Tuesday, February 15, 2011
PG says No to Christian Arbitration
NECF efforts at mediation fails
Since December 2009, the National Evangelical Christian Fellowship of Malaysia (NECF) had quietly worked on a mediation effort to try to resolve the ongoing legal suit involving Pastor Prince Guneratnam (PG) and his Board of Deacons and a group of 7 Concerned Calvary Church members.
The 7 plaintiffs, representing a class of Concerned Members, had filed an Originating Summons to the High Court seeking to declare the 2009 Church AGM null and void and for the 7 rejected Resolutions to be tabled. (Please refer to the older posts in this blog for the full story and details of the rejected resolutions)
NECF was aware that an earlier attempt at mediation initiated in October 2009 by a prominent Calvarite and the Assemblies of God General Superintendent (AOG-GS) had failed. That meeting was called off when PG told the AOG-GS just two days before the scheduled meeting that “the date was not convenient”. The time, date, place and terms of reference had all been agreed at least 7 to 10 days before. For reasons best known to himself, PG got cold feet. The plaintiffs were disappointed because they had accepted the Terms of Reference and were all ready for mediation.
After the failure of the above mediation effort by the two individuals, NECF waiting patiently for the Assemblies of God Malaysia (AG) to take action to resolve the conflict which has set the Christian community in Malaysia abuzz. However, to the disappointment of NECF and the Christian community at large, AG failed or refused to intervene, probably in fear of their mentor who is now a Tan Sri.
To their credit, NECF then took it upon themselves to attempt to mediate between the two parties. They contacted one of the Plaintiffs sometime in December 2009 to explore the possibility of resolving the crisis through mediation or Christian arbitration. The Plaintiffs readily agreed to mediation but however, PG proved to be very elusive and despite a number of attempts by NECF, PG just refused to provide any dates to meet.
In spite of this discouraging setback, NECF persevered and proposed Christian arbitration in keeping with the teachings of 1 Corinthians 6. They proposed that the Plaintiffs take the matter out from the secular court and put the matter before a panel of Christian senior lawyers and ex-judges. The Plaintiffs readily agreed to the proposal. NECF then met PG and conveyed the proposal.
However, on 25 May 2010, the Plaintiffs were told by NECF that Steven Kum had telephoned them the day before to convey PG’s reply. PG refused mediation and arbitration. This was most shocking news. Yet NECF was not willing to give up. They wanted to meet with PG again to try to persuade him that Christian arbitration would be the right and proper way to resolve the crisis. The Plaintiffs waited with much hope but in September 2010, the Plaintiffs were finally told that NECF had given up on trying to persuade PG to go for Christian arbitration. As far as NECF was concerned, PG had officially refused mediation and Christian arbitration.
NECF, being just a fellowship of churches and Christian organistions, has no authority over Calvary Church or PG but for the sake of the Kingdom, let us hope that they will rely on their spiritual authority as the umbrella body for nearly all the evangelical churches in Malaysia to help bring the Calvary Church crisis to a close.
43 comments:
Dear CT,
Any update on the court case with the 7 plaintiffs ?
Fr CT2 @ February 15, 2011 10:39 AM
Please do remember that in the mind of PG, he has done no wrong, so no need to mediate or arbitrate. As simple as that. So do not fret over it.
Fr CT2 @ February 15, 2011 2:40 PM
Just don't compromise so much as to merely keeping peace without bringing real peace to the church. Remember that the 7 concern members's decision of resolution may not necessary represent the thousands of Christians who want PG to repent and resigned without condition, nor represent the 400 victims whose blood shed innocently. PG has sinned and that is the fact. No resolution should label that otherwise. Sin is sin and he must apologize and admit he has done wrong; not looking for a way to resolve the saga while hiding his act as non-sin. I do not know what are the conditions NECF lay for the resolution and what the 7 members have agreed. In my opinion, even if the 7 members give up on the courtcase and accept any conditions, the Christian community would not accept PG as a good believer how much less a pastor.
Remember the words of Mordecai to Esther in Est 4:13-14. Even the 7 members may agreed for resolution with PG don't have to admit the sin of corruption, God will continue to raise people to voice against PG's sins.
The 7 members only make decision for the courtcase, but not for entire true Christians who accept nothing less than PG apologize, return his cheated money to the church and resigned. We just cannot accept a pastor who refuse to admit his sin to continue hypocritely preach in church. Basically there is only one godly real solution to the problem. PG apologise and resigned unconditinally and should not be seen as pastor anymore. His corruption deeds should be documented as lesson learnt to future pastors all over the whole.
Fr CT2 @ February 15, 2011 4:39 PM
Why are you so bitter? It's time to move on. Let God deal with PG. Don't try to be God. Vengence is mine, says the Lord. What right have we to play God?
Fr CT2 @February 15, 2011 5:07 PM
I am amazed..
I've never heard of anyone so thick skinned as PG, his family and his team of Associate Pastors and BODs. Dont they have any conscience at all?
If they have nothing to hide, then clearly they should be the ones to abide by I Cor 6 n INSIST on Christian mediation and arbitration.
Instead, they have chickened out each time. Can't believe people are still working with/for them and flocking to hear their sermons. How can anyone stand stand their faces of hypocrisy???
