Senior Pastor Prince Guneratnam (PG) must be going through dreaded times.
The road to fulfilling his vision of building a mammoth monument (Calvary Convention Centre or CCC) to glorify God has certainly not been easy.
Although one may argue that it is never easy when one does the will of God, the same also holds true when man’s vision gets clouded with God’s vision and man believes his vision is God’s vision.
However one looks at it, the road that PG has taken surely looks like one that will lead Calvary Church into many years of financial bondage, beginning with this latest drawdown of the Bank Loan.
Does God need to borrow money from man’s banks to fulfill His vision?
Our Bible declares that God is the Creator of the heavens and the earth and He owns the “cattle on a thousand hills” (Psalm 50:10). Our God is a mighty rich God and He has no problems fulfilling His vision.
Alas, for PG, he has to resort to Bank borrowings to fulfill his vision. The money is just not coming in as he had hoped for, as members become numbed to his incessant barrage of “give, give, give” from the pulpit and the constant insinuation that God will not bless if they do not give. This “spiritual threat”, is of course, unbiblical. God blesses because he is a good God, not on the basis of our giving as we cannot “earn” His blessings.
Hence, PG has no choice but to draw down on the Loans granted by Alliance Bank and Public Bank.
Last Sunday, the Church announced that they have drawn down RM14 million to pay the Contractors and the Interest Payable on the Loan Amount drawn down comes up to RM70,000 a month.
What does the future hold for Calvary Church from now on?
When the total loans of RM43 million from both Banks are fully drawn down, the Interest will amount to RM215,000 per month or RM2.58 million per year.
This does not even take into account the Principal payment. If the RM43 million loans are to be repaid over, 10 years, it will come up to another RM358,000 per month or RM4.3 million per year.
The combined interest and principal payment will eventually be a whopping RM573,000 per month or RM6.88 million per year for 10 years!
This is just mind-blowing and poses a huge question mark over the Church’s ability to repay the Banks and the future fate of Calvary Church, considering that the income surplus for 2010 was only RM6.1 million. The cost of maintaining the CCC is not even taken into account.
Will the construction of CCC be completed with the full drawdown of the Loan sum of RM43 million?
The answer is NO. Even with full loan drawdown, the Church is still short of RM75 million to complete Phase 1 of CCC. The Exsim land deal is supposed to generate a cash inflow of RM55 million to the Church but this is spread out over at least 4 years.
Therefore, in the interim, PG will have to raise between another RM55 to RM65 million, assuming Exsim will pay between RM10-20 million upfront on the deal.
PG certainly needs a giant panadol!
Footnote: CT has amended the loan repayment figures in the above article, following verification that the loan period is only 10 years. The original article had assumed a loan period of 15 years.
171 comments:
Reposted here as it addresses the same issue.
March 18, 2012 9:02 PM
The crunch is here now at CC. Today, SK announced that the church had draw RM14 mil under the loan facility and the interest is RM70k a month. His hair will drop faster now and the others in the finance committee will see more white hairs.
The Faith promise for March stands at RM194,538. The collection for Week 2 is only RM64,400.
The impact of TOTT is clearly seen. Keep the TOTT momentum going.
Reposted here as it addresses the same issue.
March 19, 2012 12:06 AM
If you need to promote a product or services, speak to SK. He can do a good job.
Look at how he paints a rosy picture of CCC. A week ago he was glorifying the progress of CCC and said that CC has not draw on the loan. On the notice board, pictures of CCC are displayed. Give a "feel good" feeling, build up the excitement and anticipation. Then today came the crux! RM14 mil has been drawn and interest is RM70k a month. So give, give and give - the church needs the money. Same old story, repeated and repeated again and again, maybe in different style.
Let TOTT reign!
Reposted here as it addresses the same issue.
March 19, 2012 4:03 PM
We know that many Pastors read this blog secretly.SP and his lying crew should just step down and move on instead of keeping up the church CIRCUS & comedy.Because it is not amusing anymore.How did they ever convert into a bunch of pathetic liars- and that too using a pulpit and our Saviours Name? Whatever happened??
First the statement that they don't need to borrow anything and now we have to pay interest of 70K a month? Where is he $$ coming from??
SP & and his group of salespeople(special compliments to RY with his AOG BULLSHIT about sacrificial giving)should go for counselling. Maybe even psychiatric counselling is necessary at this point of time.
And to all the AOG wolves who have chosen to maintain silence throughtout this sordid episode- thanks to you all. Now you have lost your voice in the Christian community and if there arises any other issue in Christendom- you cannot break that silence in the future but have to maintain it for the rest of your pathetic pastoral careers.
Finally though I am grieved at the birth of this blog,because it is a public forum and believers and non- believers alike can visit here.But the AOG Reverends as a collective group have to take the blame because in the last analysis- you are supposed to care for the flock and nourish it.Instead you have wounded the flock and scaterred it.
NO NEED TO BORROW ANY MONEY EH?? WHAT A BUNCH OF BLATANT LIARS~!~!
Reposted here as it addresses the same issue.
March 22, 2012 4:10 AM
Once in a while someone will come and post a blog to criticize/reprimand some bloggers who exposed what is wrong in CC.
Looking at the way this recent someone wrote his/her blog I wonder who is the one who is really angry, have no class and need to exercise intelligence.
Sometime back there was another someone (also hiding behind Anonymous) who wrote to accuse me of writing without fear of God and not checking my facts. For the records when I touched on Nam Fatt and Exsim, I spoke with the relevant officers to check the facts.
I am sure the bloggers here write becos of their love for CC. They don’t want to see 50 years of what God has blessed CC with be destroyed.
Take Easter presentation for example. For years, CC has impacted the Christian and non-Christian community of KL, PJ and the surrounding areas with its three nightly Easter Presentation be it at Putra Stadium, MCA hall, DH or other public halls/stadia. Christians from other churches also supported us. Thousands and thousands were touched and saved.
But what happened? For 2012, there is only one Easter presentation at DH.
Financially, it is frightening to say the least . For RM14million CC is paying a monthly interest of RM70,000.00. And we are looking at a more than RM200million or RM250million CCC. Can you fathom how much more bank borrowings is needed?!! Just ponder how much interest CC will need to pay then.
I wonder how much longer is SP, the APs and the BOD going to keep the poor sheep of CC feeling good with comments like the following…
1) WoW, worshipping under the Rainbow(glass) of the Covered Plaza as said by PO in cheras on 11/03/2012sun. Dear pastor PO do you have any idea of the difficulties and costs of maintaining glass building or the glass structures of multi-storey buildings?
2) CC as the fountainhead church as reminded by RY in cheras on 18/03/2012sun.( read: as CC is the fountainhead church in this region, CCC has to be completed). Please pastor RY, Jesus asked every believer to fulfill the Great Commission. Don’t you think every church should be a ‘fountainhead church’ in the area it is placed and needs to be a fountain of Living Water to the people in that community?
3) ‘WoW…progress at CCC amazing. Structurally completion date of September now brought forward to august. WoW!!’ as quoted by SP in cheras last Sunday.
4) ‘Be thankful there are banks willing to loan..CC taken RM14million and paying interest of RM70,000.00 a month. I am sharing this with you becos want you to be partners and GOD WANTS TO BLESS YOU’..(read: don’t worry, loan available but wise sheep and readers of this blog please remember all further application for additional loans were rejected by ALL THE BANKS)
5) SP continued to make the cheras sheep feel good and I quote… ‘when get CF need enough $$$(smiling)…I am talking/chatting with you…we need the $$$...i am NOT ASKING YOU TO GIVE THE $$$... I AM ASKING GOD TO BLESS SO YOU CAN GIVE…’ Unquote. Can you see the psychology of this soft approach?
6) Then came the warning!... ‘IF GOD BLESS YOU,YOU BETTER GIVE!!!’
7) ‘IF YOU DON’T HAVE GIVE FIRST AND SEE GOD DO A MIRACLE’. He then further reminded the cheras sheep to fulfill the various pledges they had made.
Until today SP, the APs and the BOD has not revealed the collection to-date of the other pledges and the amount raised from the various activities like the Jerusalem trip.
Anyway, is the CCC project manager paid any allowance and if so how much?
