Here are the audio clips of what Bro Han Joke Kwang and Senior Pastor Prince (PG) said at the services about the advances for the CCC. Almost the entire long-winded altar call by PG was to cajole the members to give to the CCC. Both offerings collected during the two services on that Sunday were also channeled to the CCC.
Clip 1 : Listen to what HJK and PG said about the members of Calvary Church
What Bro Han Joke Kwang said (with CT's comments in blue)
Bro Han explained that Bank Negara approval has been obtained to allow the Church to collect short term interest-free advances from members only for the construction of the CCC. All advances must be put in by 30 September 2010 and will be a fixed period of up to 5 years until 2015.
Advances will be repaid to members within 30 days of the maturity date or within 30 days in the event of death of the member. Upon maturity, members may choose to extend the advance subject to repayment by 30 September 2015 which is the final repayment date set by Bank Negara. Members may choose to convert their advances into a contribution at any time before or upon maturity. The terms of the Advances will be documented in a Statement of Understanding.
The Church expects to receive advances of between RM10,000 to RM100,000 from 60% of the members to achieve the target of RM35 million. This will save the Church at least RM8 million in interest saving. Of course, he did not elaborate that this means the burden of this RM8 million interest saving is indirectly passed on to the members either in the form of loss in potential investment income or loan interest to be paid to the bank by the member if he/she chooses the unwise route of taking a bank loan to advance to the Church.
Bro Han advised members to provide adequately for their own personal needs during their participating period of the advance. In other words, if the members get into financial difficulties during the tenure of the advance, the Church is unlikely to help them out or repay their advances early. Members should heed this warning seriously as the world economic outlook is not looking good at this moment and there are expectations and forecasts of an impending worldwide recession. As CT has stated earlier, if members wish to give an advance, give only what you can afford to lose.
The repayment of the RM35 million advances will be from cash flow surpluses of the Church or if need be, from the sale or refinance of the Church properties valued at RM52 million. As the surplus income over expenses is reducing drastically due to the falling attendances and members becoming wise, the possibility of the Church having to sell its properties is real.
This is a deviation from the original plan when CCC was first mooted. Members were assured then that the main Damansara Heights church and possibly Damansara Perdana church will not be closed or sold even after the CCC is built. Sis Petrina, had in the past, also assured members that Damansara Heights building will continue to be used for Sunday services, small meetings and to hold wedding services.
The reality now is that, the CALVARY CHURCH that God has built in the last 48 years (and not 40 years as PG claimed in his sermon) may be gone for good. In its place, the iconic CCC (if completed) will stand to the glory of PG and the freemason architect and not to the glory of God as PG, Sis Petrina and the Deacons have always proclaimed. How can a building not even known as a church bring glory to God? How many non-Christians will actually know what the name “Calvary” means if it does not have the word “Church” attached to it?
In the presentation, Bro Han did not explain the costs and expenditure of the CCC project. He did not clarify what the RM35 million advances and the existing cash balance in the bank can achieve.
According to a reliable source, the Church needs RM70 to RM80 million just to construct the roof and walls on a shell and core basis. To be able to have a proper sanctuary (of less than 5,000 seats) to worship in, the Church needs a further RM30 million. Where this money will come from, no one has any idea. We can only assume by our calculation, the Church will have to draw down on the Alliance Bank loan facility of RM35 million. If this bank loan is taken up, then all the main properties will become encumbered as the bank loan is secured by the properties.
If this happens and the Church sells the properties later, the sale proceeds cannot be used to repay the members’ advances as the bank will have the first right over the sale proceeds. Our beloved Church is certainly in dire straits!
Clip 2 : HJK giving the introduction to the "Advance To CCC"
What PG said during altar call (with CT's comments in blue)
During the long-winded altar call, PG psyched up the congregation into giving an advance as well as renewing their contribution pledge to the CCC building fund. He told the members it is a wonderful privilege to be able to give an advance to the CCC. He gave suggestions on the many ways the members can bring an advance in, namely from:
1) money that they have kept aside
2) money that they can have access to
3) money that they have that can pay up an existing personal loan
4) to take a loan
Members should exercise wisdom in this area of giving and financial stewardship. Money which you have kept aside for a rainy day or for your children’s education or for your retirement or for whatever purposes should remain kept by members for the purposes it was intended. Please remember that providing for your family’s welfare or for your future is biblical. It is not “hoarding up treasures on earth”.
We do not know what PG meant by “money that we can have access to”. If you are in a position of trust like a Fund Manager or the Treasury Officer or Accountant of your company, please do not touch the money which is entrusted to you or under your control. Do not entertain the thought that God has placed you where you are for a time such as this.
If you have money to pay off an existing loan, please do so. Please do not channel it to CCC and continue to be in debt. Lastly, do not take out a loan to give an advance to CCC.It is not a wise thing to do.
PG stated that “I don’t want to go on Facts….I want to go on the Truth…I want to move on the Word of God but God’s Word tells me. Do this out of a willing heart because the Bible says it is those who are willing and obedient, they will eat the fruit of the land…and if you’re not willing, you won’t be obedient…..”
He subtly put fear in the minds of the congregation that if they are not willing and obedient to give, they will not eat the fruit of the land. It is sad that he has taken the Word of God out of context to induce members to give.