Just amazed..
Fr CT2 @ February 15, 2011 9:53 PM
I think what Anonymous Feb 15 4:39pm means is that even with repentance, SP and family should go.
Forgiveness is one thing but forgetting is another. There can never be anymore trust in these perpetrators of God's innocent church members. That includes the Assoc Pastors, BODs as well. They will all have to go for condoning the wicked acts of SP.
Btw, from now, he should be referred to as Mr Guneratnam, MG. I believe that in God's eyes, MG is no more anointed to be a Pastor, let alone a SP !!! So do not give him the glory he doesn't deserve! Agree??
Anyway, no one is expecting SP to apologise and then continue to lead CC. I believe CT is working towards revamping the whole leadership team of CC when this nightmare is over.
Why won't SP step down humbly and lay down his life for his brethren if he thinks he's so right??
What a selfish, disillusioned man and family and team of die hard supporters. Are they so blind or what??
Am So Amazed !!!
Fr CT2 @ February 15, 2011 10:13 PM
I am very disppointed by the AoG General Council in handling this crisis.
At the rate this CC crisis is going, it will affect other AoG churches in the country. Who knows whether there are any AoG pastors who behave in the same manner as PG?
Fr CT2 @ February 16, 2011 12:24 AM
Wonderful to know of NECF's efforts. Well done to the NECF leaders.
But here's something I don't understand, if PG refuses to listen to the leaders of NECF, why is he still their advisor?
http://necf.org.my/index.cfm?&menuid=6
Let's move on. Let go and let God.
I trust God has a plan for PG and those who followed him. The day will come when the plan is executed. It's their choice and God allow us to choose. Dont play a fool with God. PG is already at the stage as the Chinese movie usually play... 'Jau For Yap More' where he no longer can be help by human but only through the power of God. We are all dealing with spirit warfare here as he is already been possessed. That's why it is of no used to talk to him anymore as Spirit of God has left him long time ago and his ability to allow Satan to work in him as a human and also deceived those around him that stay faithful to him instead of God the almighty.
The only way to win this war is to FORGIVE HIM and ASK GOD TO BLESS HIM from now. Do it daily and by doing so, you will be release from his bondage and I guarantee you will see result very soon. I dare say this from my experience, I fought the similar spiritual warfare and already received the result. We need to fight these spiritual warfare together as Satan power is getting stronger and affecting us and people we love more when we do not choose to forgive and ask God to bless them. Satan or people who are bond in Satan CANNOT STAND THE BLESSING OF GOD.
Let's do it together daily.
God Bless you all!
PONDER OVER ALL THESE THAT HAVE TAKEN PLACE IN CC, and YOU KNOW IF WHAT HAVE BEEN EXPOSED IN THIS BLOG ARE FACTS.
A LIST oF UNGODLY BEHAVIOUR of leadership in CC, but by NO MEANS EXHAUSTIVE.
Arrogant & Cold hearted:
1. Witch hunt of members during the Ceramah
campaign to cover-up their mismanagement.
2.Arbitrary Sacking of Dr. Lum & unconstitutional
removal of est 400 voting & associate Members
3.Ps David on PG's order went round to shut down
Home Cells (bec of TTG link, even 'remotely!)) and
called it "tough love"
4. Ps SKUM abandoned the Youth in CA and silenced
their quest for speaking truth. Even prevented a few from attending the Youth Camp!!! Betrayed their trust and caused deep hurt to many affected.
5. Pam G's tenure as Youth "Pastor" put down those who desired to serve. in one incident a young budding teenager was told in a leadership meeting, that she did not have the quality of leadership openly. ( she was so humiliated and shaken, and it took many of those true friends to rally around her to overcome the insult) For the record, one has gone on to serve as youth pastor in another striving church and the latter continue to serve effectively, as with all in their group--faithful to God)
5. Ps.Peter Ong collaborated with PG to misuse the
Missions Funds
6. ps Timothy Ong defended PG's unauthorised
Claims etc, and acted aggressively on AGMs
7. ps Richard, Raymond and all others went along with the flow without courage to stand up for righteousness.
8. BOD collaborated in PG's scheming, and always tell Congregation half truths. Condoned wrong doing and unfair practices of PG & PG2.
9. PG & PG2 blatant abused their powers as SP/Sr
asst SP for their own benefit --children's (Pam/Jim)+spouses & even grandchildren (PG the third) too. High (unmerited) salaries & perks, Big Position created for themselves (e.g. PG JR. aka Jim, Executive Asst. to SP aka father!), Project Director for Multi Million CCC-- with Zero Experience); Pam G,Head of Counseling, as fresh grad. without any experience then. Youth Pastor ( by appointment of PG aka 'Dad') Hypocritical 'love' for members. Their selective' care & concern' for the Rich, rich & rich only.
ETC ( go to CT archive)
Can any of them be ministers as "servants" of God?
PGs think they are above the Law, the 'supreme' couple--so, why be surprised over the failed mediation efforts by concerned Christian fraternity.
Still, much as I am honestly disgusted by what they have done, let's sincerely pray they will confess to God and come clean.
