The group of members began gathering in the Indian restaurant across the road from our Calvary Church Damansara Perdana, Church office from as early as 10am. By 10.45am, the group had grown to about 80-90 members. Disappointment, discouragement, bewilderment, sadness, hurt and grief were written on many of the faces. Who can blame them? Many of these faithful worshippers have devoted most of their adult life, several as long as 45-49 years, serving tirelessly in Calvary Church. As one member said, some of them were saved, baptized, found their life partners, gotten married, had their children dedicated and later, witnessed them get married in Calvary. And now, with a stroke of a pen by PG, they have all got kicked out of their Father’s house. That was the price they paid, for just trying to make a change, for merely asking for transparency and accountability from PG and his Deacons.
At 10.50am, an ex-Church leader, Bro Ronnie addressed the crowd to encourage them. At 11.00am sharp, the group stood up and walked out and marched solemnly and peacefully across the road to the Calvary Church Damansara Perdana Church office. To their disappointment, PG did not come out to meet them. Instead he sent his Associate Pastor Steven and his Deacon-lawyer, David Peters to meet the group. After several minutes of discussion and negotiation, three representatives of the group were allowed to enter the Church premises to meet PG to hand over the Memorandum.
The three representatives went in, handed the Memorandum to PG and were out within a few minutes. According to one of the representatives, they invited PG to come out and meet the members but he flatly refused.
The entire historic event was over in 20 minutes, witnessed by the press and under the watchful eyes of the police, whom the group had earlier informed, as a precautionary measure.
The submission of the Memorandum to PG made the news in all the major newspapers namely the The Star, New Straits Times, China Press, Nanyang Siang Pau and Sin Chew Daily the following day.
Click on the images to view the newspaper reports.
.
162 comments:
today calvary church is the topic of the day perhaps sp is now more known then his tan sri ship.gosh this is one publicity other be laughing at us..a church claimed to have adminsitered 13000 people ..now we have 13000 people wondering what happened?
be steadfast stand firm on truth.we cannot tolerate this sp n his employed pastors to abuse our hard earned saving..for every rm100 we put in..we deprived ourselves of a better meal.
pastor is just a profession..u have saleman lim. chef calvin..driver ahmad.designer jenny this are professsion title.
pastor doesnt mean he know everything..just because he been to some bile colleges.alot it common sense.
now we are the infamous calvary for a long long time by tan sri.
gosh this is real exciting days to come
March 21, 2010 6:28 PM
NATIONAL CHRISTIAN ORGANIZATIONS - KNOW YOU NOT YOU ARE 'THY BROTHERS KEEPER'!
It is time for National Christian organizations to realize that their silence is deafening and the Lord has passed them by.
If they continue to be silent, He will continue to make them irreverent and will even cause the 'stones' (Secular Newspapers) to speak on behalf of His suffering children.
Delighted to know the 'stones' are speaking!
I think those Christian Organizations who still consider the Senior Pastor of Calvary Church their advisor should examine themselves and as "thy brothers keeper" REMOVE him NOW before there is further embarrassment!
It is only a matter of time before we witness the changing of the guard at Calvary Church.
COUNT ME IN - I WILL BE THERE WHEN IT HAPPENS!
Vijay
March 21, 2010 10:05 PM
I agree with Vijay. What are the National Christian organizations doing about the sad state of affairs in Calvary Church? Why are they not doing something? Anything?
The Christians of this nation need to put their trust somewhere. There's alot of good out there - but there's also alot of bad mixed in. Someone has to have access to all of it and separate the right from wrong. That's our job. That's our duty. Whether we like it or not!
PG is a rogue pastor who sees himself beyond reproach. He no longer cares for his sheep and is bent on ignoring the alarm bells.
My question is .... if we are the guards of society, then who will watch us and make sure we are not dangerous? Who will guard the guards? "Qui custodiet ipsos custodes"?
To all relevant National Christian Organizations, please come forward and do something. Do not be intimidated by power, position, past relationships/friendships. This has gone on for over two years and nothing has been resolved. Make a stand. PG has crossed the boundary and needs to be disciplined. The world is watching.
March 22, 2010 1:45 PM
Dear Administrator of CT,
I hope you could share with us what actually took place last Saturday. Update us also with the news and photographs from the national newspapers.
I heard from a reliable source that when the representatives went to pass PG the memorandum, as usual he said, "my door is always open". But when the representative asked him to meet the members (or should I say "sacked members") whom have gathered outside his office, his response was"not necessary". What a hypocrite!
March 22, 2010 3:29 PM
Oh just to add in to the earlier one, another piece of what PG said last Saturday. From the same reliable source, when the representatives told PG that the sacking of the 400 members were very ungodly, PG told the representative, "you know, you are talking to a pastor." When I heard that I almost fell off my chair. He still wants people to think and accept him as a pastor. OH PLEASE....!!! What a hypocrite! What an insult to all those true loving, caring & most importantly God fearing Pastors out there.
ROGUE LEADERS HAVE NO PLACE IN THE CHURCH!
March 22, 2010 4:23 PM
If all the details help, i would be part of the detabase for further investigation..
I have not been to Calvary for more than half years.. Not attending it intentionally.. But my name is still in the member list..those whose name was removed.. It's not about fairness, it's a conspiracy..
March 22, 2010 4:41 PM
Anonymous, would you be willing to come forward to confirm your statement if the situation arises?
March 22, 2010 5:06 PM
I was there last Saturday as a supporting buffalo. Not seen in the newspapers PIC but I am glad I took the step to be part of truth, transparency and governance. The leading buffaloes are brave, firm and most of all full of love.
I have learned.
March 22, 2010 5:27 PM
My friend told me she has missed AGM for more than 6 times and also she is not attending CC regularly lately, but her name is still on the voting list. She laughs so loud and I laugh with her. Another friend had gone to SIB since last year and her sister had gone back hometown, but their names are still on the voting list! It is a conspiracy, I agreed with you, Anon N at March 22 4.41pm. It is without a shadow of doubt, conspiracy .. conspiracy .. he who dared to said he is a pastor, oh, oh, Lord Jesus, please help PG to look at himself carefully who is he actually
March 22, 2010 6:02 PM
Hi there,
I know myself and another member have been attending another church for some months now and our names are still in the member's list. It does seems that only members perceived to be against 'leadership' are strike off the list. So the actual numbers of CC membership is less than 1400.
Can we start a roll call of 'phantom' members like us?
March 22, 2010 7:32 PM
Strange criteria for membership assessment.
I know of someone who has gone to another town for almost ten years. Certainly has not been attending Calvary Churhc for that long too and yet her name is still in the membership roll.
What jokers we have for BOD and Membership Committee in Calvary Church! They are 'purging' any opposition from the membership roll so they can bulldoze their way at AGM.
PG and BOD's carnal and ungodly actions are as clear as daylight...
March 22, 2010 7:53 PM
When told it was ungodly to sack 400 members, the only response was "You know, you are talking to a Pastor?" What does he mean by that? That pastors can suspend their members and it is within their authority.If you want to know why AOG pastors are rather cocky, its because the head is diseased.Its time to put the foot down. Supporting Buffalo
March 22, 2010 9:46 PM
Like Learned, I was another supporting buffalo last Saturday, backing up the front buffaloes. I am proud to be among the group standing up for Truth, Transparency and Good Governance. The event was conducted peacefully, and there was definitely an atmosphere of brotherly Christian Love.
The predators will attack again, but if enough buffaloes join in, we will surely withstand whatever they attempt to do next.
March 22, 2010 9:51 PM
After reading all the comments about the inconsistencies on the part of PG & the BOD in sacking the 400+ members, it just shows the "unhealthy" spirit that is in them. Have you all read what they wrote on CC official website about the reasons/examples for reclassification? What a joke! And they even dare to lie in the official website by saying, "This method of reviewing and updating the Church Membership Roll has been in use more than 20 years."
Oh Lord, have mercy on them. How could they blatantly lie through their teeth? They keep moving the goalpost to soothe their selfish and personal agendas. Liars! Liars! Liars!
March 22, 2010 10:47 PM
Dear Bro/Sister "Still Waiting".
I have close contacts with National Christian Organisations but unfortunately, and very sadly, none brave enough to make a stand and do the right thing. (Note I am not singling out specific National Christian Organisations as I have good friends in many)
I have had my own share of disappointments and heartbreaks as I observe my brothers/sisters who are committee members of National Christian Organisations chose to remain silent. They are good people - like many of us. They fear God and I think at times they have silently shed tears seeing the situation not only in Calvary Church but other churches too. As I write, I know of 4 churches in the Klang Valley going through leadership crisis that has split the church.
They know the issue and agree with me that the Senior Pastor PG of Calvary Church must graciously step down and leave. Unfortunately, none willing to make a public comment.
Why? - perhaps they feel they are not "good enough" to judge another senior pastor. Perhaps it is because of past relationships or blessings they have received from PG. Perhaps they do not want to be seen as the person to rock the boat of fear they may open a bigger Pandora's box.
All I can tell you is they are doing something but unfortunately the progress is too slow. What is needed is a tipping point - an event that will cause more of the committee members to voice the need for a public statement and to put into pen and paper what they know in the heart is TRUTH.
If more cry out for justice, the voice of many will over shadow the present fear and indifference that still exist in the various National Christian Organisation committees.
This is were we need intercession to tip the tipping point in our favour. You see bro/sis - a prayer worrier has no obligation to see thru a prayer being answered. He/she can say - "if it is God's will" and leave the matter in God's hands.
However, on the other hand an intercessor has counted the cost and lays down his/her reputation (as some of you have done) and DECLARE IT IS THE WILL OF GOD THAT THE SENIOR PASTOR AND HIS CRONIES BE REMOVED AND THE CHURCH RETURNED TO THE RIGHTFUL OWNER - THE HOLY SPIRIT HIMSELF & THE CONGREGATION. THEY WILL NOT TAKE "NO" FOR AN ANSWER.
For those interested in the power of intercession - please refer to Rees Howells Intercessor.
Note - Intercession is not long prayers or repeated prayers - Intercession is an act where you lay down your life for the sake of your bro/sis who are currently suffering under the hands of cruel task masters. In your spirit, you need to come to a position where you forsake your reputation, standing in society and pleasures. Many a times, those closest to you will leave or betray you! You will enter the dark night of the soul where you have only God as your friend. The enemy will never give you rest. At times you feel even God has betrayed you! But at such times, tell Him, "though you slay me - I will still trust YOU!"
This is the kiros time - give Him no rest until your demands are met. This my friends is what the Lord has shown regarding Calvary Church. One day you will look back and see His glory fill the temple and bro/sisters untied and worshiping Him.
GIVE HIM NO REST, PRESS ON UNTIL HE GRANTS YOUR REQUEST.
Vijay
March 22, 2010 11:11 PM
Can you please post the memorandum handed to PG and the press statement given to the newspaper.
Bro Vijay and a few others have echo many of our thoughts, i.e. Why didn't the Christian Leadership of the Nation take the initiative to address these issues.
Often times, we have called for united prayers for the Nation and Salvation.
Wonder whether there should be a clarion call for all Christians in the country to pray for the Church, perhaps set aside a venue to do so. It would be interesting to see how many are suffering from other churches other than Calvary Church.
Perhaps such a call's objective unites the Churches to bear one another's burdens as well as keeping the Church for the Bridegroom to return.
some updates too.. i was there, last Saturday..before i proceed, those who missed it, you really missed it!
yes, all started very well, there was strong presence and anointing of the holy-spirit ( mind you), God was in control!
The press man n press camera man were there, snapping quite a few photos as i observed, quite a number of police; they are friendly and even praise the group for being 'sangat baik', tak ada buat bising!
the ladies were fantastic, carrying the banner in the front line and all "memang ada gaya", btw; where are the guys huh?
OOoo, somemore, the 'super brave lady' who went in with the other 2 guys to hand over the memo, she is so 'cool..'
after that, when the 3 came out, they looked a bit 'dizzy', perhaps, it must be PG and the people inside there being 'rude' and 'unfriendly'! but never mind, i saw tht bro. Ronnie bravely addressed the crowd and then dispersed! after that, they headed for the press-conference.
quite a number of press in the conference room, it was a very successful press conference, and most fun too, we all had 'nasi briyani, fried chicken and the mamak food la...
good day..good day!
Worshipper for 25 years say ...
"..They know the issue and agree with me that the Senior Pastor PG of Calvary Church must graciously step down and leave..."
A police report on the "alleged " Offences has already been lodged as PG himself acknowledged!
Penal Code Section 408 " ..being in any manner entrusted in such capacity with property, or with any dominion over property, commits criminal breach of trust in respect of that property, shall be punished with imprisonment for a term which may extend to seven years , and shall also be liable to fine. " Section 408 is an arrestable offence triable in the Session Court KL !
It is normal practice for CEOs to resign or graciously step down and leave... to clean up his or her own name " ?
I do not think PG's "Tan Sri " title will SAVE him from possible Criminal Prosecution ?
When news make known that David was indeed anointed by Samuel as the next King of Israel , King Saul went into a RAGE ! What happened to King Saul in the end ?
How do I have access to the Calvary Church Constitution and the Church hand-book ? Someone read and said about " missed 5 AGM consecutively " ?
All " sacked members " can get their membership reinstated either individually or as a class action.
I know PG's lawyer friend is reflecting on the legality issues of the Church Constitution and the Church Handbook !
It's missed 3 consecutive AGMs.
Sacked CC members are not sacked as they are still members. Why?
The church quoted a clause in the original Constitution which was replaced by the "must attend 3 consecutive AGMs". Therefore that clause is not valid and therefore sacking the members using that clause is also not valid!!
Shame! Shame! on the leadership, lawyer-adviser deacon who could think of such a scam. So unscrupulous to do such a thing. Imagine!! This can be considered a fraud and it is so unbecoming of them and what a witness for the Lord Jesus Christ!
Therefore:
ALL SACKED MEMBERC SHOULD CONSIDER THEMSELVES STILL VALID MEMBERS OF CC AND SHOULD JUST MARCH IN TO ANY AGMS OR EGMS.
Be brave and do not be intimidated. We do need to stand up to such treatment and such behaviour.
The deacons we the members voted in, instead of coming to the people (members)are now acting as a shield for SP with total disregard of their duties to us as members. They forgot they too are church members and what SP is doing to us he is also doing it to them. Instead of mixing with the members (as that is their duty) they are avoiding us.
OOOOOPS!!!!
So it looks like PG is a LIABILITIES to the Christian community.
PG continue to make headlines !!!!
Not good news !!!!!!
PG shamed all the Christians in this country and the whole wide world.
AOG gave birth to Calvary Church but washed their hands rather than exercising their right.
SPARE THE ROD, SPOILT THE CHILD !!!
PG is such a spoilt brat now and does not have a pastor's heart eventhough he is a pastor.
Where is the virtue of a pastor?
If PG flashed at Lake Club,
PG is a liabilities!
To the Christian community.
If PG visited Sun Complex,
PG is a liabilities!
To the Christian community.
If PG raided by IRB,
PG is a liabilities!
To the Christian community.
If PG a narcissist,
PG is a liabilities!
To the Christian community.
If PG will not repent,
PG is a liabilities!
To the Christian community.
If PG continues to deceive,
PG is a liabilities!
To the Christian community.
If PG goes Witch-Hunt,
PG is a liabilities!
To the Christian community.
If PG divides the church,
PG is a liabilities!
To the Christian community.
If PG transfered money
to personal ministry,
PG is a liabilities!
To the Christian community.
In short.................
PG a liabilities
not an asset
As one who has previously attended CC 33 years ago, I feel sad over what is happening. Moreso, when I sense there is increasing bitterness and resentment amongst some of you towards PG.
Truth may be on your side. I certainly emphatize with some of you who wants to correct what is wrong. However, the way some of you go about in making protests and uncharitable comments against PG is hurting the body of the Church at large.
People outside the Church is asking where is the love? And do Christians know how to forgive and be kind to each other?
No body can change anybody. Only God can. God has his own timetable and He seems not in the hurry to remove PG. God will answer your prayers in His time and may surprise you.
Love is patient and kind. Love covers all. Will you then rise to the occassion to demonstrate to the world the meaning of love and to exhibit Christlikeness?
To borrow the words of John MacArthur," It is wonderful to have a high regard for the truth, but zeal for the truth must be balanced by a love for people, or it can give way to judgmentalism, harshness, and a lack of compassion."
A word of encouragement to TTG and all those who subscribe to the cause of truth, transparency and good governance.
This came in today in 'Today God is First' titled "The Training Ground of God":
"Praise be to the Lord my Rock, who trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle" - Psalm 144:1
David was a man skilled in war. From his days as a shepherd boy to the days of serving in Saul's army to leading his own army, David learned to be a skillful warrior. How does one become a skillful warrior?
The only way one can become a skillful warrior is to be trained and placed in the middle of the battle. It is only when we are place in the furnace of battle that we truly learn to fight the real battles. Practice doesn't make you battle ready. War games won't prepare you for facing your real enemy in the battlefield. The stark reality of being in the midst of the battle makes us effective warriors.