Clip 3: PG giving a long winded altar call to get members to give the "Advance". This clip in only a fraction of the actual length.
PG even puts additional words in the Good Samaritan’s mouth. He quoted the Good Samaritan as telling the inn-keeper “I can’t give this to you now but you give first” and proceeded to ask the members to give first!
We are lost for words!!!
PG then called on the members to “Seal what you are giving with Communion”.
Huh???
Clip 4 : The Good Samaritan as interpreted by PG
****************************************
This short explanation on the story of the Good Samaritan was put in as a Comment by a reader. We do feel that all who are reading and listening to Clip 4, should have a right understanding of the Good Samaritan story in the Bible.
The Parable of the Good Samaritan tells the story of a man traveling from Jerusalem to Jericho and while on the way he is robbed of everything he had including his clothing, and is beaten to within an inch of his life.
That road was treacherously winding and was a favorite hideout of robbers and thieves.
The next character Jesus introduces into His story is a priest. He spends no time describing the priest and only tells of how he showed no love or compassion for the man by failing to help him and passing on the other side of the road so as not to get involved.
If there would have been anyone who would have known God’s law of love it would have been the priest. By nature of his position he was to be a person of compassion desiring to help others.
Unfortunately love was not a word for him that required action on the behalf of someone else.
The next person to pass by in the parable of the Good Samaritan was a Levite, and he does exactly the same thing that the priest did;
he passed by without showing any compassion. Again he would have known the law, but he also failed to show the injured man compassion.
The next person to come by was the Samaritan, the one least likely to have shown compassion for the man. Samaritans were considered a low class of people by the Jews since they had intermarried with non-Jews and did not keep all the law.
Therefore, Jews would have nothing to do with them. We do not know if the injured man was a Jew or Gentile, but it made no difference to the Samaritan, he did not consider the man’s race or religion.
The “Good Samaritan” saw only a person in dire need of assistance and assist him he did, above and beyond the minimum required.
He would dress the man’s wounds with wine (to disinfect) and oil (to sooth the pain). He put the man on his animal and took him to an inn for a time of healing and paid the innkeeper with his own money. He then went beyond common decency and told the innkeeper to take could care of the man and he would pay for any extra expenses on his return trip. The Samaritan saw his neighbor as anyone who was in need.
Because the good man was a Samaritan Jesus is drawing a strong contrast between those who knew the law and those who actually followed the law in their lifestyle and conduct. Jesus now asks the lawyer if he can apply the lesson to his own life with the question, “So which of these three do you think was neighbor to him who fell among the thieves?" (Luke 10:36). Once again the lawyer’s answer is telling of his personal hardness of heart. He cannot bring himself to say the word Samaritan, he refers to the “good man” as “he who showed mercy.” His hate for the Samaritans (his neighbor) was so strong that he couldn’t even address him in a proper way. Jesus then tells the lawyer to “go and do likewise,” meaning that he should start living what the law tells him to do.
That road was treacherously winding and was a favorite hideout of robbers and thieves.
The next character Jesus introduces into His story is a priest. He spends no time describing the priest and only tells of how he showed no love or compassion for the man by failing to help him and passing on the other side of the road so as not to get involved.
If there would have been anyone who would have known God’s law of love it would have been the priest. By nature of his position he was to be a person of compassion desiring to help others.
Unfortunately love was not a word for him that required action on the behalf of someone else.
The next person to pass by in the parable of the Good Samaritan was a Levite, and he does exactly the same thing that the priest did;
he passed by without showing any compassion. Again he would have known the law, but he also failed to show the injured man compassion.
The next person to come by was the Samaritan, the one least likely to have shown compassion for the man. Samaritans were considered a low class of people by the Jews since they had intermarried with non-Jews and did not keep all the law.
Therefore, Jews would have nothing to do with them. We do not know if the injured man was a Jew or Gentile, but it made no difference to the Samaritan, he did not consider the man’s race or religion.
The “Good Samaritan” saw only a person in dire need of assistance and assist him he did, above and beyond the minimum required.
He would dress the man’s wounds with wine (to disinfect) and oil (to sooth the pain). He put the man on his animal and took him to an inn for a time of healing and paid the innkeeper with his own money. He then went beyond common decency and told the innkeeper to take could care of the man and he would pay for any extra expenses on his return trip. The Samaritan saw his neighbor as anyone who was in need.
Because the good man was a Samaritan Jesus is drawing a strong contrast between those who knew the law and those who actually followed the law in their lifestyle and conduct. Jesus now asks the lawyer if he can apply the lesson to his own life with the question, “So which of these three do you think was neighbor to him who fell among the thieves?" (Luke 10:36). Once again the lawyer’s answer is telling of his personal hardness of heart. He cannot bring himself to say the word Samaritan, he refers to the “good man” as “he who showed mercy.” His hate for the Samaritans (his neighbor) was so strong that he couldn’t even address him in a proper way. Jesus then tells the lawyer to “go and do likewise,” meaning that he should start living what the law tells him to do.
44 comments:
A simple suggestion with regard to the points raised in the article: if you are not sure and want clarification, you can always go talk to the CCC Secretariat. This offer has been made by the church and I think those who have questions should take it up rather than guessing this way or that.