Fr CT2 @ February 16, 2011 1:24 AM
The PGs & CC leadership's hidden 'Arrogance' that was manifested in 1998 and NOW it has came to pass in 2011 ! Has the Prophecy indeed come to pass ?
Fr CT2 @ February 16, 2011 10:27 AM
To Anonymous 11.30am,
Move on, yes, I agree. In fact I too have moved on to another church which is Spirit-filled and where the sermons are meaningfull, unlike the garbage messages from CC. However, this does not mean I will never ‘move back’ to CC after there is a change of leadership and SP.
But, why did you suggest that we ‘let go’? If we see a wrong, shouldn’t we do whatever we can to make it right? True, God will ultimately triumph, but He usually uses His people as instruments. Perhaps, right now He is using TTG and concerned Christians. If we just ‘let go’ as you suggest, then we are disobeying and not heeding His call.
Therefore, Anonymous 11.30am and others who think like you, please stop planting such negative ideas on this blog. Let go yourself if you wish, but do not advise others to stop doing what is right. In fact, your real motive is in question.
Fr CT2 @ February 16, 2011 5:00 PM
1. Prince G will not repent because of his extreme arrogant. His arrogant is fueled by the many hardcore supporters he has including from the asso pastors. As long as he still has supporters and no one confront him publicly of his sins, he will find no need to repent.
2. Prince G will not repent because of his greed for money. There is still many blind supporters to give to him, and with such money, he can continue to live in lavish lifestyle. It does not bother him if many stumbled or even if the Name of Jesus being criticized among unbelievers due to his corruption acts. All he wanted is continue to enjoy luxury lifestyle.
3. Prince G will not repent because he has a plan to greater deception. He want to complete at least the hall of CCC, to held the World Pentecostal Conference and impress new supporters to replace the existing TTG and concern members. To him, church is just a number, not real souls or flocks of believers. This is a comeback plan for him and he is buying time. The longer he drag from facing judgment, the more he can work on his deception plan. And since many Christians in Malaysia are still very much building and facilities orientated rather than judge truthfully, they will easily caught into PG’s scheme.
4. Prince G will not repent because his children depend on him to earn a living. You see, their expenses are huge as they spend waywardly without showing restraint. The source of income is of course from the church, mission giving, high salary and filter of fund in every project. If PG resigned, how his children survive? They don’t have the spiritual quality to be pastors, nor willing to suffer normal work as commoner. They have been so used to luxury life. When do you see them eat economy rice in normal Chinese coffee shop? Never but always gourmet.
Fr CT2 @ February 16, 2011 11:05 PM
Dear Annon 12:22am,
You are such a fiery person. If I read 11.30am properly, it's not asking you to 'let go' of what's need to be done. The continuous support needs to be render to the TTG team and those affected directly by PG.
The let go, is the bitterness we have for PG, our choice to forgive PG to release the bondage/satan plant in us to hate PG that at the end of the day, will definitely affect us one way of another being closer to Satan and ask God to Bless PG, as mentioned by this person, the retribution to PG as a Satan bound person cannot take in Blessing from God.
I too have move on to another Church, been blessed tremendously in Spirit and in Truth. I still support what the group does for their guts, time, effort to see the truth prevail but I will not talk about PG anymore.
;-) Blessing
I also share the same thinking with Annon 11.30am & 2.19pm.
I choose to forgive this satan bound man (PG) and Jesus, bless PG with the blessing of repentency. Allow your Holy Spirit to intervene, convict and take over PG in his thoughts, speech, feel and action. In Jesus Name.
Amen!
Little Pharaoh of Egypt has fallen. I think it's time Little Pharaoh of CC to fall as well! To God be all glory!
Fr CT2 @ February 17, 2011 10:43 AM
The CC saga affect many Christians today whether within CC or outside CC. Everyone who love God's family would concern about the issue.
The more you love God's family, the more you hate PG's corruption and cunning schemes. It is a holy hatred, not bitterness. He who shows no concern shows no love. I think those who genuine care for the family of God as a whole would be in sorrow, which some call bitterness, whatever they wish to call.
Yes, sorrow is bitter, but it is not necessarily bondage to Satan. In fact, some happy-go-lucky attitude who don't care much despite the CC saga may comes from the Satan. It is Satan who promotes negligence, while God promotes diligent. Some of this sorrow is spiritual burden that put in your heart that you may pray diligently until there is a spiritual breakthrough that PG will finally step down from his many years of dictatorship.
As for PG, he would love is CT shut up. He will be glad if all concern members shut up or jump into the lake and died. In fact, the reason why Ps David go around to shut down many cell groups is to avoid the spread of truth through Cell group leaders who concern about the CC saga. The same reason why PG want CT and BeritaCalvary to close down. They even try to vote for it even though CC has no power over these blogs. All these as well as other cunning & dirty tactics is to shut up the voices of truth because when the light of truth shine bright, the darkness will be expose. The Dark Prince try to isolate the news of his sins from spreading. He even instruct his supporters not to visit this site, fear that they see the truth that set them free.