Simply reading your Bible will not make you a warrior for the Kingdom. Knowledge without experience is mere folly. Only when you are placed in situations where there is nothing or no one who can save you but God will you learn the lessons of warrior faith. This is the training ground of God, which will make you into a soldier for Christ in the workplace. Consider it suicidal faith - faith that says I want to be dead to anything that keeps me from fulfilling God's purpose for my life. It is when your efforts can do nothing to change your circumstances and you are at the mercy of God. These are the real training of God. Do not shrink back from the battle that God may be leading you to today. It may be a training ground that is necessary for the calling He has on your life.
If you can trust Him in these times, you'll know that you have gained a faith that will move mountains and will sustain you in the most difficult of circumstances. "Praise be to the Lord my Rock, who trains my hands for way, my fingers for battle."
This is a kisah benar which took place in a workplace today.
A group of Christians were reading the article that was published in the Sunday Star.
"How come the Senior Pastor can be so unspiritual" was the common comment from these Christian brothers and sisters who worships in other churches.
When told that the BOD are elected by the members, this remark was unanimous "they know how to "bodek" only-lah"
When they were given the CT website, most of them expressed interest.
I conclude that this is one way of letting more Christian brothers and sisters to come to know the truth of what's happening in CC. Subtle but effective. No hard selling. Just a simple action to bring others to become aware of the cause of TTG. This low key action will have a multiplying effect. A talks to B, B talks to C and so on and so on.
On "bodek", at one time, to be a member of the BOD is a covetous position in CC! But today, sad to say, opinions have changed! Members as well as people outside the church do not regard many of the members of the BOD as representing the members' interest or welfare. Many consider them to seek a title/position only like "who are you - I'm a Deacon" and are "yes-man" to SP all the way. Bodek is the right word to describe them.
Small wonder why PG will cling on his position for dear life. It's all a matter of dollars and cents.
PG and PG2 earns maybe RM40K a month. Jim and his spouse (no one knows for sure, and his house is more than a million ringgit), say, RM15K and the half-a-G, say, RM12k. Add in their bonuses, fringe benefits in kind, allowance and other monetary benefits, it will probably be more than million ringgit a year. When the next financial report comes, work out what is the percentage this figure is over the tithes and gifts CC receives a year. So now one can see why PG will cling on desperately for himself as well as for his dynasty.
As for the AP's, of course they will all be for him when they get more than RM10k a month. How many churches pay this well to an associate pastor. Bearing in mind their inclinations towards PG - fearing man and not God, other churches will not have high esteem for CC's AP's which will affect their job prospects.
The BOD? Today, it is the glamour and pride to be a BOD.
There you have it! For PG and PG2 and AP's, it is all a matter of survival in monetary terms.
Are pastors not human? Can they do no wrong? They may have started well, but not necessarily end well. For those who have not watched the video about Destiny Church in New Zealand, here is the link:
http://www.3news.co.nz/Destiny-Church-The-footage-they-didnt-want-you-to-see/tabid/367/articleID/144758/Default.aspx
Doesn't it sound the same when Brian Tamaki (can't call these people pastors anymore) and PG gave themselves great titles and the members must always say good things about them? For the associate pastors of CC, be like Pastor Andrew. Fear God and not man. Be bold to stand for truth and transparency. Can PG guarantee your destiny to heaven? SURELY NOT! Only our God of Truth and Justice can do that.
I pray Almighty God that you please remove and break the chains of bondage on the pastors, bod and members of CC from the devil. CC is Your church and we want to claim it back in Your Holy name. Let the evil's plans and agendas be gone astray and the church be cleansed from rogue leaders who misuse your sanctuary/pulpit for their own evil and selfish agendas. In Jesus' name I pray and ask. Amen.
It is evident that God has allowed a series of public exposure whereby CC leaders are now judged for their arrogance, ungodly mannerism, and indifference towards the voice of Christ's body. In fact, I see the termination of membership from CC as perhaps a blessing in disguise. I was reading the book of Genesis of how God gives deliverance to His people and those that honor and love Him. He gives us the "escape" clause. When God intends to judge a group of people, He will also choose to separate the scum from the seed. Remember how God removed the Israelites from Egypt and brought plagues into Egypt? Remember how God placed Noah and his family into the ark before He sends the flood? Remember how God provided a way for Lot and his family?
The God of our days is the same yesterday, today and forever. I believe judgement is starting to pour out on CC. The CCC project is an evidence of what is to become. For those pastors, deacons, leaders and members of CC and the AOG community who called TTG names and scorned the work of justice for the sake of protecting their 'face value', they too will receive of the judgement. No hypocrites shall stand before God unharmed unless they repent now and turn from their worldly ways. It is sad to see organisations that have the power to do what is "right" choose to hide and let evil loom. God now chooses to use the media, the court, the organisations of the world to bring His righteousness into His house.
This is the reason why many who are still members in CC that haven't been axed, will continue to leave CC because of this judgement call. God will continue to call His people out. Those left behind will feel sorry that they have not stood for Christ and instead worship a man because of their fears and insecurities. Events will start to unfold as God's people continue to pray for God to clean the house. We all remember how angry Jesus was when he saw people misusing and abusing His Father's house for their personal enrichment. Indeed, let us continue to pray...
WHOSE REPUTATION IS AT STAKE?
To those who take the stand that TTG Cause should not be exposed the way it did, for fear that the Jesus Christ's Reputation will be affected, they are only fooling themselves, or being deceived into accepting such reasoning.
Make NO MISTAKE, " Righteous and Justice are the Foundation of your (God's) throne" psalms 89:14
and "Your throne was established long ago; you are from all ETERNITY" psalms 93:2
When this dark episode of PG ends, it's probably the man and the INSTITUTION of AOG's reputation left tainted.
In Jesus Christ--the Son of God, the Light of the World, and sacrificial Lamb of God, without sin, is the same yesterday, today and forever more. And every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.
I an still wondering how,if spite of all the exposure and wrong doing, PG can still stand up and preach as though nothing is happening? PG- the Building Project has been abandoned.No more lying statements from the pulpit.You think we are stupid!!Tell the truth to your people. You owe it to them. They were your sheep all these years and they gave sacrificially.I urge the Pastoral Staff not to perpetrate any more lies.You are one pathetic lying lot.If you can lie at this level, what other things have you covered up? Disgusted Christian
JUDGMENT - how true your statement is.....
I was 'dropped' from a ministry I was involved in for a few years for reasons which really do not hold water....but after that I felt I was set free......from associating with those who do not hold the same values as mine
I had wondered whether it is like Lot, he was taken out before destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah...your blog has affirmed
it.
You guessed correctly - I was one of the dropped VM
Refering to comment by The Secret, he says that he sensed bitterness and no love in the ppl who are asking for justice.
I think differently after reading this blog from the beginning. In the start many ppl expressed anger but now I sensed the ppl here have matured in the faith in God.
It is not to just blame ppl here for bitterness and no love. What about the pastor who did not even go out to meet his sacked members? I think he has showed no love for the members at all. After what i see he has done to the members, he is the one with bitterness and no love at all.
The secret person sounds like a very clever person and quote nice sayings by people but I think the pastor is the one bitter and have no compassion and is judgemental to anyone who dare go against him.
Yes I would, actually I have 2 scenario here..
1. I was accepted as member without finishing 'My Faith Class'..(note: I've been attending Calvary on n off for 2years b4 I was noticed and went on for My Faith Class), I intentionally skipped 1 of the class bcoz I doesn't felt the present of the Holy Spirit during services thinking I might as well quit Calvary 'silently'. So I went to SIBKL 2months after Easter performance 09'. But suddenly I was invited to ceremony to be accepted as member, even without a life group. Then suddenly I became a member.
2. I left Calvary n attended SIB 2months after Easter, if they really mark the attendance using tithes, they would know I've not been attending Calvary since then. N yet my name is still on the list. I'm one of those who wanted to 'cut relationship' with PG..so I rather my name to be remove, so they would not use my 'phantom identity' to control decision, but since i'm non-VM, I think it doesn't matter.
But, I was thinking this way..If they measure one VM-ship by considering their attendance in AGM for 3 consecutive years, the most they can do is to downgrade VM to non-VM. There's no way they can sack member because they do not attend AGM for 3years. I'm suppose those non-VM should be sack like, all of them?
Worshipper for 25 years say ...
PG's "Tan Sri " title will NOT save him from Criminal Prosecution ?
" Section 408 is an arrestable offence triable in the Session Court KL !
I prosecuted cases for 15 years and I am sure PG is already history !
Once PG is "allegedly removed" by AG chamber under Section 408 of the Penal Code, will there be tears shed for him ? There will be much CONFUSION & FEARs among the Sheeps !
Which one Associate Pastor among the seven (7) APs are anointed to take over the helm of CC the moment PG is removed under the Secular LAW of Malaysia ?
All of you 400+ from TTG group, thousands of regular worshippers and from the lost sheeps, should now start FAST and PRAY for a NEW Senior Pastor ! There will be a GAP , A VOID that need to be filled up ! The LORD of HOSTS will be watching over us !
I urge those with the Gifts of Discernment please do your part like what SAMUEL did when David was anointed KING of Israel.
Prophecy as envisioned in 2003 will be fulfilled in due time! AMEN !
Changing of The Guard
We should pray and ask God to provide us a new shepherd as the present ones have disqualified themselves.
The present so called shepherds do not care nor love the sheep. Instead they have been feeding on the fat of the sheep... Just as described in Ezekiel 34 and so God will remove them because they have abused and scattered His sheep and let them be prey to the wild animals.
God's anger is surely on His shepherds who have failed in their roles. Instead they put shame to the leadership role which they should have upheld in the highest regard. Other spiritual big wigs, who followed blindly also condoned all the wrongdoings and even condemned those who spoke out fearlessly against the wrongs.
God's appointed time will come soon. Let us pray for God's justice and sovereign rule to come to Calvary Church soonest!
JUST a RE-CAP ( for the many who have short memory):
PG, BOD & Associate pastors all have acted willfully,
without any sense of accountability to its congregation; spent wastefully as if Multi-Millions $$$ are small change; and in particular, PG & family living the lifestyle of the rich& famous at the expense of the sacrificial offerings by all the members and public alike.
1. The RM10 Million Calvary Land--now stand IDLE.
2. The sinfully/'obscene' high salaries, BONUSES,
and perks & benefits they determine for
themselves. (including the RM15,000 Gym fee)
3. The use of Missionary Funds for personal gain
And as a result they "killed-off" the Church
Foreign Missions, and CARE
4. The withholding of DESIGNATED Funds for
Earthquake victims.
5. Taking out Extended Ministries as 'Independent'
with ulterior motives.
6. The demise of Calvary Kindergarten.
7. The Abolishment of Men's Ministry &
The closure of CA (Christ Ambassadors)
Youth Service
8. The non disclosure of Gifts & $ by PGs, received privately and from overseas speaking engagements.
9. The Big Lie on the CCC "Vision"
A financial catastrophe of RM180 MILLION (still
escalating)
10. The unjust removal of over 400 Voting &
Associate Members
The " PERFECT 10"! (of 'Crime') Sadly:((
Shame on AOG. If this has happened in Baptish or Methodist church, PG would have been removed long ago. AOG committee has a bunch of cowards. They speak against the sheep to protect a dictator.
Re: Anonymous N of 25.3.2010
I am amused by the "I was noticed" phrase used in your comment. I was wondering if you are noticed because you're well dressed, drive a nice car, right address or successful career. Reason why I mention this is based on my experience during my more than 10 years in church. I sit practically on the same pew everyweek. My dress code - jeans and t'shirt. Nobody "noticed". On two occassions, to test the teory that cc only "notice" the rich, I put on on my boutique clothes and makeup, right after service I was "noticed" and asked if I was a newcomer. Even a pastor remarked "nice clothes".
One new member mentioned that she was encouraged by PG2 continuously to apply for membership. More than 10 years, nobody encouraged me.
I have now left cc with my jeans & T'shirt.
During the Memorandum Day's handing over of the letter to PG from CC members (who were rightfully upset over the unexplained and unilateral removal of their names from the membership lists), PG reportedly said to the representatives, "You know, you are talking to a pastor."
How pathethic ! The big bully was apparently begging for respect from others. In normal circcumstances, we should feel sorry for this poor guy, ... BUT PG seemed to be DEMANDING respect.
We all know that due respect must be earned, not forced from other people.
Hello, PG, don't sleep. Wake up and face reality. Here are some hard facts for you to digest.
If and when members of your own church congregation whole heartedly respect you, then they willingly address you with honour which you EARNED, not demanded. Naturally, they will hold you in high esteem, without any form of coercion. Especially more crucial is the urgent need for CC to practise Truth, Transparency and Good Governance ! Don't shirk this righteous leadership responsibility to CC members and congregation. Don't you realise you have already lost the love and respect of most of CC congregation, due to your mismanagement of CC. So you want to kick out all of us from your membership lists ? No big deal, church membership can always be reinstated by the new sp when you PG and gang are
unceremoniously booted out ! NO problem, we have our close relationship with God, and you cant't touch it !
PG, the ball is now in your court.
Think right and act right. To all perpetrators (in CC's leadership positions - SP, SP2, AP, P and BOD) of wrongful actions and sinful thoughts, repent and reform immediately before too late. Or you will face the Wrath of God ! PG, only one way out, resign-lah. Otherwise, the heat is on ...
+
Worshipper for 25 years say ...
" Section 408 is an arrestable offence triable in the Session Court KL !
The alleged offences are as follows :-
a) if allegely transfer monies at different point of time between 2002 to 2006 to private account in CIM ; offence under section 408 Penal Code . If transfer 6 times then it attracts 6 charges for example!
b) if Tsunami Funds allegely transfer to private account ; offence under section 403 Penal Code .{ Whoever dishonestly misappropriates or converts to his own use any movable property, shall be punished with imprisonment for a term which may extend to two years or with fine or with both}.
c) if Love offering collected allegely not given to the Guest speaker ; also an offence under section 403 Penal Code .
All Associate Pastors, Assistant Pastors, Decons, Elders, all Church supporting staffs , etc, are possibly also vicariously liable CRIMINALLY :- Offences " Of ABETMENT ":-
if allegely one or both or all "continue" to " intentionall aids, by any act or illegal omission, the doing of that thing " ; offence under section 108 Penal Code. Section 108 " A person abets an offence who abets either the commission of an offence, or the commission of an act which would be an offence, if committed by a person capable by Law of committing an offence with the same intention or knowledge as that of the abettor .
If they have Mens Rea or Guilty intentions, then it is quite easy to secure a conviction. So to remain quite but still stay on in PG's team as prove to be FATAL?
Those who resigned earlier has an escape clause from prosecution in mitigation for a lesser sentence depends on the severity of each case! Most will become prosecution witnesses!
The secular Law of Malaysia do provide sufficient punitive criminal actions against many of PG's supporters & loyalists ?
There will be much CONFUSION and FEARS once their statements are recorded under section 113 of the Criminal Procedure Code.
These may cause Fears and Confusions in other 3 or 4 churches which were described by commentors as displaying similar wayward attributes? There is no Time BAR for Criminal Cases !
Let's Fast and Pray for the SPIRIT of the Living God to sweep through our Hearts and Minds in Christ Jesus! AMEN!
Diabolical. Despecable. Deplorable. Deceitful. Demoralising. These words and more appropriate others can only start to describe the high handedness of PG's unilateral and unprecedented removal of over 400 Voting Members and Associate Members from the CC's official membership list. Ever noticed that the timing of such a distardly action on the part of the present church leadership ? Could it not be a pre-emptive strike against PG's "enemies of the state" (correction, replace with "church") ? In one such swift "blitzkrieg" attack, Dictator PG cunningly smashed and quashed all "resistance forces" from TTG and its supporters. Further by requsitioning new troops (sorry, read "church members"), PG could demand unswervering allegiance to his cult leadership.
His only mistake was he never anticipated new problems in the form of the most recent press release by TTG and others.
Three cheers for freedom fighters ! Fith oppressors. Well done, TTG !
Last Sunday, Pastor PO already gave the CC congregation a free sampling of "giving to the CCC building fund".
For the benefit of newcomers and visitors to CC, all construction works and related project works at the CCC have been stopped for months and months now. The whole project had come to an absolute standstill. This extremely brief information come from the CC's pastors. Millions upon millions of RM had been pumped into this mega project, totalling estimated RM 150million. during all these months from last year till now, NOT A SINGLE WORD especially regular progress report to advise the CC congregation on the "Where ?, What ?, When ?, How ? Who ? and Why ?" of this prestigious project.
Suddenly, like lightning, CC intends to collect money again from us. Inprovised marketing of Faith Pledge cards ? Another new packaging of CCC Carnival ? Love Offerings (for good loyal buddies from USA, S'pore, etc ) ? Golf Tournaments ? Bowling Tournaments ? appreciation Dinners in posh restaurants / hotels ? Overseas missionary trips to win the souls of the rich and super rich ? Buy a brick ? How about buying a plastic bag of CCC project earth ? You can show to the great grand and grand children part of CCC'priceless history ! Better still auction to highest bidders the abandoned CCC porject's shovels, pick axes, safety helmets, workmen's gloves, torchlights, safety boots, workers' googles, bags of cement, bags of sand, etc.
Wow, we are so excited, anticipating the 2010 events planned by CC. Amen ?????
Most of us might have been so stupid enough to believe you, but plese do not pull the same trick twice or more. We are not born suckers ... !