Btw as recent as the March issue of Calvary News it was so proudly printed until the end of 2011 CC did not need to borrow any $$$ from the banks. PO had on so many occasions told the cheras sheep this too. And now the bombshell RM14,000,000.00!!!
When I discuss this with some other cheras sheep, it saddens me that so many of them so naïve as if it’s no big matter.
BE WISE AND GOD BLESS
ANOTHER SMALL FRY
Reposted here as it addresses the same issue.
March 22, 2012 9:07 AM
"IF YOU DON'T HAVE GIVE FIRST AND SEE GOD DO A MIRACLE" Are those just empty words or does he really have faith and believe his own words.Why don't he walk the talk and downsize his car to a kancil and his house to a small apartment and give all the money raised and see what God can do. Such talk is unbiblical and totally irresponsible . There are even pastors that ask people to borrow from the banks and then lend the money loan free to the building funds. Such irresponsible desperate leaders show no concern on how families are coping financially and in other aspects. Even God tells us to be responsible and provide for our families otherwise we are regarded as worst than the heathen.
CCC must have been dreamt up through this presumptious "faith" . Have faith, don't worry, just start to build your grandious expensive building and money will just come by 'faith'. If so, then why do you need to coax, pressure and use OT threats on members to raise funds.
The people of God are generous people.If the giving is unto something that glorifies God and not puff up egos to win the applause of man, members will give generously and sacrificially without the need of pressure and OT threats.
Reposted here as it addresses the same issue.
March 22, 2012 4:21 PM
Btw as recent as the March issue of Calvary News it was so proudly printed until the end of 2011 CC did not need to borrow any $$$ from the banks. PO had on so many occasions told the cheras sheep this too. And now the bombshell RM14,000,000.00!!!
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HA...HA....HAHAHAHA...HOHOHO.....HEHEHE......OH MY TUMMY CRAMPING....
It would be a shameful thing if CCC ends up in a few years the way the Crystal Cathedral has ... sold due to bankruptcy. But worse part is that it will not be the Roman Catholic church buying CCC to make it a RC centre as it will only be a shell.
The only religious group in Malaysia with that kind of money (to buy a half completed CCC at a fraction of the cost) would be a Muslim organization. Perhaps JAIS or a similar organization will buy CCC and convert it into an Islamic centre of education with a huge mosque. Buying CCC may not be the best financial purchase but it would be a significant "religious moral victory" :-(
This is not funny. It is a very real scenario.
Then came the warning!... ‘IF GOD BLESS YOU,YOU BETTER GIVE!!!’ . Thanks for this info.
Anyone care to replay back his own words to him and his wife PG2?
God has bless them so tremendously, At over 60 years old still drawing more than RM30,ooo-oo each a month. If both of them would give up their salary and serve God for free, the savings from their salaries would be enough to pay the bank interest.
If his son were to take a pay cut, then the congregation won't even need to give one cent to pay the monthly interest of RM70k.
If PG & PG2 would sell their multi-million $$$ house, it can pay for loan amount. Why would 2 old people need to live in such a big house? Go move in with his son and PG2 can play with grandchildren everyday. No need to take up office time to play with grandchildren.
It is so easy for these pastors to ask people to give and live by faith but they themselves cannot even sacrifice and live by faith themselves.
PG2 have been spotted visiting expensive hospital to get medical care. Why can't she go to GH or UH? Save the church from having to pay expensive medical bills incurred by her.
WISE UP FELLOW BROTHERS AND SISTERS.
SAVE YOUR MONEY FOR YOUR OWN RAINY DAY.
Take your parents to see specialist at specialist centres. Give your parents a holiday overseas. That's your duty.
Do not give your money so that Calvary pastors can go visit expensive specialist and fly business class overseas.
TOTT to Calvary Church and open your tap big big to bless your parents, spouse and children. If you have more still overflowing, include your poor relatives and friends.
Posted by WISE UP #101 to Calvary Today 2 at March 23, 2012 11:52 AM
...." This is not funny. It is a very real senario."
No, it's not funny. But God is not concerned about man made buildings ( call church),and who takes over or buys it. Like the Crystal Cathedral, many expensive building projects just represent man's ego and a desire for the world's applause. Many beautiful church buildings in the world today are now nothing but just tourists attraction.
But God only treasures the true CHURCH which is His people. What God wants is a beautiful strong CHURCH which is the people of God. Some have the notion that the building is the 'church' and so put up grandiose extravagant buildings with little concern for the long term financial implications and then pressure members to give. God is only pleased and glorified in a strong faithful CHURCH doing his work and will. God feels the pain only when the true CHURCH is sold to the world, not when a building is sold to someone else even of a different faith. And if selling the building is the best way out of the financial delima, then it's wisdom to sell it. Like the Crystal Cathedral it would be a humbling lesson that causes us to refocus on the true calling of the CHURCH and lead us to invest more in the people, the CHURCH.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at March 23, 2012 1:42 PM
"It would be a shameful thing if CCC ends up in a few years the way the Crystal Cathedral has ... sold due to bankruptcy."
The above PROPHECY will be Fulfilled in due times !
The WARRANT of ARREST for ALLEGED CBT has not been served yet ! Passports still not impounded yet! Option to leave Malaysia and retire quitely in USA & elsewhere is still OPENED by Grace !
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at March 23, 2012 2:18 PM
THE MOST MISQUOTED BIBLE VERSE BY PASTORS TODAY
ISAIAH 54
2: Enlarge the place of thy tent,and let them stretch forth the curtains of thine habitations:spare not,lengthen thy cords,and strengthen thy stakes;For thou shalt break forth on the right hand and on the left;and thy seed shall inherit the Gentiles,and make the desolate cities to be inhabited.
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Pastors with enormous ambitions will sooner or later start quoting the above verses,which allegedly "jumped out at me" testimony to justify their costly church building programmes.And since generally,Christians like to go to a prestigious looking church with red carpets,they assume Gods favour is there-and become victims to the usual hype from the church pulpits.[the main theme is $$$]
Today there are still many church buildings being put up here in Malaysia- especially Kuala Lumpur.Lets observe and learn a lesson from Church history.I have visited many church buildings in Europe and England- and today it has becomes store houses for furnitures and horse stables.Even occult books are sold there.Whatever happened? One theory suggested that with the church becoming rich- moral decay set in.
Today in the US- there are many Women Priests ordained into the church system.There are also gays and homesexuals who function as ministers of the Word.The Church has lost its witness because these are considered as Human Rights issues today and the Constitution protects the liberty & privacy of the person.
Even Royalties who were considered as Guardians of the Faith fell into disrepute.One of the Princes in England has a history of puffing at Marijuana and known for fist fights in pubs.
On the local scene-the political landscape is changing.And so is the spiritual landscape too.Only last week I stepped into a big church.Just so crowded.But when the preaching began,from my angle-barely 10 minutes into the service,many youths were already on their I-pods--some kind of games. Still others were SMS messages- including adults.
I urge All pastors to go away for some retreat and fellowship with one another and pray together.It is my belief that Pastoring is not just about standing out to speak on a Sunday and kicking out Christians who disagree with you in church.Find out what "a calling" means.
1 PETER 5
Be shepherds of God’s flock that is under your care,watching over them—not because you must, but because you are willing, as God wants you to be;not pursuing dishonest gain,but eager to serve;
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at March 23, 2012 3:58 PM
Commenting on WISE UP #101 statement, "God had blessed them so tremendously, At over 60 years old, still drawing more than RM30,000/= each a month." Sir, thats not blessing, thats unjustly benefiting from the contributions & offerings given by members to the church for the work of God.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at March 23, 2012 4:42 PM
I urge All pastors to go away for some retreat and fellowship with one another and pray together.It is my belief that Pastoring is not just about standing out to speak on a Sunday and kicking out Christians who disagree with you in church.Find out what "a calling" means.
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I was quite amused to discover many years ago that some AOG Pastors don't even talk to each other-much less fellowship!!!!I suspect some even have contempt for pastors with a small congregation.In the movie Die Hard 2- the evil man quotes to a police officer over the phone " Birds of a feather flock together,so do pigs and swine..."