Fr CT2 @ February 17, 2011 10:34 PM
If you feel sorrow over the CC saga, don't feel guilty. It is normal. It is what a concern Christian should feel. Sorrow may be bitter, but how can we feel sweet seeing God's family persecuted by the monarchy of PG? It is love to feel sad over the situation. And it is ok to talk about it. It is alright to express your anger. Afterall, i believe the Lord is angry too at PG and his gangs to exploit His family. it is holy anger that angry at sins, especially unrepented sins which persist to be arrogant. Only those who don't care about their brothers and sisters and those who live ignorant would not feel sorrow over the CC situation. If you weep, the Lord probably weep even more than you. Do you think God is blind that He merely wanted new members via evangelism while accepting corrupt pastors corrupting His church? Certainly not. Our God is the Lord who has integrity.
Fr CT2 @ February 17, 2011 10:42 PM
1. Carry one another burdens (Gal 6:2) by comfort the hurt and help in standing up for their right. United with true believers and share in the fellowship of His suffering. Comfort the persecuted, protect the hurt and defend their right.
Heb 10:33 say, “at other times you stood side by side with those who were so treated”
2. Be good Samaritan (Luke 10:33). It is easy to move on and let go…selfishly. But the good Samaritan would rather stop by and help the wounded. He is willing to help the hurt; rather than like PG who step on the hurt and backfire the stumbled via so called sermon, and still dare to take the holy communion.
3. Forgive does not necessary means approve. Don’t be silent as such portray consent. Be vocal to speak against PG’ sins. Disapprove his sins, judge and bind it. Put it into captivity in the Name of Jesus. Pray against PG’s dirty scheme and harden heart. Bring greater awareness to the uninformed brothers.
4. Use the God given authority to us to establish His principles on earth.
If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven (John 20:23). The authority is not given for vain. We are responsible to support justice, truth, and godly values established on earth. Don’t be a negligence steward. Rebuke evil, fight injustice, confront terrorist, and against hypocrisy.
5. Don’t compromise God’s integrity by closing one eye. Don’t let the Name of our God be mocked. AOG may have compromise. NECF may have weak in handling the issue, but the standard of God never falls short of His glory. What is right is right and what is wrong is wrong. No negotiation can reduce God’s standard or twisted His truth. Sin requires repentant and no less. There is no provision of escape to PG other than to admit his sins, repent, apologize and resign. This is the way. There is no negotiation of fake repentant. When there is no regret or sorry, it is not called repentant.
6. Don’t be a mute dog who cannot bark (Isa 56:10). Be a faithful watchman, for God is using some of you to bring about great revival and restoration of His church. Be a part of His plan to do church housekeeping. God is using you to clean His household from the dirt of corruption and the yeast of hypocrisy. And His work through you will be a witness to others in other church. The wolves (Eze 22:27) and the fox (Luke 13:32) who exploit and manipulate God’s people in other churches will tremble before Him when they heard how the Lord has uses you, for God hates those who plunder His church via many exploitation schemes and dishonest gain.
7. Tell the people to learn from present situation. Bring greater awareness. “Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them” (Eph 5:11). Let it be a lesson learnt. Educate the younger generation. Make reformation in the church institution concerning accountability. Pray that the future generation of pastors and Christian community that they may hold onto God’s integrity in their serving and leadership. Bring greater awareness!! Expose the deeds of darkness!!
Fr CT2 @ February 17, 2011 10:44 PM
BRAVO TO THE NECF!
They have done their duty and I salute them for their leadership. Sadly, I cannot say the same to the AOG. The AOG will have to give an account to the Lord for their failure.
1. WHAT NEXT?
The Bible is very clear in Matthew 18:15-18
15. “If your brother or sister sins, go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over.
16. But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’
17. If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.”
2. WHAT NEXT?
NOW THAT THE SENIOR PASTOR HAS REFUSED MEDIATION, THE BOD HAS A DUTY TO REVEAL HIS FAULT BEFORE THE CHURCH (MATT 18:17 & 1TM 5:20).
OTHERWISE, THE BOD CAN ALSO BE JUDGED BY FELLOW CHRISTIANS!
(I WONDER WHETHER THE SAME APPLIES TO THE AOG!)
3. WHAT NEXT?
THE CHRISTIAN COMMUNITY MUST EXCOMMUNICATE HIM FROM FELLOWSHIP & TURN HIM AWAY. (1COR 5:5, 1TIM 1:20, 2 THESS 3:6).
Pastors of Churches should have no fellowship with him unless the purpose is to advice the Senior Pastor to repent and to seek restoration.
4. WHAT NEXT?
Matt 18:18 “Truly I tell you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.
Let us bind what the Word of God says:-
1. GOD WILL DISCIPLINE THE SENIOR PASTOR (1COR. 11:30, HEB 12:6)
2. GOD MAY TAKE HIS SERVANT HOME (1 JOHN 5:16, 1 COR 11:30 & JAMES 1:14-15)
These are not my words but what the BIBLE says. Let those who have ears to hear, discern what the Spirit is saying.
I can give you living testimonies that the Word of God is True and it is my prayer that the Lord will act and let the 'Fear of the Lord' sweep through the Christian community so that all will know that the Christian God is a JUST and RIGHTEOUS GOD.
Vijay
Fr CT2 @ February 18, 2011 8:59 AM
Still amazed..
Its so sad that these CC evildoers have caused such a rift among the brethren in this blog etc.