I was there for the 2nd service. Wanted to hear with my own ears what they would say (lie) to the congregation. Same old same old; give give give.
I was shocked when PG asked the members who can service/pay their loans to take loans and give to the church as an advancement. How low can these people go? Coming from a so-called pastor (he doesn't fit to be one) who encourages the congregation to take loans was unbelievable. On top of that, he made used of the emblem of the Holy Communion to seal the members' commitment into giving the advancement. Oh, that action was blasphemy to me. I refrained myself from taking the Holy Communion for I do not want to be part of this unGodly act.
I believe CT will be able to share more as more recordings being shared.
PG's a vely vely confused man. First he tells the ppl to have compassion and give to CCC. Then he tells the Good samaritan stoly and says the Good Samaritan tells the innkeeper to give first. Then he ask members to giv first also. So if the members has compassion like the Good Samaritan, then PG must be the innkeeper who have vision for a BIG INN. So the Good Samaritan-members must ask PG-innkeeper to advance his own money first to build his inn first. Then later, the Good Samaritan-members will pay back PG-innkeeper for his advance. So we can live happily ever after.
Anonymous,
SP & his pastors says there is nothing wrong in having a 'freemason architect' to design CCC. Do you all pastors know the dark history of freemasonry which are linked to satanic worship? The fact that this freemason architect design CCC to look like a Pharaoh' coffin or a Cobra's head which is satanic, should caused any true christian to doubt. And there is also a 'freemason symbal' on top of CCC! Does God wants HIs house of worship to look like that? Do you pastors in all honesty of heart can still say that there is nothing wrong and that God does not looked into all these
features? There seemed to be no fear of God from you all!
To those who still supports CCC, listen to what Jesus taught on giving. A certain rich man approached Jesus and asked " what shall I do in order to be saved?" Jesus replied, "Go sell all your possessions and GIVE TO THE POOR." Very clear teaching, GIVE TO THE POOR, Jesus did not command the rich man to sell his possessions and give the money to the apostles because they needed money to build bigger premises for worship. This is the Bible teaching on "giving", its the Truth and its the Way and the Will of God. Not the way PG and his pastors expressed on 'giving' in their combined services with misinterpretations & misquoted Bible verses. Who then are you going to believe, PG & his pastors or God of the Bible?
Sad indeed..truly sad for PG and his wayward deacons. I don't know whether to cry or laugh. Parts of this sound like a joke and parts grieve my heart. What they're doing is insane. God's word about temples and buildings is evident in Acts 17:24-31.
In the early morning of July 4th, 2010 - I was given a vision in the form of a dream. In that dream, I saw PG standing on the stage of Sime Darby Convention Centre and preaching. Suddenly, a streak of lightning struck through the middle of the stage and parted it into 2.
I was devastated when I woke up. I went to another church that Sunday morning instead of going to SDCC.
PG said "…and if you’re not willing, you won’t be obedient….."
PGs & his appointed leaders are using " human reasoning " to make members "SINK & DROWN IN GUILT " if they do not give advance, did not borrow to give to advance, do not convert advance into contribution ?
PGs & his appointed leaders have indeed FALLEN in SPIRIT, have REJECTED the TRUTH and LACKING in FAITH !
What they preached are NEGATIVE Human Assurances! It cannot and can Never be from the ABOVE ! It is from the FRESH and Devilish !
Those gifted in the SPIRIT of DISCERNMENT will confirm that many people of God are very deeply troubled by this PG's message!
The SPIRITUAL Realm is very very Troubled!
Let's Fast and Pray for WISDOM and REVELATION from God to prevail in our hearts and minds in Christ Jesus ! AMEN !
What will happen if one's membership is terminated ??? Is your advance automatically converted to a donation or 30 day re-fund ???
Advance to CCC is really a camouflage for giving. At best, you forgo interest on the cash advance. Worst still, CC runs out of funds to repay when surplus dips below current levels.
I am seeing before me a grinning butcher in waiting. CC has lost their shepherds. All we are seeing and hearing these days are butchers in shepherds'
clothes.
Please take note of the key word - AMONG.
Act 20:28-29 (KJV) Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
Act 20:28-29 (NKJV) Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God [fn] which He purchased with His own blood. For I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock.
I want to tell you all who have seen and heard what this dark prince had said that morning was all lies and intimidation. God has departed a long time ago from this church. Why are you still there? Run before the roof collapse on you.
My fellow brethrens in CT,
While I admire your courage & determinism to fight for justice, nevertheless, I am afraid your efforts are all in vain.
For as long as we have that same group of blind followers in CC, they will jump down the river if PG ask them to do so.
Those with brains, logics and reasoning abilities have left CC long ago or at least after CC crisis was highlighted in the media.
Those who still bother to attend CC are proven blind, ignorant or simply believe in fighting a loosing battle against PG, his wife, his Associates Pastors, his group of moronic deacons, his son-in-law, his daughter and ultimately PG's Grand Master - the Satan (Lucifer) himself.
I know many of you will condemn me but I just wish to give this piece of advice to all of you for one last time - Please leave CC, that's the only way you can save it. God bless.
Btw, I don't know if this posting will ever get published. But, if CT really believes in transparency as it has steadfastly advocated, i feel this posting should be published. Let the readers be the judge.
