.

AOG M'sia does not take not act because they are like my neighbour's dog. Make a lot of noise, everybody knows it there. But when you shout, it runs away. PG was the GS of AOG M'sia for many years and has been made GS Emeritus. Where was Ong Sek leang when PG was the GS. Probably he was, then, a small fry and insignificant. But now????

This is not happening only in Malaysia, it happens in America, too. When a pastor is scandalous, the board will sweep it aside.

Now this. After reading, you answer your own question. no need for further clarification.

PG. the present chairman of the Pentecostal World movement has committed to organize the conference in 2013 in Kuala Lumpur. Brown-nose Ong Sek Leang is the Chairman, Host Committee for this conference.

Need I say more????

Fr Ct2 @ July 15, 2011 6:02 PM

Anonymous said...

I was reading "Movement of the Moderates" by Rev Eu Hong Seng, NECF Malaysia, Chairman.

Extracts from the above article:

A right is a right. A wrong is a wrong regardless of whether it is committed by the government or the opposition or whomsoever.

We remember Christ's mandate to love our neighbours as ourselves and not conduct ourselves in an un-Christian manner. At all times, we want to be conciliatory and be agents of peace to ensure harmony.

No doubt NECF is a fellowship of Christian bodies, it has no bite. It could not get the recalcitrant PG to the negotiation table. Is PG still the adviser to NECF. If yes, it's high time NECF remove him from this position. Otherwise, it's a joke!!! What credibility would NECF have.

Fr CT2 @ July 15, 2011 10:52 PM

Anonymous said...

Anonymous July 15, 5:21pm mentioned that one AP had abandoned ship under the guise of study.

Food for thought. Is it study or has his conscience finally convinced him that PG has lost his calling.

There is no doubt that TOTT is working wonderfully. Using the Annual reports as a guide, plot graphs for Tithes, Faith Promise and Contributions to Building Fund for 10 years from 2001 to 2010. Tithes were steadily increasing and peaked in 2007. Then the drop came. Faith Promise peaked in 2004 and started to drop in 2005 and subsequent years.
Contributions had a sharp increase from 2003 to 2006 and then started dropping very sharply starting from 2007. All this time the picture that the graphs represent is not rosy.
From 2004 when the Contributions to Building Fund was increasing, there was a corresponding drop in Faith Promise. It is common talk among worshippers in CC that it is very difficult to give to Faith promise and Building Fund at the same time. Probably CC has also now seen this trend and that is why there is no specific Building Fund pledging this year.

Whatever CC or AP SK, Missions Director, says, think hard. In 2008 CMN, the monthly Faith Promise Budget for July to December was RM218,000 per month. For 2011 Faith promise Budget from July to December is RM172,000. Yes, SK had said that the budget is based on collection. But bear in mind that he also said that whatever is left after meeting the budget goes to CCC! Isn't this a subtle and sly way to channel the worshippers givings to fulfill one man's vision.

TOTT is making PG and his minions nervous. Continue to TOTT!

Fr CT2 @ July 16, 2011 12:47 AM

Anonymous said...

REPLY TO U GOT 2 GO said...

PG did not behave himself.....
When PG was sighted at Sun Complex.
YOU GOT TO GO !!!!!
..................................
There are no witnesses to this "sighting" so legally there is nothing to build a case.If he was sighted by a non- Christian chances are he may not come foward to positively identify him.

I do not think anyone on this blog is being malicious but one just cannot accuse another without hard evidence.

God bless you all this weekend.TTG keep up the goodwork. You are our voice right now- not NECF not AOG.-which makes your presence all the more important.

Yes,one AP has abandoned ship and is on "study leave" to Canada. I called up a pastor yesterday and he confirmed it.

I feel very encouraged that finally someone is speaking out against abusive leadership- finally.This blog is an eye opener for many of us out here.

Assuredly, Gods favour is no more on CC leadership.

Fr CT2 @ July 16, 2011 10:39 AM

Anonymous said...

I concur with Anonymous July 15 that if PG is still listed as an adviser in NECF, his name must be struck out and should not be an adviser to NECF anymore.

NECF tried to get him to sit at the roundtable but failed.

Since NECF cannot act against him, the position of adviser is voluntary and subjected to acceptance by NECF, so there is no compulsion to keep him in the council.