I think suing the perpetrators is not the answer. Godly mediation per I Cor:6 is. We have to keep trying to see if any Church, anywhere around the world for that matter, would get SP & Co to participate.
Until that happens, CT should keep emailing till a Mediator is found and the offending CC team agrees. And by so doing, PG's deeds would have been so exposed, he would be too ashamed even to live in Malaysia. There is no other way but to persist in Godly Mediation in accordance with I Cor 6. They either have to co-operate OR leave in shame.
True repentance means PrinceG & Co have to restore to the Church and repay all that he has 'stolen' from the Church and God.
Luke 19:8 says "Then Zacchaeus stood and said to the Lord, “Look, Lord, I give half of my goods to the poor; and if I have taken anything from anyone by false accusation, I restore fourfold.”
Do you think PG would repent? He loves his luxuries and $$$ too much or he would have stepped down already, regardless of whether he thinks he's right or not.
He obviously serves mammon and has no Love. Jesus is Love. Hence he doesn't have Jesus or he would have love. Love for the church members, for the hurting axed members and grieving families.
Such is his selfishness when as a 'shepherd', he should practice selflessness instead!!! Enough of arguing. More needs to be done (not by way of suing) but by police intervention and request for Godly mediation until it happens, or until the whole world knows and boycott CC altogether.
Then the whole worldly team of PG,his family and diehard team will be forced to go or preach to themselves.
Can we all have a meeting to discuss the next course of actions instead of just deliberating endlessly and getting upset with one another here??
Can CT call an urgent meeting? This matter shouldnt be procrastinated nor endured any longer while we continue to gripe and gripe.
Its ok to take action as a preventative measure so other unsuspecting members will not suffer under their 'care' and leadership.
Fr CT2 @ February 18, 2011 11:01 AM
"Speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves, for the rights of all who are destitute" (Pro 31:8).
Fr CT2 @ February 19, 2011 4:46 PM
I agree with Anoy of February 18, 2011 11:01 AM.
The next action shall be planned.
The next plague against PG will come.
Just like Pharaoh of Egypt refuse to let the Israelites go, so is PG who refuse to resign and repent. So he will face the plague from God.
Fr CT2 @ February 19, 2011 11:54 PM
Ever wondered why AOG Malaysia does not take any action to resolve the conflict in CC. Look no further. PG was the General Superintendent from 1974 to 2000 and is now the General Superintendent Emeritus. Rev Ong Sek Leang is now the General Superintendent. When PG was the GS, Rev. Ong was only in the shadows.
So it's a foregone conclusion that PG was the mentor for most of the office bearers who are now in AOG Malaysia.
PG is the Chairman of Pentecostal World Fellowship for 2010 - 2013. And he has committed to hold the PWC 2013 from August 27 to August 30, 2013. See how he hungers for fame and glory. And guess who is assisting PG to host the conference? None other than Rev. Ong. Rev. Ong Sek Leang is the Chairman of the Host Committee of the PWC 2013.
Can you see through the screen now why AOG Malaysia does not act? PG seeking fame, status and glory has been rubbing shoulders with many in world bodies and admittedly quite known. The others on stage now like Rev. Ong who is seeking a seat on the international scene will not antagonize their mentor who will also be able to put in a good word for them and beneficial in their quest for fame and glory. See the scenario now. I rest my case.
Fr CT2 @ February 20, 2011 3:38 PM
"World this, World that...", "President this, President that" GENUINE servants of God seek none of these.
Actually, serving God is a so straight forward: Love for the lost with the Love of Christ that they may come to know Heavenly Father and He be glorified. It's all about servanthood--to serve and not to lord over those under their care or anyone, for that matter. It's HUMILITY, not glory & grandiose driven!
That's why such BIG title/Position have gone into PG's head, and likes of him, and became "SWOLLEN HEADED"
We must be able to recognise it is useless:"having a FORM of Godliness, but denying its power"
Q. Does PG and likes of him fit this description?
Fr CT2 @ February 20, 2011 10:01 PM
Be Still and KNow that I AM THE LORD YOUR GOD.
Behold I AM COMING SOON!
Fr CT2 @ February 20, 2011 11:05 PM
My oh my! PG, Senior Pastor of Calvary Church who is in the centre of so much controversy regarding mismanagement and abuse of privileges and with a court pending is the Chairman of PWC2013. And the General Superintendent of Assemblies of God, Malaysia, Rev. Ong Sek Leang, the PWC 2013 Host Chairman. How comical can it get? The GS AOG M'sia taking action against his senior in the world body PWC thus endangering his aspirations. Forget it! Those who are still harbouring such hopes better divert their energy to other avenues.
It is unbelievable that nobody in the international religious bodies are aware that PG is immersed in controversies. Or is it they are all denying all knowledge as history shows.
The PWC 2013 is 18 months away. TTG together with its concerned members must take more action to spread its quest for "truth, transparency and good governance" to more people internationally. And plan strategies to bring awareness to the thousand or so delegates at the PWC 2013 like hanging a banners on vans or MPV's outside CCC. Create a doubt and curiosity in these delegates so that some of them will read CT's blog. Time to move up a notch - PG is so arrogant and recalcitrant that he has rebuffed all attempts to end the saga.