I guess it will be a difficult thing for this to happen.Some years ago my pastor complained after an AOG fellowship-"All the CC Pastors only sat at the dinner table by themselves behaving as though they are a class by themselves!!"
I guess even though they are pastors, they still have to cope with their different personalites and temperament.Anyway what matters is that they still faithfully preach the Word of God every week.And thats a most wonderful thing!! Gld Bless All this week.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at March 24, 2012 1:48 PM
Yeah, the wealth that PG and family have, do not come from God, but from his god - the Mammon, by cheating and all kind of crafty scheme. May God judge them for all these wicked acts against God's people.
How can anyone called themselves Christian and yet do all these corruption? Worst still, in CC, they are pastors. What a deterioration of moral among AOG churches.
The superintendent of AOG should step down too.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at March 24, 2012 2:04 PM
A question to you all CC pastors.
DOES GOD WHO IS ALL POWERFUL, ALL RESOURCEFUL, THE CREATOR OF HEAVEN & EARTH NEEDS TO BEG OR BORROW MONEY TO BUILD HIS VISION? By your act of borrowing money from the bank, it is proof enough beyond all doubt that CCC NEVER was a vision of God. Never did He called to build this 'convention centre'. It was a dream and ego of men, SP and his pastors.
They are now desperate & heartless and resorting to pressuring & even threatening by misusing the Word of God and putting fear upon members that God requires them to give. To those who still believe these 'pastors', please wake up to your senses, that these leaders are lying, they do not care for your welfare, for all they want is your money to help them save this CCC project. Understand this, God is not in the business of putting up luxury mega churches to impress. He is only interested in building lives & saving souls.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at March 24, 2012 2:40 PM
…it takes guts and a lot of humility to admit and apologise. Many of us including pastors and leaders can learn from you. But keep speaking up. Don't let one slip discourage you from standing up for the truth…
Thanks brother for your encouragement and support for bloggers. One thing that has emerged from this blog is that we bloggers may or may not know not know each other but we can definitely feel the deep support and rapport for each other.
And when someone tries to ‘sabotage’ or throw doubts on what is exposed, I observe almost without fail other bloggers will respond to that someone. Perhaps this is one reason why there are so few ‘someone’s here.
Thanks too for gentle reminders that make us better bloggers! I had personally experienced this.
YES, IT TAKES A LOT OF HUMILITY TO ADMIT AND APOLOGISE INCLUDING THE TOP LEADERS AND THE BOD OF CC.
One step that can be and must be taken for the CC CRISIS TO HEAL IS TOP LEADERS INCLUDING THE PASTORS AND BOD TO TAKE THE FOLLOWING STEPS:
1. ADMIT THE WRONG IN REMOVAL OF DR. LUM AND THE SACKING OF THE 400
2. RE-INSTATE THEM. WHETHER THEY WILL ACCEPT OR NOT ACCEPT THE REINSTATEMENT IS NOT THE ISSUE HERE
3. RE-INSTATE LG IF THERE ARE ANY WRONGFULLY STOPPED
4. APOLOGISE TO ALL WHO HAD BEEN HURT LIKE REMOVED FROM AGM FROM SPEAKING UP
5. PROPER AND TRANSPARENT ACCOUNTS OF THE CHURCH FINANCES INCLUDING ALL INCOME (TITHES, OFFERINGS, VAROIUS FUND-RAISING ACTIVITIES, DONATIONS ETC) AND ALL EXPENSES (SALARIES/STIPEND/WHATEVER YOU CALL IT OF ALL IN CC INCLUDING SP, CCC PROJECT MANAGER{if have}, ALL APs AND ALL WORKERS
6. THESE ACCOUNTS MUST BE AVAILABLE TO ALL CC MEMBERS AND ASSOCIATE MEMBERS
7. ALL MATTERS RELATED TO CCC MUST BE TRANSPARENT AND MADE AVAILABLE TO ALL CC MEMBERS AND ASSOCIATE MEMBERS including the following aspects
7.1 Update on the deal with Exsim-how much has Exsim paid etc
7.2 Update on loan available, is it still RM43million?
7.3 Fate of the CC bungalows in DH. Were any used as collateral for loan?
7.4 RM14,000,000.00 with monthly interest of RM70,000.00 works out to an interest of 6% per annum. IS THIS THE BEST RATE? I hope some banker or some bloggers can enlighten us on this. If I am not mistaken THE BIGGER THE LOAN AMOUNT THE BETTER THE RATE UNLESS THE LENDER SENSES GREATER RISK
7.5 Update on the actual financial situation of CCC, total $$$ paid so far, total $$$ owing and total estimated for completion
7.6 As to completion, details please NOT A NICE PICTURE OF EXTERNAL VIEW! TO MAKE CC SHEEP FEEL WOW AND GOOD.
7.7 THE ESTIMATED FINAL TOTAL COST OF CCC
7.8 THE ESTIMATED MAINTENANCE COST OF CCC
LAST BUT NOT LEAST PLEASE SHOW TO US HOW THE TOP LEADERS AND BOD WALK THE TALK AND SACRIFICE FOR CCC. WE HAD MORE THAN ENOUGH DOSAGE/TALK OF ‘GOD WILL BLESS YOU WHEN YOU GIVE’
As many bloggers had written, please show us by your example. And by example, I don’t mean coming to cheras by Myvi or Proton Saga to show the cheras sheep but still drawing big salaries/stipend.(Oh yes go by CRV, nice SUV and bigger cars to other CC activities)
MAY GOD CONTINUE TO BLESS THIS BLOG AND HIS CHURCH/BODY OF BELIEVERS
ANOTHER SMALL FRY
Posted by ANOTHER SMALL FRY to Calvary Today 2 at March 24, 2012 3:01 PM
My family was in church together.The worship and the message really refreshed us. And so was the fellowship.God Bless you all.Let us grow together.Bye and have a Blessed Week.We read this blog as a family and learnt many things.God bless again.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at March 25, 2012 1:49 PM
jamsborn
If it's trying to distinguish between what is of God and Lucifer, the Word of God will throw the light to dispel darkness quickly. Lucifer will certainly use and twist God's very own words to camouflage his lies to make it look 99% truth. Lucifer had tried several times to twist the truth to tempt and deceive Jesus but failed because Jesus will fall back to the untainted Word of God. Eg cunning Lucifer might say that God wants us to live good moral lives and that is certainly correct. But then he adds that since all religions also follow this desire of God, therefore all religions must lead to God. Very logical but not so says the Word of God in John 14:6. Another example, someone might have fallen in love with another woman, and Satan whispers to him that it is allowed in the OT for one to divorce his wife and marry another but he hides the verses that says God hates divorce and that marriage is sacred in God's eyes.
There might be little grey areas but in the main critical and essential areas of orthodox christian doctrines and life, the Bible is a very clear and sufficient guide 2Tim 3:16-17
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at March 25, 2012 4:13 PM
To Anony March 25, 1:49pm. I don't see how you & family or any true believers can be refreshed of gain spiritually from messages that came from CC pastors. I simply cannot or be in any worship services that are led by them because I know who they are, false ministers. Bloggers here have exposed their unrighteous deeds and we know they don't lived by what they preached, and from their "bad fruits" they are provened to be false prophets. Do you know that by their "bad fruits", they have deny the Lord and the Bible tells us to avoid & reject such people. So how can anyone who truly follow Christ, grow spiritually from worship services led by them, for messages that you hear will never, never be unlifting to your hearts.
We are living today where the Bible warned us there will be a rise in false prophets and the danger is that they come from inside churches where most believers do not expect and failed to notice because the ministers of satan come as "angelS of light" but are in fact "wolves in sheeps clothings". KNOW THEM BY THEIR FRUITS, THE LORD WARNED.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at March 25, 2012 10:58 PM
Some pastors preach tithing like it's a matter of fact a biblical command on christians, and not to tithe is an outright act of disobedience and an outright sin. What amazes me is that these very pastors will be very lost if challenged to provide clear biblical injunction of this command in the New Testament but yet will continue insisting it's a clearcut injunction from God. Have they no feeling of guilt or shame that they can boldly proclaim this without blinking an eye when there is no evidence of such injunction in NT? This emphasis on unbiblical injunction for christians to tithe is especially so in AOG and charismatic circles. Do they not realise or care that they put financial stress on many households and make those who cannot afford to tithe feel guilty and inadequate. Not only are they insensitive or show little concern for these sheep, they even become irresponsible and challenge them to give in "faith" even when they cannot afford to and tell them to see what miracle God can do for them.