Otherwise in the eyes of the world, will only show that they can only talk but no action. Then NECF's act is only a "sandiwara" or play-acting.

Fr CT2 @ July 16, 2011 10:40 AM

Anonymous said...

A SUGGESTION

Go to the services as usual but don't let SP and gang smooth talk you into giving to CCC fund.Don't give until you have gone home and prayed over it.

Anonymous " The Ringgit is my Shepherd" said it so well!!.

Fr CT2 @ July 16, 2011 10:43 AM

Anonymous said...

WE APPRECIATE CT for Unveiling the Truth and the need for Transparency and proper Governance of churches.

If NOT FOR CT, most of us believers are not aware of the hanky-panky, ungodly, shameful, and scandalous things that are being schemed and practiced behind the pulpits by these false prophets and false teachers.

Although it started with CC and over time others have participated to unveil more of same in their own churches.

No wonder the guilty and sinful pastors, associate pastors and deacons discourage and warned their members to avoid this blog lest their members know their shameful deeds.

We love you, CT and all its contributors.
Fr CT2 @ July 16, 2011 10:56 AM

Anonymous said...

WHY TTG MUST CARRY ON.
Grace & Peace be to you.

On our own we can do many things, but reasoning with these religious demons who form part and parcel of a denomination is well nigh impossible.They tend to close ranks especially if the complaint is against a "titled" person.To these Revs- we are just lay people.

If they ask you to settle this within the church,the "Rev" can "kau thim" you anytime.The end result is usually the same. You get prayed over and you go away feeling guilty about something you have supposedly done.

But a public forum like this takes away our vulnerability. The discussions are public but this time around the "Rev's" are getting very angry and preaching against it.We note they they are not even denying any of the concerns expressed here. "The Rev.is above you" psychology is over.If you take away the many titles of this religious demons, what do you find?? Just another brother or sister without any power to control or manipulate you with their "submission to their authority " crap.In the N.T Paul introduces himself as "a slave of Jesus Christ"-Which AOG pastor wants to be called a slave these days? Have you seen any? Face the bitter truth,many of these are trained in "Protestant Movement" not for Christs love or service-but the cari makan type.Key in to'fake pastors' and you will understand these types.

The CC crisis seems to be a test case for Christians in this land against abusive leaders.Dr.Lum sacked,400 axed,refusal to be transparent about financial matters,turning the microphone off while questions are being asked,shouting at Sis Liza(how dare he!!) and throwing her out ... and the list goes on.Many AOG pastors are following this blog nervously becos it exposing them too.Pastors Day" is just one way these demons have been fleecing the church innocents. I believe CC leadership will come tumbling down.Its all about $$$ at CC right now.One AP has already made his exit through the back door.They are disappearing without any announcements.Pam is just one example.This family has been using the church to enrich themselves.The truth is sometimes harsh but it s the truth nevertheless.

We must not be taken in by their "guilt ridden" sermons. Let "Bersih" begin from this episode!!

The Spokesman.[a believer in TOTT]

Fr CT2 @ July 16, 2011 11:20 AM

Anonymous said...

There was a write up here yesterday about someone at a deliverance session.We had a good laugh at the office. However today it has gone missing. Was it deleted?We wanted our friends to read it.

Have a great day lovely people!!!

Fr CT2 @ July 16, 2011 11:23 AM

Anonymous said...

COMMENT ON:-
re posting July 3 2011 12:37 pm ie “Today is Sunday and the Pastor was at it again- blasting bloggers who publisize church weaknesses by blogging. He quoted from 1 Cor 6 and said all church problems must be settled within the church itself.”
..................................
HE STATED CONFIDENTLY FROM BEHIND THE PULPIT THAT HE DOES NOT READ THIS BLOG- SO WHY IS HE GETTING ANGRY AND HITTING OUT AGAINST THIS BLOG? MAYBE HE DOES NOT READ IT IN CHURCH- PROBABLY READS IT FROM HIS PRIVATE COMPUTER AT HOME- WHAT A GIFTED LIAR!!!THIS BLOG IS REALLY RUFFLING HIS FELINGS.

Fr CT2 @ July 16, 2011 11:50 AM

Anonymous said...

I like to ask one question:

According to church history, will CC be the first church in Malaysia and in the World to excommunicate 400+ members at a single delisting exercise?