Why do you need money for an abandoned project ? Right ?
Unless of course, might it be your full package retirement plans ?
SP and gang are the greatest liars and use thier position to obtain comforts & wealth. They cannot walk the talk but expect us all to do it. They are like the crab asking us to walk straight wheres they themselves cannot!!
The best way to find out who your "friends" are, really are, is when you earnestly got no one else to turn to for help, except these or that "friends".
We thank God the Father, God the son and the Holy Spirit for this crisis in Calvary Church. We thank the Holy Trinity for putting these trials, one after another in our paths.
Why, you all ask ?
Simple, firstly, each and everyone in the AOG leadership is (all are) answerable to God on Judgement Day whether or not he/she extended a helping hand to Calvary Church congregation in desperate times of need.
He/she has to give a full account of his/her actions/thoughts on this matter. Has he/she lifted a finger to help ? Has he/she pretended nothing (bad) happened ?
Has he/she preferred to remain in silence, hoping the whole incident will blow away ? Or has he/she betrayed God and fellow Christians by his/her actions/inactions ? Has he/she allowed himself/herself to be swept by Satan's lies, feeling powerless to act for righteousness ?
So far, AOG leadership's deafening silence sweeps over the cries of Calvarites requesting for Truth, Transparency and Good Governance.
Our friends, if you are one of the AOG leaders who continued in hesitation and silence, we pray you do what is right, by God's standards, not yours. May the Peace of God be with you !
Anonymous,
Forget it and don't count on the AOG council or any AOG churches or even some christian organisations for support. On the other hand, I would think a victory for TTG & CT in their suit against pastors of CC would be bad news for them, because it would put them in a bad light as it could also expose their own misdeeds of spiritual corruptions and authorinian rule over their own members. So do you think they would come helping your fight against CC pastors whom they regard as their fellow brother AOG pastors. No way.
TTG SHOULD BE A GOING CONCERN!
Dear Anonymous (26 March 2010 9:19)
You said it very well. I believe the walls of the AOG and other Christian Organizations are crumbling. Very soon they will become irrelevant. I won't be surprised, if churches stop renewing their memberships with the AOG or other Christian Organisations that do not really serve the community!
Perhaps the Lord may raise an alternative Church Organisation that has its roots in TTG and which will serve the needs of the congregations and not the leaders - especially rogue leaders!.
I think TTG should continue to exist in an expanded version to serve the Christian community .... even after the present issues at Calvary Church is resolved.
I am sure the Christian community and genuine church leaders would be more than willing to attend a forum or seminar as members of TTG share their testimony.
I also strongly recommend a book be written to share lessons learned to the larger world wide Christian community. Just check the Christian bookstores online and there are a number of publication based on real life stories - Church Growth, Drug Rehabilitation etc. but I have yet to find one that tells about the TTG's experience - Church Governance and rogue christian leaders!
Continue to copyright the material on this website!
Vijay
Re: jeans n T'shirt
When they know i own a business..n able to write a big cheque..i cant rmb how they notice me until u trigger my bell..
Worshipper for 25 years say ...
Can we sing these 2 songs in our Sunday Worship ?
(1) " As the Dear Panted for the water ... " the song always sung in 1987 !
(2) For Holy Communion, Good Friday, Easter , please sing
... " As the Blood was shed for me , ..... Crimson blood ...washes as white as snow... "
I am prompted by the Spirit of the Living God to ASK all of you from all Churches of ALL Denominations to join me and sing the above 2 songs.
I know many of you are Prayer Warriors, Intercessors, teachers of the Word, Servants who exercise your Gifts of Healing, Casting out of demons, faithfully obeying the Great Commission.
Please I urge you to use your Spiritual Wisdom, Gift of Discernment of the Spirit to "Build the Body of Christ".
If the Spirit of God do wake you up at 4am or 5am, please heed the Divine Calls and Pray as we are always called upon to do!
Something Wonderful is going to happen this Good Friday and Easter ! AMEN !
If what had been written that:(1) PG said "my door is always open" and then declining to meet the "sacked" members by responding " not necessary" and (2) "you know, you are talking to a pastor" is indeed true, the arrogance in him has reared it's ugly head again. This is typical of this arrogant man. Recall what he said about admitting Dr. Lum into the sanctuary during the EGM and when members asked for Dr. Lum to be admitted, he can turn 180 degrees and twist his words. Such arrogance!
"you are talking to a pastor" - what is this? Is he trying to say that pastors especially him is above all other people? Oh, maybe he has royal blood (blue blood) while all of us have normal red blood! Isn't PG a human being like any of us? Maybe he's an alien-lah.
It has become so apparent that PG is so arrogant that he does not care two hoots for his sheep. His thinking is always "I" and not "you" or "we". He is always pointing fingers at others and not at himself. The Chinese had a saying to describe such characters - Fingers always point out and does not point inwards.
I am writing this as an encouragement to all TTG members and those who were sacked. Last week, at the invitation of a friend, we went to GT Klang. Some of you know that our former missionaries, Tony and Christine Phang is now SP of that church. Ps Christine preached a powerful message on Missions. It was one of the best sermons I have heard in a long time.It was sincere, passionate and anointed. I enjoyed it so much that I went again the following day. They have just started their second service, one on Sat, and then one on Sunday. The church is vibrand and growing. We went for dinner after the service with our friends and they have so many good things to say about their pastors. The Phangs are making a great impact on this church. When we were there Ps Tony was even ushering! THe member told me that whenever he is not the speaker he would be ushering - it suprised them too! My encouragement to all of us who have given to Missions all these years is that your investment is not wasted on this couple. We can only imagine why they left Calvary. But at least some of the missions fund were involved in the missions through them. Ps Christine is still involved with their ministries in Kenya and Congo, Ps Tony is making a difference in this church. We can still count it a privilege that we were able to invest in them when they were with us. Not all is lost! Maybe we can consider if they would like to pastor us as well - the axed sheep. Perhaps this is something the TTG can think about? We were so encouraged when we saw this couple and in a way, they restored our faith in AG pastors or perhaps they were the exception? You can also visit their website to listen to their messages.
Worshipper for 25 years say ...
A few commentors expressed regrets the AGM is allegelly doing nothing ? Now I am curious why " Assemblies of God of Malaysia " (AGM) need to be named as a defendant in the Civil suit?
Article XIV. Rights of Intervention
A. If the pastor, board, or the church does not comply with the tenets set
forth by the General Council herein as well as in the By-laws, the
General Superintendent of the Assemblies of God of Malaysia at the
invitation of the majority through its authorized representative,
normally the secretary of the Church, shall call a meeting with the
church to protect the rights of either the minority or majority that does
desire to adhere to these agreements. Such a meeting may be called at
any time after one announcement at a Sunday service.
B. In the event that the Church shall not be able to function as a society or
local body or in agreement with the Tenets of Faith or it becomes
apparent that the Church cannot continue its activities because of
internal strife, open rebellion or the repudiation of the states Tenets of
Faith or upon any such a decision by a majority vote of voting members
present in any business session and upon such decision be entered
upon the minutes by the Secretary, the said decision shall automatically
empower the General Council the title deed to its church property or
its proceeds in the furtherance of the Gospel work provided, however,
that the Executive Committee consent to receive the same.
E. The Discipline For Ministers
1. The Nature and Purposes of Discipline
Discipline is an exercise of scriptural authority for which the
church is responsible. The aims of discipline are that God may
be honored, that the purity and welfare of the ministry may be
maintained, and that those under discipline may be brought to
repentance and restoration.
Discipline is to be administered for the restoration of the
minister, while fully providing for the protection of the spiritual
welfare of our local assemblies. It is to be redemptive in nature
as well as corrective and is to be exercised as under a
dispensation of mercy.
2. Causes of Disciplinary Action
Violations of Christian principles (I Tim 3:1-2; Tit. 1:6-9), which
may give cause for disciplinary action, are as follows:
a..
b..
c. Irresponsible action contributing to church split.
d..
e. A habit of running into debt which brings reproach
upon the cause.
f. Embezzlement of funds under trust or breach of trust.
g..
h..
i. Resorting to violence.
j. Any other serious misconduct
However I could not find the provision on procedures to remove the General Superintendant of AGM for negligence in discharging his or her DUTIES ?
I will be discussing with Wisdom Gifted, Spirit Filled Legal Minds on how to go about it!
In the mean time, Let's Fast and Pray for insights on how to do it when the situation calls for it. AMEN !
Dear Worshipper for 25 years, and all those who had raised about the lack of effective action by the Gen Superintendent of AG Malaysia and AG Malaysia
Of course you failed to discover any laws or regulations that governs the conduct and ethics of the Gen Superintendent AG Malaysia in the event of wrong doing. The AG Malaysia laws and policies are as antiquated and irrelevant in parts or whole as some of the laws in our country.
The main reason for this is that the AG leaders did not foresee or irresponsibly refuse to deem that their reverent pastors would at some point in time be capable of doing wrong or commit breachs of their spiritual oversight duties. You will often hear from the pulpit of his own church of the Gen Superintendent of AG Malaysia about the fallibility and moral frailty of pastors since they are humans too, and ergo church members must not be quick to bash pastors for their ill-doing. So, why are we not surprised that when comes to the intervention and discipline of pastors especially senior pastors - assuming that they have, evidently, commited wrongful doing - , the Gen Superintendent and his companions of AG Malaysia have not been effective in handling the CC debacle. The Gen Superintendent has been known to evade and brush off any complaints from church members as materials that are taboo and unspiritual to bring up. Our question to him has been this: If you evade and refuse to listen to our grouses - be they legitimate or not - how then, we beg, will you know what are or were our problems? And, if you are not cognizant of our state of affairs, how are you to be in the optimum position to help us recover, change and return to the rightful spiritual journey of faith?
And, to some of your dear folks here who had observed the lack of effective action and 'heart' of the leaders of AG Malaysia, do know hereof that they are cut from the same cloth.
We, as witnesses who worship and contribute to the church of the GeN Superintendent of AG Malaysia, we regret to share with you that this said leader has been known to habitually run down other church members and ministers of other churches. His behavior from the pulpit is observed to be arrogant and at times temperamental. But this is considered acceptable to his pastors and cell leaders because he is merely complaining about these people's poor state of spiritual attitudes. We often wonder what happened to the compassion and the gentleness of Christ as He is 'at hand'? Have these virtues taken a sabbathical because the Gen Superintendent is right in rendering his 'critique'?
Bottomline, nurture your walk with God closely on a daily basis. While we shouldn't look at or relate with any pastor with an iota of suspicion, we must also not be too naive, gullible and complacent with our own journey of faith.
Not for Carnal Pastors.
I am from another church in Sabah and what is happening here certainly attracts sympathy from Christians in other churches.
The world's standard for transparency and accountability is based on accounting standards which have been subscribed by the corporate world. These standards has more to do with accounting reporting requirements and accountability towards shareholders. These measures are worldly standards set up to ensure that corporate decision makers and management give a fair and accurate picture of what is happening to the companies' finances and to ensure that they do not breach their duty of care towards the shareholders.
These standards have also recently been adopted by some governments to deliver greater transparency and accountability towards citizens.
God's standard of Christian Stewardship is undoubtedly higher. It has more to do with the intention of a person rather than the final action.
In Acts 5, Ananias and Sapphira had to die because they had lied about their accounts and kept part of the money intended for God's kingdom. If that money which is meant for God's kingdom is placed onto your hands as God's steward and you had given a false account of the true amount meant for God's purpose and kept part of it as in the case of Ananias and Sapphira, then Acts 5 would apply.
God's standard is so high that even saved and repentant Christians like Ananias and Sapphira had to die for their lie to the Holy Spirit. Peter (under the influence of the Holy Spirit) did not even give them a chance to rectify their mistake. They had to die instantly!
God will deal with SP if he has indeed lied about the accounts and kept any part of the money for himself. It is not for you to judge, lest ye be judged.
It is certainly not for you to curse: see Numbers 23:8
How can I curse
those whom God has not cursed?
How can I denounce
those whom the LORD has not denounced?
Let us not get overly emotional to the extent that we start to curse.
Remember, SP was ordained by God for his ministry and it is not for men and women to strip him of his position. It was not for men to strip King David of his throne. Let there be no hatred in your hearts for SP.
I say to you in Rev 2:
1"To the angel[a] of the church in Ephesus write:
These are the words of him who holds the seven stars in his right hand and walks among the seven golden lampstands: 2I know your deeds, your hard work and your perseverance. I know that you cannot tolerate wicked men, that you have tested those who claim to be apostles but are not, and have found them false. 3You have persevered and have endured hardships for my name, and have not grown weary. 4Yet I hold this against you: You have forsaken your first love. 5Remember the height from which you have fallen! Repent and do the things you did at first. If you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place. 6But you have this in your favor: You hate the practices of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate. 7He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.
In this hour of trial and severe tribulation, I implore upon you, those who consider themselves true members of CC, to embark upon fasting and prayer to move God's mighty hand in CC. I also embark you to be bold: see Hebrews 13:6
So we may boldly say: “ The LORD is my helper;I will not fear.What can man do to me?”
It is only upon true sacrifice that God will restore his glory upon CC.
God bless you in this journey of boldness and faith.
Amen.
What bothers me is the case being postponed yet again. Is this normal? Anyone know what the reasons are?
Worshipper for 25 years say ...
..."God will deal with SP if he has indeed lied about the accounts and kept any part of the money for himself. It is not for you to judge, lest ye be judged."..
(1)The Secular Law of Malaysia will judge PG. You are correct on this.
...A police report on the
" alleged " Offences has already been lodged as PG himself acknowledged!
" Penal Code Section 108, 403,and 408 are arrestable offences triable in the Session Court KL !
(2).."Remember, SP was 'ordained' by God for his ministry and it is not for men and women to strip him of his position. It was not for men to strip King David of his throne. Let there be no hatred in your hearts for SP."..
... Remember when King Saul disobeyed The LORD GOD & sinned, Prophet Samuel 'anointed' David as the NEW KING of Israel .
...King David sinned and the LORD GOD chose KING SOLOMON to build HIS TEMPLE !
In case of CC, PG tenure of service was clearly defined by the Blessed Church Handbook as RETIRED in 2006 under the keyword called PASTOR .
.." to strip him of his position " does not arise here. Most commentators did not judge PG,they merely expressed their sadness, disappointments, frustrations and register their protests ! Quoting scriptures never & do not constitute judgement!
..After 2006, PG is "no longer ordained " by the Blessed Church Handbook. I believed PG knew it and that is why PG started his PRIVATE ministry called CIM to prepare for his own retirement! Was it not reported that PG's CIM was derailed due to non- recognition by NECF ?
Men & women were & are 'ordained ' by human institutions to be Pastors and Ministers, etc..
Only the LORD GOD 'Anoint' his servants through HIS prophets ! What happened 2000 years ago are still relevant to this day! We are worshipping & serving the LIVING GOD !
..." .. It has more to do with the -intention - of a person rather than the final action."
Something did go & went wrong in 2003 when the " the -intention- of a person's standard " was applied!
Let's Fast and Pray for Wisdom, Revelation, Peace and Tranquility to prevail in our midst! AMEN!
Honestly Speaking:
None of us, I believe, "hate" PGs or The BOD or the Associate Pastors or even the Elder.
What we do DETEST are their manipulation, deceit, lies
arrogance, bullying, oppressive and ruthless ways.
And as well, their total lack of Transparency & Accountability.
Indeed, we who pursue the TTG Cause, fear the Lord our God.
CT
Thanks for helping us (who are wrongfully cut off from the membership list of CC)to hand our memorandum to PG.
Has the church replied or taken action to restore us?
Perhaps CHRISTIAN FROM ANOTHER
CHURCH will allow me to explain PG has never taken any concrete steps to meet us to talk. He uses the pulpit to 'scold' us...one way traffic. If you come to our services, you will understand what we have been going through the last couple of years.
AGM is coming and unless he restores our membership which he takes away from us illegally, we cannot even attend the AGM. You may ask me why I mention 'he' - it is because PG has the final say in every department of the church INCLUDING membership department.
We are Christians and because we love the Lord we want our church to practice transparency, truth and good governance and these actually should be the basic framework.
PG has never come forward to tell us he is innocent.
The hearing of the injunction to stop the soon coming AGM is on the 14 April.Remember dump sheeps- Injunctions is a Chamber matter.(Rarely its done in open Court)The representing lawyers must be able to articulate well every point and present the background to the case clearly.Vehement or emotional speeches will be thrown out)Courts will not interfere with the internal mechanisms of any Company or entity unless there is an element of appression ( The Rule in Foss v Harbottle, S 188 of our CA 1965).
Gamaliel
Is this an ex-parte application? hardly anything was said about the defence.
This is a reply to "Case postponed again?" Yes, postponements are normal in our Judicial System. At the 1st date- the Judge will look through the documents are in order.If you have been advised by inexperienced lawyers,then definitely there will be something wrong.If the Judge is dissatisfied,he will order the parties to file Affidavits affirmed before a Commissioner of Oaths.The Bench has the power to demand any other documents as necessary or order the appearing of certain persons.The bench must be convinced that there is a strong case in your favour before granting TTG's application.But if the Judge grants the Injunction, then the AGM cannot be held.It would be a contempt of Court to proceed with a possible jail sentence.
