Calvary enters JV with property developer
After banks reject loans to CCC
At the recent EGM of Calvary Church held on 23 September 2011, the Board of Deacons announced that all their recent loan applications to various Banks to finance the construction of the Calvary Convention Centre (CCC) have been rejected.
Previously, the Church had only managed to secure a RM35 million loan from Alliance Bank and a RM8 million loan from Public Bank. However, the Church is still short of at least RM75 million to complete the project.
The wasteful RM300 million project (Phase 1 and 2) has been plagued with problems after problems since commencement of works. Despite the recent fanfare of the cornerstone-laying ceremony at the site, the ability of the Church to complete the CCC remains in doubt.
Having failed to secure additional Bank borrowings, the Church is now embarking into a Joint Venture with a small Property Developer to develop the 1.75 acre commercial land adjoining the CCC site to build Serviced Apartments. The Developer, Exsim Development is a relatively new industrial park Developer with 2 on-going industrial developments in Bukit Rimau and Kota Damansara. Recently, they ventured into their first condo development at Bukit Jalil called the Treez.
The Joint Venture between the Church and Exsim has been disguised as a sale of land at a highly inflated price of RM55 million with payments staggered until 2015. Deacon Zoo Gin admitted during the presentation that the market value of the land is only about RM17 million. From this, it can be inferred that the difference of RM38 million represents the profit share from the proposed apartment development.
The obvious reason to camouflage the Joint Venture as a sale is for tax planning purposes (defined as the legal form of tax evasion). The other reason is aptly said by Senior Pastor Prince Guneratnam (PG) at the EGM that “we do not want to be seen as going into business”.
Zoo Gin claimed that the Board had consulted a Tax Agent on the tax implications of the sale and the Tax Agent has opined that the sale transaction, although at inflated price, falls under the Real Property Gains Tax and therefore, the gain is not taxable as the Church has held the land for more than 5 years. (If the sale proceeds is recorded as profit share from property development, the entire RM55 million less the original cost of land will be taxable.)
Zoo Gin clarified that the land title will be transferred to Exsim only upon full payment of the RM55 million. Should this be the case, then when the Apartments are sold, the individual Sale and Purchase Agreements will surely state Calvary Church as the Landowner and Exsim as the Developer.
In such a scenario, how then, is the Church going to convince the Tax Department that this arrangement is not a Partnership or Joint Venture and should not be taxable? PG and his Deacons may fool the members but can they fool the Tax Department?
This commonly used strategy of hiding profits from property development in marked-up Sale and Purchase Agreements can easily be challenged by the Tax Department. The Church will run the risk of public exposure and a fine but the worst consequence is the embarrassment it will bring to the Christian community.
The Calvary-Exsim Deal
Exsim will buy the land for RM55 million on a staggered payment basis as follows:-
Upon signing the Sale and Purchase agreement, Exsim pays the church 2% of Purchase Price equal to RM1.1 million. This earnest money is refundable should the Development Order (DO) for Apartment Development not be approved by DBKL. In such an event, Zoo Gin said that with the refund to Exsim, the status would be back to square one.
Exsim will pay the church RM13.0 million in February 2012 from a Bank loan which Exsim will obtain by charging the commercial land to the Bank. Exsim will bear the interest cost on this RM13.0 million loan. This will be a Third Party Charge as the land title would still be in the Church’s name. By this time, the Church would have received RM14.1 million but the land would have been charged to a Bank. Deacon Zoo Gin told the members that this is OK because the land was bought for RM7.0 million and the present value is RM17.0 million.
Exsim will pay the Church RM2.0 million a month from July to December 2012 totalling RM12.0 million and the balance of RM28.9 in quarterly instalments from March 2013 to December 2015.
In addition to the RM55.0 million, Exsim will make a donation of RM1.5 million to the CCC building fund. This donation will be paid in 2013.
The reason why Exsim was chosen
Zoo Gin informed the members that they had 3 proposals from 3 parties namely Seal Group Bhd, E & J (the contractor doing the reinforced concrete work for CCC) and Exsim. Seal Group Berhad did not turn up for the interview because they could not meet the Church’s requirements while E & J is merely a Contractor and not a Developer. Zoo Gin claimed that no other Developer was interested although invited. Therefore, Exsim was the only option.
Zoo Jin said that they have checked Exsim’s financials and found their financial strength to be “sufficient and acceptable”. A member asked him to elaborate with figures. He declined saying that it is not appropriate to disclose at the public meeting. Either he had something to hide or he was simply ignorant of the fact that private limited companies’ financials, shareholders and directors’ details are in the public domain and can be easily obtained from the Companies Commission.
Who is going to bear the risk should this JV deal not work?
Exsim has a very good deal. They only pay a refundable deposit of RM1.1 million for the option to develop the land with absolutely no risk. Even if they take up a loan in their own name to pay the Church the second payment of RM13 million, they are not at risk as the collateral is the Church land. The risk is on the Church. In the event of a default in loan repayment by Exsim, the Church will have to come out with the money to repay the bank or stand to lose the land.
Even if the DO is obtained, there is no certainty that the Apartment Development will sell. In order for Exsim to pay the Church RM55 million and still make a development profit, Exsim will have to build about 400 apartments and sell them for at least RM750,000 each to generate a gross development value of RM300 million, based on an average development profit of 30%. That is certainly a tall order for that locality and during a time of anticipated severe economic downturn by the time the apartment project is launched. If Exsim does not make profit, then the Church may not receive the full sum of RM55 million.
With such risks and the uncertainty of getting the full payment of RM55 million, why then is PG and his Deacons pushing for this transaction?
Rumours of a side deal are aplenty especially since it is an open secret that all, if not most, of the final negotiations with contractors and suppliers and probably in this case, Exsim as well, are done by PG and his son alone. That aside, without doubt, it is definitely a case of pure desperation that PG and his Deacons are willing to take this risk. The clock is ticking fast and money is just not coming in as PG had hoped.
On the EGM, it was good to note that there are new faces who are beginning to ask questions but unfortunately these voices are still few in numbers. Without saying, of course, the supporters of PG at the EGM, shouted praises to God and voted yes to the sale.
Clip #1 : Listen to the 3 Options presented by Zoo Gin.
Clip 2 : Listen to the terms of the JV
Clip 2 : Listen to the terms of the JV
257 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 257 of 257 Newer› Newest»"The practice of preaching 2 sermons during Sunday service........."
My reply : If you read carefully what I wrote, and in the context of what I wrote, you will have realised that I referred to 2 sermons in a service, not the holding of 2 services or 3 services which I fully understand is neccessary in small worship premises. I was purely referring to the 'mini' sermon that is preached prior to collection time ( unheard of before charismatic renewal ) to coax or pressure the congregation to give their tithes and money. This is the practice in many western charismatic churches today under the influence of prosperity teachers, and are are emulated by some Asian churches.
And talking of humble churches , I like to relate to you about a small charismatic church in PJ, also with a humble pastor. Obviously the church is not rich, but they don't preach the mini sermon to coax people to give.. In fact they don't even pass the offering bags around during the worship service. They just have a box affixed to the wall at the back of the auditorium. They don't even make any announcement during the service to tell people that there is a box for them to put their money into. The leaders just trust God to provide, and members without being pressured leave their money in the box at the end of the servive before they leave. How about that for faith and trust in God to provide to do His work. No silver or gold talk, just JESUS .
Anonymous of November 25, 2011 8:50 AM wrote ...
"And talking of humble churches , I like to relate to you about a small charismatic church in PJ, also with a humble pastor."
Thank you. I know there are more and more cases of pastors gone astray but it is important not to throw the baby out with the bath water.
There are many good and humble charismatic / pentecostal pastors who are serving God and their flocks faithfully.
We need to remind readers of this
A SHEEPISH NIGHTMARE
The other night we had a terrible nightmare, perhaps due to late night supper at an unearthly hour. In the bad dream, we saw some kids playing with soft toys.
One boy was trying hard to snatch away a soft toy from another, in the process he tugged at a string attached to the toy's side. Suddenly, the soft toy shrieked "Go jump into the lake". The said boy pulled the string a second time. Out came the curse, "Get lost".
Following his example, a girl pulled the string attached to her soft toy. It lamented, "I wished someone dying would leave me six million ringgit in his will."
"Hey, listen to mine.", said another girl, stretching the string to the maximum. Her soft doll, boasted "I also married a prince, you know !".
Not to be outdone, another boy rushed to show off his doll's speciality, tugging at its string attached. It proclaimed, "Give, give, give, give, give .... sacrificially" ... unceasingly. He looked somewhat disappointed at his doll's very limited command of the language.
Lastly, the smallest kid tugged at his toy's string. They all waited in silence with anticipation... It shrieked, "State your points immediately". Unimpressed, he pulled hard the string. The doll shouted, "Three times, you are out !"
In the next scene, we saw rows upon rows of these ugly grotesque looking soft dolls for sale at the church foyer, as a fund raising project.
My goodness, enough of such nightmares ! Phew ! No more midnight snacks for us.
Another bed time story brought to you by the dumb sheep.
Can't sleep ? Psst, have you tried counting sheep ? Good for you, you know... ! Lights out, Ah Beng.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 24, 2011 11:18 PM
A NAGGING QUESTION
Will CC ever be able to recover its former glory?? Presently the atmosphere reminds me more of a haunted house!!