If so, PG and his APs and BOD should seek for CC to be listed in Guinness World Records.

Oh, sorry, I forgot this should be kept within the 4 walls of CC.

Fr CT2 @ July 16, 2011 12:13 PM

Anonymous said...

Now this behaviour of shouting at others and using bouncers to throw them out is a feature of nightclubs and strip tease bars.Now where did SP pick up these traits??

INQUISITIVE

Fr CT2 @ July 16, 2011 1:05 PM

Anonymous said...

Grace & Peace be to all of you from God th Father and Our Lord Jesus Christ. May you have a blessed time of worship this week.Just a note- dont feel guilty about not giving your money.God is not after anyones money- so worship God stress free!!! Bye and God Bless.

" I will never leave you or forsake you, so we say with confidence the God is our helper!!" ( Hebrews)

Fr CT2 @ July 16, 2011 1:13 PM

CALVARY TODAY said...

Addressing Anonymous @ July 16, 2011 11:23 AM.

Yes that comment was deleted. After going through the comments again, we felt that we should not allow comments that make a mockery of Church Ministry and in this case was the Deliverance Ministry.

God bless.

Fr CT2 @ July 16, 2011 1:22 PM

Anonymous said...

A Pastor shouting at anyone in public is unacceptable. Something is dreadfully wrong beneath the surface.This is how the AOG Rev's behave- because they are not accountable to anyone. In simple language- they are AOG "Tai Koh's" in church.All must submit to their so called "covering".Incidentally it is the same language used by pimps in the neighbourhood who ply their trade.

Is there anyone out there who can call up this idiot that he ought not to have humiliated Liza like that? He has to pick up the phone to apologize.Mayhe his wife PG2 can be his proxy.But many know that he has already lost his calling.

NECF has stated "wrong is wrong" so why dont they do it? Thats all they can do- talk and do nothing! This pastor is backslidden and needs to be called to account for treating a fellow believer in a most shameful and despicaple manner!!

What griefs us most is that she was at CC earlier than this man in his expensive suit. TOTT- thats the only language he will understand.

Fr CT2 @ July 16, 2011 1:37 PM

Anonymous said...

For all AOG pastors who are reading this-just a humble reminder- shouting at others and throwing them out of church is not the Biblical way to solve problems as I see it--it is the work of rebrobates concerning the faith who are snared by satan to do his will and as one writer put it
"Kurang Ajar Pastor- Binatang!!Well said indeed.

There is no need to be listening to these sort of pastors- its obvious they are backslidden and stay on just for their easy salaries and work schedule.What a disgusting lot!!!

Fr CT2 @ July 16, 2011 1:44 PM

Anonymous said...

REFLECTIONS FOR SP.
The Eagle pecked at the acorn,then grabbed it in its sharp talons and lifted it high in the sky to smash it against the rocks below to feast on its meat within.But the acorn fell into the crevice of an ancient majestic wall 1000 feet high.And the acorn said-"All my life I have been treated this way,isnt there A PLACE FOR ME TO SERVE AND GROW?" The wall moved with compassion,took in the little acorn.A short while later,the acorn burst open and struck its roots deep within,spread its branches climbing up the wall,and grew tall into the sky with its steely trunks tearing the walls apart.The ancient wall which had withstood many a thunderstorm, lamented its DREADFUL MISJUDGMENT as it collapsed to the dust.

CC HAS BEEN RUINED BY ONE MAN.

THE LAW LECTURER

Fr CT2 @ July 16, 2011 2:06 PM

Anonymous said...

Anonymous July 15 5:21pm:

Is the AP who left under the guise of study an associate pastor or assistant pastor?

Please be kind to verify.

Fr CT2 @ July 16, 2011 2:27 PM

Anonymous said...

Comment on Anonymous posting on July 16 @ 11:50am

Yeah PG says he does not read CT's blog and had forbid CC's staff and leaders to read the blog.

PG may not read the blog in office, maybe at home. Then, he may not physically read the blog but he will not have a shortage of others who read the blog and relate back to him. He can shout to the world then that he does not read the blog. And the joke is on him.

I believe one or two assoc. pastors read the blog too. There were instances whereby remarks they made from the pulpit is closely related to what has been posted on the blog.