But the disadvantage is this. If TTG suceeds, the the major church decisions are decided not by the church but by the Courts.That is really a disgraceful postion to be in. It is in this respect, that I have doubts about the present day Calvary leadership.If the court orders the reinstatemt of the 400 members, it would be a great loss of face to PG himself.I urge the CC to wake up to the distasteful LEGAL realities.Come on CC- are you the head of the church? I believe the TTG are on the right track in this matter.The time has come to stand up to abuses by manipulative jokers occupying the pulpit.
TEH AXE IS ALREDAY LAID AT THE ROOT OF THE TREES.
It's game over for PG!
3 Valid Reasons
1. Your sheep does not respect PG anymore!
PG have no choice by easy way out - Sack them before they sack you!{Dog eat dog bone principle}
2. Life is real SHORT! PG already so old, how many days more can he lives? 3650 days? The whole issue is in PG's hand and it is up to him on how he wanted to end.
3. The next AGM, the 400 + the rest make sure PG will step down!
Worshipper for 25 years say ...
"...AGM is coming and unless he restores our membership which he takes away from us illegally, we cannot even attend the AGM."
All 400 sheeps without a home, all have " LOCU STANDI" ,all should file a Civil case " each individually " to get their Voting membership reinstated AND seek compensation of Rm 1 million each as a civil remedies for emotional distress, trauma, despairs, etc etc, so created.
That will come to 400 voting members X Rm 1 million = RM 400 million ! This is the BEST Way to remove the " earthly economic power " of Pastors, Deacons, Elders & Church Supporting Staff !
This RM400 Million = MUST be re-channelled back to the NEW Church Leadership to be Voted in, invited in ,and appointed by MEMBERS of Calvary Church!
Do not keep the RM400 million ? The money still belonged to the LORD of HOSTS !
Malachi 3:8 "Will a man rob God? Yet you rob me. "But you ask, 'How do we rob you?' "In tithes and offerings.
Deuteronomy 8, is also very CLEAR on this ! Only this Way can the OLD Leadership will be declared BANKRUPT under the earthly secular Laws! AMEN !
Let's observe how PG's legal counsel advise him ?
TO:Anonymous said...March 30, 2010 12:42 PM
"The hearing of the injunction to stop the soon coming AGM is on the 14 April.Remember dump sheeps- Injunctions is a Chamber matter.(Rarely its done in open Court)The representing lawyers must be able to articulate well every point and present the background to the case clearly.aid about the defence....."
Have you not heard of "dumb & Dumber"?
Well, it's okay that you,PG and his minions think those who stand for TTG are "dumb".
In God's sight are His beloved:)
As for the "quality" of the lawyers, please be reminded TTG is represented by our chief ADVOCATE, Jesus Christ.
"There are a thousand things which prevent a man from awakening, which keep him in the power of his dreams. In order to act consciously with the intention of awakening, it is necessary to know the nature of the forces which keep man in a state of sleep.
"First of all it must be realized that the sleep in which man exists is not normal but hypnotic sleep. Man is hypnotized and this hypnotic state is continually maintained and strengthened in him. One would think that there are forces for whom it is useful and profitable to keep man in a hypnotic state and prevent him from seeing the truth and understanding his position.
"There is an Eastern tale which speaks about a very rich magician who had a great many sheep. But at the same time this magician was very mean. He did not want to hire shepherds, nor did he want to erect a fence about the pasture where his sheep were grazing. The sheep consequently often wandered into the forest, fell into ravines, and so on, and above all they ran away, for they knew that the magician wanted their flesh and skins and this they did not like.
"At last the magician found a remedy. He hypnotized his sheep and suggested to them first of all that they were immortal and that no harm was being done to them when they were skinned, that, on the contrary, it would be very good for them and even pleasant; secondly he suggested that the magician was a good master who loved his flock so much that he was ready to do anything in the world for them; and in the third place he suggested to them that if anything at all were going to happen to them it was not going to happen just then, at any rate not that day, and therefore they had no need to think about it.
Further the magician suggested to his sheep that they were not sheep at all; to some of them he suggested that they were lions, to others that they were eagles, to others that they were men, and to others that they were magicians.
"And after this all his cares and worries about the sheep came to an end. They never ran away again but quietly awaited the time when the magician would require their flesh and skins. "This tale is a very good illustration of man's position.
a short story , all these years sp been conning us of our money for his ego.
To "Not by Might", you must have read Anonymous words wrongly. He/she said, "dumP" meaning dropped and not dumb meaning stupid. Hope no harm done here.
Looks like PG & BOD have 2 kinds of sheep in CC - DumB sheep & DumP sheep.
Congrats to the 400, PG & BOD have finally recognised & acknowledged that you are not DumB sheep which he can just continue to hoodwink, control & milk your finances dry; thus, he has decided to DumP you before you can DumP (or boot) him out of CC.
In military terms, this unGodly action, by PG (an ex-pastor, in my eyes) in axing the 400, is known as a Pre-emptive Strike (or in Cantonese "sin har sow wai keong") which is a sin in God's eyes. It defies all Christian teachings as a shepherd is to protect his sheep & not axe them.
Thanks for Pointing Out..
Well, "Dumb or Dump". Take heart Jesus is Our Master & Lord and He loves us no matter, and even to the end of the world, he will not forsake us, his beloved sheep:)
Our God is a good God.
genesis , well spoken . we were all plain dumb and trusting...
Anonymous,
Perhaps there are some pastors or leaders of CC who deep down in their hearts suspect the truth, but yet they resist and refuse to speak out and stand for the truth of God all because of this one personality (SP) whom they are so indebted to and decide to stand by him instead of God. God's love for His children is always determined by their love for His truth. But when these people continues to resist His truth, there will come a time when they will find it impossible even to comprehend what is the righteousness of God, because their continued disobedience had caused God to send them a strong delusion, that they should believe a lie. ( II Thessalonians 2:10-11). God had already send this strong delusion over pastors of CC & leaders that they are now believing in a lie.
In obedience to God's instruction to love one another, I sincerely urge & hope some of the pastors & leaders to let nothing obstruct them and search deeply their own hearts before God and be found blameless.
You should stop paying your tithes to churches that divide the flock. The church has long held the carrot of prosperity and the threat of divine retribution over tithes.
If you still feel like tithing, then take your money and help the poor. What's stopping you from handing 10pc to a homeless shelter each month? Your money belongs to God foremost and not to an organization.
Where in the New Testament is the tithe mentioned? How many times has Paul urged 10pc?
Please do not be fooled. The Pastors want us to live by faith, but when it comes to money, Malaysian Pastors lack faith.
Read 2 Timothy 3:1-7
Unfortunately, like in the days of Jesus here on earth, mention money and many rival pastors will consolidate into a united front.
Calvarites,
This phenomenon is ocurring very regularly across Malaysia. I left my church two weeks back as the pastor was exposed to have said countless lies and imagines that he heard the Holy Spirit. He always points out that he went to bible school.
Being a pastor has become a profession and that is why the NECF is keeping quiet. It is a professional guild that enriches them immensely.
I tell you, if every Christian stopped paying tithes for two months and ask the pastors to live by faith, they will come crawling to apologise.
Somethin is changing, i belief most of us can smell it..instead of asking pg to step down ONLY, i think we need to pray more on rebuilding the church. As it was written: I will strike the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock will be scattered /Matt26:31. It's a skill how we are going to gather all the sheep and make it one once again. We have lost enought people, n i belief God is doing His job now, we can expect it very soon. Now lets pray togethet for the well being of Calvary and the church.
I am a Malaysian pastor who has been serving abroad for 3 years now. I have been following the Calvary church crisis for a long time and it saddens me that it has reached this stage.
My prayers are with CC and NECF as well as they seem to have been dragged into this by their association with PG as Advisor.
I do hope and pray that those affected are documenting everything meticulously so that lessons learned the hard way here do not have to be relearned in the future.
Money and power seems to be the two big issues here. Whatever happens I do hope that checks and balances in these two areas are strongly established.
Perhaps my 2 cents on my personal experience may be of help since entering my new pastorate.But please note that I am not presuming to tell anyone what they should follow. It is just my experience and personal convictions. I am now in my 20th year of full time ministry.
I for one have a policy where as pastor, I am not being allowed to sign any church checks (am not a signatory) or make any financial decisions except for those specifically stipulated that relate to my ministry expenses budget (which has a strict limit and and stated criteria). And even that has to be vetted by the church treasurer and church board. I pay first and make my claims later. If not approved, then I do not get reimbursed (though this has never happened .
Also my salary is not excessive and is in fact an average salary (it is lower than that of my wife who is a "professional" who holds an equivalent to a diploma). For the record I have a Bachelors degree and 2 Masters degrees (all earned the hard way) but I do not think that this should mean that in the church I should be paid according to secular systems of remuneration. It has to be a fair wage of course so that as a pastor I do not have to worry about the needs of my children and I have the means to financially help the poor and set an example in my tithing and giving, hospitality etc.
In terms of "power" I am the pastor and therefore on equal terms with members of the board / elders. And in some areas due to the practical aspects of ministry a "first among equals". However authority needs to be a shared one, so all major decisions and directions need to be a consultative decision making process where unanimity is sought, if not consensus.
Also the added principle is that as a pastor, I need to realize that though I lead the church it is Christ's church not mine and I am also a paid employee. God may call me to move on and the church needs to (in fact it will) survive and thrive without me. Hence whatever vision I have as a pastor needs to be owned by the church board and the members, if not major problems will occur if I should be called to leave, fall sick, fall into a major sin and disqualify myself for ministry - may God give me grace that this does not happen, or even be called home to be with the LORD!
Just two areas that has helped me not just keep sane in ministry but enjoy ministry.
Easter Sunday is just two days away. When we gather as a spiritual family at the Hockey Stadium at Bukit Jalil, let us all reflect on the sacrifices of Jesus Christ, our Lord. Easter Sunday - a very significant day that we hold dearly to our belief that Lord Jesus rose (rises) from the tomb, conquering Satan and Death.
Just as sure as the bright rays of the glorious morning sun confidently spreads across the earlier darkened skies, so just as steadfastly God's Holiness dispel all Evil, and all dark forces with His Truth and Living Light.
So CC members, be not troubled by the current crisis, for they are just temporary in nature. In God's own timing and wisdom, our Saviour and Rightful Master, Jesus will reign supreme again in Cc, removing the spiritual chains of bondage from satan from the House of the Lord, forever.
Let us be united, forming a prayer chain, supplement by corporate fasting, requesting for these miracles to happen soon. May all the diabolical schemes and plots of our Enemy, Satan, be foiled and confounded. May the walls of the enemy's stronghold be torn down and his city be conquered by the righteous. Amen.
Worshipper for 25 years say ...
Many thanks to " ..A Malaysian pastor serving overseas said..." for sharing his WISDOM & REVELATION.
We need Pastors & Ministers who can self regulate himself or herself to lead the congregation. You are a Good testimony, a Good and Faithful Servant of God !
You have set an example for all fellow Pastors to subscribe.
As of today I will double check whether " all Pastors, all Ministers " meet the minimum requirements of Meekness as mentioned below ! I will ask my brothers and sisters throughout Malaysia to double check theirs too !
(1) am not being allowed to sign any church cheques (am not a signatory) or make any financial decisions
(2)my salary is not excessive and is in fact an average salary
(3)In terms of "power" I am the pastor and therefore on equal terms with members of the board / elders
(4)I need to realize that though I lead the church it is Christ's church not mine and I am also a paid employee.
Now I understand why new Churches are now required to be registered under the Companies Commission to fulfill the Good Governance & Transparency requirements! Easier to use secular Law to check unseen & undetected abuses in all religious establishments !
Remember all earthly governments were and are established by our LORD GOD !
We thank Malaysian Pastor for sharing with us his personal experience, being a Servant of God, emphasing the need to serve (others), especially adhering to the prudent practice of leaving financial decisions to others, having constantly a system of checks and balances, to minimise the temptations offerd by money and power. All church leaders should adopt such a good, practical and sensible system of transparency and accountability, to help eliminate any possible dangers of mismanagement, corruption, abuse of power and related factors, with immediate effect.
Most approriately, a word of wisdom from the late "King of Pops", Michael Jackson, we can change the world by first starting with "the man in the mirror!"
Even a secular and worldly pop singer cum writer like Michael understood and appreciated the Truth - "Practise what you preach", PG.
Do unto others what you want others do unto you !
PG, don't curse and point fingers at others. Especially not from the church pulpit, during your Sunday sermons, for the past two years, in the House of the Lord ! We think it's so very unChrtistianlike, so disgusting for an SP, setting an extremely bad role model for young and old in the congregation !
Change man, while you still can.
ALL THE RIGHT CLUES TO ALL THE WRONG MOVES
From the present unfortunate stalemate situation over the CC crisis todate, it does not take much to figure out that the top officials of NECF, are apparently adopting a "See no evil, hear no evil and speak no evil" stance.
Enough of this "monkey business". Don't ape the mistakes of other offenders.
NECF, stop shirking your responsibilities to the members of the AOG affilation. Stand up and carry out your publicly declared duties which you sworn when you taook up these senior posts ! If not, we suggest perhaps you please resign enmasse, vacate your seats to otehr more responsible and equally qualified leaders.
The whole Christiandom and others of different faiths are watching your next move(s).
Think seriously and deeply about the implications of your next move(s) ... or inaction. A catch 22 situation, ladies and/or gentlemen ? When is a stalemate not one ? Are you moving the right pieces ? Or are you seating on it (your bums) ? Is a checkmate coming ?
Wisdom from nerds ?
Yes,I too believe that Pastors should be kept out of the financial side of the church.If the church lets a Pastor have the final say- they always resort to build bigger buildings- as though they dont want to be outclassed by other Pastors who have built churches bigger than theirs.And they become an embarassment by asking $$ from the congregation all the time.Calvary is not the only bad apple-so many different envelopes for offerings.I have sat in church many times wondering when is this begging going to stop and the preaching begin.But at the same time,I am grieved by the way Pastors are being bashed up by disappointed folk.I personaly know of Pastors who work with aslis and they drive 3 hours from the main road into the jungle- every Friday!!!And they have been doing it for years.God bless those Pastors who sacrifice so much for the sake of the Kingdom of God!! As for those Pastors who are given to doing their own thing- you already have your reward here on earth- in the form of recognition and extravagance.Lets stop bashing Pastors.Its the rogue Pastors that we should stand up to.
My Message for Calvary Pastors.
Luke 20:14" Now take your pay and go home...."
Thank you for the sharing of experience from the Malaysian pastor serving overseas. Just bear in mind one thing about the selection of deacons in CC. It is very flawed and they are guaranteed SP supporters?
Worshipper for 25 years say ...
Easter Sunday is just one day away. I & my family will not be joining the gathering at the Hockey Stadium at Bukit Jalil.
How to worship in Calvary Church when (Truth, Transparency, Good Governance, Accountability and Christian Stewardship)were lacking and missing.
As the HOLY SPIRIT prompted me,
I will gather at another Christ Loving, Spirit Filled Church that practiced like the "experience from the Malaysian pastor" as we reflect on the sacrifices of Jesus Christ, our Lord.
I fear the LORD GOD more than I fear men & women ! AMEN!
PG, if you are really, really, serious about people, especially your own CC congregation members to address you properly as the SP of the church, then you obviously need to genuinely earn such honor and respect. Don't throw up tantrums, while acting childishly. Act like a man, especially a Man of God. Use kind words, not harsh ones. Display love, not hatred for your fellow beings (men or women), including Christians. Honor your words, especially your promises and vows to serve, not twist and turn them to your whims and fancies. Be ever ready to repent and change to be a better person. Be ever willing to forgive others if really wronged by them.
Be ever ready to practise what you preach, and not be a hypocrite, pretending to be holy, but exhibit satanic actions and think evil thoughts. Use your God given talents and God blessed skills for goodness, not evil. Use them to build the Kingdom of God. Do not be tempted by power and money, they corrept your spirituality.
We believe there is still hope for CC and AOG, IF you follow and do the above.
We too seek God's forgiveness, for any wrong deeds or thoughts.
God be with you, always ! In God, we trust. Amen.
I am a teenager who has attented Calvary Church eversince I was born. It was at Calvary Church that i learned the word of God, learned how to pray and how to love and appreciate our Lord Jesus. I attended the carpenters workshop,Missionettes and eventually Royal Rangers. however,2years ago, my parents stopped attending Calvary and moved to another AOG church instead.It is only now that i come to realise that the reason why they did that is because they could sense beforehand that PG had something up his sleeves.
On behalf of all the youths from Calvary Church, it really hurts and confuse us to see our SP act in such a manner.It is at this very church that we learn values such as honesty and integrity. I have a friend,a fellow R.ranger, still attending Calvary Church. I asked her recently about her thoughts on this matter. She told me that at first, she did not want to believe the things that people accused SP of. She belived that her pastor,more so a Christian senior pastor, would do such a thing. However, once he started to show his guilt by refusing to step down and firing all who has opposed him, she began to see clearly the major flaws in SP's character. her only wish now is that everything will go back to normal and everything will be okay again.
And that is what all of us, youths, want of our church we love so well. we want everything back to normal so that we may once again learn God's word in Calvary Church.