Paul
The Parable of the Good Samaritan tells the story of a man traveling from Jerusalem to Jericho and while on the way he is robbed of everything he had including his clothing, and is beaten to within an inch of his life.
That road was treacherously winding and was a favorite hideout of robbers and thieves.
The next character Jesus introduces into His story is a priest. He spends no time describing the priest and only tells of how he showed no love or compassion for the man by failing to help him and passing on the other side of the road so as not to get involved.
If there would have been anyone who would have known God’s law of love it would have been the priest. By nature of his position he was to be a person of compassion desiring to help others. Unfortunately love was not a word for him that required action on the behalf of someone else.
The next person to pass by in the parable of the Good Samaritan was a Levite, and he does exactly the same thing that the priest did; he passed by without showing any compassion. Again he would have known the law, but he also failed to show the injured man compassion.
The next person to come by was the Samaritan, the one least likely to have shown compassion for the man. Samaritans were considered a low class of people by the Jews since they had intermarried with non-Jews and did not keep all the law.
Therefore, Jews would have nothing to do with them. We do not know if the injured man was a Jew or Gentile, but it made no difference to the Samaritan, he did not consider the man’s race or religion. The “Good Samaritan” saw only a person in dire need of assistance and assist him he did, above and beyond the minimum required.
He would dress the man’s wounds with wine (to disinfect) and oil (to sooth the pain). He put the man on his animal and took him to an inn for a time of healing and paid the innkeeper with his own money. He then went beyond common decency and told the innkeeper to take could care of the man and he would pay for any extra expenses on his return trip. The Samaritan saw his neighbor as anyone who was in need.
Because the good man was a Samaritan Jesus is drawing a strong contrast between those who knew the law and those who actually followed the law in their lifestyle and conduct. Jesus now asks the lawyer if he can apply the lesson to his own life with the question, “So which of these three do you think was neighbor to him who fell among the thieves?" (Luke 10:36). Once again the lawyer’s answer is telling of his personal hardness of heart. He cannot bring himself to say the word Samaritan, he refers to the “good man” as “he who showed mercy.” His hate for the Samaritans (his neighbor) was so strong that he couldn’t even address him in a proper way. Jesus then tells the lawyer to “go and do likewise,” meaning that he should start living what the law tells him to do.
Paul... Paul... I hope you are not the octopus so many people talk about during the WC and now even after WC.
It is true that there will ALWAYS be a group of people who will follow (blindly though) PG. Take for example Hitler. Even until today there are some who say he had done great and he was a great leader! Lol
But Paul, you see, if all the people who love to see TTG happening in CC leave, then PG and his followers would have a gala time conning innocent people. Worst off if these people are young and new christians.
It is very easy to just "peck our buttocks" (direct translation from Cantonese - "park see fatt") and leave CC despite the issues unsettled. In other words, mind our own business. But, is that what we're supposed to do as true followers of Christ? What did Jesus say about when any of our brothers & sisters being hurt etc.? Thank God the TTG brothers & sisters did not think like the majority. It is because of their continued fight and struggle for TTG that all these lies, mismanagements etc. are being exposed. All glory to God. God will not be mocked!
so how much is PG and his family giving from their own money?? Is he also going to take a personal loan and advance to the church?? Looks like its only the church members who are asked to do such sacficial things while PG and family keep their millions for themselves. I think church members who have been warned countless times but still choose to give and ignore the warnings and accuse the TTG group of causing trouble will probably cry out 'Whyyyy???' when they realize they're in debt because of PG and he and his family have run away.
The deacons have all eaten PG's saliva, all under his spell....bewitched, is the word!
2Th 2:9-12 The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.
DELUSION = a persistent false psychotic belief regarding the self or persons or objects outside the self that is maintained despite indisputable evidence to the contrary
Continue to sound the trumpet, watchmen...
Eze 33:1-11 Again the word of the LORD came to me, saying,"Son of man, speak to the children of your people, and say to them: 'When I bring the sword upon a land, and the people of the land take a man from their territory and make him their watchman,when he sees the sword coming upon the land, if he blows the trumpet and warns the people,then whoever hears the sound of the trumpet and does not take warning, if the sword comes and takes him away, his blood shall be on his own head.He heard the sound of the trumpet, but did not take warning; his blood shall be upon himself. But he who takes warning will save his life. But if the watchman sees the sword coming and does not blow the trumpet, and the people are not warned, and the sword comes and takes any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood I will require at the watchman's hand.'"So you, son of man: I have made you a watchman for the house of Israel; therefore you shall hear a word from My mouth and warn them for Me. When I say to the wicked, 'O wicked [man], you shall surely die!' and you do not speak to warn the wicked from his way, that wicked [man] shall die in his iniquity; but his blood I will require at your hand. Nevertheless if you warn the wicked to turn from his way, and he does not turn from his way, he shall die in his iniquity; but you have delivered your soul."Therefore you, O son of man, say to the house of Israel: 'Thus you say, "If our transgressions and our sins [lie] upon us, and we pine away in them, how can we then live?" 'Say to them: '[As] I live,' says the Lord GOD, 'I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live. Turn, turn from your evil ways! For why should you die, O house of Israel?'
TTG & OTHERS: DON'T "PARK SEE FATT"
Sorry - my wife is Chinese but I speak very little Chinese! (Woh bu tai hui ciang chongwen - hope that is right!)