But thanks be to God that there are many pastors and Bible teachers now rising up to expose this deceitful teaching. One of them is, of course, the notable pastor and bible teacher, David Pawson.
To quote him in one of his sermons: " I cannot even tell Christians to tithe because it's an old covenant law and belongs to Moses and never mentioned in the New Testament when speaking to gentile believers. Jews did it but no gentile is told to tithe but we are told to give."
In the New Testament, christians are exhorted to be a cheerful giver and to be generous in their giving.But there is no tithe or percentages or any fixed amount to give. To the prosperous, generous could well mean giving more than 10% maybe 30% maybe more. To others generous could be just 3% or 5% To others still even 1% might be unaffordable and they might instead be recipient of help from the church. The point is that there is no injunction of tithing or minimum or maximum percentages in what we give.
We give not out of compulsion. We give not because it is mandatory or an injunction. We give because we want to and our giving is not in the hope of multifold returns back unto ourselves but driven only by our love and gratefulness to our Saviour and in the hope the money will be used prayerfully in WAYS that will glorify Him and fulfil His will. And the harvest and multifold returns to us will be the joy we share with the angels in Heaven when we see numerous souls saved through mission support with the money, of disciples and workers trained for the harvest fields, of the hungry fed, of orphans and widows cared for, of destitute financially helped etc and etc.
Brethen, don't let them deceive or put fear in you anymore.Always check the Word of God for yourselves. And give generously when the money is earmarked for purposes that glories God.
If you are interested , check on You Tube
1) Biblical Covenants by David Pawson, Part 8 of 15
2) Circumcision, Tithing and Dung, David Pawson.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at March 26, 2012 12:10 PM
Dear CT, i've left Calvary in 2009, but grew up for 20+ years- but i still frequent this blog.please continue feeding us with updates.
we are grateful for this blog.
Posted by LeftIn2009 to Calvary Today 2 at March 26, 2012 2:09 PM
To Anony March 25, 1:49pm. I don't see how you & family or any true believers can be refreshed of gain spiritually from messages that came from CC pastors
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I DID NOT STATE THAT ME & FAMILY WERE WORSHIPPING AT CC.HAVE A BLESSED WEEK & LETS CONTINUE TO EXHORT ONE ANOTHER AS WE JOURNEY ON THROUGHOUT THIS YEAR.[TO BE FRANK CC LEADERSHIP HAVE BECOME AN EYESORE TO US- CHEERIO]
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at March 26, 2012 3:55 PM
...."Enlarge the place of thy tent...."
WOF prosperity theology has got into the heads and hearts of many pastors. They dream of being pastors( or rather CEOs) of Mega churches and being rich because their theology tells them that God wants them to prosper and be rich. If you are a pastor serving faithfully as a servant of God in a small church and drives only a Kancil, you are regarded as not blessed and it's probably because you have a small faith. That's the type of 'gospel' they are teaching in the church today. I rather send my money to pastors who soldier on for Christ even on a small salary than one getting RM 30,000 a month.
Posted to CT2 on March 23, 2012 6:30 PM
Posted by jamsborn to the earlier post at March 24, 2012 10:58 PM. Due to an error made by us, some readers have addresses his question here so we are reposting here. This should have been published earlier
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sometimes, just not easy to distinguish between what is of God and of lucifer. the enemies offer 99% truth, would you take it? jesus offers 100% truth, not much different, right ?
if you are rich, be sure you neighbors are not poor....and you do not have vision and senses problem but having a heart like jesus
Hello there Brethren- this is the last week of March before April 2012 is ushered in.To all working Christians out there,may you find favour with your employers.Remember-don't give away your hard earned money if anyone makes you guilty.It is a Scriptural truth that tithing is never mentioned in the NT. But Christians are exhorted to give whatever- "laying something aside as God prospers him." There is no pressure from God or the Scriptures. The Pressure comes from the prince of the power of the air who gets hold of some pastors to do his work.
The deception that these AOG pastors have caused among the believers is just so colossal.Shameful indeed.The way the sheep have been led into this deception over the years just proves that this so called pastors have no heart.They are indeed the hirelings.
When a person is ministered - they will give- no need for the pressure.The number of different kind of offerings at CC --speaks of a con artist on the loose.In the US they call this - BALONEY!!!
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at March 26, 2012 6:11 PM
To Anony March 26, 3.55pm. My apologies to you & family for my mistake. I should have read more clearly. May the good Lord bless you all in His Spirit & in His Truth. I have been an ex-calvarite for about 6 yrs and I am so very, very glad that I left the church.
May we all grow in the knowledge of the Lord & His rightseousness. Peace be with you.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at March 26, 2012 9:34 PM
A friend from Singapore once told me about a pastor who was very persuasive in getting his members to give to the church building project. Alot of money was needed and he encouraged members to sell their assets and give the money to finance the church project. A widow was easily persuaded and sold her apartment and gave all the money to the pastor. And now financially short of funds, she decides to move in to live with her son. The son was shocked and angry at what happened and took her to the pastor's house. The son bluntly told the pastor to house and care for his mother as it was the pastor who persuaded the members to give sacrificially even when they are financially not abe to. See how irresponsible some pastors are. They will preach warnings from Book of Malachi and just say anything to make people give without any real concern for the financial situation in each household.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at March 27, 2012 10:50 AM
Hey, that's a good principle - anyone who gives and finds himself/herself later in financial need should approach the church for assistance. Morally and biblically, the church should extend whatever help that is necessary - otherwise the church would have failed the commandment of love.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at March 27, 2012 2:17 PM
The son bluntly told the pastor to house and care for his mother as it was the pastor who persuaded the members to give sacrificially even when they are financially not able to..
...........................................
I think this man did the right thing.Unfortunately this kind of boldness is rare or non-existent within the church today.If only CC has more people like this, it would not have descended to this pitiable state today.SOMEONE SHOULD GO TO RY AND ASK HIM POINT BLANK- "HAVE YOU DOWNGRADED YOUR LIFESTYLE TO GIVE SACRIFICIALLY TO THE NEW CCC?"
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at March 27, 2012 2:55 PM
WHAT SP SHOULD AND OUGHT TO DO
........................................
SP should do the following until all the allegations against him are cleared.CC should be allowed to call for a requisition[without SP interference]and SP should offer himself to step down pending a vote from the CC people.That would make it crystal clear whether CC still wants him around.
But I think the answer is obvious in his mind. He would never dare take that approach.That was the same spirit of defiance that manifested from leaders of the M.East.Gadaffi, Mubarak ...hey all gave the same answers- without them around,their country would crumble.But theyhave disappeared and the country finally rid of this menace.
So why is SP still hanging around with his weekly "Sandiwara?"An honourable man would immediately step down until the complaints are cleared.It is only recently happening in Malaysian politics-leaders must step down until a proper investigation is made.
His respectability and reputation is lying in the dust.And he is trying to revive it-if he can.And the dump sheep are making it possible for him to stay on.
But in the last analysis- all Glory and Praise be to God above.And regards to all the believers who dared to stand up and let their questions be heard.Just imagine if this CC abuses was left unchecked.There would be probably another dozen AOG Reverends, who would appear from the shadows with "visions" of a Mega Church-and they would merciless fleece the sheep dry to fulfill their ambition.
I think,its more honourable to sell Goreng Pisang,Masala Thosai,Char Koay Teow or Bubur Lambung for our livelihood then to preach "sacrificial giving" with very little sacrifice ourselves.
ANAK MALAYSIA- tah tarik please....TARIK KUAT KUAT SIKIT-AH!!
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at March 27, 2012 3:16 PM
THE SINS OF THE CONGREGATION: Leviticus 4:13
“If the whole congregation of Israel sins unintentionally and the thing is hidden from the eyes of the assembly, and they do any one of the things that by the LORD’s commandments ought not to be done, and they are equally guilty."