When i was in school, my Islam friend asked my catholic friend and i which was the better faith, christianity or catholic? i, of course replied that christianity was better.however, my catholic friend opposed, saying that being a catholic is better because christians are full of corrupted dishonest pastors.i then asked what made him say that, he told me that he has read about what was happening at cc. i feel sad and angry that our christian name should be tarnish in such a way just because ONE man decides to do wrong.
So please, if u(SP) or any of his 'supporters' happen to read this, we youths beseech you to put an end to all your sinful wrong doings. I believe that God opened our eyes to this matter in hopes that u would repent and ask for forgiveness after all is exposed and u are aware of all your wrongs. so Please, for the sake of the church we love so well, put an end to this madness!! i believe that in your heart you KNOW that u are wrong. Maybe you're just scared that of the consequences or maybe your own HUGE ego won't allow you to admit you are wrong..But whatever it is, time is short.so PUSH aside ur ego.PUSH aside you fears of the consequences.instead, BOW BEFORE GOD and confess ur sins and REPENT!
I pray that God's presence will once against be restored to calvary..there is nothing else we all want more than that.
May God touch ur heart and open your eyes to all the sins you have commited.
It's time to let go of all the pride, let go of all the ego, let go of the status and perks, let go of the positions and titles and lay them at the feet of Jesus.
Let humility and lowliness of heart rule rather than selfishness and greed. May the Word of God pierce through PG's and BOD's hearts and allow the Holy Spirit to do a mighty cleansing work in them.
May the hardness of heart be broken by the mighty work of the Holy Spirit this Easter Sunday ...
Let God's sancifying fire come to the altars of CC and leave His holy presence...But repentance and contrite hearts must first be present, NOT arrogance and self righteousness as in the case of the learned Pharisees and chief priests in Jesus' time and now reflected in CC Senior Pastor, associate pastors and BOD of present days.
May God have mercy towards His people.
this easter as much as we would loved to spend with fellow cc , we decided to joined another church this morning.was surprised to see another 3 more families ..we later had lunch.. the main reason we had was not to give sp the illusion that he has the support and trust ..esp when he uses our attendence and photos from these celebrations to published and send to his would be donors ..that he has full backing of the members.
these photos . videos are used to LURED innocent people , we wish no partaker of this scum.
we remain same T O T T and continue to stay as members of c c .c c belong to the members not to SP .
it will come to pass, sooner or later he has to die...maybe crudely say, he is mortal just like you and me.
the question of aftermate what god does to him..or he does to god is belakang kira.
we must not allow endorse our presence to be abused by him and his cronies.
just as there is this saying, it rot from the fish head.
our yrs of saving given to teh church was for the well being of fellow members ..pooling togather for the welfare. for those who have emergency for the sick , operation education etc...but not a buliding to glamourized some body EGO. AND some profiteers.
turn off the tap.
Response to LPF:
I was much moved by your letter an prayed for you immediately.I always tell people who come to me with their problems-" Don't let one man or woman ruin your life.You are greater than that!" Of course, the easiest option for you would be to leave CC but I sincerly hope you would not do that.Why should you or anyone leave? You did not start the trouble at CC.Pray and leave it at the hands of God. I think something good is going to come out of all this.And don't be too grieved at what your Catholic friends said about Calvary.There are more nasty stories exposed about Catholic Priests too.No matter how gifted we all are- we are still human- ONLY VESSELS OF CLAY. Lets fix our eyes on Jesus- the Author and Finisher of our Faith.You are much loved by many Christians all over the country.The greatest battles will be fought inside the church and not outside it.May you grow in the Grace of our Lord Jesus Christ.
DEATH ROW MINISTER
disgusting.hilarious! when i read about c c and the sp , not forgetting those under HIS employment using members hard earned money to serve HIS own kingdom.
when i read abt the oversea working pastor, i feel CONNED.
After back-slided for years. I chose the wrong time to come back to CC!Somehow I feel so uncomfortable these days attending services as I feel that the SP and the other pastors are not sincere in what they say.And even if they are, I have this feeling that I just can't trust them. It's easy to say we do not leave the church but when someone like me is trying to come back to God and meeting these leaders, it really is very difficult.I thought I could ignore them and just concentrate on HIS word but somehow when SP asked for contribution to the building fund (Christmas service), I just felt cheated. How can he still keep collecting for something that is now on hold? Why won't he solve these problems first instead of asking for $$ and more $$? I really want to attend service but really this is causing so much confusion in me that I fear that even though my spirit is willing, the mind is telling me otherwise. I depend on public transport and because of that, am finding it difficult to find a church that is easily accessible and most important, that can be trusted.Can SP be blamed here for "killing off someone who wants to be revived in HIM? It's easy to say be strong but really if you are in my position, having left God for so many years (and I was not really a strong Christian then), it is not easy.
To anonymous at 4.56pm April 4:
Do not let what's happening in CC discourages you from coming back to the Lord. Men can fail us but our LORD JESUS NEVERS!
I suggest you write to the administrator of CT. I'm very sure many of us brothers and sisters (especially the ones that support TTG) would want to assist you.
I would like to dedicate this song to you and may you find peace and love in HIM:
"Turn your eyes upon Jesus."
O soul, are you weary and troubled?
No light in the darkness you see?
There’s light for a look at the Savior,
And life more abundant and free!
Refrain:
Turn your eyes upon Jesus,
Look full in His wonderful face,
And the things of earth will grow strangely dim,
In the light of His glory and grace.
Through death into life everlasting
He passed, and we follow Him there;
O’er us sin no more hath dominion—
For more than conquerors we are!
His Word shall not fail you—He promised;
Believe Him, and all will be well:
Then go to a world that is dying,
His perfect salvation to tell!
Watch the video in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHz-_QiAAVc
God bless you my brother/sister. On behalf of Him I welcome you home.
A man who had recently opened a shop had a large notice overhead which read FRESH FISH SOLD HERE. Along came a friend and said, "Why have you got 'HERE' on the board?" So he cut out the word 'HERE'. Then another friend came along and said, "'SOLD'? Of course it is sold. You are not giving it away, are you?" So out came the word 'SOLD'.
A third came along and said, "'FRESH FISH'? It has to be fresh. Who will buy stale fish from you? Cut out the word FRESH.
The shopkeeper obliged. Now only the word 'FISH' remained on the board when a fourth man arrived and said, "'FISH'? Fancy having that up! You can smell it a mile away." The shopkeeper erased this last word on the board.
A fifth man arrived and said, "What's the idea of hanging a blank board over the shop?" The shopkeeper removed the board.
A sixth man came on the scene and said, "You have opened such a big shop. Can't you hang a board on it with a notice saying, 'FRESH FISH SOLD HERE?'"
LISTEN, but don't follow. Listen well, but follow your own insight, don't follow others' advice. Listen certainly, very meditatively, try to understand what they are wanting to convey to you. They may REALLY be well-wishers, but if you start following blindly you will never attain to your own intelligence. You will remain dependent on crutches, you will always look up to others to tell you what to do, what not to do. You will always need leaders -- which is a very unhealthy state, to need leaders
Listen, because people have great experiences, and if they are sharing, willing to share, it will be foolish on your part not to listen. Sharing their experience may give you great insight -- it will help you to become more aware -- but don't follow. People follow literally and then they become just blind. When others are giving you all that you need, what is the need to have your own eyes? And when others are chewing for you, what is the need to chew on your own? Slowly, slowly you become more and more weak, more and more impoverished, more and more starved. how would you consider yrself strong? there is no such thing as back sliding..you set your own bench mark ..the current adminstration by sp and his enforcers,,does it mean they are the only authority to determine who be members who not to be? that does mean all these 400 regulars and contributors are sacked and they are deemed evil ? or they are rejected by god's grace and love?
this crisis is a blessing for you to investigate the truth how some people use god name to serve their own schemes of interest,and for you to know they are still LAST MAN standing up.
there is no pittance in yr perceived situation..either you walk on cruthes or you walk up.
I was a regular worshipper in CC for more then 20years.It saddens me to read, see and hear all that is happening. From what I read in the newspaper it is very shameful for our church to make headlines not for something good but for something very disgraceful …..not once but twice. I am sure there will be many many more. Before leaving, the last time I noticed that the church worshippers were decreasing rapidly. In the different ministries such as the choir, ushers…just to name a few. It saddens me deeply to see all have joint other churches and even sadder to know and see some has even stopped going to church altogether. I have heard of members saying....we have to face people outside church and they are asking what is happening in CC, why is your Pastor still preaching, has he no shame?….Hasn’t he step down while he can?....Why no authorities step in?..... All pastors are the same better stay home and talk to God then go church no point went all the pastors cheat our $.Tithes? Where does all the $$ go? ...... (I think somebody should publish a book called “Questions and Answer handbook for Christian” I will buy the 1st publication) .I was taught that as Christian we are not suppose to bad mouth the church.....When I speak the truth about what is happening in CC it saddens me deeply...Now that I know my scarifies is going for club/gym memberships, business class trips, luxury living, etc, I have stop giving to tithes, all the different pledges in CC but do more charity outside, at least I know where my $$ is going and I get to help the needy....tho it may be small but the satisfaction is there. Many small churches I visited are in need for $$ not for comfort but for basic needs for their church as for CC the $$ is there but SP does not know how to appreciate it (ie new carpet, new pews, new AV system – maybe somebody can enlighten us how much did it cost etc). Why do we need a big church (with member decreasing by the weeks) and why not more satelite churches. Do we need all the facilities in CCC when we won’t be utilising all the facilities everyday? Why not help the Caring Ministry went they are really in need for help (every Wednesday they feed and provide food and shelter for the people on the street and spread Gods word) even for the handicap which I notice they have not been attending church because they have no transport (cant CC provide them with a permanent Van?) or the Feeding Program (in KL-is has since been stopped), Missions (also got its Terms and Conditions – I do myself and I don’t need T&C just need $$), Calvaryland is for whom? (last heard that it has T&C-maybe that why it has less than 5 member the last time I heard) why not take the needy on the streets, abandon babies we hear from the news or even their mothers together as a temporary shelter until they are able to support their little ones and themselves or even start an orphanage or even an old folks home (full time and not like sunshine home-day care centre)(our members are not getting younger-show some appreciation to them after all they started our church. Even went we make a collection it does not go to the rightful people……but make someones (no need names mention as we all know who we are talking about-as the saying goes-siapa makan cili dialah terasa pedas) life even better then it is already…..
I pray that all will end soon before judgement day. Have a conscience and repent while you still can and do the right thing. Enough is enough the buck stops here.
it time to take charge our money our tithes. say NO TO ABUSE NO TO BUSINESS CLASS.NO TO CLUB MEMBERSHIP NO TO WASTAGE..YES TO THE PEOPLE IN NEED...! TURN OFF THE TAP !!
neighbor was saying, "Your cat was making an awful noise last night."
The other replied, "You are right. Ever since she ate the canary, she thinks she can sing." with a tan sriship ....that what sp is suffering from.,..why is he manipulating,,,he is ego over blown...he think he is god~~ he forgot it was god people who put him there..the same god people will take him down.
very true.we been conned left right centre and back.to serve sp ego...my uncle had already done his statuory declaration since 2003 he never been back to malaysia..he be flying back mid april with my aunty.
perhaps he be meeting some old friends ..may teh good lord protect us and deliver us from this tan sri CON MAN .
TERMS & CONDITIONS APPLY!
Yes, in CC under PG, Assoc & BOD indeed T&C are imposed in everything they do.
These T&C are not at all Biblical ones but are SECULAR--to ensure they get what PG wants
The plans & Vision/S PG pans-out are purely for himself, wife,children & grandchildren. He sure has it all figured out decades ago.( It all can be traced for nothing can be hidden in God's Kingdom)
No wonder he said to the Congregation "You Johnny comes lately!"
Signatories of Memorandum received letter from sec. of cc stating BOD has been advised by lawyer not to make any comment or response due to somebody file Injuction Application.
Who are they kidding? As if they wanted to make any comments at all in the first place. Now they can blame it on "certain persons" for their silence.
begging for money to complete the c c c was more to boast his ego, i am right you are wrong! what so spectacular of been a land mark in malaysia ? isnt it another white elephant? these money invested in those tar students ..at least we produce engineers accountants marketers pharmasist etc..that enhance this country.
does it matter they become christians ? on the ripple effect these could be our future members and leaders.
each time i see those plentiful of envelopes so obviously placed make me either so gulity i can help much or disgusting myb hard earned and saving goes to feed sp and his accomplice.
disgusting !
Christians: Lets learn how to bless one and another not encouraging people to leave church. And we must not touch the servants of God cos they sacrificied their life for the sake of God's mission.
Should there be any shortfalls, lets learn to pray and intercede for them and rebuke them in 'closed door' meeting (heart- heart talk).
Publishing disunity in the church will not help and does not glorify God at all. Lets learn to die to ourselves and learn the Christ ways.....In Christ we trust! God Bless!
If God is the epicenter of our life, we shouldnt be bothered by the so called 'sacking' cos no one could ever remove us from God's love. Can we not attend the Calvary church services if we are not a member? Who can stops us from loving God if we so believe that God is mighty in our lives?
Why are so bothered of how the funds in church were used when we do not even know how to respect God's servants? Even IF the servants of God falls into the temptation, the revenge is not ours BUT its GOD! Why take things into our very own hands and disgrace the Calvary church that we so loved?
Rgds,
Adrian =)
The sheep in CC have been fleeced for umpteen years. Yet the BOD and associate pastors say that PG and PG2 deserve the huge fat salaries and luxuries in life as they have worked hard. By whose standards?
What about many other churches in rural and remote areas in Sabah and Sarawak don't the pastors deserve a minimum salary to survive and feed their families.
Will PG and PG2 blink an eye to be concerned for their fellow workers in the field? They are only concerned for themselves, their children and grandchildren. They make sure they are well loaded with all the money to stay comfortably for a long long time.
Thanks to TTG that all these secrets are now exposed or else the CC sheep will continue to be fleeced for generations to come!
We should give to where it is most needed and take care of God's servants who serve and give their lives for the work of the Lord without expecting much in return. They serve out of love and compassion not because of comfort, money and recognition.
We refuse to remain as dumb sheep..we long to have a new and caring shepherd who truly loves God and who tends and feeds the sheep.
The CC SP and leaders' priorities are all wrong. Yet they refuse to repent and still hang onto power for dear life!
During the Easter Sunrise Service, PG made a tribute to those who were involved in the Easter Musical Concert. Being a nepotist that he is, he had singled out by specifically mentioning the names "Jim" of the Communications ministry and "Chris Lee" of the Creative and Arts dept. Tributes to all others were made generally except the florist.
Why did he mentioned Jim and Chris in his tribute? So that all credit will go to these two. If this is not nepotism, I wonder what it is. I thought I may had been a little too sensitive. However when I asked my spouse "Did you hear PG mentioned Jim and Chris by name?" She replied "Why must PG singled them out? You mean, the contributions by others were not significant?
Well, the Easter celebrations are over. After the musical presentation and sunrise service, what's next? The renewal of CCC's building pledge!!!
Rest assured. CC will again make it a grand affair. They will appeal and coerce you to give, give and give.
But what are we giving to or for? There are so many unanswered questions - what is the status of the problem with Nam Fatt; it's six months since Ps SK mentioned the work stoppage, what is the status of appointing a new main contractor; what is the overall status of the project as a whole; will CCC be completed in 2011 or 2012 so that it can be occupied. So many questions and until today, there are no facts and figures! We are only asked to continue giving blindly towards CCC without any direction.
Until CC comes up with hard facts and figures, what is the point of giving. In the midst of so much controversies regarding CCC, I for one, have stopped giving.
i like adrian comment..the rising of members been donors , been persecuted , disgraced and coerced to submit to the sp adminstration..if closed door heart to heart had worked..and sp n his gang listened to the people.today this blog wouldnt be here.
there must be accountabilty and rationality in expenses and money received.accountabilty.
if we give in the name of god without scrutinizing we are responsible.
this rising of people. the question asked ?
is this the work of god or devil ?
there is such word , commonsense!
being god servant could be his own in god name
havent be been forwarned ? by the fruit of his spirit...?
Re : CCC
I guess the silence from CC Leadership is due to lack of good news. If the new main contractor is to take over, they will want to make sure CC has the ALL the finance available.
As it is, CCC is still in fund raising mode.
TRUE STATUS of CCC
1. Original budget RM50 Million
2. then 'declared' RM150 Million
3. mid way revised to RM180 Million
4. now Stuck.. Main Contractor terminated and
lawsuits flying between CC, QS, Architect, and who have you..
5. MORE $$$$ Millions needed. ( at 2005 AGM a member who is an engineer foretold it would cost RM300 Million )
6. Its Completion postponed thrice (3 times)
and still leading the Congregation on with their lie.
ON-GOING:
PG& BOD continue to 'SPIN' nice stories that all is under control, when the facts are:
1. the Artist Impression of PG's fantasy "Space-
Ship" remains just an artist impression.
For over RM100 Million spent to date, the
"sanctuary" reduced to bare minimum with BOD's "Creative Value Engineering" will be the only "block" the members can hope to see if it ever.
a mere 20% of the entire CCC "Vision"
2. To date No one is held accountable for the
debacle.