I think SP and leadership are losing the reverence of the sheep increasingly.Of course,the die hards have decided to sink with the sheep but its their choice.I left because I just could not cope with SP and CREW- they have become an eyesore to me & family.
Frankly--I dont think God is with him anymore.Its all a religious circus now.That sermon " Saved but still Bound" - we heard it about 10 years ago.Looks like SP and gang have no more fresh inspiration from heaven. All that is left is stale manna.
The next time RY,SP or any other nit wit- appeals for a "Sacrificial Offering" has anyone got the guts to stand up and ask " What-specifically have you given sacrificially???" The way I see it- he has just upgraded to a CRV. We would have thought that he would have downgraded so that he could demonstrate an example of safrifice.
I notice that 1 blogger keeps describing to him as a Salesman.I laugh each time I read this because that is his opinion of RY.But if RY is involved in peddling the Word of God without living it himself- then the description does fit him. Its not name calling but calling a spade a spade.
Lastly, I dont give any $$$ to CC these days.Of course the worker is worthy of his wages- but I will give nothing to the building fund.(Ionly give sacrificially to mission work).
We dont have to get into debt to build this palace CCC- its all about SP's ego and about time someone told him the truth.
Well Its the weekend again. God bless you all.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 25, 2011 5:29 PM
HELLO THERE BRETHREN
Another week has gone and the Year is almost coming to an end.But the Calvary saga is still going on. Sadly.
The weaknesses in the AOG system is due to the fact,that in almost every case the Church Board is weak and unable to do anything against a one man (Reverend?)leadership.
In the previous AOG church I attended the Constitution was cleverly (cunning would be a better word) drafted. Board members are elected. But as a preliminary ground the Pastor would approve/disapprove who stand for election!!! So on the face of it-the Church Selected and Appointed the Board.But on closer scrutiny- you will find that there is AOG monkey business involved.Most of the sheep in the church do not see through this until this day- because they only see the members voting - and JUST ASSUME THAT HAVE A FREEDOM TO SAY HOW THINGS ARE GOVERNED> I say the AOG monkey is behind this and he is cleverly manipulating everything!!
Secondly, after getting elected- their tenure only lasts for 1 year and then it automatically expires and they must go for re-election.
So if anyone is brave enough to question any of the leaderships practices- he is gently shown the door.He will not say anything because the Rev. will not nominate him for re-election!!
All Church leader must ask for a copy of the Church Constitution and ask for clarification- especially the tenure of the Pastor and the way the finances are managed. Who call the final shots??
And if the Church is reluctant to be transparent in this matter-take your family and move on.There is probably another AOG monkey on the loose and you can certainly expect more monkey business in the house.You can be sure of that!!!
HAVE A WONDERFUL WEEKEND!!!NOTHING GREAT HAPPENED THIS YEAR BUT WE SURVIVED!!!! THE BLESSING OF THE LORD BE UPON YOU!!!
AOG "REVEREND" MONKEY PHOBIA
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 25, 2011 7:03 PM
"CC" can also stand for "Crystal Cathedral" that went bankrupt and sold to Roman Catholic Church for 57.5m. Do you think this can happen? If it does happen, then it is creating history in this country. What do you think bloggers?
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 25, 2011 10:21 PM
I was purely referring to the 'mini'sermon that is preached prior to collection time(unheard of before charismatic renewal) to coax or pressure the congregation to give their tithes and money.
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A Comment on the above
The above is just so true.Several Churches I visited this year who have ambitions to build or the building is being built,will preach a Mini Sermon about HOW MUCH$$$ has been collected,HOW MUCH $$$ we still need and how they are still "trusting God" for the rest.(What this means specifically is that HOW MUCH $$$ is left to be fleeced from the sheep.I have sometimes wondered - if they are trusting God for the rest why is it still necessary to mention the $$$ needed to the congregation on a Sunday morning in elaborate detail? The money appeal is a Mini Sermon by itself!!!Of course- its another AOG money appeal in disguise.It seems as though the sheep come to church to hear how much money has been collected and blah...blah...blahhh.Hey??HOLD ON AOG MONKEYS?/!! What about the spiritual needs of the sheep? How about preaching the Words of God to the human spirit before the money talk?? Do the sheep have to remind The SHEPHERD of these??
CC was a great church. But when the leadership began to be drawn into the "Let Us Build" competition,the atmosphere changed.One Friday evening as me and my visitor friend walked in- there was this huge money run down projected onto the huge screen by an overhead projector on the stage.
On the screen was a money run down- how much$$$ was Pledged,Collected and of course how much "they" are still believing God for.
No sooner had we sat down,a lady usher who had followed us from the door gave each of us a Pledge Card even before we sat down.Now to be walking into a church with all these beguiled & deceived church monkeys following us -it is understandable why we could not worship and soon left.It is no more a church.Gods sanctuary had become a whorehouse.MONEY FIRST BEFORE THE CHURCH SERVICE.This is nothing new. The Sheep are advised to read Ezekiel 16.In fact it is mentioned all over Ezekiel- WHERE GOD HAS HIMSELF DESCRIBED JERUSALEM AS A FILTHY PROSTITUTE.("her filthiness is found in her skirts")In 1st Samuel- read about why Eli's family were rejected from being Priests)
On stage was this Salesman RY- with his sales talk again.He was okay but right now he too has fallen into a pit and into the miry clay.CC people are ADVISED TO BE WARY with this back slidden man's sales talk as he is twisting the Scriptures.He is just asking money from the sheep by hiding behind Bible stories.He dare not ask it directly so the Appeal is indirect.Shortly stated-another AOG Con on stage.PERIOD
With the way things are going- I discern SP and gang are not going to repent.Even a Court case has not brought him to his senses.In the circumstances CC flag is at half mast.And it may have to be taken down in the near future.[GO TO SHILOH AND SEE WHAT I DID TO IT]
Grace & Peace to all the Brethren who had to walk down this path.Maybe it has happened for a greater good.Unexpectedly the spotlight has fallen on the Rogue AOG Ministers-- and alerted the sheep.And many hurt and wounded sheep from across Malaysia have shared their experiences.(There were many shocking stories.There was even one blogger who said that his Pastor came to church office in short pants-like he was working in a pig sty!!My family had a good laugh.)
My family and I learnt many things from this sordid episode. For the time being we will not step into ANY AOG CHURCH ANYTIME IN THE NEAR FUTURE.
FAREWELL BRETHREN.
A REAL SALESMAN.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 26, 2011 12:34 PM
At the 8:00am Sunday service at CC today, PG gave a mini sermons on giving and fulfilling your pledges. He was literally pleading and begging for the congregation to give and stressed so much about giving sacrificially.
I had visited a church a week after the Faith Promise was made. The Pastor said "Last week we had the Faith Promise. If you want to make a pledge, you can do so after the service at the counter outside." Simple, down-to-earth and no stress for the people. After this, the church hardly talks about pledges here and pledges there. Very unlike CC where the pastors drone into you to give, give and give.
Today the pleading for money from PG is so pathetic!
Three cheers for TOTT! The noose is tightening.
Christmas is coming. So with your hard earned money, give your wife and your children a good Christmas instead of satisfying one man's glory seeking vision
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 27, 2011 2:08 PM
Much had been covered in this blog about the honourary doctorates where pastors put reverend before their names without the brackets to impress the sheep.
Looks like everybody is jumping on the band wagon with such titles. Read today's Sunday Star on page.
The Youth Camp speaker Bill Eng is also a reverend. Earned academically or bestowed honourary? If there is a gathering of pastors, throw a stone at them and you probably hit a reverend with a honourary title.
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Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 27, 2011 4:39 PM Much had been covered in this blog about the honourary doctorates where pastors put reverend before their names without the brackets to impress the sheep.
Looks like everybody is jumping on the band wagon with such titles. Read today's Sunday Star on page.
The Youth Camp speaker Bill Eng is also a reverend. Earned academically or bestowed honourary? If there is a gathering of pastors, throw a stone at them and you probably hit a reverend with a honourary title.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 27, 2011 4:39 PM
Christmas is coming. So with your hard earned money, give your wife and your children a good Christmas instead of satisfying one man's glory seeking vision.
...................................
The above is one of the best piece of advice bloggers have written.One's wife is a life partner-who stands by us throughout our lives.Therefore anything sacrificial should go to her first- not to a building designed by a Freemason Architect.I am not a newly married man but hugging my wife maketh my day!!! She makes all my problems seem so small.
The AOG Quacks are a pretty confused lot.Doctrinally they would never accept any of the doctrines of Freemasonry even to the point of labelling it as demonic. But we have NO PROBLEMS ABOUT ACCEPTING THEIR PROFESSIONAL SERVICES!!!
The AOG leadership must come out and make a clear stand on matters like this.SOMETHING IS DREADFULLY WRONG WITH THE aog LEADERSHIP AS A WHOLE!!!
Todays money appeal is yet another evidence of CC fallen status.CC was okay- but this man has singlehandedly led it into debt enormous. Is all this begging from the pulpit necessary?? What impression did it leave on the visitors? It just confirms all the news they had heard on the grapevine.CC IS NOW OFFICIALLY A BEGGING CHURCH.