EMBEZZLEMENT: THE CORPORATE SIN OF THE CONGREGATION
"While reading some patristic documents recently I was startled to discover that the Church Fathers are univocal in their insistence that the bulk of the revenue collected by a local church belonged by right to the poor.
There was no expectation among them that a large percentage of what was collected by a local congregation would be used for its own maintenance and ministry. In fact, to do so would have been viewed by them as a misappropriation of funds."
Vijay
Posted by Bamboo Conspiracy to Calvary Today 2 at March 28, 2012 5:31 AM
"While reading some patristic documents recently I was startled to discover that the Church Fathers are univocal in their insistence that the bulk of the revenue collected by a local church belonged by right to the poor.
................................................
A COMMENT ON THE ABOVE
And to hide their greed and selfishness,they would create an"Agapa Fund" supposedly to give to the poor.But on closer scrutiny,most Agape Funds carry the lowest percentage of church $$$. The Malays describe thie behaviour as " Cuci Mata/Silat Mata"[a deception on the eyes]
Pastors of today seem to have enormous ambitions.Its almost as though they are in a competition-"Lets see who can collect the most and build the biggest".And some of these preachers can even convince a group of professionals and drag them into their web.
I was in a church where the estimated cost of the church was RM20,000,000.Now thats a very big sum.Of course,when it was almost completed,the Holy Reverend up there,announced that there was going to be another collection- this time for the furnishings & furniture!!! [RM5,000,000].The dumb sheep got taken in again.Then the cost of maintenance. Its a never ending thing.As a family we said "Good Bye" to this type of religion which preaches Christ but has very little to do with the Person Of Christ Himself.Maranatha!![ The truth is - there are a lot of lonely people in that church]
And there seems to be no cure for these preachers.Because they are very eloquent and forceful in justifying why they did what they did.And they make it seem that it would be a great sin to question them.And the docile sheep,who have to work 5/6 days a week,hardly read the Bible and depend on the "Pastoral Care & Love" for the sheep--are just led along and fall into a pit- all led by the smooth talking Reverend.Preachesr who preach the "unadulterated Word of God" are almost non-existent these days.
My final word for the sheep is this- there is a spirit of slumber lurking within the church-so be discerning.SP and team have demonstarted to the greater Body what they are capable of doing if anyone stands in their way.The first person to question him, a senior member-Dr.Lum-was axed on the shortly thereafter.And then he got rid of all opposition.This is Communism masquerading as Christ.This is what Stalin,Hitler,Pol Pot did to achieve their objectives.Only difference is that this fox is operating within a church atmosphere holding a Bible.
SP has done deeds which ought not to be done on other believers.His strutting about in expensive suits, eloquence and his behaviour behind the pulpit are all a stench to our nostrils right now.We just could not continue to worship there when so many of our long time brethren are missing.This is not the Spirit of Christ operating. Its is own bruised ego-trying to justify himselfself.["...and he willing to justify himself asked "And who is my neighbour?]
Better to flee and silence our suspicions then to take the risk of being the next ones to be AXED & HUMILIATED!!!Now we as a family have found rest in a small unassuming fellowship. And we will never step into any church where the Pastor starts to say "Lets believe God to possess the land!!" And then goes on to say his true intention- A MEGA CHURCH.
Somebody has to stand up and speak against these jokers and therefore this blog was rightly birthed.Lets be a Watchmen for our brethren against worldly preachers.
BERHATI BERHATI- SYAITHAN SEDANG BERSIDANG.JEMPUT MASUK??
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at March 28, 2012 4:04 PM
I kid you not. When 2 businessmen meet, they size up one another by checking on the position the other holds and the size and turnover of his company. When 2 pastors meet the same thing happens, they size up one another. How big is his church and congregation, how big is their collection etc . Bigness seems to be the yardstick for success as well as the measure of God's blessings. I know this pastor from a big church who when he meets another pastor from another church would never fail to ask this first question , how big is your congregation? The poor pastor from a small church must have felt inferior and unblessed or lacking in faith when he answered quietly, only less than 100 lah. How can he not feel that way when bigness is now the measure of your success , not his servanthood and faithfulness to Christ or the bigness of his heart for his sheep. If the bigness of your building and congregation is the measure of God's blessing, Oprah's "church" gets top marks.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at March 28, 2012 6:29 PM
The methods & tactics that SP and his pastors are using in getting the members to give more of their money are similar to brainwashing and mind control normally used by cult leaders. These people misuse & twisted bible verses to convince the unaware members which even intellectuals & proffessionals succumbed to such methods which slowly taken away their ability to know what is right or wrong and lost all common sense and all discernment and they would just follow whatever these 'religious crabs' tell them to do.
Whether these false preachers knowingly or unknowingly realised what they do is actually mind control over the members is immaterial. What they are doing are totally against the teachings of the Bible and they have sinned against the Almighty God by their unholy acts.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at March 29, 2012 10:17 AM
CC LEADERSHIP-SEPERTI PAGAR MAKAN PADI
-SEPERTI HARUAN MAKAN ANAK
-SEPERTI KAPAK MEMOTONG AHLI
-MENCURI SUSU DARI LEMBU
-MURTAD TAPI MASIH AKTIF
-SELUDUP WANG SAMBIL BERKHOTBAH
-PEMIMPIN GEREJA TAPI AHLI SYAITAN
-LEMBARAN SUCI,TAFSIRAN IBLIS
-RUPA MALAIKAT,PERBUATAN MUSRIK
-PANGKAT TINGGI,SEMUA DARI MANUSIA
-SERIGALA PAKAI KULIT KAMBING
-SEMBILIH BIRI-BIRI,HISAP DARAH
-KUIT TEBAL,TAK TAHU MALU!!!
LARI KELUAR,SYAITAN DAH MASUK GEREJA!! SIFAT-SIFAT TERSEBUT DI ATAS SEMUA DICERMINKAN DARI KEBANYAKAN AOG REV.PISS-OFF SEKARANG.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at March 29, 2012 11:27 AM
different example of a leader
http://www.christianpost.com/news/mark-driscoll-steps-down-as-leader-of-acts-29-resigns-from-gospel-coalition-72283/
The methods & tactics that SP and his pastors are using in getting the members to give more of their money are similar to brainwashing and mind control normally used by cult leaders.
.............................................
COMMENT ON ABOVE
SP and CC crisis have become a test case for believers everywhere, and especially in this land.Dont fall for the innocent look in the Pastors faces. They are bound to read this blog-it would indeed be foolish if they don't.Through this crisis,one hopes that the chaff will be seperated from the wheat,and the sheep from the goats.God gave SP a fantastic ministry- but look what he has done.Maybe this is one of the reasons why God does not prosper every Minister of the Word-although He can.Bacuse the Pastors are so quickly and silently swayed by filthy lucre.Just hear RY preach.He is now preaching his own messages- not Gods.And he is not ashamed of it.Maybe it was a means of livelihood for him all along.many are praying that God will usher in the new leadership soon.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at March 29, 2012 4:10 PM
TO ANNONYMOUS, MARCH 29 11.27AM. PLEASE IF YOU POST YOUR COMMENTS IN BAHASA MALAYSIA, CAN YOU ALSO TRANSLATE THEM TO ENGLISH. YOU MUST KNOW NOT ALL UNDERSTAND MALAY, AND I SIMPLY DO NOT UNDERSTAND(95%) WHAT YOU ARE WRITING. PERHAPS FOR THE BENEFIT OF EVERYONE, COMMENTS SHOULD ONLY BE IN ENGLISH, OTHERWISE PLEASE TRANSLATE.
HOPE YOU ARE NOT OFFENDED. GOD BLESS.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at March 29, 2012 4:43 PM
I was in CC for a long time and so want to remain anonymous.
The writing was on the wall from way back.
When only SO and TO were the only other pastors, and sat on the stage during sermons, (the old timers will recall) SP made a 'look down' comment about them from the pulpit one Sunday morning while looking back to them, to the effect, "... people (i.e. the members of the congregation) don't stay away from services depending on WHO was preaching"; the implication being that he, i.e. SP made such great preaching compared to his two sidekicks.