( Strange, PG singled out Jim G at the Easter Service as "responsible" for the performance. How's that JIM G who is the PROJECT DIRECTOR of CCC is not openly 'recognised' and held responsible for his failure in his role and duties?)
3. it's a Financial Catastrophe that will bankrupt the
church which has been supported by Sacrificial
giving of faithful Members over last 40 years.
NEXT CHANGE:
CCC will be left abandoned.
and PG & families will 'be found' in USA where they make their new nest to enjoy their celebrity lifestyle while the BOD is left "to hold the baby".
from 50mil to 180mil ..does it mean the cost over run and now stranded..is god'S extended version of a bigger church or somebody ego?
130 million? and those imposters con man walked scott free?
perhaps somebody should organise a video tour on youtube .when politican tell u every thing is fine..next u wake up u germany attacked polland//when these high self professed priest tell u everything is fine..the next they be somewhere at another end of the world having caviars ..and start another scums.... this is frightening! we turn off the tap !!!
Dear Recap. Mind you the cost you mentioned has not included the following: 1. Sub-structure works: RM12 million. 2. Consultants fees: At least RM10 million. 3. Land cost: RM35 million. 4. Cost of AV and other fittings and fixtures: RM(I DONT KNOW HOW MANY) millions. SO THE TOTAL FIGURE IS YOU CAN ADD THEN UP YOURSELF.
What a big con job and the Board of Deacons are part of this whole soap opera.
They are so acty and hiding behind their glamorous roles as godly matured men and women of God supposedly to represent the members of CC but actually are mere puppets and "executioneers" of PG.
How about the associate pastors? They are very good actors and actresses too they appear to be innocent and compliant workers in God's field. But also being the arms and legs of PG to run all the errands and do PG's biddings as he so desires.
No wonder see what has become of CC leadership... it is empty and devoid of love and compassion, just merely going through the motions of Christian activities and ceremonies but having no spiritual depth and godly character in them.
At best they are followers of a human being with a huge vision and ego to build an empire for himself and his family. Yet the followers hero worship him and protect him with their everything and even their own lives! Why doesn't it display a cult following?
Calvary today, u dun like my comments ar that's why didn't post up?..AHHAHAHAH
alvin
HEARTFELT OPEN PRAYER TO GOD
Almighty God,
Please hear our collective cries, whether loud or silent, for Your Divine Help against the tyranny of PG and his wicked supporters, in CC, CCC, Calvaryland and other related issues. He was supposed to be our SP but look at the reign of terror he practised over we the sheep, over the BOD and pastoral staff.
Almighty God,
Please liberate us from this dictatorial scheming cult leader. Please break the bondage from the Satanic forces over us all. We surrender the whole situation to You O God. May You take total control of the current crisis affecting us all ! Please make CC whole again, as a thriving fountainhead church, and not as a church with ever shrinking congregation, due to numerous migration of grieving members. Bless those who left, broken hearted, to other churches. We also uphold in prayers those who daringly endure remaining behind, not to endorse and condone the evilness, but in defiance against those currently in CC's leadership, waiting for Your removal of the Devilish ones.
We also seek and pray for Your Divine Justice now.
Dear God, we thank You for this crisis, in opening up our collective ears and ears, discovering the deceitful schemes of the evil priest and his supporters, responsible for the current state of affairs in CC.
May You again reign as the Rightful King of Kings, and Lord of Lords, over CC and CCC again.
Amen.
This is my 2nd attempt to put my opinion regarding this issue from a neutral perspective..
i. it is right to voice out any alleged wrong-doings of leaders/members in the church..but do it within the confinement of the church and not air the dirty laundry in public gaining unnecessary 'publicity'..consistent with Paul's teaching. So it is unfortunate that the news were splashed all over the newspaper and even court cases issued from a believer to another believer..very unfortunate
ii. we need to ask ourselves about the intention and the purpose of giving our tithes/offerings..are we giving to our leaders or God? If your answer is GOD, then let the Lord deal with the leaders..it is not your battle..
iii. If unhappy you may seem, and seem to harbour such animosity towards the leadership, suggest to forgive for your own good and not harbour any bitterness and then move on if situation in the church does not improve. I'm not suggesting to run away from problems in the church, but if after all the necessary discussions were held, and if u still feel that nothing is being done right, should move on and not drag your feet...
Find peace in such difficult times..many brothers and your sisters are saddened by this episod..lets move on, shall we...
cheers
alvin
Dear ezra / alvin,
Your first attempt may have experienced some computer glitch along the way.
First response from CT to you is, in a situation like ours now, no body can claim to be "from a neutral perspective.." if you have the whole picture at hand.
To your item (i), please read the article, "PG Chickens Out" in the archives. PG even refuse the mediation effort of CC big time contributor / personal friend of PG's / prominent Christian in and out of M'sia and our very own AG Gen Superintendant, Rev Ong Sek Liang. So please tell us how to voice out "within the confinement of the church"??? Yes my brother, it is indeed very unfortunate, we agree, but absolutely necessary to get PG, the senior pastor of CC and the BOD's attention.
To your (ii) argument. There are many articles both here & in Berita Calvary that talks about giving, please take time to read. We give to God and that's why now many have decided to TOTT in CC but channel their money to more Godly causes.
BTW, we know this battle is not ours and we are not "fighting" for our own selves. Just a side tract, did you know Ezra was raised by God to bring back the Word of God to His people when the "present" priest did not do their job? God calls willing people to do His work. God raised so many prophets in the Bible to warn people who have strayed in their ways. Brother, it is because of God's mercy and grace that we are here doing this for Him. If God does it, it will be like the fate of Achan in the OT and Ananias & Sapphira in the NT.
To your (iii). We are unhappy with what the leadership have done and their continuous apathy to the current saga. We are not unhappy with them as individuals. Many are still our friends.
Thanks for your advise, we certainly will, "move on and not drag your feet..." because God is our leader, guide and captain. Everyday, God has led us step by step, and we are marching on in His tempo and He has not let us "drag our feet".
Brother Alvin, we know many are saddened because now many have to be real and face up to issues and tough questions. We have to get real with God and not just use His Name in vain.
Please take some time to read the latest article in the Berita Calvary, "A Call To Intercede For Our Nation." The Malaysian church has been complacent for so long, it is time to wake up and get serious and real with God.
We take God's calling seriously and if anyone of us are not willing TO BE USED BY HIM and drop out, He will raise someone else and if no one will heed His call - He will use the stones to speak for Him.
HIDING UGLY PAST, CAMOUFLAGING UGLY FACTS
Most unfortunately, there are still some people, especially including Christians, who feel embarrassed over news broadcast of wrongdoings of certain identified priests. They voiced that such "dirty linens" should not be exposed to public views. They suggested that such sensitive issues be discussed and settled behind closed doors.
Yet, despite all such reservations, and against traditional methods of repeated denials and displays of pretentious ignorance, being the head of the Catholic Church, Pope Benedict XVI, on Easter day, in the Vatican, bravely admitted to the truth about past sexual child abuse cases, by certain priests.
The point is that even the very reserved, tradition bound and orthodox oriented Roman Catholic Church, in the present 21st Century is prepared to admit weaknesses in some of its appointed leaders, to recognise the truth in the feedback and complaints from the public and its members, to be ready to take the rap for the sins committed, for those responsible to be exposed, and perhaps punished.
Surpisingly, the "band of brothers" among the AOG affiliation including NECF, decided to act like the proverbial TURKEYS, burying their heads in holes in the sand/mud/earth.
They and God only know why these "turkeys" chicken out. Perhaps they can't face the truth, perhaps they too are somehow involved in the spiralling conspiracy. Yet they realised that their deafening silence will only add fuel to the already flaming fire ! They are only interested in saving their own necks, not concerened about well being of the victims and sufferers of the wrong doings.
Learn form the Catholics, AOG leaders and priests ! Shame on you, hypocrites ! Practise what you preach.
TURN OFF THE TAP (TOTT)
"Turn Off The Tap" (TOTT) must be the most effective weapon, other than prayers, that the CC's current leadership understands and fears. Most noticeably the wide spreading effects of this strategy is already weakening the walls of the Satanic strongholds in CC. No tithes, no love offerings, no pledges, no faith promises, no to disasters donation drives. No other monetary offerings. No to their repeated demands for donations. No to their marketing appeals. No to their unBiblical request for our money.
(Up to now, we don not have the evidence and confirmation how our money is spent, how much is spent, how and why it is spent, when it is spent, etc.)
Lets tighten it even further, till the tap runs totally dry.
Very soon, the leader will have the whole building to himself and family. Let him play, play as "king' of his kingdom. Serve him right. After all, he kicked out four hundred plus members, who also migrated elsewhere with their family members.
No one can remain neutral in the circumstances before us. If you look at the development of events how can anyone remain neutral?
Won't one be like the priest and the Levite who turned away and walked the other way when they saw the badly beatened Samaritan?
The Lord taught us an important lesson, that we are to care for our neighbours and not do lip service to our walk as Christians. In the circumstances we are facing in CC how can we turn a blind eye when there is unrighteousness and injustice in God's house? How can we condone the spirit of lying and mismanagement of money raised in the name of godly service to the needy victims of Indonesian earthquake, or allow raising of moneys from the public but flaunted in different ways and spent without accountability to the donors.... all under the name of God and to build a sanctuary of worship.
If the leaders are not even responsible to members of the church how are they to speak out for injustice outside the church? Where is their credibility?
What is our worth as a follower of Christ if we remain neutral and indifferent in the values which Jesus hold so highly and require of His folowers?
Why do we require a lower standard of our church leaders when it comes to accountabilty, transperancy and church governance?
In fact our church standards should be even higher than worldly standards or else it makes a mockery of our belief.
May good sense and Godly fear prevail in CC members at all times and we don't shy from our responsibilties to speak out for what is right and pleasing before God. May the remnant in CC stand out for justice and godliness against the strongest opposition. CC altar desparately need to be repaired!
May God's presence fill His temple again BUT ...only when there is true repentance and remorse in the hearts of all concerned as is always the case in His Word.
Dear No place for Neutrality,
When Jesus told the parable of the Samaritan, He was bringing across a message of compassion. You, on the other hand are using that message to illustrate a matter of justice, and in my opinion is unsuitable.
Agreed with Good Samaritan
I wish to take this opportunity to thank the Christian brothers and sisters in the many other churches who have accepted and welcomed and helped the ex-Calvarites to move on in their walk with the Lord. In our confusion,raw hurt, bewilderment and suffering, you and your shepherds have helped heal our hearts and given us hew hope in what we can do for the Lord. We know that there are real and true servants of God in this world, and our faith has been strengthened by your grace and understanding. Thank you from the bottom of our hearts. At least, we don't have to feel that we are whipped and abandoned for standing up for the principles of Christ. We can see love, acceptance, compassion and embrace, and this is the Christ in you. Thank God for people on this earth who still exemplifies the character of Christ.
Hello Everybody,
PG & family must be laughing their heads off reading this. You guys are splitting hair over what the Good Samaritan means and you know what PG is doing now?
I heard that he is in the USA (at least for the last few days, maybe back by now to mark attendance tomorrow).
Isn't justice related to compassion. When you have no heart for justice, you can't have a heart of compassion. Similarly, if you have no compassion for others, you see no need to give justice due a person. So whether it means compassion or justice, the important thing is, has PG displayed any Christian character in this whole saga?
Remember guys, while we are here arguing for the cows to come home, he is still flying about to the US - in what class, you guess. For what purpose, you figure out. This is the main issue, what is PG doing to solve this saga? If he is not ashamed about his dirty linen, his wife still is seen shopping in boutiques, his daughter is still pursuing further studies (when some of us are struggling to get one kid through basic schooling), his grandchildren are all planning for overseas studies.
We are jokers to be here talking about compassion and justice - For PG and family.
Greetings to fellow blogger "Stop being the joker", please do not worry about retribution. Be rest assured there will always be justice on earth, for our God is The God of Righteousness.
So it does not matter an atom at all whether PG is flying 1st class or executive class or VVVIP class on whichever aircraft or even space craft to US of A, UK, EU or Timbaktu, he will not escape the Long Hands of Almighty God, to answer for His questioning.
Even if PG mtries to hide in Hell, God will seek him out. So don't worry, be happy ! Do not fret, be glad.
Good Samaritan,
Stop attacking the wrong person. You sound like some priest or Levite but have taken on a different name!!
You have to differentiate what is the spirit of the parable and the actual words. After all what is the moral behind it...isn't compassion also related to doing right and also fundamental to justice.
Aren't we talking about compassion (expressed in funds) to the earthquake victims so how can CC leaders be condoning PG for keeping the funds himself in CIM for whatever reasons! Morally it is not right and just either!
Why analyse and spilt hairs over words here? Get real with the pressing issues...Are PG, Associate Pastors and BOD doing the right thing? Are they the Good Samaritan or the priest and Levite? Where is the god fearing character in them?
Walk the talk and don't start throwing stones at the wrong people!
To 'Stop being the joker"
The reality is 'die hard' CC members continue to channel their tithes and offerings to the coffers while others had TOTT to CC and divert it to other worthy church causes. At this point, we can only pray to God for intervention in the proper stewardship of the financial resources that are channeled to CC.
SPIRITUALLY UNINSPIRING, FINANCIALLY DRY
While it may be temporarily true that some worshippers in the CC congregation,(especially newcomers, some others who have no access to CT and others who are not in contact with those in the know, being uptodate on the latests development, etc), may be innocently contributing to the CC collections, without apparent proper accountability and adequate transparency to members and public.
However, we have our reasons to think and believe very strongly that such contributions will continue to decrease as people wise up to the real disturbing situation, given the current style of CC leadership and type of management, viewed as allegedly unpopular and professionally lacking in increasingly many areas.
Don't believe it ? Just monitor the shrinking size of the CC congregation. Perhaps the rumored weekly "census" aka "head count" / "marking attendance" (every Sunday without fail) by the usherers and usherettes, besides serving the suspected purpose of keeping track of member's attendance / presence (vs absence) from CC, the tallying exercise is to keep track of decreasing congregation sizes, which in turn act as an effective indicator of "religious financial profits".
Congregation members are experiencing an all time spiritual low, taking samples of the spiritual food so uncaringly and viciously dished out. Ever noticed the depressingly poor quality of sermons at CC ? Wonder whether further psychological, physiological, physical and other symptoms suspectedly attributed to dropping financial profits will increasingly surface ? Awesome if you were to extrapolate the factors n your minds...
Bad weather ahead ... The low tides have arrived, perhaps very soon droughts ... ? Wonder how the leader (and his family) is/are taking it ? Imagine biting the hands that lovingly fed you, clothed you and sheltered you...all these years. Plus your wife and kids, and their in laws ... Just how evil you can get ?
More to come, "sir" ? Can you take what's in store for you and gang ?
For your information (FYI), for the benefits of those who did not and/or could not attend the Easter Sunrise Service, on Easter Sunday, at the National Hockey Stadium in Bukit Jalil, please note you did not miss much. In fact,we think you missed nothing, repeat, nothing. You were probably better off attending other churches' Easter services.
One glaring fact is that for this year 2010 Easter Sunrise Service, the attendance from all parent and satilite churches (DH, DP, Cheras, Ampang, etc) shrunk trememnously. We cannot help but be very shocked by the rows and rows, columna and columns of empty seats, signifying the missing CC members of the past congregations. PG tried to act normal, pretending not to notice this galting fact, staring at him in the face. Remember he was facing the "crowd" (read "handful) seated at the auditorium of the stadium. When Pastor SK tried to boost up morale, with "Hands up those from, DH, DP, Cheras and Ampang, the whole PR exercise fell flat in the face of the organsisers - because of the lack of sufficient responses. We were deeply saddened thinking of the vast financial wastage of church funds (congregation's hard earned money but contributed to CC) diverted to rent this large Hockey Stadium, when a venue like the Tun Razak Stadium might suit the purpose of seating us all better, like the previous years.
Equally sickening is the thought of CC organising committee's over budgetted and over ordered breakfast food and drinks prepard for the over expected big crowd !!!
Good money poured down the drain !
To make it a "memorable event", PG specifically picked only the names of Jim G (his precious son in charge of Audio Visual Dept) and Chris Lee (his precious son in law in charge of Music Dept) to mentioned in the public address, purposedly selected for for praise for "job well done". Oh yeah, this is depsite PG himself mentioning that the Visual system in the Stadium was not working, malfunctioned/unuseable. So brothers and sisters, what AV effects left to be done by Jim ? But of course must praise own son, right ? Even if he done nothing spectacular. Likewise, judging from the music and dance presented to the public, realy, honestly, nothing to shout about at all ! Anyway, still must butter up own son in law.
So now you know ...
Worshipper for 25 years say ...
Let fervently Pray and believe for the Spirit of God to move the presiding Magistrate on 14.4.10, to grant an Injunction to stop the 23 April 2010 AGM.
Also fervently Pray and believe for the Spirit of God to move the presiding Magistrate to exercise Wisdom and grant an Order in favour of the Plaintiffs's application via Originating Summons filed on 12 Nov 2009 ,which is set and fixed for Mention on 24.5.10 ! AMEN !
NECF & AOG COUNCIL :
WHY NO ACTION ?
WHY NO OFFICIAL STATMENT ?