Well he wanted it- so let him handle it.Franky speaking- SP is hogging the limelight.Nobody believes him anymore.We are seeing him in a new light- thanks to this blog!~!!
Tomorrow is a holiday.So brethren-go out for a late nights supper- wake up late and enjoy the time with your family and children.Watch TV- go for a walk-visit friends or relatives or simply stay at home, relax and read a book.DONT BE BOTHERED BY THIS SP'S "GIVE SACRIFICIALLY " CRAP ANYMORE. IF HE MEANS WHAT HE SAY- LET HIM SELL HIS HOUSE AND CAR AND DOWNGRADE HIMSELF SACRIFICIALLY FOR THE BUILDING THAT HE WANTS SO MUCH. LET HIM SHOW THE SHEEP AN EXAMPLE.
DONT BE FOOLED BY HIS AOG PENTECOSTAL CRAP!!!
CHEERIO!!
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 27, 2011 6:01 PM
READING BETWEEN THE LINES FOR TRUTH
During the Sunday service on 20th, PeeGee2 could not resist mentioning to the congregation that six pastors were "not here today'. Then yesterday on 27th, PeeGee1 said FOUR out of six pastors were back with us. He gave us a brief update of the group of c-rites who went on the trip to Israel. He also very casually mentioned that he joined them immediately after his world conference trip to Brazil.
Then, laughingly he said that we Malaysians are very good at shopping bargains.
He also highlighted that four out of the six pastors are back here in KL.
Questions: Guess who were the SIX pastors mentioned "who are not here with us today" ? We saw only PeeGee2 and TO being present. Excluding them, do you think they include PeeGee1, PO, RY, DS and another pastor ? Would you like to guess who were involved ?
Do you think they were among the special 100 plus who enjoyed themselves on the very very expensive Israel trip ? Many of us who would have liked to go but could not afford such luxurious lifestyle - OR perhaps so stupidly gave sacrifically to the various cc funds, instead of enjoying themselves this trip. We cannot help but wonder, IF, repeat IF these pastors WERE on that trip, did they pay for themselves for the trip ? Or did the church pay for them ? IF, REPEAT IF this assumption is correct, would not this total expenses amount to a very BIG SUM OF MONEY in tens of thousands, each ? If this assumption is correct, would this not contradict the announcement that the church is in dire need of money for ccc ?
If they paid for their trip costs, we could not help but wonder how very well paid are they ?
We also wonder whether they also had a good time shopping, don't we envy them ? Were they among the shopoholics good at hunting down bargains mentioned by PeeGee1 ?
Before coming to cc, we always hear stories of POOR pastors and priests. After coming to cc, we found out that pastors drive brand new imported cars. Not only that but their cars are also expensive models, many of us dream of BUT cannot afford. Many of these pastors stay in expensive high class areas like Bangsar and Taman Tun Dr ismail ! And even have bungalows. They wear expensive outfits and shoes.
And they are already talking of a SECOND TRIP ! Is PeeGee2 going to join this 2nd group ?
Rally we DUMB SHEEP must throw out our WRONG AND OUTDATED IMAGE of pastors living frugally and sacrificially, YET working wholeheartedly and cheerfully for the good of the communities and general public, unceasingly spreading God's word to the world.
We think we have landed in the WRONG WORLD, as far as cc is concerned - since these same pastors are worlds apart from our wrongly preconceived ideas of God's humble servants like those mentioned in living testimonies in Asian Beacon and other Christian reading materials.
AND ...
despite all the double standards, we were encourage to "give till your last dollar" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
We think they really got no shame and the cheek to say one thing but mean another. And apparently they do not practise what they preach. They seem to live in their own world of contradictions, lies, deceit, deception, dishonor and profanities (Don't forget their curse words - "Get lost !" "Go jump into the lake", "Shut up", etc.)
By the way, does the word "missions" NOW mean going to on fancy trips to expensive capital cities, attending international conferences in vast airconditoned venues ? Perhaps followed by fine dining and shopping ? We always thought it mean trekking deep into the jungles or up remote highlands, or desert areas to reach out to the tribal people, who are still unsaved because of inaccessibility to the outside world.
MAY WE NEVER BE SUCKERED AGAIN !
AND AGAIN ! AND AGAIN ! AND AGAIN !
Amen.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 28, 2011 8:57 AM
Going back in time to the practice of Sacerdotalism
PG has got CC into such a spiritual and financial mess is because of his own doing and it will spell his “undoing”.
It began with his dream of building his dynasty and sold that fantasy dream to CC’s congregation (who had put their full trust in him as a faithful and trustworthy servant of God) by claiming that “God revealed to him” or “God spoke to him’ or “God spoke to him in a dream” or “God gave him a vision” to build a magnificent and grand building, and instead of calling it a church building, he called it “a convention centre” and to make it sound religious, it will house Calvary church and claimed all this is done for the glory of God. (No one today buys that story, man.)
I remember back in the 1980s when PG first announced that CC was going to build a church in Sri Hartamas, he used the same approach that “God gave him a vision” but it turned out to be a false vision as the project never got even started.
The Roman Catholic Church used this trick that “only the priests talk to God and God talks to them” centuries ago (and this trick still works today by modifying it a bit).
PG’s approach is similar in character to the DOCTRINE of SACERDOTALISM. PG is going back in time to this practice. Such a claim is a SERIOUS SPIRITUAL OFFENCE and a FALSE GOSPEL.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 28, 2011 12:17 PM
The Youth Camp speaker Bill Eng is also a reverend. Earned academically or bestowed honourary? If there is a gathering of pastors, throw a stone at them and you probably hit a reverend with a honourary title.
................................
A COMMENT ON THE ABOVE
Well at least they realized a thing or two about themselves.Gods Name ls "HOLY & REVEREND IS HIS NAME"
But they have only chosen to honour themselves as "Reverend". They don't pre-fix the word "Holy" before their names- BECAUSE THEY KNOW THEMSELVES".If our private thoughts and life come to light- most of us have to "pindah rumah jauh dengan serta merta!!"(Quote from a visiting AOG Reverend last year.)
Dr's,Rev's are a dime a dozen these days.How many of these foxes are humble and have Servant Hearts?How many of them are out there visiting hospitals, prisons and ministering to those lying in the dust? How many? If the truth be told,each one of them have a building project on their minds.Red carpets, big piano,cushion seats and an eye catching pulpit and an assembly of non- Bible reading or SELECTIVE BIBLE PASSAGES are their trademarks.And Faith Pledges & "Give Sarificially" have become a disease within the AOG churches these days. Most of the Reverends preach a few sermons,walk around with a " halo on their heads" and just wait for their salaries-and fellowship with their own kind- hoping to make the right connections to preach in big churches.
Pesonally I think that if the "Rev" title was abolished -2/3 of them would be demoralized.Its almost as if they need this lofty title for recognition before all others.Its time that the church wakes up from its spiritual slumber and be more self assertive in the face of these so-called Reverends.
Check the Bible for yourselves. Was there any man in the entire New Testament who carried this title? So where did this practice start from? How were they able to perpetuate this deception inside the AOG church until this day? How did it find its way into the AOG system? And the deception does not stop there. Who imposed on the sheep that 10% of the sheeps income must be paid to the church in terms of tithes? And its compulsory.
Can anyone out there point out a single verse that the Apostles taught this doctrine in the NT churches? You will find no such thing.This is one of the deceptions being practiced by the AOG Reverends.Lets not see CowCrap from a distance and mistake it for Chocolate Cake.
Let us stay awake and say'I HAVE HAD ENOUGH OF THIS AOG PENTECOSTAL CRAP!!!"
The Year is ending soon.I hope you have learnt some important lessons in church life.God protect the bloggers here and be a shield from the AOG Religious Frauds.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 28, 2011 1:42 PM
SP and lost crew have to go for some professional Counselling.Its obvious that they are backslidden and off the mark.Hey SP and Gang-just how much Money do you want us to give sacrificially? he even included "Money that you have access to" ( Meaning inheritance money/)
WE NOW HAVE A ROGUE MINISTER ON CC'S STAGE WITH A SCRIPTURE TWISTING SALESMAN AS HIS ASSISTANT.AND THE DECEPTION IS ONGOING.LADIES AND GENTLEMEN- HOLD ON TIGHTLY TO YOUR SEATS- FOR ITS END YEAR- HE THINKS MANY SHEEP GET BONUS AND WHAT NOTS- AND THE APPEAL IS GOING GET FIERCER, HOTTER AND SUBTLER.AND SHAMEFULLY DISGRACEFUL.BUT WHAT IS ALL THIS TO A ROGUE MINISTER??
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 28, 2011 1:50 PM
man's sales talk as he is twisting the Scriptures
..................................
Twisting the Scriptures for a personal agenda has been going on for a long time at CC.And it is not limited to CC alone.There is no consistency in their (AOG) doctrines.Sure,there are a few statements which seem to have uniformity- like the Trinity Or spaking in tongues. But other than that you will find a Merry Pentecostal Circus.For eg-Some pastors believe that Christians can be demonized.Others believe that a full possession can happen in the life of a Christian.Still other Rev's say this is ridiculous.In money matters,Church Goverment & Discipline on misconduct there is hardly any clear statement.
If what is going on at CC- to the point of a Court Case- if it had happened in any other church- to be sure his/her credentials would have been withdrawn by now. But for the first time,the AOG has been faced with a "YAU TAI MENG" pastor - so it has put the AOG leadership to the test - and exposed them for the frauds they are.