Full of personal pride, SP commented once that during a pastors convention, he would mix with the pastors of Big churches, while the 'smaller' pastors would only mix with similar level pastors.
More recently a few years ago, he right before a visiting pastor from India preached, said that he would stop praising him as the pastor may not be able to live up to his praise!!
all the above was from the pulpit!
"pride goeth before a fall" comes straight from the bible, one of the earliest recording of this human failing.
let's learn taking in the good but rejecting the bad! from ANYBODY including SP.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at March 30, 2012 12:52 AM
Anonymous March 29 11.27AM
Also please watch your language and refrain from words like P..._O.. Otherwise another person will say this blog got no class. Criticise, yes even strongly but don't hate. Speak against but also pray for the person and church. Yes, contend for the faith Jude3.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at March 30, 2012 8:59 AM
Being presumptious is not necessarily faith.
Presumptious faith mocks at rational thinking and ignores Godly wisdom and discernment.
Luke 15: 28-30 "For which one of you,when he wants to build a tower,does not first sit down and calculate the cost to see if he has enough to complete it? Otherwise when he has laid a foundation and is not able to finish, all who observe it begin to redicule him, saying,'This man began to build and was not able to finish.'
While the above verse is in the context of counting the cost of discipleship, this wisdom of counting cost is very appropriate in managing our finances especially when we want to make huge investment or embark on a huge mega project. In the context of the church( any church not necessarily CC), we should ask the following questions; is it essential? is it extravagant? does it necessarily glorify God? will it put unnecessary financial burdens on the people?will we need to borrow heavily from the banks? will it affect the work of other ministries? will there be long term financial debts and consequences for the church to bear? etc
Even if we finally built it but with such huge borrowings and getting into huge debts,and with the pressure exerted on the people to give, the big question to ask is, is it all this neccessary. Is it worth so much more than the crystal cathedral and all the beautiful church buildings the tourists admire.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at March 30, 2012 10:24 AM
CC LEADERSHIP-SEPERTI PAGAR MAKAN PADI
........................................
The First Translation
A verbatim translation of the above proverb would result in an Absurdity because of the vast cultural and socio-lingual differences.Mental perception is also another factor because of the racial differences but the truth of the proverb is universal. "a fence eating the padi" But the hidden meanings cover numerous situations-
Betrayal of Trust,Criminal Breach of Trust,Breach of Fiduciary Duties,Criminal who looks innocent[Ted Bundy, Boston Strangler,Rev.Jim Jones,Rev. David Koresh)Smooth dealer,Adulterer,Child Molester,Abusive husband and a deceiver.
A fence is set up to protect and fend off undesirable elements from the field.But instead the fence becomes the silent predator and starts nibbling at the padi.It does protect,and keep others out BUT only so that it may nibble at it all by itself.It is the real culprit.But those who till the fields don't suspect the fence, because it seems to be guarding them and shielding the field which grows the goodies. But the hard to believe truth is this- it was fleecing the fields silently.(until one day, the owners suspect something horrible about the fence)
The New Testament caution is this- "You are those who outwardly appear as righteous men, but inside you are full of dead men bones.You are like gravestones which men walk over,without realizing it"
The frightening part is this- Jesus said this directly to the Pharisees into their faces!!Very few would dare do it today.
THIS IS A GLIMPSE OF THE ENGLISH TRANSLATION OF THE OLD MALAY PROVERB-"SEPERTI PAGAR MAKAN PADI"
Have a Good day and God bless.Don't forget,tomorrow March is over. Praise God for all good things from above.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at March 30, 2012 11:48 AM
THE VOICE OF IBRAHIM ALI
............................................
YOU MUST KNOW NOT ALL UNDERSTAND MALAY, AND I SIMPLY DO NOT UNDERSTAND(95%) WHAT YOU ARE WRITING..
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COMMENT ON THE ABOVE
I implore the editors of this blog not to allow posts like this.I now give my reasons.
This man described above is a politician.Those of us who read the Malay newspapers find that he has a big following and plays the race card-expertly & dangerously.He has described the Chinese and Indian community in a certain degrading manner which is not fit to be repeated in this Christian blog.His main screaming is this "How can a person who carries a Malaysian Passport,Identity Card,lives and works in Malaysia,and fights for equal rights for himself,is unable to speak the National Language?[Under Malaysian law the National Language is the Malay language.]Now we may not be so keen to assimilate into that language, but we know what happens if you approach any Goverment Counter.From Income Tax to Electric Bills - its all the Malaysian Language.[GUNAKAN BAHASA KEBANGSAAN]
This was one of the same cards that Hitler played in his time and was the main stinging theme in his 1st book- MEIN KAMPF[my struggle].
In his book he rails against the Jews for holding German citizenship- yet cannot speak German,live in Jewish communities,insist on keeping their own culture- yet were successful in finance & business.Through that one book- the German people got to know of Hitler- and voted him in.Quickly he got hold over the German military.You know the history.
One can be thankful that Ali does not have influence in the military.We never know what a man is capable of-until he gets the power.
I said this,because non-Christians also read this blog-you know what I mean.We certainly don't want the ruling class to think that church people are an isolated lot singing "Alleluias" by themselves and being disrepectful to the "definitive people" of Malaysia.[described by Dr.Mahathir as Malays in his latest book-A DR.IN THE HOUSE
Many have no plans to migrate- so we have to live and die here-under the Malaysian flag.
I have no quarrels with anyone who is not proficient in the National Language.But lets not make it difficult for the next generation of Christians who are arising before our very eyes.
We hope God will raise them up to prominent posts both in the Goverment and in the Private sector.Pastors and Rev's dont have much to mingle with the other communities- but we have to,because thats where we work and earn our livelihood.Lets not do or say anything that has the potential to jeopardize the future prospects of the young people in Church.
God bless you all.PENGIKUT JESUS TETAPI ANAK MALAYSIA
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at March 30, 2012 2:32 PM
ANONY TO IBRAHIM ALI MARCH 30TH 2.32PM.
SIR, MY APOLOGIES TO YOU IF I HAD OFFENDED YOU IN ANY WAY. NO, I AM NOT A POLITICIAN AND AM PROUD TO BE A MALAYSIAN & DO HOPE THAT 1MALAYSA COULD ONE DAY BE A REALITY. I THOUGHT THIS BLOG IS ONLY READ & PARTICIPATED BY CHRISTIANS ONLY AND IT WOULD PROBABLY BE ALL IN ENGLISH. I AM SURPRISED THAT A NON CHRISTIAN WHO IS A MALAYSIAN MALAY ALSO POSTED HIS COMMENTS. HOWEVER, LET ME SAY THIS, I AM TOTALLY NOT AGAINST COMMENTS IN BAHASA WHICH I COULD UNDERSTAND. SINCE I FIND THE WRITINGS TOO DEEP TO UNDERSTAND & I THOUGHT THE PERSON WOULD HAVE REALISED IT AND AT LEAST DO A TRANSLATION FOR THOSE WHO MIGHT NOT UNDERSTAND. YOU SEE MANY OF THE VERY MUCH OLDER FOLKS WHO THOUGH CAN SPEAK QUITE WELL, BUT ARE NOT PROFICIENT AND POOR IN THE UNDERSTANDING OF READING & WRITING OF THE BAHASA. IT IS FOR THE BENEFIT OF SOME OLDER FOLKS WHO MIGHT FIND IT DIFFICULTY TO UNDERSTAND THAT I SUGGEST FOR A TRANSLATION, WHICH AT THE SAME TIME WOULD BENEFIT US AS WE COULD ALSO LEARN FROM THERE. I ADMIRE THE MUCH YOUNGER GENERATION OF TODAY WHO ARE MOST PROFICIENT IN THE LANGUAGE THAT AT TIMES WHEN I COME ACROSS ANY ARTICLES OR LETTERS WHICH I DO NOT UNDERSTAND, I GO TO MY GRANDDAUGHTERS FOR AN EXPLANATION.
SIR, I APPRECIATE & RESPECT WITH ADMIRATION WHAT YOU HAVE WROTE. I HOPE ALSO YOU WOULD ACCEPT MY EXPLANATION. WISH YOU WELL.