BTW, Rev. Young HL is the Senior Pastor of YFGC, David Yonggi Cho is the Senior Pastor Emeritus. Hope we do not have "emeritus" all over PG's name in future. Otherwise the honourary titles will be three miles long.
fr CT2 @ February 21, 2011 7:08 PM
sad, after so many years with the lord, realize that many mix the ideas n ideology of man as the teaching of the bible, and continue to feed members, these unmatured will never know coz they being fed with shark fins n bird nest soup all the while. NOTE TO CHRISTIANS, read the bible and start asking questions, ask questions, ask questions, coz human intelligence does not match with heavenly wisdom, do not just follow but keep asking quetions, if your leaders or pastors brush you off, beware.... the tell tale signs are here...may the lord Jesus Christ enligthens us...
fR ct2 @ February 22, 2011 9:35 PM
The rot started a long time ago and only now the elements are exposing the shallow roots by shaking the tree.... Its no more about servanthood these days. Now its all about big building and a heirarchy of titles.The trouble is we are all swayed by speakers rather than their spiritual depth.How many pastors you hear today who do house visitation or visiting their sick???? Most of them are caught upp with their bug building. Big building are okay- BUT if there is a political disturbance in this land, then the building become the target- like it happened in Indonesia.The question is - do we really need mega multi million dollar buildings? Human nature has never changed- " lets build a tower that reaches up to heaven...." sound familiar...?????? the result was chaos and confusion.
Fr CT2 @February 21, 2011 5:35 PM
In the course of a conversation, Pam in the furniture business cropped up. Someone remarked "Didn't she resigned from CC to do some studies?"
Then I remembered that some time ago it was announced at the pulpit that Pam has resigned to continue her studies.
When the members of CLM were asked for a update about her, the reply was she's in KL but does not know what studies she is doing.
Again the announcement from the pulpit is a half-truth. The pulpit has made so many half-truths and subjects matters which are from far the truth. It has now become "the boy who cried wolf" and those in CC should now take whatever is said at the pulpit as "take it with a pinch of salt".
If Pam is truly in the furniture business, it is a lucrative venture if she is awarded the contract furnitures, furnishings and fixtures in CCC. This will run into millions of ringgits. No doubt PG may have a hand in it - like shares in the company or provide financial backing.
Whatever it is, if the contract is given to Pam, it is nepotism and a conflict of interest on PG's part.
Remember PG2 made a statement of the year when she said "I don't know what is CBT". Then she may make another statement of the year "I don't know what is conflict of interest".
Let's pray that all contracts awarded in relation to CCC will be through open tenders and carefully scrutinized by a board. History has shown that Calvarites are always kept in the dark and and details are not divulged. Example: For the present works, PS only announced that "a new contractor has been appointed" but no details on the name of the company nor how the tender was processed and awarded.
We are talking of millions and millions and yet details are minimum. How to support such expensive projects???
Fr CT2 @ February 27, 2011 10:14 PM
Even should PGs be able to fool the world,
he sure can't escape our ALL KNOWING GOD.
For us who know what the PGs have been up to,
just take it cool, he is already found out, now it's just
how it will end.
Fr CT2 @ February 28, 2011 11:34 PM
MIRACLES IN THE MAKING
Let us all learn valuable lessons from the events that are happening in the Middle East. Starting from Yemen, spreading to Egypt, Libya, Aden the ordinary people from all walks of life were united in spirit to fight for freedom, against years, even decades of oppression ... against heavy odds, against tanks, artillery pieces, armoured vehicles, armed trucks, war planes, trained soldiers and police, imported mercenaries,etc. It is nothing short of modern day miracles happening before our very eyes - history in the making. Most of all - Our God listens to HIS peoples' cries ! If God attends to cries of our Middle east brothers and sisterfs, what about us ? Won't He heed our prayers for help too ? But of course !
Fr CT2 @ February 28, 2011 11:52 PM
I just heard from a sister that the " AMPANG Calvary Church Sunday Service " is now closed for good! No more " Spirit filled Service "? Turn Off The Tap ( TOTT ) seemed to work well in the longer term TO STOP FINANCIAL ABUSES!
Fr CT2 @ March 2, 2011 8:52 AM
Can someone please confirm the news I heard that CC borrowed another RM7 million from Public Bank for the CCC project?
Fr CT2 @ March 2, 2011 8:23 PM
PG hold onto his idol property CCC at all cost even if ministry collapse. This clearly shows that his real motive is not ministry but power, fame and wealth for himself and his family. I think he never means ministry from day one when he is hired. He probably never been called into ministry, how much less to has a heart to minister. His real motive now is clearly shown. Pray that his many followers will soon realize the truth and repent.
Last Sunday, SK try to uses the usual tactic of calvary persuasion by saying that you are all good givers, we are all calvarites, etc in his attempt to persuade the congregation to submit to PG’s schemes using unity as theme. But when he approves the sacking of the 400 members, did he think about unity? Did he sees each person sacked as calvarite?