Hey SK, you had mentioned from the pulpit a couple of times that wikipedia is a wealth of information and you often access to it. Do you not read about the scandals of Richard Roberts and David Yonggi Cho? haha To plead ignorance is bliss,isnt it?

Fr CT2 @ July 16, 2011 2:53 PM

Anonymous said...

ARE WE DECEIVED?
I was at the Church service this morning,but I honestly believe that God is not more present at CC's services. It was written in by Moses " Thosu shalt not take the Name of the Lord thy God in vain"
CC has been using Gods Name for doing the "works of Darkness". There are lots of manipulation,lies and deceit from the pulpit.Once upon a time the worship was glorious. Now the congregation has to be stirred by
soothing music ( especially during offering time). All these just points in one direction- CC has gone fake but has great speakers.This is a very dangerous combination and I believe other spirits have already stepped in. Ichabod- God has departed.

Throughout church history, all churches have their die hard faithfuls.These are the dump sheep.And they are the ones who fall prey to soul stirring sermons and emotion altering music.

CC is not heading in Gods direction- it has gone astray and led astray by a modern day Saul, Samson or possibly Judas.

ICHABOD

Fr CT2 @ July 17, 2011 1:45 PM

Anonymous said...

LET THE INSULT OF LIZA NOT BE FORGOTTEN.THESE PASTORS HUMILIATE OTHER PEOPLE AND CAN STILL CARRY ON PREACHING LIKE THEY HAVE NOT DONE ANYTHING WRONG.IDIOTS!!BECAUSE THEY BELIEVE THEY ARE REVERENDS AND THEREFORE THEY HAVE THIS POWER. THESE ARE THE ONE WHO APPEAR TO BE CHRISTS SERVANTS BUT ARE THE TOOL OF THE DEVIL TO DO HIS WORK WITHIN THE CHURCH.I AM FEELING SOORY FOR LIZA AND VERY ANGRY WITH SPS OUTBURST.I SAY WE SEND THIS MAN AND HIS FAMILY PACKING OUT OF CC!!! CC IS A FAMILY CHURCH- IF ONE MEMBER HURTS - THEN ALL ARE HURT!AT THE NEXT MEETING,DEMAND SP APOLOGIZE TO HER!! HE MUST!!

Fr CT2 @ July 17, 2011 2:08 PM

Anonymous said...

Yeah PG says he does not read CT's blog and had forbid CC's staff and leaders to read the blog.
...................................
HE SAID WHAT??? HAAA....HOOO...HO HAAAA...HOOOO.....HA..HA....

And now the Award for King Of Liars goes to SP & Gang!!! Clap...clap..clap...

Fr CT2 @ July 17, 2011 2:17 PM

Anonymous said...

Sp is shouting is because maybe he wants to be seen as a hero and tough guy before the ladies of the church. It happens all the time with these Revs. They will have a secret cruch on another lady in the church,and become protective of them.( but they will never admit this) This is a sure sign of a wolf in sheeps clothing.Church ladies beware....Satan is on the prowl

Fr CT2 @ July 17, 2011 2:20 PM

Anonymous said...

BOOK OF JOB [reflections]

God: Where have you been?

Satan: I have been to and fro from all over the earth.

God: Have you seen my servant SP who is faithful and honest servant and committed in My work and loves & serves my people?

Satan: Hah!!!- it is because you have surrounded him with hedges of fire and blessed him. Let me near him- and I will tempt him and deviate him from loving and serving will whisper to him to build the biggest christian facility in Malaysia.

Then he will resort to lying and cheating the accounts for the $$$ and throwing out your own worshippers out of Your house.In fact he himself will scatter Your sheep and ruin Your house.I will prove to you that he is nothing but a phony in disguise.

God: Go and do as thou has said-only do not harm him.

And Satan went forth from the presence of the Lord.

Fr CT2 @ July 17, 2011 2:31 PM

Anonymous said...

Yes that comment was deleted. After going through the comments again, we felt that we should not allow comments that make a mockery of Church Ministry and in this case was the Deliverance Ministry.

..................................
I had no intention of mocking anyone,or abusing this blog. I was narrating my experiences a long time ago.

Our church(not in KL) is following this blog.Our Pastor is okay with this.In fact in today's service he said before we criticize this blog we must ask why it was created in the first place.