TERIMA KASIH.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at March 30, 2012 7:41 PM
1st Peter 3 15
But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have.But do this with gentleness and respect,
..............................................
HOW THEN DO I INTERACT WITH ISHMAEL-MY BROTHER & COLLEAGUE?
RULES OF ENGAGEMENT
1st Round- Ishmael's usual outburst against the US biased policy for Israel/ discriminating againt Palestine.
RESPONSE:Do not engage.Be silent.After the initial complain and outburst- say gently that you are not an American.I am a Christian.
2nd Round- Our Book says Jesus never died or raised alive.He ascended straight to heaven.
ISAAC- Tread VERY Gently. Say "Is that what your Book says?? Have you read Surah Al-Miriam verse 33?"
IT IS WRITTEN SURAH 19 V 33
"Peace be on the day I was born
Peace be on the Day I die
Peace be on the Day that I am raised alive."
Surely it is enjoined on everyone of your religion to believe what has been sent down?Lets read a translation sometime together. [Then let the matter rest]DO NOT PUSH THE MATTER ANY FURTHER.
DO NOT PROVOKE OR SHOW OFF YOUR KNOWLEDGE.REMEMBER WHAT IS WRITTEN IN THE SCRIPTURES..1. GENTLENESS 2.RESPECT.
And do not make any reference to the Bible at this point of time.
SALAM SEJAHTARA.GOD BLESS YOU ALL.
[the present church is not equipped,in terms of knowledge,wisdom and interaction skills to stand before this other community.One reason is that the leadership has neither the burden nor the desire to bridge this gap. We are very busy with our stone buildings]
I looked for a man to stand in the gap- and I found none. Ezekiel.
God Bless your Sunday
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at March 31, 2012 2:50 PM
ALL LIES EXPOSED NOW !!!
At today's April 1, 2012 Sunday service PO mentioned that cc has begun loan draw down. This was the first SHOCK WAVE to many in the congregation who innocently swallowed hook, line and sinker - suckered into believing all those outright lies spewed from cc's church pulpit. Then during his delivery, PO very casually mentioned to the congregation the upcoming EGM- to vote in selling off the five bungalows (belonging to cc).
ALL PRAISES TO GOD ALMIGHTY ! MAY HIS TRUTH SHINE FOREVER, EXPOSING ALL EVIL LIES FROM ASS PEE AND HIS TWO TIMING PASTORAL STAFF including PO, SK and RY !
By the way, have you noticed today is APRIL FOOL'S DAY, April 1, 2012, maybe that's why PO struggled to deliver his sermon, during which period we almost slept - due to lack of proper spiritual food from these backslidden priests.
Today is the day that we CT bloggers had repeatedly, steadfastly and unceasingly warned the unwary members among the cc congregation about the financial situation of cc and ccc.
The EVIL pastors had been lying to you all the time that cc is financially sound, that we need not even touch the bank loan. Yet SUDDENLY they sing a different song, without even saying SORRY about the mess they themselves created ! Now they themselves say they need to draw down. Have you noticed ASS PEE has diasappeared from the sanctuary today, assigning the dirty work of spilling the beans about the bad news to "poor" PO ! No more "you feel good news, folks ". The end is coming for ASS PEE and his gang of thieves.
The ccc mega project WILL end in failure like we warned you. It would suck WE DUMB SHEEP into a bottomless pit - ONLY IF WE ALLOW OURSELVES TO BE INVOLVED IN THE MEGA BULLSHIT.
Disaster No. 1 - Bank Loan Draw Down ! Disaster No.2 Sell Off the five bungalows which were bought at peak period, now to sell at losses with our economy starting to dip. Future disaster No, 3 - sell off the Perdana Center ? then the Cheras Center ? Then the Damansara Endah mother church ? and the funny thing no pay cuts or staff reduction from cc and ccc ? and they sales talk us about sacrificial giving ?
Meanwhile, stop donating to cc and ccc!
TOTALLY TURN OFF THE TAP !
TTOTT ! TTOTT ! TTOTT ! TTOTT ! TTOTT ! TTOTT ! TTOTT !
HELP OTHER MORE WORTHY CHRISTIAN CAUSES ! NOT CCC !
God bless.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 1, 2012 4:34 PM
ASS PEE'S DREAM TURNING INTO NIGHTMARE
When a mad person becomes obsessively possessive of his dream, he may pose a danger to the well being and safety of others. When this mad man is ass pee, we all better watch out because the dumb sheep among the congregation may fall victim to his devious traps, placed into entrapment by his multiple diabolical brainwashing strategies and false teachings, diametrically opposite of our Heavenly father's teachings in our Holy Bibles.
Ass pee is not bothered by the ever spiralling costs of building the ccc mega complex. He is totally hellbent on finishing the ccc project at all. After all, he does not need to pay a single sen, it's you and we suckered feeding is ever mounting costs - as evidenced by the announcement about bank loan draw down, about the vote to sell the five church bungalows .... so why does he care a hoot ? He still thinks he calls all the shots ! Watch out !
Beware of this mad cult leader !
Turn off the tap ! Turn off the tap ! TOTT !!!
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 1, 2012 10:28 PM
A) Last week 25/03/2012sun RY preached in cheras and many of the points he emphasized were so hypocritical to say the least. No wonder PG2 praised him as tops in DRAMA and SP picked the right person for the Ilustrated Message for Good Friday service!!
The following are some of the points RY preached and I leave it to the readers of this blog to form their conclusion:
1) “See CCC become a ‘landmark’ in the city…see it coming to completion” (read: aren’t you proud to be part of a LANDMARK IN THE CITY!)
2) “People NOT LOOKING FOR A BIG CHURCH…people looking for a caring church, caring community…” (Dear pastor RY WHAT HYPOCRISY!....and btw remember how you removed that Christian sister from the AGM/EGM, how can you still preach on caring?)
3) “Christians who don’t want to forgive” (Dear pastor RY and the other pastors and the Deacons, have any of you call up any of the 400 that were cut of from CC?)
4) “Love must be sincere…..Let love be without hypocrisy…Don’t fake it!..
5) THEN CHURCH WILL BE SO NICE! LIKE REUNION DINNER EVERY SUNDAY”
Needless to say both RY and PO reminded the cheras sheep that God has bless them so much they know what to do…GIVE…GIVE…GIVE….
B) The ccc mega project WILL end in failure like we warned you. It would suck WE DUMB SHEEP into a bottomless pit - ONLY IF WE ALLOW OURSELVES TO BE INVOLVED IN THE MEGA……
Well said brother. The following conversations illustrate how dumb sheep can be so gullible and swallowed without question lies and crap dished out since the start of this CCC saga
(a) ASF(ANOTHER SMALL FRY) in cheras yesterday morning after seeing the notice calling for the EGM
ASF:Hi sister, so sad CC has to sell the 5 bungalows
Sister A (a senior and very active church member, quite well-off too):What’s so sad?
ASF: 50 years of God’s blessings and to sell just like that. What about the church and all the activities then?
Sister A: Nothing wat…last time the church just bought them to use for the church office only wat.
Anyway the church bought them cheap and if sell now got untung wat!!!
(i wonder whether Sister A knows how much blessings these bungalows has brought through the countless activities held in them like VBS, Royal Rangers, Missionettes etc etc etc …)
(b) ASF talking to another brother K, a very faithful giver and member of CC
ASF:Hi brother, CC has begun loan draw down.
K: Is it? I didn’t know. (I wonder how many cc members are like this!?)
ASF: Brother do you know CC borrowed RM14million and paying interest of RM70,000.00 monthly?
K: CC IS RICH. It has FD of RM100million as I read at the AGM. Otherwise the bank won’t loan. SP also gave a lot.
ASF: Well, if CC has FD of RM100million (current bank interest of 3%plus yearly) why not use it instead of borrowing at 6% annual interest?)
K(looking a bit blank): Ya…..don’t know ooo…
ASF: And now need sell bungalows
K(now looking enlightened): Ya oh, I don’t think the 5 bungalows can fetch RM100million. Ya should use the FD!!!
ASF: Oh yes, do you know this mess was what the axed 400 was trying to prevent?
K(looking surprised): Oh? one deacon told me they were dropped because they didn’t attend CC long time.