Another precious week has passed by, gone forever into infinity.
Yet the AOG Council and NECF has todate chose to remain silent on the CC's request for their intervention and involvement on the current CC mega crisis, regarding particularly the URGENT NEED for TRUTH, TRANSPARENCY and GOOD GOVERNANCE as well as ACCOUNTABILITY and GOOD STEWARDSHIP in the church leadership in CC.
Leaders in the AOG council and NECF, please note the FACT that that YOU ALL, EACH AND EVERYONE OF YOU, are the officially appointed persons in your respective posts/positions in the AOG HIERARCHY.
TTG, its supporters and othewr concerned members of CC have approached you for your intervention and action on this urgent matter.
SO AOG COUNCIL AND NECF, PLEASE DO NOT SHIRK YOUR OFFICIAL RESPONSIBILITIES ANYMORE.
Please note congregations in AOG churches, Catholic churches, churches of other denominations, PLUS worshippers of other faiths
are watching your action, non action or reaction !
You cannot afford to remain silent forever ... ! You do not have such luxury. Remember, you owe it to we all the "sheep" in the AOG to right the numerous wrongs in CC.
Otherwise, don't blame us for seeking others for help.
Adrian & Alvin, if you are new to this blog please read through starting from the beginning to understand the issue and to find out what actions has already been taken. My reactions were similar to yours when I read the Star but after taking time to read through all the blogs and comments in CT(took me 2 months since I found out about this blog in February 2010)) I realised what needs to be done and said has already been done.
If you have been in cc long enough (30 years in my case), you will also realised that PG surrounded by Yes-man APs and BOD's misdeeds are not mere speculations nor false accusations. It was our mistake not to nip them in the bud because of "so called right Christian approach eg. do not judge, touch not God's anointed, we're giving unto God not men in our offering, etc..."
CT and TTG are members who are brave enough to stand up for Truth and Transparency. Many more members, too have answered this call. It's time to end hipocrasy, abuse of church funds and power.
I can't thank CT and TTG enough for bringing all this out in the open.
On the other side, PG and APs are still trying to keeps members and regular visitors in the dark, pretending all is fine. If anyone were "falsely accused", don't you think they would come out and answer to the accusation. A man of God would want to make things right with man, the church and with God and NOT REMAIN SILENT nor SILENCE THOSE WHO SPEAKS.
PG's reaction so far has more damaging effects on his own character and cc than all his previous misdeeds. Need I say more??
Thanks to Anonymous who reported to u about what happened at the Easter service. I was wondering if there will be large crowd. Thanks for the answer.
Brothers & Sisters in Christ,
If we know who Christ is, we need not fight the battle like this cos truly the battle is not ours.
ASSUMING that the pastor does not listen to the cries of the people (or misuse the funds), but you know what, our GOD will listen to our prayers! They are called to be pastors by the almighty God, so if they fail, they will be judged by rules of heaven. Not by our rules. So why we worry when our very own lives are in the POTTER's hands? Lets learn to SURRENDER the case to God....cos God never fails!
Battling like this does not glorify the Kingdom of God at all. Think about it; what will the non-believers think about Christianity when we share the Gospels to them? Will they still open up their hearts to God's messages after learning all these?
We could say that we love God thats why we fought against the ungodly servants; but think about it....Is this the way the children of of God should behave? Well, let God be God!
Love our enemies........ =)
Rgds,
Adrian
My dear Anonymous at 1.:15pm on 12th April 2010, I salute you .....
I hope that everyone else will be like you. I hope that before they shoot down CT & TTG, they should do their "homework" first, by reading the CT blogs (skip the comments) from the beginning, to understand the issues.
We are all mature Christians; many in the TTG have accepted the Lord more than 20 - 40 years ago. Did not the Bible say in James 1:5 "If any of you lacks wisdom, he should ask God who gives generously to all .....".
The Bible also say in Prov. 1:7 "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge, but fools despise wisdom and knowledge". And in Ps. 111:10 "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom; all who follow His precepts have good understanding ......".
I have heard that the TTG bunch are all God-fearing people, no wonder God has given them wisdom in this matter & He has favoured them in showing them PG's personal ministry's (CIM's) audited accounts (on 21st June 2008, in front of 4 deacons & PO) wherein is recorded that PG had moved RM 1.9m quietly from 2002 to 2007.
PG may have been forced to returned the RM 1.9m when the bank was forced to close the CIM account which was opened based on false information BUT the fact of the matter is that PG, as the SP of CC, HAD MOVED the money quietly to his personal ministry. Is this act not a conflict of interest? Is it not an act of Criminal Breach of Trust?
Is this how a man of God ought to conduct his affairs? Now let's ask ourselves the famous 4 alphabets, WWJD - What Would Jesus Do?
Think brothers & sisters, pray & ask God for wisdom on this matter so that you will NOT be hoodwinked & misled by the fallen one anymore.
Enough is enough.
At the bottom of Page 8 in today's The Sun newspapers is this article entitled ........
"DISMISS THOSE WHO COVER UP SEX ABUSE BY CLERGY"
The article read thus ....
"ROME: The powerful head of Italy's bishops, responding to mounting pressure on the Vatican, said yesterday those in the Church who mishandled, minimised and covered up sexual abuse of children should be dismissed.
Cardinal Angelo Bagnasco told Il Sole 24 Ore daily that paedophilia was a "heinous crime' and even more serious when committed by members of the Church .......".
Fast forward to the near future & dare we dream that we will see a similar headline & news like .......
"DISMISS THOSE WHO COVER UP MISAPPROPRIATION OF FUNDS BY PASTORS"
"KUALA LUMPUR: The powerful head of Malaysia's Christian churches, responding to mounting pressure on the NECF & AOG, said yesterday those in the Church & AOG/NECF who mishandled, minimised and covered up misappropriation of funds should be dismissed.
Rev. XXXXXX told The Sun that Criminal Breach of Trust was a "heinous crime" and even more serious when committed by pastors of the Church....."
Hope you can see the similarities above.
For years, Protestants have been mocking the Catholics; now the Catholics have STOOD UP for RIGHTEOUSNESS, for TRUTH & for GOD. Should we, Calvarites, NOT also STAND UP for RIGHTEOUSNESS, for TRUTH & for GOD?
Calvarites, it's your call. If you are not sure, turn to God in prayer & ask Him for wisdom to do the RIGHT thing, for He will give you the wisdom you need.
As someone who was there, the Easter Sunrise Service attendance was not bad, not bad at all. While the numbers may haven fallen, the reduction was really minimal- the crowd was still sizeable. Oh, by the way the crowd at the Easter Evangelistic meetings on Friday night and Saturday afternoon was also sizeable!
As for the breakfast food my impression was that there were not enough food - I should know as I was helping to serve breakfast. This is slightly different from the comment that food was over budgetted and money went down the drain.
Strange that similar events can be seen through so different eyes. I guess those who are reading this must come to your own conclusion.
Oh there is another blog on CC - I guess I better post this comment there as well.
Adrian, Adrian, when will you see the light? How can you say that the battle is not ours when we see our brothers and sisters unfairly removed as voting members, and gross mismanagement of God’s money carried out by the CC leadership? True, the Pastors in question may have once upon a time been called to serve by the Almighty God, but I think whatever anointment they once had has long been lifted (from looking at their fruits). I believe when the TTG revealed the ugly truth and filth which the leadership of CC desperately tried (and is still trying) to hide, they were doing it on the prompting of the Holy Spirit.
True, what’s happening now does not glorify the Kingdom of Heaven. But the Kingdom of Heaven will be glorified even less if truth, transparency and good governance is not restored in CC soon. Come on, don’t just assume that non-believers are stupid or blind and cannot see that the leadership of CC has failed. Just ask around your non-believer friends and get some feedback, as I have. If the leadership is allowed to continue the deception, CC will be the laughing stock in the whole country and the reputation of Christianity will take an immediate downturn. And that would be exactly what the Devil wants! I believe more harm will be done to the image of Malaysian Christianity if the leadership of CC is left to continue their ungodly acts. Furthermore, if it is left uncorrected, the situation may grow like a cancer and spread to other churches, and be 7 times 7 worst in time to come! Praise God for using the TTG group to do His will in such a time.
Incidentally, Adrian, do you realize that when you quoted “let God be God”, you remind us of the chanted mantra of a certain deaconess?
You said “love your enemies”. While I do not consider the Pastors of CC as my enemies, still I do love them enough to try my utmost to make them see the light and not continue the deception and in the process, grieve the Holy Spirit. And I am still praying for them.
if one ever read world war 2, how many people were just dungeoned gas shots and hanged,.how many children over night become orphans,,wifes become widowers, husbands legless handless..we just returned from seim reap working among 350 kids age ranging from 6 to 18. we had about 15 teachers age around 16 to 19 ..most of them high school students , a fellow iranian, koose and sam from holland . these are ordinary heros cycling 15 kma day visiting these attap make up class room teaching english.
when world war 2 came..many christians stood aside and prayed for god hand upon the people, some we christian leaders supporting hilters..many were just like adrian playing safe , the good nice guy.
the easiest thing in life is play nice guy, play safe play silent and leave it to god.
the hardest was taking action to defend , to premative actions to warn others of scums..one instantly become the devil , isolated and worse, the entire community treat u as though u are disease.
i believe here there are still brave brothers and sisters can stand like david.
from what we saw in cambodia..the 150 mil say 15 mil would have changes lives and make this world a better place.
the poor the deprived the hunger goes to war for food..education while adrian is sitting at this soft sofa , some strawberries ..perhaps hot chocolate milk shake....for c c , the time is now.
no more cheating us..be accountable for our hard earned money
cut he god talk . love talk .with satan ...u dont talk..u rebuke in the name of jesus.
every dollar we gave , we were pleased in cambodia .
i dont love my enemies i dont hate them either. i stay away from falsehood and walked notamong these crooks...if it is god will they prevail, then i be the odd one. last man standing against these con men .
if i have wrong ..then strike me down before this sunday.if not, we arise then.
Different Take, for whatever reasons best known to him, claimed that the overall attendance at the Easter Sunrise Service was "not bad" and "sizeable". We cannot help but wonder what he meant by "not bad" and "sizeable". What is "not bad" ? What is "sizeable" ?What sort of measurement is professionally used by him as a proper accurate gauge ? What did he actually meant ? Because we all who attended could see and confirm for ourselves, the actual turn out / attendance that Easter Sunday DEFINITELY was VERY POOR, VERY MUCH SMALLER than all the previous Easter Sunrise Services over the years at the same Hockey Stadium in Bukit Jalil. At least More than half, more like two thirds were MISSING. Does Different Take call that "sizeable" ?
In fact, even before reaching the venue, we had the uneasy negative feeling, worrying about the poor attendance of CC members turning up. We were particularly disturbed by the hard facts. Especially since more than 400 CC members had their membership removed by the present leadership. Based on calculated guess and estimate, naturally these 400 plus CC members
with their membership so brutally axed, would NOT BOTHER to attend 2010 Easter Sunrise Service. Don't forget besides these 400 plus members, for obvious logical reasons, WHEN, not if, they don't turn up, naturally their respective family members too will not also be presnt, thus REDUCING the size of the audience even further. Let us do a simple math calculation. Let us estimate the average household size of 5 persons (5 pax) per household. When we multiply 400 times 5, that is, 400 x 5, we get the answer 2,000. Translated, this answer can mean two thousand people being absent for the Easter Sunrise Service. Can this extrapolation be an logically acceptable and plausible explanation for the very poor attendance at the recent CC combined Easter Sunrise Service ? Plus some other CC members might have gone to other churches, like the rest. Let us also include disgruntled members who chose to attend Easter Services in OTHER churches, thus NOT attending CC's one. That Easter Sunday, the left wings and the right wings of the hockey stadium were totally devoid of spectators, nobody at all seating there, except for the very handful of dancers/performers temporarily seating, waiting for their turn. The whole section of the stadium direct facing we the audience directly was absolutely empty.
Please that even for the section where all of us were seated, as directed by the CC ushers, ther weremany EMPTY seats, rows upon rows being sparsely occupied.
So, DIFFERENT TAKE, what do you mean by "the reduction was minimal" ? We seek your clarification, please...
Please stick to the truth, not distort it. Many others who were present, were and are all witnesses to the whole event. So do not mislead people.
We all know it's a 100 per cent real fact. It's the absolute truth that the leadership and you cannot hide or distort.
BTW, one other significant factor that you perhaps so conveniently failed to mention is that NO FOOD TABLES were provided this year. Very very interesting observation by us all. Could it be a strategy by the leadership to hide the wastage of over ordered food and drinks ? There was most definitely excess food and drinks.
Wasted money down the drain for over spending, renting such a huge grand stadium. Plus the perishable food totally wasted.
But then, it does not bother you know whos a bit. It's coming from the sheep's money, not from their pockets. But it's their to spend. why bother ..., right ? After all, it's a RICH church. Plenty to tap from, at least for the moment. No laughing matter, we assure you.
Worshipper for 25 years say ...
yoong said.....we just returned from seim reap working among 350 kids age ranging from 6 to 18.
Keep up your good works! I do hope the CC church leaders, APs, AsstPs , Decons, Elders have obeyed the Great Commission as you have set an exemplary testimony for us to remember the Lord GOD provision for His Children in Malaysia.
The Lord GOD will answer your intercessory Prayers and Cries from the deepest of your heart. AMEN !
To "Anonymous said on Apr 5, 2010 @ 12:18pm" who said,
"Why not help the Caring Ministry went they are really in need for help (every Wednesday they feed and provide food and shelter for the people on the street and spread Gods word)..."
I agree wholeheartedly with you on the need to help support the Caring Ministry in reaching out to the homeless. For their work with the street people, the Caring Ministry needs funds. I was told by a friend that these helpers have to solicit their own funds to buy rations.
I am in no position to say why CC is not supporting this ministry financially but I do know that the Caring Ministry financial support. Some of the workers were known to have even dipped into their own pockets to buy rations to feed the street people.
If you can, lets be of a blessing to the street people and share God's blessings with them.
God bless
Responding to Different Take.
Around this time last year, someone said that he noticed the CCC had stopped work. No sign of the machines being used at the site and there were very few workers seen on site also. BUT one PG's fan came in and bombarded that person maybe even calling him a liar (i hope i remember correctly). PG's fan even said he lived near CCC and can see workers working and work has not stopped.
Then what happened? SK went up and announce that worked actually stopped. So PG's fan was either seeing "things" or was lying.
Now tell us "attendance was not bad, not bad at all. While the numbers may haven fallen, the reduction was really minimal- the crowd was still sizeable." Well I know for sure, at least 400 (maybe 500) members, plus their family, were not there and you say reduction in minimal? What does "sizable" mean?
By my calculation, it would be something like this - 400 axed members won't be there + 200 with spouse + 200 with 1 child = 800 person. Our church had attendance of 3,000 before this saga?
3000 - 800 = 2,200 attended. I suppose 800 drop is minimal and 2,200 is sizable for a MEGA CHURCH with a world renowned internationally known pastor on the most important service in the Christian calendar. You must be very new to CC, to even think that a gathering of 2,200 people to a CC event is "sizable" because we have seen what CC was like before this.
Then comes to the food bit. If what you saw was a situation with not enough food, then the leadership must have acknowledge and was expecting a drastic drop in attendance? They must have ordered less by 1,000 packets in order to have a shortage of food. Or could it be that you did not look further than your own table? (which most likely would have been near the entrance)
You said it is strange but I don't see it as strange at all. One piece of cake to a child is very sizable but to an adult is not sizable at all.
Like I said earlier, a report was given by a reader on CCC and was shot down in the same way you are doing with this report on the Easter service. And by experience, PG's fan seem to have given a wrong report so I have doubts about yours.
Easter service has not been held in DH for a long, long, time. Why?
PG expected low attendance. Can't fill up Putra Stadium, Bukit Jalil but still can fill up DH. Also make it "one night only" instead of 3 consecutive nights.
Sunrise service can't be held in DH cause neighbouring houses will complain. No choice but to hold in hockey stadium. Maybe members & guests still too sleepy to notice the empty seats in the dark and also use spotlights to "blind" the audience.
See STAR METRO dated Friday, 9th April, 2010 Page M34 and Http:/thestar.com.my. Just like someone has described, the photo showed the seats left, right and directly in front are empty.
DIFFERENT TAKE is not lying BUT cleverly twisting words to cast doubts. "Not bad" can also mean "not good". "Sizeable" can be S, M, L or XL.
BTW, seems ironic to me that PG chose the theme "a Happy Day" and performers wearing masks.
Dear Adrain,
When you're sick, no need to see doctor, pray and God will heal.
No need to work for a living, too, just pray and God will feed, clothe and provide shelter.
No need for the police, just pray and ask God to take away the crimes in the country.
No need for the court, just pray and God will see that justice is done.
No need to give money to cc, just pray and God will provide.
No need for pastors, just pray and God will meet all our spiritual needs.
Need I say more??
to much churching either make us more stupid or perhaps too much listening we become robot. with all these cell meetings sunday service and many other activities...it seemed we stop asking question anymore.
sp and his "graduated" pastors seemed to have answers for everything...i wonder , what they dont know??