The majority of Christians I know always tell me this "Why can't those people who disagree with the present leadership in Calvary Church - like the TTG "JUST LEAVE AND GO ELSEWHERE!". God is in control and He does not need our help! I DISAGREE WITH THIS COMMENT!
I don't have time to go into 1 John 2:12-14 but here you will find three stages of Christian maturity - Child Stage, Young man Stage & Father Stage. Each of these stages reflect our spiritual maturity. So if you are at Child stage - the first instinct is to 'flee' when the enemy attacks. The youth is better - he is an overcomer but when the fight gets very hot, he may be swayed by the majority - doubt enters and he too flee! Now the Father is different. The Fathers KNOW HIS WAYS!
Psalm 103:7 (NKJB) tells us that God "made known His ways to Moses, His acts to the children of Israel".
1. The Acts of God
The acts of God are what He does in our lives. For many Christians, the entire focus of their lives is what God can do for them. Their faith is motivated totally toward a miracle, provision or particular need. Like the children of Israel, they know only the acts of God. This is Child Stage Spiritual Maturity.
But the Fathers knows the WAYS OF GOD
2. The Ways of God
Moses knew the acts of God too; but his focus was the ways of God. The Lord wants us to press in beyond just the acts He does for us, as good as they may be. We have been given the spirit of God so that we can discover His ways and touch His very heart (1 Corinthians 2:9-16.) That is why Moses stood his ground in spite of many defeats in the beginning. It was only after the 10th plague did Pharaoh release the children of Israel. Even though God promised to deliver Israel, God needed an instrument through whom He could direct His power. We must understand this principle - God has predetermined that He will only act THROUGH THE FAITH AND OBEDIENCE OF HIS CHILDREN. Yes, God can act ALONE but HE WANTS US TO COOPERATE WITH HIM IN HIS ACTIONS.
That is why the Old Testament is the story of men/women of God who KNOW HIS WAYS and acted in faith. That is why God needed HIS SON. Why not just do the miracles through the Holy Spirit without His Son! The Bible says Jesus worked His miracles by the power of the Holy Spirit (The Dove) within Him.
SO DO WE!. We too are sons (and daughters) of God and we have the Holy Spirit and as Fathers - we who KNOW HIS WAYS must stand IN THE GAP as INTERCESSORS and allow the Lord to out work His will. The correct understanding of the word INTERCESSOR is not 'a prayer worrier' - but one who understands God's strategy! (See Rees Howells - Intercessor).
Choose ye this day at which stage of spiritual maturity you are: CHILD, YOUNG MAN OR FATHER, and hold your ground. The VICTORY IS OURS!
THE CHILD AND THE YOUNG MAN MAY "PARK SEE FATT" BUT NOT THE FATHERS! (AND MOTHERS TOO!).
Vijay
CCC=CREDIBILITY & CONFIDENCE CRISIS! Yes, we already have CCC, minus the multi-millions poured in. If this were a project of the corporate sector or even GLCs, those responsible would have been sacked a long time ago. Yet, today they still strut around like peacocks and peahens, taking no responsibility for the fiasco they have led CC into.
And to add insult to injury, they have the audacity to raise further advances from Church members. Why? most banks, as a matter of policy do not lend to churches. Also, does CC have the credit-worthiness to borrow mega-millions now? They boast about the Alliance Bank credit line, but if this bank does its homework properly and knows about the financial situation of CC now, it would have to review its position. So, Church members be bankers to your Church, after they insulted us by bulldozing through the rapidly escalating building budget (from RM50million to 100 to 150million)without a proper resolution. In fact, PG told a senior Church leader that no resolution was required because they were not using church funds to build. He was so super-confident that he could raise the funds from outside. Looks like he does not have that many super-rich buddies outside. So, now he has to eat his own words and crawl back to Church for funds ('advances' is just a face-saving term)
Alliance Bank is not looking at CC's financial situation. They are relying on its collateral. Alliance Bank is acting like a chettiar, lending money based on collateral. Any monkey can do that.
Recently some CalvaryMen visited Bro Paul Lourdes at Calvaryland. Visit their blog at http://calvarymen-events.blogspot.com. They wanted to be a blessing to Bro Paul who had served CC for so many years. One of the men told me the financial numbers of the Calvaryland project. I was shocked to learn that CLand has only 15 residents and maximum capacity is only 24 residents. Development cost alone is around RM7 million without land cost. This is equal to an investment of RM250,000 to look after one resident. Look at other churches social ministries. With RM7 million they could have facilities to look after at least 200 residents. This is an example of PG's extremely bad stewardship of the Lord's money. Gaya mesti ada. The older people do not need such beautiful resort like facilities. Being close to friends and relatives would be more important. The residents have very few visitors because Sungei Pelek is not easy to get to. Monthly running cost with very minimum staff is already RM30,000 or RM2,000 per resident per month. Financially and economically this project does not make sense. PG and the deacons have been financially irresponsible. The same is being displayed with the CCC. The Christian virtues of thrift, frugality, simplicity, transparency and accountability are not in their vocabulary. Always form over substance. The need to impress; not necessarily to be or to do. The beauty of the building and not the beauty of the soul and the spirit.