This is CERTAINLY double standards
The AOG House has been smeared and the cracks have appeared.The rest of the house will follow soon.
LET US BUILD SDN.BHD
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 28, 2011 5:27 PM
Just wanted to say that we love all of you out here!!!May you end this year with Peace,Love,Harmony and of Course- EXTRA CASH IN OUR WALLETS!!! God Cover us all!! AND BE A BLESSING TO OTHERS- STARTING WITH YOUR OWN FAMILY!!!
GENESIS
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 28, 2011 5:38 PM
"The practice of preaching 2 sermons during Sunday service........."
Very unlike CC where the pastors drone into you to give, give and give................
Last Sunday during the morning worship in cheras, it was not 2 but 3 sermons!!!
RY was the preacher. And his message was Part 3 (titled The Gethsemane Prayer) of his trilogy Pray Like Jesus. And after half an hour of talking about Jesus's experience in the garden of Gethsemane...garden of Eden...first Adam and last Adam etc etc... then only he came to Jesus's agonizing prayer at Gethsemane-his sermon for the day.
And guess what. Prosperity sermon again!! Just like in his part 1 of this trilogy where he touched on'...thank you God for providing my daily bread...' RY again told the cheras sheep "most of you don't need this prayer becos the daily bread already provided." Writers of this blog had already pointed out the wrong and shallow interpretation of this verse and yet....
Then he went on to tell the cheras sheep not to turn Christian prayer into repackaged paganism becos pagan prayer is bossy, self-righteous, demon chasing...to quote him "IT STINKS!!! GOD HATES IT!!!" He also reminded the cheras sheep..."DON'T TURN DAILY BREAD INTO DAILY GREED!!"
Wonder who's bossy...self-righteous...greed etc?
Of course what he was trying to say was don't be greedy. You had more than enough. And true enough he went on to preach his mini prosperity sermon...give give give
"Give to tithes, pledges. Not my will becos my will is to hoard my finances that comes my way. Will of God to give...always give..." Dear pastor i wonder who's hoarding and who needs this reminder more??? Dear pastor please look and see how many sheep drive a 100+K CRV plus a MYVI?
Pastor RY can you for once preach without the prosperity element?
The 3rd mini sermon was when DS conducted the collection. again begging the sheep to give give give sacrificially even if you are in need!. To quote him "Give to CCC, bring your tithes that belong to God, pledges...tithes don't substitute pledges for CCC, invest in the Eternal Kingdom, EVEN IN OUR NEED WE STILL GIVE BECOS HE WILL MEET OUR NEED...IF YOU NEVER GIVE THIS IS YOUR OPPORTUNITIES..."
Dear pastor DS i use to think that you are very rational and different from the others.
Btw RY reminded the sheep not to "give more becos to get more blessings." Isn't this what SP and his gang has been telling the sheep??? Give more so your blessing will be more and your house in heaven will be bigger!
Looks like TOTT is creating the desired effect and/or as some bloggers observe the year is ending and some sheep may be getting some big bonuses and hence feelin generous!
BEWARE! we can expect more such drone-ing and mini-sermons in the weeks to come.
ANOTHER SMALL FRY
Posted by ANOTHER SMALL FRY to Calvary Today 2 at November 29, 2011 4:56 AM
The 3rd mini sermon was when DS conducted the collection. again begging the sheep to give give give sacrificially even if you are in need
..................................
He said what???? hahahahaha hohoho/////Pentecostal Joker!!! HE JUST CONFIRMS THAT HE IS A RELIGIOUS SALESMAN!! HAHAHAHAAHH
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 29, 2011 1:57 PM
After the article in the Sunday Star on 27 Nov on page 19, read the letter on page 43 in today's Star titled "Malaysians obsessed with titles". Substitute 'Malaysians' with 'pastors' and you get a laugh.
The following was obtained from the website regarding AIM:
Rev. Datuk Prince Guneratnam
D.D, D.Litt., D.Law, MA (Missiology)
Datin Petrina Guneratnam
D.D.
Rev. Peter Ong
D.D., MA (Intercultural Ministries)
Rev. Timothy Ong
Dip Th
Rev. Steven Kum
MA (Christian Edu.)
Rev. Richard Yun
MA (Ministry)
Pam Guneratnam
MS (Counselling)
Dr. Dolly Chye
MBBS MAL
Rev. David Seah
Dip Th
Shereen Wong
BSc (Hons)
Yong Chee Weng
B Th
When PG2 got her honourary D.D., CC made a big fuss, organised a grand dinner to celebrate the occasion with yonggi cho's wife gracing the event. What is there to shout about? Honourary doctors are a dime a dozen.
Guess how many of the above faculty of AIM had obtained their titles academically or had been conferred honourary doctorates. Also throw a stone at CC's pastors and you hit a reverend.
Be on the good side of PG and he will give a strong testimony and recommendation to some organizations/universities dishing out honourary titles and lo, behold, you got a rev. to your name.
The final line on page 43 reads:
"The Government ........and also prohibit people with honourary PhDs from calling themselves doctors." If so, more than three quarters of pastors will suddenly become only "pastor so-and-so", no more rev. or dr. to stomp their members into the dust.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 29, 2011 3:57 PM
Dear Anony 25th at 5.29pm.
You said you do not give for CCC building fund, but still give your money for mission fund. How do you know for sure that your money will actually goes to mission? You already know that there is no truth, transparency or honesty in these CC pastors who might quietly divert these funds for CCC without you knowing at all. Very possible as they desperately needed funds for the building.
Yet you said you practised TOTT. I don't understand
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 29, 2011 10:14 PM
Today, pastors and church leaders. through their unbiblical teachings on OT tithes and the prosperity gospel, spent alot of time coaxing and pushing people to give to the church without thinking or being concerned about their families.
But not our God who through the New Covenant has reminded the apostles to give this instruction: " Give the people these instructions too, so that no one may be open to blame. If anyone does not provide for his relatives and especially for his immediate family. he has denied the faith and is worse than an UNBELIEVER. " ( 1Tim 5:7-8 ).
This is a warning that is hardly mentioned or reminded to us by pastors. Why? You figure out. But instead they love to read the warnings in Malachi under the old covenant but no longer relevant under the new covenant arrangement that came after Calvary and Pentecost.
Brethen, be reminded that the teachings of tithes is not in line with NT teachings. NT giving is under grace, free will giving as God leads, and drivened only by your love and gratefulness for Christ and for His glory.
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I am totally flabbergasted as to why this saga never seems to end!?
The call for TOTT has been going on for so long. Yet people are still being hypnotized to give. All for what and whom. Haiya, do not let the PeeGee1 and PeeGee2 continue to pull the wool over your eyes and ears by peddling fear gospel from OT. Follow Christ with the NT.
If all of you leave CC, there will be no place to worship. Instead of leaving, kick them out. They are thcikskinned man and woman, with no shame doing everything evil. Misquoting the bible together with their cronies and leading the sheep further from the truth, further from your families, further, further until you are lost.
You see wating for them to leave will never happen, either you rise and clean the house of God or you lose your place of worship.
Act now. God is wathching with his winnowing fan.
Below is an extract from page 10 in the Calvary Missions News July 2011:
"All amounts received from Faith Promise giving after meeting the faith Promise missions budget is chanelled to the CCC Building Fund."
The Faith Promise pledge for July 2011 to December 2011 is RM469,000 per month and the Faith promise budget is RM172,000 per month. Therefore the missions budget is only a mere 36.6% of the pledge and a whooping 63.4% goes to CCC. However the actual collection is far below the pledge - July collection RM300,188, August RM256,565, September RM239,394 and October RM289,230.
Up to week 3 in November, the amount collected was RM160,973 (week 3's collection was a meagre RM19,960 only). One does not have to be a mathematician or accountant to see that the collection is indeed very poor and the year is drawing to a close.
Hence PG and SK are having sleepless nights. The theme now in the mini sermons before collection time is "preach whatever is necessary to get the money". That is why the messages in CC and Cheras last Sunday had a common theme - give, give and give and also give sacrificially, give your offerings, tithes and pledges without taking from one to the other.
TOTT is yielding results. Keep it up. If there is money to spare, spend it on your family and have a wonderful blessed Christmas. Do not give to a mega monument that is the vision of one man and designed by a freemason.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 30, 2011 1:41 AM
You said you do not give for CCC building fund, but still give your money for mission fund.
...................................
WHAT I MEANT.SOMETIMES MY MIND IS JUST SO CLOUDED BY CHURCH TERMINOLOGIES THAT WE JUST ASSUME OTHERS UNDERSTAND WHAT WE SAY.FOR THE TIME BEING I GIVE TO MISSIONARIES PERSONALLY.2 MINISTERS I REALLY ADMIRE ARE PAS. TIMOTHY & RAJAN-WORKING WITH ORANG ASLIS DEEP IN THE INTERIORS OF MALAYSIA. THEY NARRATED TO ME THAT FOR RM250 THEY COULD HOLD A "KENDURI" FOR 2 VILLAGES- CONSISTING OF 70-80 PEOPLE!!!THERE ARE OTHER PASTORS TOO- WHO I FEEL A BURDEN FOR.THEY ARE ALL UNASSUMING PASTORS -WHO I BELIEVE ARE FULFILLING THEIR CALLING WITHOUT ANY FANFARE.I HAVE NO PROBLEM OPENING MY WALLETS TO THESE MINISTERS.THE HUMBLING THING IS THIS- IN YOUR FELLOWSHIP WITH THESE MINISTERS- THEY WILL NEVER ASK FOR ANYTHING.GOD BLESS YOU- SIR.