Well, the same with David Seah. When he goes from one LG to another, to investigate and shut down whichever that seek for truth and transparency, did he talk about unity? Did he sees each LG as part of Calvary church? I think he should go back to the toilet where he belong, ponder at the reflection of the water and think what he has done. His “ministry” creates more harm than good to the people by being one of the right hand of PG…right hand with axes.
Fr CT2 @ March 2, 2011 11:24 PM
Recently I read the following in a blog.
When you go to a place to worship God, that is a church.
When you go to a place to worship man, that is a cult.
When you preach about the love of God that helps the poor and needy, that is following the Bible.
When you preach about money to live a rich and luxurious lifestyle, that is following Hollywood.
Fr CT2 @ March 3, 2011 10:15 PM
When God told David Wilkerson to start a church in the heart of New York City he was downcast.Given his little congregation,it was impossible to come up with the $$$.But nevertheless,he obeyed His voice and went to NYC and when God showed him the particular building-he was even more downcast.I have been there a few times and downtown there are buildings for broadway shows.The prices are astronomical.But eventually God put it in someones heart to sell the building to David W- for the price of US1/!!!!!
Now thats is what I call the leading of God.Not to put up a stupid looking building, Stressing out the members by asking for $$$ all the time and sacking those who don't share in his personal vision.Calvarites- face the reality.Its time to move on.I tell you this man wont budge-until the last person stays on.These days people in the Middle East are throwing shoes at the leader whom previously they adored.This is the worst insult they can cast.PG and cronies- if you are reading this-dont carry on like this.Resign and earn your bread in a decent manner.Its is complete disgrace.
Fr CT2 @ March 7, 2011 2:52 PM
What is Chris Lee (who is half a G) doing now and what are his responsibilities? He hardly do any song lead now. One can see him walking around during service or just sit in a corner at the back of the band or accompany PG thru the side door just before the service. One can see that the power and arrogance has gone into PG's head. He is behaving like a cabinet minister having someone to accompany him wherever he goes in the church and not a humble pastor.
The church choir has been disbanded and Ps Susan is helping in the children's ministry. Does he train people in musical instruments. I gather that he engages outside instructors and the church pays.
He is having a cosy job and in the comfort zone earning probably more than RM10k a month. Too bad PG got only one daughter otherwise I will be tempted to become half a G. It is so obvious nepotism is in the church with Jim the Director of the communications ministry and the book shop, both which are money making departments and Chris having an easy life. And PG2 the senior associate pastor. Just cannot fathom this - what responsibilities comes with this post. Never mind lah, hubby is the senior pastor and head of the woman's department with an income of more than RM15K a month. Was this title given to her when she got an honourary degree. Maybe some ministers should become lawyers when they retire because they have been given honourary law degrees be foreign universities.
Fr CT2 @ March 7, 2011 11:07 PM
DIVINE GUIDANCE
Dear Anonymous - Re Time Square Church (David Wilkerson)
Yes, you got it very right about the beginnings of David Wilkerson’s Time Square Church, NY. I urge all Christians to abide by his teachings because David is a true man of God. Visit :
http://www.tscpulpitseries.org/english/indexchr.html
I too can testify to the Lord financing His own church. When the Lord told a group of my church leaders to start a church in Greenock, near Glasgow, Scotland, they only had 50 pounds. But the Lord told them to engage a lawyer and make an offer for an old abundant church.
In spite of many other offers from more connected people, the leaders’ offer was accepted ……. but they had to pay for the building within one week.
Now where were they going to get the money? In spite of all their efforts, they could not raise the funds.
On the very last day, when the payment must be made, a letter arrived .....and God had answered!
That very week a widow was called home by the Lord and she gave her estate and bank account to the church founding leaders. The Lord provided the funds.
The leaders managed to close the deal at the nick of time! The building still stands today and is the mother church. Interestingly, after closing the deal, they still had a balance. They later found the balance was just the amount to settle the legal fees!
Now that is God in Action. Christian history is filled with many similar testimonies!
***************************************************************
This morning during my quite time, the Lord revealed that His people in Calvary church who still blindly support the present leadership are in DANGER!
With the Senior Pastor rejecting NECF's arbitration effort, members of the Church must recognize that there is indeed a spiritual separation of the present leadership from the Godly Christian community.
Any member who continues to support the present leadership must now know that they have to take responsibilities for their action. They cannot blame the leaders or the BOD! Their decision to continue to support the present leadership is clearly a SIN!
(Note: I believe some of the international leaders who continue to support the Senior Pastor may not know the real story because they have been fed with half truths and lies! OR it is possible they too are so spiritually corrupt they fail to see through the deception)
A principle in DIVINE GUIDANCE is the Lord will only guide us as we are obedient to the light already given. If we chose not to obey the light already given, NO MORE LIGHT (GUIDANCE) WILL BE GIVEN.
THIS MEANS THOSE WHO CHOOSE TO DISOBEY MAY FIND THAT THEIR PRAYERS MAY GO UNANSWERED BECAUSE THEY MAY NOT BE IN THE FAVOUR OF THE LORD.
WAKE UP members who still continue to be blind to the facts! Do your own research and find out the truth and make the right decision. Seek advice from Godly leaders in other churches and make the right decision.
The right decision DOES NOT MEAN YOU MUST LEAVE CAVARY CHURCH. The right decision is you NO LONGER SUPPORT THE PRESENT LEADERSHIP.