He is also a fan of the "Bersih movement". God bless our pastor. And we do hope he never moves to KL-the pastors there are un-humble.

Fr CT2 @ July 17, 2011 2:55 PM

Anonymous said...

Now this behaviour of shouting at others and using bouncers to throw them out is a feature of nightclubs and strip tease bars.Now where did SP pick up these traits??

INQUISITIVE
.................................
I agree with inquisitive.Where did SP pick up this trait?Just imagine man- if he can do this before the church- what is he capable of at home on the private domestic front?Maybe there are other hidden things which God is exposing bit by bit.I don't feel right about this situation,but I can't put my finger on it right now. Something is definitely not right with this man- and we have to be extra careful.Especially with SP who can talk very very well.

My wife says he is lying low for the time being-and is using other people to do his dirty work- so the church will not focus on him- to deflect attention away from him.He believes that the church will not see through his act- but several already have- including my family and friends.Its not easy to see through the camaflouge.The look in his eyes,the body language - but the sudden anger!! I think he realizes that a few have seen through the facade.So he is treading very very cautiously.

REFLECTIONS ON JOB

Fr CT2 @ July 18, 2011 12:36 PM

Anonymous said...

It is said that "good son won't join army" (chinese say). So it is the same saying, "good pastor won't join AOG committee", because it is corrupted, money minded, mammon centered.
...................................
response tot he above.

I believe the author has left out one thing..."

Mostly of them are unhappily married and have roving eyes - don't listen to what they say- JUST LOOK AT THE NUMEROUS AOG SEX SCANDALS!!!THEY CANT HIDE IT!!

Our previous Pastor was known as a great worship leader- was exposed sleeping around with a College kid- no joke!!!

Maybe God is exposing the Pentecostal Movement for what it really is- phonies and quacks.Out of this shaking- will come forth the real servants of Christ.

Christians- stand up against abusive leaders who usually bring us into some kind of bondage with their " Submit to Pastors" rubbish.

For freedom Christ has set us free-don't be bound again by a yoke of bondage. Galatians.

DON'T LEAVE YOUR BRAINS ON THE TEA TABLE WHEN TALKING TO THESE "REVS"!!!

Fr CT2 @ July 18, 2011 12:50 PM

Anonymous said...

Reflections on Genesis 11

1 Now CC was united in love and worship and was bonded together in one Spirit.2 And as believers gathered together from everywhere, they found a land in Damansara and worshipped there. 3 And SP said to the worshippers of God,"Come, let us make bricks,and burn them thoroughly." And they had brick for stone, and bitumen for mortar. 4 Then SP said, "Come,let us build ourselves a Super Complex, and a tower with its top in the heavens, and let us make a name for ourselves, with my name placed second only to God!" 5 And the LORD came down to see the super complex that SP and gang were building. 6 And the LORD said, "Behold, SP is leading My people astray, and they have all gone mad; and this is only the beginning of what SP will do; and nothing that SP propose to do will now be impossible for him-for I have gifted him with the gift of the gap- and he can certainly blab!! 7 Come, let us go down, and there confuse SP's leadership, that they may be exposed." 8 So the LORD scattered them abroad over the face of all KL city, but SP was adamant to continue building.9 Therefore its name was called Ba'bel, because there the LORD confused the leadership of SP and from there the LORD scattered them abroad all over KL.

Fr CT2 @ July 18, 2011 2:24 PM

Anonymous said...

Does anyone outh there know where is Rev.Jerry Chow?? It is rumoured that he has gone on study leave. If that is true, why was it not done the proper way- by praying as a church and sending him out?

Does anyone know? After all he is from CC and desreves some respect.

Fr CT2 @ July 18, 2011 2:30 PM

Anonymous said...