PERSONALLY SIR- I AM VERY DISILLUSIONED WITH THE CC THING.I THINK IT IS DREADFUL WHEN A GANG OF MINISTERS CAN BEHAVE LIKE THIS. ITS LIKE- THEY COULD NOT BE BOTHERED WITH ANYTHING.JUST GO ON COLLECTING MONEY.HOW DID THEY BECOME SO THICK SKINNED??
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 30, 2011 3:55 PM
The following was obtained from the website regarding AIM:
Rev. Datuk Prince Guneratnam
D.D, D.Litt., D.Law, MA (Missiology)
The final line on page 43 reads:
"The Government ........and also prohibit people with honourary PhDs from calling themselves doctors."
..................................
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HOHOHOHO...HEHEHEHEH....HAHAHAHAHAHA.....HEHEHEHEHEHE.....ARGHHH......MY TUMMY IS HURTING!!!!
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 30, 2011 3:58 PM
LAMENTABLE STATE OF CHURCH TODAY
Looking at Church History, it is lamentable that the church today in general is a FAR CRY from the days of the original apostles and the apostolic fathers during the first two centuries when the focus is on PROCLAIMING THE GOSPEL OF JESUS in all its simplicity.
With the deaths of the original apostles and the apostolic fathers, this was followed by the demise and disappearance of the NT church as subsequent generations of “believers” failed to maintain the purity of the teachings and practices of the apostles.
Instead they made changes to the church organization structure from a simple structure of elders and deacons to a hierarchical system of bishops and cardinals whilst others introduced pastoral system into their churches. In the good old days of the apostles, the churches at different locations were managed by their respective council of elders who act as preachers, teachers and pastors (ie shepherds of the church). Instead of collective management, the modern church opted for “a power system” which breeds corruption and the craze for power and wealth and fame.
MISSION WORK was done by the disciples themselves as it was part of their work as disciples. Today our pastors (I am not saying all) are so lazy and let others do the job on their behalf, thinking that by sending money they are helping in spreading the gospel. It is not the other guys’ responsibility, it is the responsibility of our own pastors and ourselves as disciples – that is according to the NT. And worst still, any excess mission monies are channeled away.
Today it is all couched with hidden agendas (personal or otherwise) and on the surface, it looked so religious and pious and generous on the outside but in the inside, like what Jesus said, they are sepulchers.
The Protestantism Movement and the Pentecostal Movements have done nothing in the way of RESTORING THE CHURCH to its formal state – the NT form of church that so many of us long to see – in its purity of teachings and practices. The distinction between “clergy” and “laity” itself is a wrong doctrine and carrying “Reverend” titles adds insult to the Gospel of Jesus because none of the apostles were called Reverends.
Forget about these AOG or Pentecostal churches – the gospels they are propagating are half-baked – truths mixed with lies – an Unblibical Christianity.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 30, 2011 6:16 PM
Reply Forward
The following was obtained from the website regarding AIM:
Rev. Datuk Prince Guneratnam
D.D, D.Litt.,D.Law, MA (Missiology)
.....................................
WHAT ON EARTH???!!! SP IS ALSO A DR.OF LAW??!!! AND MAY WE ASK, WHICH LAW SCHOOL DID HE GRADUATE FROM???? THERE IS SOMETHING AMISS HERE OR I HAVE MISSED A POINT.
THERE IS NO LAW SCHOOL ON EARTH OR MALAYSIA THAT HAS THE POWER TO CONFER ON ANY INDIVIDUAL AN HONORARY DOCTORATE ON THE LAW!!!!I HOPE THAT THE ABOVE IS A MISTAKE OR AN INNOCENT MISREPRESENTATION- OTHERWISE IT IS A SITUATION OF AN INDIVIDUAL DELIBERATELY DECEIVING THE PUBLIC AND THE AOG CHURCHES, AND CC ITSELF WITH LEGAL QUALIFICATIONS!!!CALL THE BAR COUNCIL OF MALAYSIA IF IN DOUBT.THEIR ANSWERS ARE AUTHORITATIVE!!!
TTG- KEEP UP THE AWARENESS MOTIVE.GOOD WORK HERE.TRAPPING VIPERS- IT TAKES A LOT OF KNOWLEDGE OF THE TERRAIN,ITS PARTICULAR CAMAFLOUGE, HIDEOUT HOLES TO TRAP AN OLD SEASONED VIPER.THE REASON BEING THE TERRAIN IS THE VIPER'S OWN NATURAL TURF WHILST FOR YOU ARE OUTSIDER.ITS GIFTED AT SENSING UNWELCOME OUTSIDERS AND QUICKLY SLITHERS AWAY INTO ONE OF ITS HOLES & ESCAPES.
THE SEASONED VIPER ALREADY KNOWS THAT THE HEAT IS ON AND SO IT IS BEING EVASIVE - THE LATEST STRATEGY - TALKING ABOUT THE BRAZIL TRIP AND THE ISRAEL TRIP.IT IS JUST TRYING TO THROW DUST INTO YOUR EYES AGAIN.
BE ALERT FOR MORE TRICKS THAT COME OUT OF THE BAGS!!!THE AOG SYSTEM HAS MANY RELIGIOUS SERPENTS- BUT THIS IS THE HEAD. SO LET US TREAD CAUTIOUSLY.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 30, 2011 8:02 PM
Dear Anony 30th Nov. at 3.55pm.
Isn't Pas.Timothy a supporter & crony of PG?,I know you meant well, but wouldn't it be safer to hand your money over to those truly needy ones personally, rather than to Church where the untrusted leaders might misuse the mission funds for some other purposes. I mean these people have knowned to have misused the church funds, and we would not like to be cheated by them again.
I thought when we TOTT, we stopped all kinds of givings that the church asked for.
Brother, I understand your good intention to help those who are burdened & struggling for the work of God. But if our money are in the hands of these rouge leaders, they never will be safe, like the tsunaimi funds that never reaches it destination. They must have used them for other purposes, and this tatamounts to swindling because these money belongs to members and if not used must be returned to them. Members have every right to demand that they returned the money and members can used them for some charitable purposes.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at November 30, 2011 9:53 PM
SIGNS OF NEW AWAKENING
Praise be to God Almighty for the signs of new awakening among the congregation members in the churches across the land.
No longer are the masses denied access to the truth about the misdeeds committed by rogue church leaders. Many thanks to the easy availability of CT 2 and other internet logs, besides contemporary freedom in communication tools.
No longer can they continue to perform sinful acts in darkness they previously pracised to fool and mislead the people due to the mass enlightenment of the congregations.
Nowadays people are more carefuly to discern and discard various falsehoods and false teachings from the pulpits of these rogue church leaders. No longer will people stupidly accept their teachings as gospel truths. Thank God for the spirit of discernment among Christian believers. Thank God for giving us the spiritual wisdom, to enable us to separate out the lies, deceptions and falsehoods. Thank God for equipping us to triumph over all spiritual warfare.
The spiritual maturity of the congregations shows that they prefer to contribute and donate their hard earned money to otehr more genuine Christian causes and noble social charities. No wonder the weekly collections are fast diminishing.
Praise God for his Hands upon all of us dumb sheep who choose to remain in cc as well as our supporters, our brothers and sisters in Christ, who have been praying for us. many of us remain for various reasons, including the fact that the rogue leaders should be the ones leaving, not us !
Praise God for the growing signs of God's greatness and goodness. We know the end days are near for the rogue church leaders. they shall all have to answer to God soon, for all their sins committed in and outside the holy sanctuaries.
Amen.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at December 2, 2011 10:43 AM
Isn't Pas.Timothy a supporter & crony of PG?,I know you meant well, but wouldn't it be safer to hand your money over to those truly needy ones personally
.................................
TO THE WRITER ABOVE
The Pastor I was referring to is Pastor Timothy in Kepong who has an Orang Asli's ministry going on. The Calvary's Timothy Ong- was never interested in those kind of work. CC leadership was not interested either- what glory is there for them in that kind of ministry??
Its the weekend again.Can someone out there please pray for me? I went for this interview for a prestigious job with a nice salary but still no answers.Maybe I made a mini blunder during the interview.The job is still vacant and I am qualified academically for this post.
Thank you all out here.God bless you all evermore!!!! vj--
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at December 2, 2011 6:19 PM
To Anony. Dec 2, 6:19pm. My apology for the mistaken Timothy. If only you have mentioned the surname.
May God bless you and reward you with this job you are seeking.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at December 2, 2011 9:59 PM
BINI TAK MAHU DATANG!!!INI MESTI ADA HAL PUNYA!!!
I would like to share a little experience which I had recently.A friend of mine in his 60's died suddenly and so I went to pay my last respects.