Anonymous,
In response to Adrian Lim. You have a very low understanding of spiritual righteousness. There are times,when God works through us. You cannot just pray, then keep silent and do nothing and let God had the privelege of doing something good for us. God doesn't work that way. He will only move and guide us along the way when we take the first step of obedience to act, like what CT is doing in restoring justice for its members.
Does God called or annoint anyone to be His servants(pastors) these days? I don't believe so. Did SP or any of CC pastors being actually called by God to be HIs servants? I wonder how did God called them? Did God talked to them and called them like He did with Abraham and Moses? Surely not. Looking at their ungodly behaviour with no sense of guilt or any willingness to accept truth, would you think God would called such people to be His servants? To me, God never did called anyone of them. They are all "self-proclaimed" or by the "impulse of men." I don't think there is such a thing as God personally called anyone to serve HIm these days. Rather I would say, if one makes a choice and choose to serve God full time, then this is his decision but not a 'call by God'. God on the other hand will not say yes or no, but He accept when one so decide to serve Him. There are many misunderstandings of this thinking of 'being called by God.' However, this is my personal views, others might see it differently, that is their right.
What I am saying is if we agree that pastors are appointed servants of God, let God judge them if they fail to abide by the standards of God! Who can gladly tell me that it is Biblical that you had received the order and revelation from God to teach these servants of God a lesson?
Well, if you can say that....I hope God will bless you. Cos my God does not teach me to overthrown the leaders that He appointed. Having said that, it doesnt mean that the pastors are immune to God's punishments if they fail to abide by HIS WORDS. If God can put them in glory so it is vice versa. We Christians do not live by bread alone but by every Words that proceed from the mouth of God! Those who lives by the swords will die by the swords but we(Christians) live by the WORD of GOD! Pray for the pastors even if they have wronged you cos that is how the children of God behave......You think our God wont take heed if we start to bug HIM in prayers? Where is all the trust and respect for God's sovereignty?
If we choose to retaliate to the wrong doers in such similar way, then what difference are we from these so called 'unfaithful servants of God"?
The point is what is the impact to the Christians community if this blog continues to publish such disgrace? More blessings or damages? Think about it.
We need wisdoms to handle this situation wisely.....The intention of revealing the mismanagement(if it exist) was bravely commendable but the way of doing it does not glorify God! Hear me correctly dear brothers and sisters. Please disregard my comments if you think that what you are doing is correct. After all we are adults, mature enough to gauge what is right and wrong in our behaviors.
May God Bless us! ^_^
Wearing Mask is typical of all CC leaders .. no wonder the leadership chose this as the feature for the Easter do.
We find that CC pastors and BOD are very skilled in putting on masks. Until now they have been pretending all is fine with CCC and hence ever so eager to continue with their fundraising program.
But in fact, CC should have long progressed to the stage of finishing the project and moving into the new CCC landmark fountain head church with the rainbow skyline falling onto the lobby area!
So sad that the much publicised state of art building is taking so very very long to come into fruition. Seriously one must wonder if it is one man's vision or God's vision?
With all of PG's and BOD's cover up and camouflaging of real concerns the truth is slowly unfolding!
If it is God's will and plan no opposition can deter the works, but if it is NOT GOD's WILL and plan then NO amount of human efforts and perseverence can make it come to past.
Brother Adrian - you are still missing the points!!
Bro Adrian,
You are indeed missing the points and need to read the bible on good stewardship and don't be so blur case.. So sad we still have this type of tak kisah attidude..
adrain is plain underaged. leave it as it is. some take sometime to grow up ...sp claimed he was appointed by god and by the fruits of his doing ...it sour bitter .read king david and other in the old testament..it happened then ..its happening now.
here, 4 families will turn of the tap and any avenues to recover my saving..!
by these publicities and this blog..as we read through .what do we get? there is no financial rewards, tan sri ship no claps on the stage .we get sacked, we been termed satan's SWAT team and many others names.
most of us are professional having our business . we dont need any of these.except ACCOUNTABILITY AND TRANSPARENCY OF OUR MONEY.
i am not interested in adrain , but seeing the efforts of some members going to serve in cambodia n work among the kids.that is action.
we can argue on ideas till the cow come home..there are people outside under feed, no proper education ...no proper clothes.that matters right NOW. WE TURN OFF THE TAP AND offer our saving for these people. buliding are just concrete bricks for ego trip. it dont talk feed and warmth touches . i am indeed stupid how we allow ourselves to be conned in the name of the lord. all these yrs of education and workin..maybe we become stupid .we been brainwashed . i am laughing at myself .
My wife and I were at the hockey stadium for the Sunrise Service.
I certainly concur with those who had observed that the attendance was smaller than previous years.
I arrived at the stadium at about 6.00am and traffic wardens directed me into the car park beside the stadium and there were a number of unoccupied parking lots. In previous years, at this time you have to park at the car park across the road.
During the service, I also observed that the wings on the left and right were devoid of people. I remarked this to my wife and she concurred with me.
Certainly there was enough food! You can have second helpings or even third. I had also observed when the crowd was staring to thin out that there were a few rattan serving baskets filled to the brim on the tables next to the servers - ta pau. No, I am not creating an issue here. Don't waste good food. What I am trying to say is that there was more than enough food.
In conclusion, definitely, the attendance at the Sunrise service is smaller than in past years and nothing to shout about.
Oh, somethings never change. My wife and I distinctly heard PG mentioned Jim and Chris by name when he spoke of the musical presentation. Well, after all, one is Prince Jr. and one half a G. It is always the G's that comes first before anyone else. Reading the Extended Ministries Report, it's a dynasty! AIM head - Director, Pam, Calvary Book Corner - Director, Jim, Communication - Director, Jim, CLM - Director, Pam. Head of all other ministries are not designated as directors. Oh almost forgot. Jim is also the Executive Administrator or is it Project Director for CCC (though he is technically and in experience unqualified and incompetent to handle a project of this size but he is a G). Reminds me of the soap operas Dallas and Dynasty.
Worshipper for 25 years say ...
Let's remember and Believed and fervently Pray for the Spirit of God to move the presiding Magistrate, tomorrow Wednesday 14.4.10, to grant an Injunction to stop the 23 April 2010 AGM.
Let's exercise the gift of "Discernment of the Spirit" to stay focus on the REAL Issue at hand as the battle is actually spiritual in nature. Let's Claim victory in Jesus Name. AMEN!
Anonymous,
Response to Adrian Lim. From the way you talk, I think you are a young christian. Perhaps you do not know the whole picture of whats is actually happening with the CC pastors & BOD leadership. I suggest you better get more knowledge on the actual circumstances surrounding the CC leadership crisis and be in a better position to comment. As a christian brother, I do not like to see you being deceived by them, as I and many others have been.
sp dynasty to build c c c was more of his own ambition to be the 1st mega church in malaysia..if one had knew his background education was more or less unqualified and not recognised in the top 200 universities..the doctorate and tan sri ship was endowned upon by the contribution of the members..without the members he is nobody.
a short phrase:Ambition produces envy. Ambition is the result of the desire for power and position, for personal advancement, political and religious - politically in the name of an idea of the future or of the present, and spiritually in the name of something equally good or equally bad. We have known such ambitions - to be somebody, to be dominating people in the name of peace, in the name of Master, in the name of God, and heaven knows what else.
isnt that what happened last 20 yrs?
Dear Bro Adrian Lim,
Greetings in the name of the Lord.
I know you do care a lot about CC and more so the Kingdom of God. Would you be happy to meet any of the TTG supporters to find out 'the other side of the story?' This is to help you understand the whole situation and then make a better judgement. I was once like you, in a way 'condemning' the TTG group before getting the real picture. But after listening to their side of the story (and of course the APs and Deacons as well), putting all the jigsaws together, I made my decision. Never regretted since then.
One question I always ask myself, "what has the TTG group to gain by exposing and going through this whole saga?" On the other hand, to be fair, I also ask this question, "what has PG (his family members included), APs and the Deacons to gain by not allowing this whole saga to be exposed?"
I meant no offense to you and any of my Christian bros and sis, I remember reading something like this, "majority of the Christians leave their brains outside when they go to church." The only reason I could think of about the truth in the statement is maybe because we have been too trusting, obedient, told not to question (touch) God's anointed etc.
Well Bro Adrian, at the end of the day, we have to use our knowledge, wisdom and discernment, which are all made available by the Lord. Are we Christians only asked to pray and fold our arms?
Once again Bro Adrian, if you seriously want to find out the truth about the whole saga in CC, I'll be glad to make arrangement for you to meet the TTG supporters.
Take care bro & God bless.
"the point is what is the impact to the Christian community if this blog continues to publish such disgrace? More blessings or damages? Think about it." -- by Adrian
Dear Adrian, I have long thought about this, long before you appeared in this blog. The answer is "MORE BLESSINGS" not only to Christian community but a GREAT TESTIMONY to communities of other faiths.
We are called to walk in the Light, therefore how can we condone wrongdoings, more so, sweep them under the carpet and hide the dark secrets within the confines of the church? I don't think any God fearing Christians, even non-believers could do it in clear conscience.
I believe you meant well but you don't have to worry about saving face for Christ and the church. We are living in an age where people across the globe is crying out for truth and transparency, not only in the secular world but also in religious communities. If we chose to 'hush, hush' we are nothing but a bunch of hippocrates and liars. Who can trust the church then?
Adrian, you continue to do what you do best, PRAY. Please pray that God will open up our eyes to see the truth, expose the wrongdoings and heal cc.
‘Know the truth, the truth will set you free!’ rationalized well when he pointed out that the TTG group has nothing to gain by exposing the saga, whereas PG and cronies has if there is no exposure.
I wish to add, however, that the leadership has a reply to this line of reasoning. I have been personally told to the effect. Their angle is that irrespective of who gains from the saga, the Devil is cunningly using the TTG group and concerned members to cause upheaval and discord in CC. And the TTG group has unknowingly and innocently been misled and used to do the Devil’s work.
On hearing this, I started thinking deep. I finally came to the conclusion that the Devil definitely has a hand in this whole long-drawn saga. The only question is – whose dealings is the Devil’s hand in - the CC leadership or the TTG group? Now, just take one example, God certainly would not want to divert humanitarian funds into a “personal ministry” to be used for personal extravagance such as flying Business class. Hence, is it likely that the Devil’s hand is in this? You conclude yourself.
poor devil everything he is victimized...let have some self honesty and looked at ourselves..when this c c c was launched all of us were part of this party.we were the willing party and sp was just a super saleman.when things got off hand..some woke up some stood up .cut the crap of using god s name and passing the hot ball to satan.
we are sound minded educated and throughout the process, we were always open for objection.but we did not .
reading thru this blog,..much been said much been done .either we shut up or we get involved with 400 families .
as for my family, we turn off the tap.
we wait for the injunction .meanwhile, we are still christians and will continue to fellowship with other light minded.
as for adrain, let it be as it is.
To "not a fan of PG" :
It was interesting to read how you calculated the drop in attendance at the Easter Sunrise Service.
The recorded head count was not more than 1,700 so we could have had the service in the Tun Razak hockey stadium and it would have looked full.
We totally agree with Anonymous said to "Not a fan Of PG" that "we could have had the service (viz Easter Sunrise Service) at the Tun Razak Hockey Stadium". We pointed out exactly that fact in our earlier blog. But then PG always loves to perform things on a GRAND SCALE, ao therefore chose Putra Hockey Stadium, at Bukit Jalil, rather than the more sensible, practical and ECONOMICAL choice of Tun Razak Hockey Stadium at Jalan Duta, Kuala Lumpur.
Anyway, it is the CC's congregation's money that was wasted. It did not hurt him a bit not at all, since he need not pay a single sen for the rental of the huge Putra Hockey Stadium. He must have learnt his marketing and publicity tricks very well from his American, Singaporean and other foreign counterparts. Money is no problem, everything must be GRAND.
Enough said. Turn off the tap.
1. 'Cos my God does not teach me to overthrown the leaders that He appointed.' - Brother Adrain
My reply - Ya it's true, in fact, no one here wanted to 'overthrow' PG initially, but u gotta read thru all CalvaryToday's blog (I please u, so we'll spend less energy on u), initially we asked for Transparency ONLY, then PG overthrown himself by avoiding such events, running away from what TTG asked..why running?
2. 'the point is what is the impact to the Christian community if this blog continues to publish such disgrace? More blessings or damages? Think about it.' - Brother Adrian
My reply - which of the following damage would impacted Christianity the MOST?
a) Exposing wrong-doer and walk on God's word, showing non-believers that EVEN SP are not allowed to do wrong things. Or
b) Keep it to ourselves, outsider knew it, people saw something not going well, BUT we Christian buy the entire bullshit? And the non-Christian says :Oh, Christian can do things without transparency, for them it's lawful.
??
'See the light' thank you very much for sharing your personal encounter with what the CC leadership said. I think you should have put your identity as 'SAW the light' because you indeed saw the light! Ha ha ha.
So, are the leadership of CC trying to say that the Devil is cunningly using the TTG bros & sis when they exposed:
1. the transfer of funds of RM1.9 mil to PGs personal ministry without the members' knowledge;
2. funds collected for Indonesians not given;
3. misrepresentation of CIM to NECF by PG;
4. special perks to PG & family but not other church staff;
5. PG traveling on Business/1st class;
6. PG membership in fitness centre paid by the church;
7. the escalating cost for ccc;
8. (the list goes on and on)
So, let us think for ourselves. Let's place all the facts on the table and make an analysis. Black is black, and it can never be grey. Let us not be counted as one of those who 'leave our brains outside the door when we go to church'.
item 1 ,2 and 3 is good enough ,perhaps the adminstrator should show some evidence at this bog..payments ,bank in slips and even any dcmts.without these, sp and gang will continue to twist anything ..sacking 400 members,,what he cannot do since he is already crooked!!
in the final analaysis, this fruits of his spirit is judged.
the amount of effort to start this blog is no easy task...we say tnahk you for this beacon .
as genesis put it rightly, there are already evidence of funds abuse by sp and conspirators within the church, it been openly rebukes suffice at many meetings.
i am interested in the big money moved to his private account.this must been going on for many years.it must have started with small money, life become good..branded clothes ..high flying life style , prestige but..mind you, sp ..THIS IS NOT YR HARD EARNED MONEY ..ITS OURS.
WOULD APPRECIATE THE INFORMATION BE POSTED HERE .THANKS
City Harvest Church member Simon Teoh, an investment banker, is critical of where the $310 million investment by City Harvest Church into Suntec will go.
He wants to know how much would be spent on the lease and how long it would last.
Troubled by the church’s response not to answer such questions on the grounds of a non-disclosure agreement with the consortium. Mr Teoh has called for more accountability and transparency from the Church.
He wrote in to the Commissioner of Charities asking for the confidentiality clauses to be rescinded and that City Harvest Church would amend its Constitution so major business deals can be put to a vote among ordinary church members.
We publish the entire letter from Mr Simon Teoh to the Commissioner of Charities here.
Dear Commissioner,
I am writing with respect to the City Harvest Church investment and expenditure of $310 million for the purchase of shares in a company which owns 80% of Suntec Convention Centre and the rental of exclusive areas of the same (plus related moving and renovation costs). This was reported in the Straits Times twice over the last two weeks, including the recent queries raised by your good office.
As a member of the public and the church, I like to highlight to the Commission that todate, members (both non voting and voting) of the church have not been apprised by the Management Board of the church (“the Board”) of the salient terms of the $310m planned expenditure/investment.
Instead, the Board is pressing ahead with utilising the church’s Building Fund (totalling $65 million as end Oct 2009) and committing the church to large future liabilities ($245 million, being the difference of $310m and $65m in the Building Fund) without consulting the members/executive members at the recent AGM. No EGM has been scheduled and I am led to believe that the deal is closed.
In addition, over the last two weeks, the Board has been seeking financial commitments/pledges from its 30,000+ members to raise monies to meet the said liabilities. I do not think this is ethical, especially considering the large number of minors and vulnerable members (eg old, uneducated) in the church.
The excuse given at the recent AGM and in the public sphere for the lack of disclosure is that the Board is bound by confidentiality clauses in an agreement with the Sellers and / or Suntec management. I believe that as a large, public organisation, the Board should not have agreed to such clauses in the first place.
Although the Board is authorized as per the church’s constitution (which I only recently learnt) to commit to any expenditure it deems fit, I believe this “carte blanche” authority and the Board’s poor judgement in agreeing to the confidentiality terms with the Seller runs counter to best practice standards of disclosure and transparency as per the Commission’s code of governance for charities and IPCs (Code).
I quote section 1.3 and 8 of the Code (emphasis made are mine)
note : quote section 1.3 and 8 of the Code (emphasis made are mine):
Section 1.3: Accountability to Donors
“General Principle: The charity and its fund raisers should be accountable to their donors for the donations received
1.3.1 The Charity and its fund raisers should ensure that donors received informed and ethical advice about the charity, intended use of donation, value and tax implications of potential donations”
Section 8: Disclosure and Transparency
“General Principle: As the charity operates with public support through both donations and the use of volunteers, it should be transparent in its operations to maintain the integrity of serving for public trust and community good instead of personal gain. As such, the charity should demonstrate its openness to the public by providing the public with information about its mission, structure, programmes, activities, performance and finances.”
some thoughts ,,,they must have been coached by sp ?
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