Only sensible thing to do is to sell Calvaryland and ccc. Time to cut further loss.
I agree with Anonymous(Paul, 15th July, 2:10pm) who called for wisdom to leave CC. However, CT & TTG had every right to continue their fight for accountability & transparency against SP, his pastors & deacons. But where our spiritual lives are concerned and our relationship with God is of utmost important, we need to understand the true situation in CC now. Time is precious and we would not want to waste our time in CC as it should be very clear by now its impossible to have a meaningful worship in the services conducted by these people. We must be realistic and looked at the situation from the perspectives on how God looked at it and what He wants us to do. Some would say leaving CC is running away from responsibilities and are letting these leaders continue to con other members. No, I don't think so, on the other hand I see it as the only way to achieve victory over them, for it is a biblical command that we must be separated and not be yoked with evil doers. For what has Light got to do with darkness. Let them continue in their sins, for sooner or later & surely, more will come to know their spiritual sins & leave them too. Remember when Moses saw the utter shameful sins commited by the Israelites when returning from the mountains, he was so disgusted and angry that he called out to those among the sinful Israelites to come out from their camp and come over to God's side. Ponder upon this "act of God" & see what you can learned from it in regards to the present situation in CC.
At the same time, I also hope with support that God will grant every success to CT, TTG and their supporters, and act against the unrighteous deeds of the CC pastors,deacons & elders.
Mismanagement of fund is a soft & inaccurate word. Abuse of fund is more accurate. Does Calvaryland really cost that much? Corrupt politician approve big project because every project is an opportunity to make corruption money. Could calvaryland was just another opportunity for PG and deacons to put money into their pocket? Why spend so much in a small capacity ministry? Merely for fame? Or also for individual profit? If not, what's wrong with transparency? How can a pastor own several luxury houses in malaysia and US? How can all their children study oversea & have no pressure of financial needs to work? How can they effot to easily travel oversea, enjoy gourmet meal, holiday trip, expensive clothes, etc that even engineers, lawyers and doctors could not effort to enjoy? Where they get the money?
Leave CC or not? It is true that under PG, CC is no longer a worship sanctuary but money collection center for PG. One would not grow spiritually in CC now where the pastors have neglected ministry & interested in only owning the property. Thus, if you think you should leave CC to other churches so that you can grow spiritually, then do so. Think also for the spiritual growth of your children. But pls help to spread the news of this corrupt PG around & continue to ask people to pray for CC. For those who want to stay to confront the evil of PG, pls do so either. CC need you. Today many pastors don't think PG is wrong & they preach to their congregation in that perspective. PG2 today say other pastors who "know" the situation in CC pray for them. Thus, if you stay, you must act also, otherwise your stay somehow indirectly used as support to them rather than confront them. I think CT & leaders of TTG do not do enough, especially in term of awareness. You see, PG has the church stage & channel to other pastors to explain away his sin by not telling lies. Few people have suggest several method to bring greater awareness in this blog. They may even did it but they are not leaders & could not move the crowd. Their act only isolated with few notice. PG want to build CCC main hall so that with a extended stage, he can escape away by telling lies with greater conviction. Many dumb sheep will think PG is right just because he succeed in building the main hall & forgot all his sins & corruption. CT & TTG ought to bring greater awareness now or regret letting PG escape with many deceived. Tell the people - it is not about success or failure; it is about righteous or corrupt. Don't be diverted by PG's deception.
Anonymous at 4:39 PM July 18,
When I said don't just "park see fatt" and leave the CC issues unsettled, I don't mean you could not worship elsewhere. By all means, get your spiritual food somewhere else! You said it very correctly, it is impossible to have a meaningful worship in CC; the "preachings" are always "money money money" or "gimme gimme gimme". Somehow PG and his gang just love Abba so much and not Jesus and His sheep. Do you think they really care about your spiritual being and walk with the Lord?
Worship somewhere else and be fed and nourished by the true Pastors OUTSIDE CC and not by ROGUE pastors. But when it comes to the crunch of the matters e.g. voting, support for TTG, please don't "park see fatt"! Be counted and practise your rights. Every vote counts; every voice counts.
I was at the 8am service in CC today. What surprised me was the way the church is handling the consequence of the dwindling number of worshippers in the sanctuary. Some time ago, they closed the Chinese section (not to mention they do it at the 10:30am service now). Today they barricaded the aisle when the people were made to enter through the front door. And I saw ps TO literally lock the side door to prevent people from coming through that door. Then they opened the side door at about 8:15:am. and took away the barricades. Even then, there were many unoccupied sets. I believe they wanted people to fill up the front part of the sanctuary but they failed miserably.
PG and the leaders of the church is still living in denial, to them the dwindling number is "no big issue". Most churches will be shocked to see the numbers dwindling and focus on increasing the number. In CC, instead of focusing on the issue of the dwindling number, they spend their energy trying to camouflage the problem. Hey, get real!
I was also at the Advance Raising ceremony. Making an educated guess, the number of cards return when PG prayed over them is approximately 400 piece only and these cards have three options. Guess how many cards were dedicated to the advance raising. How low can you get - asking members to advance money that they have kept aside (what happens when it rains), or money that they have access to (bordering on asking members to commit a wrong or breaking a trust), or money that they have that can pay up an existing personal loan (akin to asking members to remain in debt) and to take a loan (you repay the loan with interest while the Church saves interest on a building that has escalated beyond reasonable expectations).