My friends body was in the 1st coffin at the crematorium.Barely five minutes later another dead body arrived- accompanied by a weeping group.Still another 10 minutes another corpse arrived- followed by a strangely silent group.Yet 10 minutes later another soulless body arrived.What aroused my curiosity was this- the 5th dead which arrived had no company but only a bald headed priest holding a long bamboo stick with some kind of Chinese writing sticking out at the end.So I asked him- Apa pasal tak ada orang?
HIS CURT REPLY was "Tak tau- Bini tak mahu datang- Anak tak mahu datang- Ini mesti ada hal-punya!" Yet his was the only body that arrived in a huge Black shining Mercedes!!!!Even though I never knew the man- I was deeply grieved for him.Is this the way to depart?? Arriving in a Mercedes all ALONE??
I mentioned this because most of us would like to do something great and terrific in our lives- including putting up big building and describing it as churches of God.And it does not matter how many people we hurt in the process.
To all ambitious Pastors- I would like to pose a somewhat sensitive question- HOW WOULD YOU LIKE TO BE REMEMBERED BY YOUR SHEEP AFTER YOU ARE GONE- I MEAN DEAD AND GONE???
It is written about a certain King of the OT-"....... ..and to no ones' sorrow departed."(Like it was a great relief when he finally died)
I certainly would not like to die like the 5th man.PASTORS,PLEASE KEEP YOUR AMBITION IN PERSPECTIVE.Today,we hardly hear a sermon on Servanthood inside the Church.
Because one day we too will have to arrive in the very same way these corpses are departing.
Today Many huge Church buildings in England have been converted into storehouses where they store furniture!!! I went into a brightly lit church- which is now a library and one whole section was on the Occult and another on Filthy Bedroom Jokes!!!
THERE IS A BIG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN GENIUS AND STUPIDITY.GENIUS HAS ITS LIMITS. EINSTEIN.
As advent of the Anti Chirst draws near- the Church seems to be more and more Commercialized. Lets serve God acceptably in our brief time before our dead bodies join the others at the Cemetery.
THERE IS A BIG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN GENIUS AND STUPIDITY AND IT IS THIS.GENIUS HAS ITS LIMITS.
EINSTEIN.
KIND REGARDS. GOD BLESS YOU ALL OUT THERE.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at December 5, 2011 7:18 PM
A LEGACY OF DEBTS ? A LEGACY OF SHAME ? A LEGACY OF DEVIL WORSHIP ?
Just curious to think what kind of legacy will AssPee and his zombie supporters in the form of pastoral staff and BOD be remembered for by the congregation of believers and visitors to the church ? Will we be reminded of his overwhelming passion for building ccc, as a symbol of selfish pride - disregarding the almost inevitable end result that the future generations of c-rites be burdened with huge debts costing hundreds of millions RM, in the process even bankrupting the church ? Will we remember his high handed ways in dealing with people, even his own congregation, harshly axing 400 plus of his own flock ? Will we be tormented over how he forcefully removed his appointed deacons, life group leaders, SCG teachers, even pastors ? Will we not forget his harsh treatment meted out to members of the church who dared to exercise their right to ask questions concerning the need for truth, transparency, godly governance during EGMs and AGMs ? Will we forgive him for all these sins ?
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at December 5, 2011 8:52 PM
LEGACY OF DESPAIR, HOPELESSNESS AND SHAME ?
Wll this rogue leader leave us his legacy of despair, hopelessness and shame after all the sinful things he so dicatorially ordered to be carried out or implemented against the geeral will and wishes of the majority of the congregation, for his evil plans to detroy the church from within, for the end result of many abandoning their once beloved church for other churches, for splitting the church, for dismantling even the church choir, for terminating life groups, for removing teachers, for tranfering funds without proper accountability and integrity, for no full traparency in administration, for the mess of ccc being mired in now ? For the huge debts we may sink in ?
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at December 6, 2011 7:58 AM
Anony. Dec 6,2011 8:35am. How are you to kick them out? Members doesn't seemed determined at all to pursue or pressured authorities for an investigation on suspicion of corruption on CBT and misuse of funds by PG & family and his crony pastors. Was there any report on the missing Tsunaimi fund? They are still enjoying and are continuing using & wasting members funds for their personal comfort and gains.
Yes, Rise and clean the house? But when? As long as there is no co-operation among members or any group willing to take up the fight, I don't see that happening at all.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at December 6, 2011 1:21 PM
TOTT - VERY EFFECTIVE MESSAGE TO ROGUE LEADER
Whatever the rogue leaders may say, hint or outwardly deny in their messages, we all know AssPee does read or get someone to brief him constantly on the latest contents of CT2. TOTT is WORKING SO BEAUTIFULLY on the demonic team in cc.
Whichever way he turns, he is geting the message loud and clear that people do NOT swallow his lies anymore. The congregation are no longer dumb sheep. Thnks to the enlightengment from God through CT2TTG and other means, people hesitate to ponder to discern beteen god's truth and the rogue leader's web of lies.
Collections are shrinking week by week. Likewise, the size of congregation has shrunks so much that PeeGee2 had to request "those sitting at teh back to come forward" (so that it would not look so empty when the cameras record the sparse population at the pews.)
We have reasons to believe the rogue leader is getting desparate by the week, and eventually by the day, as the Golden cow runs "dry of being milked".
"Cowabunga to you !"
"You and your gang should get MOO_VING ... OUT" of cc andd ccc, fast. MOO-DY nowadays, huh ?
Is the EGM to talk about cows and condos ? Moo Moo Moo ....ve over, buster !
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at December 6, 2011 5:27 PM
True, very true. Collections are shrinking at CC. November Faith promise was the lowest since July at RM201,369 against a pledge of RM469,000 per month. Missions budget is RM172,000. Therefore only a meagre RM29,369 is swept to CCC.
SK on Sunday, 4 December, made an impassion plea for more giving - citing that tithes and offerings are used for the running of the church such as expenses, payments, salaries, etc, etc.
Keep up the great TOTT.The pastors (including PG and PG2) and Ngeow will have more white hair and sleepless night.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at December 7, 2011 12:53 AM
Must be desperate. Missions budget used to be close to RM300,000 a month. They have cut down on their missions giving by about 40%. Ask them for the details of their missions giving and you will know that even in the RM172,000 most of it is used within the church and so-called missions personnel. What a shame. Real Missions minded churches like SSMC, DUMC and SIB give away every sen of their missions collection and they increase their giving year after year. Early this year DUMC made one anniversary collection. They collected RM3.8 million against a budget of RM3.0 million. They Lord blessed them beyond their expectations. Every sen was given away to a long list of ministries.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at December 7, 2011 10:20 AM
HELLO THERE EVERYONE- I AM THE CC'S NEW COMPANION!!
Hello everyone-Thanks for inviting me to CC. From now on I will be your constant companion for life or until the end of CC OR whichever comes first.
Many of you know me, but this is the first time I was officially invited.So I am very honored that there is someone out there who loves my company!!
MY NAME IS FINANCIAL DISTRESS.I am a true and faithful buddy to millions in Malaysia. My companionship is constant.When you wake up from your slumber,I will be the first to greet you.Fact is, even when you close your eyes- I can still occupy your minds.People can just toss and turn on their beds until the Wee hours of the morning just thinking about me!!!When you sleep, I will lift your blanket and sleep right beside you-and hug you throughout the night.i LOVE YOUR COMPANY!!
Mornings-I will stride with you throughout the day-like your own shadow.And with me around -one cannot even worship in church.Because I cause heaviness of spirit,suicidal thoughts,depression,absent mindedness and joyless laughter and empty fellowship.
My alter ego is Credit Card debts, legal letters from Banks, and huge UNmanageable debts that ARE alive and seems to increase over time and never decrease.
I am very happy that you have chosen me in preference to a debt free life.But then, there are always people and even so- Called Pastors who love my Company-as CC has proven.
So since we are officially friends- I will be faithful to you throughout the year 2012-and until the end.
Read your Sacred book.I am so subtle that I even caused Judas to do what he did.I did the same to the prophet Balaam.I am no stranger to your history.
I rejoice lately that many Pastors have invited me to their churches. There will be some trouble-but I assure you it is going to be fun!!!
Get ready for the ride.
A PERSONAL THANKS TO SP AND CC LEADERSHIP FOR WELCOMING ME WITH A RED CARPET INVITATION.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at December 7, 2011 12:11 PM
ZERO ACCOUNTABILITY ?
ZERO RESPONSIBILITY ?
QUESTIONABLE INTEGRITY ?
We seriously doubt whether your assumption that a meagre "RM29,369.00 being swept to ccc" is even a reality as far as the rogue leader's style management and administration is concerned. Especially since he seems to favor zero accountability, zero responsibility and questionable integrity
- How are we the dumb sheep who contributed faithfully into church funds, ever be able to know for sure the following:
How much was collected ?
How much was spent ?
What was the money used for ?
How much was the balance ?
etc, etc.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at December 7, 2011 12:48 PM
TOTT is working great! Collection across the board is continuously dropping. Hence the plea aka begging by the pastors.
The bottomline is all about money. If the money is there, it's a comfortable lifestyle in the comfort zone, upgrading to new cars, building a man's vision. if there is no money, the begging for more and sacrificial giving is preached day in and day out.