Those who need spiritual food and Christian fellowship can attend other Godly churches until the present leadership is removed by the Lord! However, even if you choose to leave, I urge you to keep Calvary Church in your heart daily and intercede. Prayerfully, you may one day return to your home.
Vijay
Fr CT2 @ March 8, 2011 1:44 PM
DIVINE GUIDANCE - THE SIN OF OMISSION
This is a continuation of my earlier blog on Divine Guidance.
James 4:17 “So whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin.”
Did you know that you can sin by not doing ANYTHING AT ALL! That's right, just like you can sin with your ACTIONS (sins of commission); you can also sin with your INACTIONS (sins of omission).
When you know the right thing to do and fail to do it, it is known as a sin of OMISSION. In other words, you OMIT to do the thing that God would have you to do...!
Examples of sins of omission are the following:-
1. Not reaching out to those in need,
2. Having the ability to help and not doing it,
3. Not genuinely seeking the truth because of fear,
4. Not speaking up when you should, (e.g. A person should have testified because he knew the accused was innocent, but he didn't out of fear.)
When we know the right thing to do and don't, that's a sin.
Time and again Biblical history demonstrates that sins of silence and omission are just as fatal as sins of commission.
1. Sarah omitted to say that Abraham was her husband; and was reproved (Gen. 20:16).
2. Because David omitted to enforce the Law's requirements concerning the transport of the tabernacle, a man died. His commission of good didn't outweigh his omission here (1 Chron. 15:13).
3. The sin of omitting obedience was as bad as committing witchcraft (1 Sam. 15:23).
4. Because the priests omitted to care for Israel, they were counted as the wolves- their sin of omission was counted as one of commission (Ez. 34:9,10).
5. " As troops of robbers wait for a man, so the company of priests murder in the way" (Hos. 6:9) is the basis for the Lord's parable of the injured man on the Jericho road. But He turns it round- He makes a difference between the robbers and the priest. And yet according to this Hosea passage, there is no difference between the robbers and the priest who passes by. Surely the point of the allusion to Hosea 6:9 was that the priest who omitted to help was as bad as the robbers who committed the attack.
This is how serious are sins of omission.
Vijay
Fr CT2 @ March 8, 2011 5:18 PM
just IMAGINE : if that building is completed and fully packed each service, i wonder if the holy spirit led them there to worship God or just attracted to the nice and comfortable place, got face to tell others...coz so so futuristic, modern n so....so...so...
would you attend any church service under a tree or just anywhere outdoor? but the presence of God is real, not that we are so poor but we truly concern about others just as the bible says, that the 3M is our concern, may the lord help us.( 3M: ME, MY , MINE )
Fr CT2 @ March 8, 2011 9:36 PM
LET THE TRUTHS BE OUT - FOR ALL TO SEE & BE WARNED
We have been noticing a trend of censureship. We hope that from now onwards CT would print all comments, whether favorable or unfavorable, from bloggers, and not block out what we take the time and trouble to share our thoughts and feelings with others in the same horrible predicaments / ruts due to or caused by the present satanic leadership of our church. Please print verbatim our blogs. Please do not censure or delete or modify the truths, esp the very ugly truths about these rouge leaders and their equally sinful cohorts. In particular, the newcomers and drop in visitors, including unwary (innocently conscripted to sell CCC)invited speakers, to our church need to be forewarned about the dark secret sinful lives these cult leaders, including the Prince of Darkness, have been trying to hide. Stop censuring the truths. The whole world must know about the evil ones and their dark deeds.
They, not we, should be ashamed.
Evil should be exposed, not hidden.
Thank you.
Fr CT2 @ March 21, 2011 11:47 AM
Responding to Anonymous @ March 21, 2011 11:47 AM
We have done a check and have confirmed that we have released 98 percent of Comments placed by readers here VERBATIM. The administrators DO NOT "CENSURE" as you mentioned but we believe you mean CENSOR any Comments placed here.
We definitely HAVE NOT deleted or modified the truths that readers have taken the time to write.
We believe that you are trying to discredit the contents in Calvary Today by painting a picture that the administrators tamper with Comments made by genuine well meaning readers. However, we apologize to you if this is not true.
Having clarified that, we acknowledge that there are a few Comments placed here which we did not release. These Comments either have no relevance to the topic or it contained harsh and malicious words. Vicious statements are also not released so that it does not spark off a cyber quarrel here.
We also have not released Comments that are advertising products or services.
On another note, sometimes, your Comment may seem to be skipped and released much later. The reason is either Blogger has classified it as SPAM and therefore overlooked or the administrators are unsure of the contents and need some clarification. Either way, efforts are made to ensure all Comments are released as quickly as possible.
We wish to place a gentle reminder here.
- Please do not make Comments that are NOT TRUE
- Please do not use HARSH LANGUAGE to describe anyone
- Please do not use any VICIOUS STATEMENTS on anyone.
Finally, we wish to call upon all Calvarites and Ex-Calvarites and friends to pray for the coming Court Mediation set to take place on 24 March 2011 (this Thursday) to go on smoothly and that there will be a resolution to end this Saga amicably by both parties.
God bless
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