Last week PG took over the pulpit to hard sell his advance raising campaign again. In the morning before the service, this thought did occur to me and it turned out right.
Wow! PG and the leaders are operating a "milking machine" on the members. Give an advance, renew the building pledge and next week, renew the faith promise. All in the month of July!!! Are members cash cows?
I am not a cash cow and it's time to turn off the tap.
Ironically, PG2 shared a meaningful message to the concerned Calvarites. Her message "Holy Determination" or Perseverance is an apt message to the concerned Calvarites persevere in fighting for truth, transparency and Godly governance, do not give up!
I support Paul's suggestion for you the unhappy complainants to leave CC without further delay. If you are fed up with SP and his Deacons, for all their lies and wanking day and night, why would you still want to remain there? A very simple solution to their camaderie and cheating is to leave them with the minimal attendants on Sundays when all of you make an exodus to other churches. There are so many other good churches in KL and PJ. If you cannot do that, then you are a problem yourself by remaining there. Most of you have too strong a soul tie with this church. This church will have no meaning to you anymore if you are frustrated with the SP and his cohorts. If you continue to stay there, you will be completely discouraged very soon, much worst you won't want to be a christian any more than them the liars. Didn't you call them liars?
PG is dinging a deeper hole to save face and ego on member's monies!
On Sunday, PG2 started with a damage control. She said that other Christians "who know the situation in CC, pray for them." Do these other Christians really know what the problems are and the details.
Dear Petrina, there are also many Christians who say that a man-of-God must not act in such a manner. A servant for God is also a servant for man.
PG2 can stand at the pulpit and speak whatever she want to (same applies to PG and the AP's) whether it's the truth, half-truth, misrepresentation or a blatant lie.
Some time ago, I met an old classmate who is also a Christian. When the subject of CC's problems cropped up, he is sceptical about it. Tactfully, I gave him Calvarytoday blog and told him to read about it. Lately I met him at another function. His remark now "How can your pastor act in such a way? Has he lost his calling?"
In conclusion (haha), contrary to what PG2 said about other Christians who sympathize with her,
they are also many others who think differently; many who are sceptical will change their opinion when they get to know the facts. Hence, today, whenever anyone asks me about CC and its problems, I say "It's a long story. Too short a time to go into details. Read about it in Calvarytoday."
I read in the Calvarymen's blog that Calvaryland costs RM7 mil excluding the cost of land and that the running cost is RM2000 per month per inmate. Unbelievable! If the running costs is RM2000 per month per inmate, all the old folks homes, care centres and those providing hospitality services will have gone bankrupt long ago.
Now that Paul is no more at CC DH, who is responsible for the standby generating set installed at CC. I remember when it was first installed Paul was so proud of it that he pulled me to see it. I was told it costs RM250K and by law it needs a competent chargeman to operate it.
Being a layman, this cost shocked me. So I looked around and spoke to people in this field.
Questions like what is the capacity, how much equipment will it carry, how often is it used. I was told that this gen set is also used if there is an power interruption in the administrative bungalow! First the cost is jacked up and to run a RM250K gen set for an hour or two for the bungalow is crazy to me. So, will this RM250k equipment become a white elephant or wall flower?
CC also bought bungalows surrounding the church at premium price. Since the time when the bungalows were put on the market for sale, how many were sold to-date?
CC has a reputation of being extravagant in everything they do and spend countless millions in failed projects.
Why? Because the money does not come from their pockets. It's the Calvarites' money. Over the years,I have met other Christians and when they know that I am from Calvary, many of them made this remark without hesitation "Calvary Church is a rich church. Always asking for money." First phrase, no more true; second phrase, true. Probably someone will now say "Calvary Church is no more a rich church. And now begging for money."
Don't fall into Satan's trap !!! Didn't Jesus ask you to turn the other cheek? Sell everything? You guys better pray hard and ask for forgiveness !
Spiritual Nourishment.
We all need to hear and be nourished by the Word of God. However, the type of food the Lord provides is dependent at which stage of spiritual maturity we are. The Child needs 'Milk', the Youth - 'semi-solid' and the Father - 'Meat'.
So it is rightful that the Child and the Youth or Fathers with Child and Youth take them to a church were they can be feed by the Word of God. Otherwise, as rightly pointed by some of the Bloggers, - they will eventually be under-nourished. A ROGUE LEADER CANNOT FEED REAL FOOD! In fact they may twist scriptures so much it will become difficult to know TRUTH unless there is spiritual discernment.
The call to stay are for the "Fathers". These are the matured ones who like the church planters, church pioneers and the missionaries are not dependent on another for spiritual food. These are those who have learned to abide in the Holy Spirit and draw from the Living Waters, the Bible, Christian literatures, tapes, the Internet, occasional visit to other churches etc.
(Read the biographies of the missionaries and you will find the 'Fathers' who went to the Heart of Africa, India, China, South America, etc and planted churches. They did not have another church to feed them, they were far from Christians and alone, surrounded by unbelievers! Yet, they were feed directly by the Holy Spirit).
Hence, the Child and the Young Man need spiritual nourishment and rightfully should be feed by other churches etc. until the Lord accomplish His purposes for Calvary.