Family

Roberts married his first wife, Patti, in 1968; they divorced in 1979. They had two daughters, Christine and Julene. Roberts is currently married to Lindsay. They reside in Tulsa, Oklahoma with their three daughters Jordan, Olivia and Chloe.[8][9] Richard and Lindsay had a son, Richard Oral Roberts, who died of medical complications thirty six hours after being born.[10]
[edit]ORU lawsuit and scandal

Wikinews has related news: Oral Roberts University president accused of illegal political donations and financial misappropriation
In October 2007 three former professors filed a lawsuit in Tulsa County, claiming to have been wrongfully terminated. They also alleged Roberts misused university assets and illegally ordered the university to participate in Republican candidate Randi Miller's political campaign for Tulsa mayor. Roberts claimed that this occurred while the tax-exempt university was working lawfully with the Republican National Committee on out-of-state projects as part of a long-standing, pre-approved curriculum which had been in place for several years.[11][12]
Other allegations against Roberts include claims he used university funds to pay for his daughter's trip to The Bahamas by providing the university jet and billing other costs to the school, maintained a stable of horses on campus and at university expense for the exclusive use of his children, regularly summoned university and ministry staff to the Roberts house to do his daughters’ homework, remodeled his house at university expense 11 times in the past 14 years, allowed the university to be billed both for damage done by his daughters to university-owned golf carts and acquired a red Mercedes convertible and a white Lexus SUV for his wife Lindsay through ministry donors.[13][14]
Richard Roberts responded by saying, "This lawsuit ...is about intimidation, blackmail and extortion."
Wikinews has related news: More allegations filed against Oral Roberts University
On October 12, 2007 the plaintiffs filed an amended version of the lawsuit alleging three days after the original lawsuit was filed, Roberts fired the university's financial comptroller (who had been employed by ORU for 26 years) and "witnesses have reported voluminous materials and documents were shredded and destroyed, constituting spoliation of evidence." In a written statement the university denied "purposely or improperly" destroying documents. Upon review it was discovered that the shredded documents had nothing to do with any allegations and were a part of normal policy, required by law for the privacy and protection of students and ministry donors .[15][16]

Fr CT2 @ July 18, 2011 2:31 PM

Anonymous said...

Response to Anony July 18 12.50pm, 'Maybe God is exposing the Pentecostal Movement for what it really is, phonies & quacks.'

I agree with you, God is exposing Pentecostalism because its not from Him. Thats why the CC pastors are not been filled with the true Spirit of God. If they are been filled with the Spirit of God which is the Spirit of Truth, they won't be behaving in such an 'unchrist' manner. For the true Spirit of God, which is the Spirit of Truth ALWAYS LEADS ONE TO ALL HIS TRUTH & HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS.

Fr CT2 @ July 18, 2011 2:45 PM

Anonymous said...

Is there anyway we get get this King of Liars off the stage? The mere sight of him irritates me and I cant worship God. SP- please get off the stage..please man.

Fr CT2 @ July 18, 2011 3:59 PM

Anonymous said...

Dear Anonymous July 18 3.59pm, if SP irritates you, what about the APs who are just as guilty as SP. My friend, its just impossible to grow spiritually in CC anymore as you already know these pastors don't live by what they preached. I don't understand how you or anyone could still tolerate and be still there.

Fr CT2 @ July 18, 2011 6:47 PM

Anonymous said...

CC has now become A SYNAGOGUE of SATAN

Anon said 18 Jul 2011 6:47 pm: “if SP irritates you, what about the APs who are just as guilty as SP. My friend, its just impossible to grow spiritually in CC anymore as you already know these pastors don't live by what they preached. I don't understand how you or anyone could still tolerate and be still there.”

From the BEHAVIOURS and ATTITUDES and MENTALITY of these so-called SP, APs, pastors and bod, it does not appear to us at all that (a) they are the anointed ones of God to preach the Gospel of Truth and shepherd over God’s flock in CC.
They are running Satan’s synagogue.

Below are the Scriptural verses to support this statement viz:

Revelation 2:9 I know about the slander of those who say they are Jews (believers in God) and are not, but are a SYNAGOGUE of SATAN.

Revelation 3:9 I will make those who are of the SYNAGOGUE of SATAN, who claim to be Jews though they are not, but are liars — I will make them come and fall down at your feet and acknowledge that I have loved you.

Their MASKS have been REMOVED. So do not worry what they said that they are the anointed ones of God and you cannot touch them. THIS IS UTTERLY NONSENSE. The Bible is so clear – they are LIARS and a SYNAGOGUE of SATAN. I did not say that – THE BIBLE SAYS THAT. Amen.

To those who are still attending CC – YOU DO SO AT YOUR OWN RISK because CC is no longer the church it used to be.

Fr CT2 @ July 19, 2011 8:52 AM