Btw, the tour costs for the pastors who went to Jerusalem were probably indirectly paid by the members who went on the trip. It's a common practice in the travel industry that if one bring in about 15 - 18 tour participants, a free trip for a leader is given. Details are often negotiated with the tour organizer. Therefore if there were about 100 persons, voila, there be about 5 - 6 free seats. So who goes for free. Of course not you or me. It's the pastors who get a free ride.
Wishing all a blessed Christmas. I'm taking my wife to the northern hemisphere for a cold Christmas (climatically speaking) for a holiday.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at December 7, 2011 2:12 PM
SK on Sunday, 4 December, made an impassion plea for more giving.....
Two sundays ago in cheras the updated missions collection was not shown. i suspected one reason was the collection was below par. And true enough last sunday 4 dec the RM201,369 shown is not even 43% of the monthly pledge!! RY2 also commented on the low figure and ask sheep to give.......
Not surprising RY2 before the second collection has to serve a mini sermon reminding the cheras sheep the COLLECTION IN NOV WAS RM25000/- AND FOR DEC THE CHURCH IS TRUSTING THE SHEEP FOR ANOTHER RM25000/- SO THAT THE CHURCH CAN GIVE CHRISTMAS GIFTS TO MISSIONARIES AND PASTORS OUT IN THE FIELD...' And he was very careful and stated very clearly for whom the collection was. You think he never read the blogs???
Still remember Anony October 24, 2011 7:25 PM wrote about ' give to BCM- the one institution that produced most of the AOG Pastors, give a special generous offering to Rev.Ng Kok Kee and family and that old time faithful in the Lord.These ministers are very special and they dont ask a sen from anyone but have been serving the Lord quietly for decades,in simple lifestyle without any fanfare or pomp. Lets honour these men while we still can...'
The video preceding showed deserving previous recipients expressing their appreciation like Rev. Ng Kok Kee and family. So clever the producer of the video! Probably they read this blog too!! Of course CC sheep are more than willing to give to such deserving workers. Looking at the many wrongdoings already committed members of CC have every right to know where else the $$$ goes.
Anyway when you ask for a gift do you tell the giver how much to give? Do you dear pastor RY2??
Btw PO was the speaker in cheras last sunday. His message 'Doing as He enables' Overall a good message and also touched on this year church theme 'LOVE GOD...love your neighbour' when he gave away his packet of mee goreng mamak to the stranger who asked from him.
But dear pastor PO why must you end your sermon with "...be generous with your life...CHURCH WANTS TO BUILD CONVENTION CENTRE THAT CAN BLESS OTHERS. YOU SHOULD BE GLAD THE CHURCH HAS MISSION..."
"BE GENEROUS...THIS SEASON OF GIVING"
Two sundays in a nearby AOG church the pastor reminded the sheep to fulfill the Faith Promise they made since the church faced a shortfall after purchasing a multimillion $$$ building 'BY FAITH' when they do not have the necessary finances. The members were made to feel guilty as if they had made a promise to GOD so must fulfill!!!
Similar to CCC when the senior pastor and BOD proposed to buy the building there were some including pioneer members who protested since the church didn't have the finances and their present church was only a hundred meters or so away. The purchase was bulldozed through. Thankfully unlike CC those against are not axed. However some also attended other churches like DUMC.
How true that many AG churches are putting up bigger and more buildings. And how easy to hookwink sheep using ...BY FAITH...GOD WILL PROVIDE...GOD HAD BLESS YOU, YOU BETTER GIVE OTHERWISE!...
Anony December 7, 2011 10:20 AM... Early this year DUMC made one anniversary collection. They collected RM3.8 million against a budget of RM3.0 million. They Lord blessed them beyond their expectations. Every sen was given away to a long list of ministries.
Dear PO,SK,RY1,RY2 and the rest if CCC is really GOD-given vision the resources will just tsunami in, not trikles in.
And you don't have to preach all the 1st 2nd and 3rd sermons every sunday and in every special services!!! GOD will bless far beyond expectations.
ANOTHER SMALL FRY
Posted by ANOTHER SMALL FRY to Calvary Today 2 at December 8, 2011 8:53 AM
Not surprising RY2 before the second collection has to serve a mini sermon reminding the cheras sheep the COLLECTION IN NOV WAS RM25000/
................................
THERE GOES THE SALESMAN RY AGAIN- WITH HIS SALES TALK!! HE JUST PROVES THAT A LEOPARD JUST CANNOT CHANGE ITS SPOTS.!!!I BELIEVE THIS SO CALLED REVEREND IS IN THE MIDST OF THE JUDGMENT OF GOD!!
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at December 8, 2011 4:36 PM
The video preceding showed deserving previous recipients expressing their appreciation like Rev.Ng Kok Kee and family.So clever the producer of the video!
.................................
WE ARE THE FAMILY WHO WROTE ABOUT HONOURING REV.NG KOK KEE.SO NOW THEY ARE SHOWING A VIDEO OF THAT BLESSED MAN?? THIS IS CLEVER SALES STRATEGY. WE ARE NOT SURPRISED.WITH THE BACKSLIDDEN RY- THE SUPERSALESMAN IN OPERATING IN CHURCH- YOU CAN EXPECT THESE KINDS OF SALES TRICKS.(AKA AOG MONKEY TRICKS).
BE WARY OF THESE MEN.RIGHT NOW THEY ARE WOLVES IN SHEEPS CLOTHING.ITS THE END OF THE YEAR.CHRISTIANS ARE ENCOURAGED TO USE THEIR MONEY FOR A HOLIDAY - YOU NEED IT BEFORE THE NEXT YEAR STEPS IN.
HOWEVER IF YOU FEEL LED TO GIVE ... SEND IT DIRECTLY TO BCM. WE DONT NEED SALESMEN IN CHURCH AS MIDDLEMEN. BYR.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at December 8, 2011 4:47 PM
Hello everyone out there.Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Much has been shared here in this blog.And it has brought about a much needed awareness for all believers here about abuses by those in authority within churches.
I think no Christian wants to come here and criticize just for the sake of criticizing.But when the leadership is wayward and just would not listen and start abusing the sheep- what else is there to do?
CC sheep has been scattered all over.The majority of those who remain are unsure of the present leadership.
Its something akin to the US continued involved in Irag.If the army pulls out completely leaving a weak Goverment- AL-Qaeda will come in and finish them off accusing them of being US puppets.But if the US stays on- then there will continued US casualties.
The question- is it possible to withdraw from CCC's venture at this point of time? Either way there are going to be problems-
This current episode just goes to show how stupid some church leaderships can be!!! What is happening at CC should never happen in any other church.And the only way is to bring greater awareness.Many Pastors feel the bloggers are not doing the right thing.But when the question is asked "Then,what is the right thing to do?" only draws a blank.
SP's statement"Church matters should be solved within the church"
& "My doors are always open" --all these words had no sincerity from the beginning. He would have gone on with the CCC delusion no matter what.
I know many AOG Pastors are embarrassed with the write ups here. But there is a disease within the AOG house -looks like we cannot eliminate it- so the only option is to make it public- so other abusive and adamant AOG pastors will get the message.
The $$ appeal is getting hotter and rightly so... debts at the doorstep. It was just so pathetic to see RY in Cheras asking $$ again- like a professional church beggar.And they have become thick skinned.And the amount of pretence they are capable of-I know they read this blog.But they can put on a straight face as though they don't!! Our Compliments!!Again we had a hearty laugh when he heard RY with a video trick of Rev. Ng Kok Kee receiving a love offering. Nice Sandiwara by AOG Pastors!!!
As I stop here- I hope the CC leadership will pause and reflect.You have gone down the wrong road.There must be a U-Turn somewhere. I am sure there must be some Godly Counsel out there somewhere.
Right now SP is like Balaam on his donkey- whacking the donkey as the animal was reluctant to move.Balaam already knew Gods mind on the matter- but his heart was throbbing on the gold that Balak had promised him.You know the story.
Again I would to commend on the UTTER STUPIDITY of the church leadership for getting the church into this mess!!!
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at December 10, 2011 12:44 PM
Although there are many concerned Christians out there who are not from Calvary, their comments and concerned will not move the pastors and PG.
Read today's Sunday Star on the subject of giving to charity to organizations. Donors all over the world today wants to know how their money is used. The maxim preached in CC that when money is given to them, you should no longer ask about it, it is for them to do as they wish. This thinking is totally over and if there is no accountability or transparency, then something is obviously wrong and questionable.
You can talk until the cows come home but the recalcitrant pastors and PG in CC will not change. The only option is to TOTT where they are vulnerable. Today, CL during collection time again said that offerings and tithes are for the daily operations of the church. This was exactly the same that came from SK last week.
TOTT for truth, transparency and accountability.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at December 11, 2011 5:13 PM
Turn Off The Tap and Move On
It is NOT the church that saves you, it is JESUS CHRIST who saves you through grace by faith. – CC is merely an institution. It cannot save you. So why should you be sentimentally and emotionally attached to CC. Your loyalty should be to Jesus.
And it is NOT your pastor and his associates whom you depend on for your salvation, it is JESUS CHRIST who saves you through grace by faith – These PG and his associate pastors are merely human beings just as we are – sinful creatures. So why should you be sentimentally and emotionally attached to them when you know in your heart these guys are after your money to enrich themselves no matter what they say from the pulpit.