Do not let the Rogue Leaders of Calvary Church convince you that because other Christians are praying for them, they are the True Leaders of Calvary Church. My observation is most Christian Leaders have no clue what is happening in Calvary Church.
Furthermore, even if they know there is leadership problems in Calvary Church, they won't openly comment because they hold on to the misguided truth that Christians should not judge. (Yet, they forget that one day we will judge angles!).
We should not be critical of them because again it all depends in which stage of spiritual maturity they are. It is the Fathers who rightly discern the true events within Calvary and brave enough to judge. We can only pray that the Holy Spirit will open the eyes of those who lack discernment so that they are able to know the Truth.
It is very comforting to witness spiritual maturity in many of the Bloggers in Calvary Today.
Surely, the Lord has raised a new army of Christian worriers who are no longer double minded and swayed by every wind of doctrine - but who have matured like the Bereans to KNOW TRUTH. PTL!
Vijay
CT said "PG even puts additional words in the Good Samaritan’s mouth. He quoted the Good Samaritan as telling the inn-keeper “I can’t give this to you now but you give first” and proceeded to ask the members to give first!"
I reread the parable. I am shocked at the spin and twist of Scriptures that PG is capable of.
Luke 10:35, "The next day he (the good Samaritan) took out two silver coins and gave them to the innkeeper. 'Look after him',he said, 'and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.'"
The request was not for the innkeeper to pay first.
How LOW can a man stoop just to get his own way?
How unnerving is his lack of the fear of God in his heart to mis-use scripture just to to get his hands on the members' money?
How hypocrital is PG's abuse of his spiritual authority just to manipulate the members to give away their life savings to him?
How STUPID are the CC members who are STILL trusting PG and giving to him, thinking that they are giving to God?
No wonder there was this dream of lightning striking the stage....!!!
Basically, the problem of the CC leadership derived from the sin of "GREED". With the large amount of money pouring in from 'offerings' and in their control & power "GREED" begins to come to their hearts like with allocating themselves with "fat salaries' and self served themselves with various perks & benefits for their comfort living.
" the heart is deceitful above all things & desperately corrupt; who can understand it?" (Jeremiah 17:9)
What is wrong with CC pastors are their own blindness to the moral conditions of their hearts, which they needed deliverance and healing.
Since both PGs are illegal pastors ever since 2004 and 2006, how to Pray and get blessings from the LORD GOD ? Trespassers running CC now ? We truly need a miracle from God to get rid of the PGs before the CC & CCC saga can resolved!
In late 2009, PG once announced that he "FELT more at ease" with the AMPANG CONGREGATION ? Now I know WHY ? Many diplomats,foreign dignatories, foreign students and Ampang residents were actually ignorance of his "Dark secrets" ! I prayed & hoped that these groups of worshippers have indeed awaken to his PGs misguided human secular negative Vision ?
Psalms 127
"1. Unless the Lord builds the house,
those who build it labour in vain.
Unless the Lord watches over the city,
the watchmen stays awake in vain.
2. It is in vain that you rise up early and go late to rest,
eating the bread of anxious toil;
for He gives His beloved sleep."
It is in vain that PG and deacons labour and toil to push the CCC project forward. They are trying by all worldly, fleshly ways and means to raise monies. They don't realise that when it is not God's will and plan to have it built no matter how hard they try and with every means to persuade and coax the members to give, it won't work out.
The longer the CCC project drags on the greater the financial crisis will become. It is already very huge and it is going to be overwhelming!
Deacons you are in for real tragedy and financial disaster...if you don't come to your senses soon enough you are sinking and will be submerged in deep, deep trouble. What a shame to be involved in such a disastrous project. Why put your heads in the sand? You have a mind and can seek proper advice rather than just submit to one man who already is no longer a shepherd for the flock, who just wants to protect his own image and reputation.
We pray that deacons will come to their senses especially the new ones who went in with their eyes and ears open. They should know what their mission and purpose in CC is when they got into the Board.
There was an earlier post on checking PG information in US public databases.
I actually have an account to do such a search but not sure if we can confirm that the addresses are his properties or just places he stayed before.
Just let me know if you think it could help.
BTW, anyone who's lived in US will be on those databases.
I also got information on PG & children;s properties in US. I given the info to CT. Anyone with info should just send to CT. They have not disclose my name to anyone and I believe they will use it wisely.
Anyone got anything should just send in to them.
August 2, 2010 11:01 AM
I would like to exchange links with your site calvarytoday2.blogspot.com Is this possible?
August 12, 2010 12:52 AM
Reply to Anonymous on August 12, 2010 12:52 AM. We noticed that this is the 2nd time you have placed this Comment here so we have decided to release your note to us today after much deliberation.
This blog was started to cater to our church members (who resides both locally and overseas) interests and concerns. We have so far published articles that are related to issues faced by our church members. We also have endeavored to put out announcements that we feel should be participated by all Christians.
However, by God's grace, our readership have expanded to people far and wide although this was not our original intention.
To remain true to our initial motivation as much as possible, we wish to remain independent and we will continue to publish articles that are related to our cause.
We thank you once again for Comment to us.
To God be the Glory for the Great Things He has done! (This is the reply we gave to someone with a similar request in Berita Calvary)
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