So, those of you who still remain in CC and support CC, CCC and PG etc. financially whether it is tithing, building fund, missions giving, etc. WHY SHOULD YOU WORRY if you withdraw your financial support SINCE these guys are preaching ANOTHER GOSPEL and not the Gospel of Jesus. Their “another gospel” cannot save you. ONLY JESUS DOES. So why should you feel guilty towards these false preachers.
Come on, brothers and sisters, wake up from your spiritual slumber. It is time for you to move out and move on for Jesus to another church where the Gospel of Jesus is preached.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at December 12, 2011 6:34 AM
FREE TRIPS - MORALLY WRONG FOR CHURCH
We thank Anon Dec 7, 2011 2.12 pm for enlightening us regarding the commonly practised system of free trips (eg to "tour leaders / introducers / and others") being cross subsidised / subsidised by the total number of paying customers in the large tour groups.
While some, if not most of us know this free trips are often available in the secular world due to various "negotiations" with the tour leaders from profit oriented companies, etc, we strongly believe that if a certain church were to organise a very expensive overseas trip as a fund raising project, the church leadership should object, should not condone and should not allow such double standards of "parasitic" "free loading" etc by its own PASTORS ! No wonder some pastors were smiling from ear to ear before that trip date.
WE CONFIRM that we are NOT SURE whether the six pastors reportedly mentioned by PeeGee2 being "not here today" that Sunday by any chance were "by coincidence" also being part of the tour group who went on the Israel trip !!!
Can anyone in the Israel trip confirm whether any of the pastors were part of the travel group who accompanied them ?
Can anyone in the group confirm whether the pastors paid their own fares, were "sponsored" ,"travelled free", etc, etc,?
Or is it that nobody other than the pastors know the truth, but are not telling tales ... ?
We as Christian strongly believe that it is strong act of betrayal of our Christian faith if we knowingly let down / disappoint / lied and "steal money" from fellow Christians.
For example, ASSUMING IF REPEAT IF, we "enjoyed" going on a free trip - totally subsidised by the total travel fares, paid by others, who are totally NOT aware / not told that THEY had unknowingly been paying for our trip fares (eg air fares, hotel accomodations, meals, travel itinerary, etc.
Isn't this sinful act like stealing from fellow Christians ? Isn't the wrong doing a lot worse when the "victims" are "members" from your own church congregation ?
Should not the church leaders involved in organising the tour try to negotiate better deals (eg beter meal menus, upgraded rooms, better transportation eg bus coaches instead of vans, extended check out time), more favorable terms and conditions or even further discounts from the travel agency ?
Or is it okay for the rogue leadership and its cohorts to practise DOUBLE STANDARDS ? Is it okay to CHEAT AND STEAL from people ? Even your own CHURCH CONGREGATION ? Is it because you think "YOU ALL" DESERVE IT (including PERHAPS the FREE HOLIDAY TRIPS and other unknown perks) ?
PeeGees - Does God have two different sets of Bibles ? One set of Bible for you and your pastors ?
and another set for your dumb sheep from the conmgregation ?
Is PEEGEE 2 waiting in anticipation of PERHAPS a "sponsored trip" to join the 2ND GROUP after the "success" of the 1st group ?
After all, PeeGee1 managed to squeeze his very busy schedule to fly over to join them in Israel, to take part in the mass baptism of thousands in the River Jordan, immediately after his Sao Paulo World Convention.
What a hard working man !???
Working even on a holiday .... ?
Or is it the other way round ... holiday while working ?
Man oh man, the jet lag finally gets to you, plus the Middle East sun fries your brains, nothing like the Far east sun ! Or is it the salt from Dead sea accumulation in your brains... ? Right AssPee ?
God bless us and protect us dumb sheep from wolves in sheep skin, especially those dumbest wolves who chased selfish dreams, devised devilish schemes and signed one sided contracts (we think and we believe) not in our favor.
We continue to pray for enlightenment of the remaining dumb sheep including us. We thank God for TOTT working so effectively. We are grateful to God for spreading His Truth. Amen.
Posted to CT2 at Dec 12, 2011 5:10 PM
Yes best piece of advise from Anoym CT2 on Dec 12 at 6.3 am.
TOTT and move on - i add to a real church. Sorry la, CC no more a church, the earlier comment is correct - it is now an institution. And the people heading it need to be institutionalised soon.
Ha Ha ha. Ho Ho Ho. But this is not funny. It is true. Cos PEEGEES got to get institutionalised for all their peddling of the Gospel according to their will and milking the innocent cows and bulls.
And you people sign covenants. And if you break it you kena from those fellas. Oh Puhleezzz! No proper church expects the believers to sign covenants.
Let this be a good lesson to all who strayed and believed in viper people instead of our true Saviour Jesus Christ.
Go out and enjoy the spirit of Christmas like many other normal Christian people do lah. Remember to give to the needy.
Enough of sitting uder the spell of PEE GEES.
God Bless You.
Waiting for the final curtain. Ho Ho Ho
As the year ends- may our God above help us to face the unforseeable circumstances in the coming year.I get the hunch that CC leadership is heading for bad days. What I feel like saying is this- none of us bloggers must rejoice if any bad things happen to CC leadership- like an official investigation or an arrest. But we must continue to pray.It is Gods house that we are talking about here and it is not an occasion to rejoice when one of His servants face the divine chastisement.
To all Pastors out there- God bless you for the coming year. And if anyone has suffered because of you- a horrific spiritual abuse, neglect or curse words- than as a servant of Christ - go out and set it right.Be humble a bit -lah!!
God Bless You all. --
Fr CT2 @ December 14, 2011 4:59 PM
Church is supposed to be a place of healing,restoration and godly fellowship from the harsh realities of life.But today there seems to be so much indifference and abuse from those entrusted to be overseers of the flock/.Sadly, I have personally seen A pastor abusing others with his harsh words.
Some can stand up for themselves but others just suffer quietly. But not to be disheartened- " Vengeance is Mine saith the Lord." And the only God above has His own way of dealing with those who lift up their horns against others.'
Fr CT2 @ December 14, 2011 6:13 PM
Grace & Peace be to you. Just a tip for church goers:-
If any pastor runs down another minister from the church pulpit or in fellowship with you-JUST IGNORE HIM.
Some of them have serious personal issues with other ministers-and they have have top sort it out themselves.
To all the laboring pastors out there- God bless you many fold in the coming year!!! We love you all!!! Bye--
Fr CT2 @ December 15, 2011 12:49 PM
Shorty stated- I was once suicide prone and ridden with deep depression. Jesus rescued me out of all this.Without a church atmosphere I would never have survived until this day.I am now in the secular world - and although I drink once in a while- I do not think death thoughts.It is gone from my soul.
I said this because the spiritual atmosphere in many churches is changing.It is no more the "pure unadulterated Word of God "but messages that people want to hear.And because we don't want to lose rich members the church tends to soften the message.
CC publicity should never have occurred.Can anyone out there know what is the best thing to do in CC? Where any group of people are gathered- there are bound to be weak and depressed who may not share their personal problems.CC is no exception.
The Malays have a saying "Bila gajah gaduh- sikancil yang kena teruk".
When the elephants fight,its the mousedeer which suffers.In this context- its the silent members who suffer.
At this point of time- SP should not be standing up to preach.There are just too many questions on the ground.Recently Dr.Mahathir's comment on Sharizat's leadership
"Don't wait for people to chase you out!!"(Accused of misusing public funds).
I just wanted to greet everyone a Blessed Christmas- instead I have written this without knowing why.God bless you all out there.Bye for now.
Ex-Demoniac from Gerasene.
SP should resign or take a years leave and let CC sort out its affairs in his absence. Right now I believe this Pastor has become a stumbling block to the believers.
Fr CT2 @ December 15, 2011 5:14 PM
"... if any bad things happen to CC leadership- like an official investigation or an arrest..."
It will come to pass before the World AOG Convention ! The authotity will use this to TARNISH the Christian Image further as a whole. It is a cleansing by FIRE !
Fr CT2 @ December 15, 2011 8:18 PM
No matter what- I urge all believers at continue attending church. We need this spiritual refreshment to handle the stresses of the coming week.As the curtain comes down on this year- it is my prayer that all of us have something to thank God for- like the food we ate and the clothes we still had on our bodies/.
As for those who are hurt by so called Pastors- there is no point in resisting a man who is backslidden and worse who still operates withing the four walls of the church.\The chastisement will come down from on high - even it is a Ungodly King Nebuchadnezzar or a Godly King David.
Remember all of you out there- tomorrow is church -so go to bed early- have a great breakfast then go straight to church and quiet down before the service begins. God bless you all out there and God bless the bloggers.
Posted in CT2 @ December 17, 2011 3:10 PM
When I first heard the message that all Christians will go through the fire- I was under the impression that these trials will come from the world. I had no idea that most of the trials come from within the Church-many from so called church pastors!!!The amount of hassles that Paul went through all came from church leadership- a few of them were even titled as Super Apostles!!!!
Looks like abusive church leadership has not changed one little bit.
Lets stay together in this blog as I believe there is a common bond underlying the Christians here. God bless you all. We bear no animosity against any Pastor but we will not put up with those who abuse others using Jesus Name.
The BULLSHIT HAS TO STOP HERE.
SAY "NO" TO SPIRITUAL ABUSE IN CHURCH!!!
Posted in CT2 @ December 18, 2011 1:04 PM
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