ASF: Sorry brother, you have been……..
C) PG2 preached in cheras today when she was scheduled for last week. She was accompanied by SP.
I think maybe if SP came last week (25/03/2012) his plea for the cheras sheep to give maybe too soon becos the week before i.e. 18/03/2012, he (SP) warned and reminded the cheras sheep to GIVE even if they don’t have and then expect a miracle as I wrote in my earlier blog.
This morning, his plea was even worse, asking those who have NOT participated in the many kingdom giving TO SIT DOWN.
Then HE ASKED THE SHEEP TO GIVE THEIR VERY LAST DOLLAR (reminding the sheep of the widow of Zarepheth.)
LET’S SEE IF ANY CC AP n DEACON OBEY
TO ALL THE SHEEP, PLEASE BE VERY WISE
ANOTHER SMALL FRY
Posted by ANOTHER SMALL FRY to Calvary Today 2 at April 2, 2012 5:09 AM
Sale of 5 bungalows with exercisable rights to buy back within 5 years at 35% increase in price (from selling price) - a bit strange, no?
This is what I think its all about:
The 5 bungalows will be sold to ONE "friendly" party who will then lease/rent it back to the church for up to 5 years since the church still needs the bungalows for the time being. But the church has no money to pay for these bungalows so therefore the church will commit (exercisable rights provides the church the option but there will be another side arrangement for the buy-back) to buy back these bungalows in 5 years time (by then hopefully the church will have some money) for - you got it! For 35% increase - this represents the total rental + holding costs. In other words, the "friendly" party will get a return of around 7% pa; not too bad. Of course if the church don't need the bungalows then (since CCC will be the focus and all activities will be held there), perhaps there will be another arrangement then it suffices for the church to just pay the owed rental + some interest charges.
Let's see if I am right. Anyone wants to guess who is this "friendly" party?
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 2, 2012 8:00 AM
Situation must be getting desperate.We were previously told Exsim will help CC raise a bank loan on the 5 bungalows. SP actually told members at the the EGM that it was difficult for CC to get a bank loan directly but Exsim will guarantee the bank loan.What happened? What is happening with all the payments that Exsim supposed to pay to CC on the joint venture agreement.Has the Exsim joint venture fallen through? Deacon Ngeow Soo Gin told us that the value of the 5 bungalows worth RM35 million can only be unlocked after CCC is completed. Why the hurry to sell now? He also told us valuation RM35 million. What is the selling price now?
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 2, 2012 9:27 AM
Wow, they are resorting to all sorts of fancy deals to finance CCC. God not providing,people not moved by God to provide so must use such methods. "Desperado when will you come to your senses?"
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 2, 2012 11:12 AM
Selling price will be based on 2 independent valuation report, at the minimum it will be be average of the values given by these valuers. Probably the valuations have already been done but the church not revealing as questions will be asked?
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 2, 2012 11:22 AM
“Christians who don’t want to forgive” (Dear pastor RY and the other pastors and the Deacons, have any of you call up any of the 400 that were cut of from CC?)
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HERE HE GOES AGAIN- THAT SALESMAN CHURNING OUT HIS CRAP AGAIN.RIGHTLY SPOKEN- HAS HE FOLLOWED UP ON ANY OF THE 400 AXED? CAN HE NAME ONE PERSON THAT HE FOLLOWED UP.I TELL YOU MAN-THESE MINISTERS ARE BACKSLIDDEN AND ARE IN THE SALES BUSINESS RIGHT NOW- PEDDLING THE WORD OF GOD FOR A PROFIT.ITS HAPPENING RIGHT BEFORE US.I AM NOT SURPRISED- AFTER ALL TRAINED BY SP/.
"....for are not like so many,peddling the Word Of God for profit." 2nd Corinthians 2.
RY- step down and earn your bread honourably.Standing up and holding a Bible and then begging for money from the congregation again-is a reproach on yourself.Have you become so thick skinned to the point that you dont know any shame???HAVE YOU SOLD YOUR CRV TO GIVE SACRIFICIALLY? HYPOCRITE!!!
SIGH.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 2, 2012 12:18 PM
Today is the day that we CT bloggers had repeatedly,steadfastly and unceasingly warned the unwary members among the cc congregation about the financial situation of cc and ccc.
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A response to above.
You see,I personally did not oppose SP just for the sake of opposing.The ambition to start CCC was a collossal financial undertaking which would ultimately tax and emotionally drain the Christians at CC.God already had blessed us with a wonderful sanctuary-and that too in an upper class neighbourhood.5 bungalows!!!Was that not enough for us as a people???Once upon a time CC was an inspiration to other churches.We were respected wherever we went.But one son of Belial took the church down the wrong path- into financial bondage,lies,power plays,and sermons ridden with money appeals and playing on the guilt of worshippers.There is ample evidence pointing towards "a seared conscience". ICHABOD- THE GLORY HAS DEPARTED.
And then the clever lies began.During one worship,after the usual money appeal was made,apparently the $$ collected was insufficient- so out rushed the chief usher, some whisperings and then SP takes the stage and says "The Holy Spirit prompted me to take another offering!!" Of course the financial pressure was on.And in that atmosphere- the Word of God cannot be preached freely.And a man of God got converted to a son of Belial.Balaam's error
2 Peter 2.
They have left the straight road and have gone astray,following the road of Balaam son of Bosor,who loved the wages of doing wrong,but was rebuked for his own transgression;a speechless donkey spoke with a human voice and restrained the prophet's madness
Look at the following blatant lies-"We don't need to borrow a sen from the Bank"- then later it was discoverd that we had to pay 70K in interest alone? And now you need the assembly to vote to sell the bungalows?
As usual,SP used his clowns to make the announcement.I am inclined to believe that these pastors are involved in some hanky panky for a long time now-and therefore they manifest the works of darkness.
There is neither truth or a clear conscience among them anymore.And Judgment has already begun in the house of God.And it will result in financial ruin and humiliation.
IN THIS IS A SIGN FOR ALL THE OTHER SO CALLED AOG REVERENDS WATCHING ALL THESE EVENTS HIDING IN THE SHADOWS.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 2, 2012 4:56 PM
The EVIL pastors had been lying to you all the time that cc is financially sound, that we need not even touch the bank loan. Yet SUDDENLY they sing a different song, without even saying SORRY about the mess they themselves created ! Now they themselves say they need to draw down
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a comment on the above
In my whole life I have never witnessed an AOG Rev.Pastor admitting to his mistakes.Maybe it happes in other planets,like Pluto or Mars.Usually they will have a nice worded sugar coated explanation to explain away what they did.Together with several Bible verses to support their actions too.
LAUGHTER IN THE HOUSE
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 2, 2012 5:03 PM
To be fair the pastors did not say that the church don't have to borrow - in fact at all the agms/egms, we were already told that we had a loan of $43.0 million. What was announced was that up to this point of time there were no borrowed funds. Of course the pastors were trying their best to "encourage" the sheep to give, give and give so that the church need not drawdown on the loan. But I guess it's clear that this has not worked. And if I am not mistaken, even if we fully utilize the $43.0 million loan and even if we could sell the 5 bungalows, there will still be a big shortfall in the financing required. How?
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 3, 2012 9:03 AM
Because of people's fleshy ways & pastors of carnal minds, satan is able to positioned himself & set his throne in the midst of this "Thing" we called church today. The "harlot church system" in particular the AOG churces,are under the domain of satan and it is he who takes control of these churches, the congregation of God's people. He parade himself to worshipers as their "jesus" but is a counterfeit jesus and not the Jesus of the Bible we know, for it is no wonder satan transformed himself as an "angel of light".
CC has turned itself into such a carnal church and the deception therein is so great that the pastors & worshipers do not even know that they may be serving the enemy, Lucifer in the midst of their service to Christ. A pastor who preaches some truth from the Bible doesn't makes him to be a true servant of God, for satan allows and is not against his "ministers" to preach some truth to cover up himself, for if he is against them preaching Jesus is Lord, satan would be out of business and have no venue to deceive the children of God. This is why many failed to recognise a false prophet, because they too easily accept them as true since they preached Jesus is Lord & Saviour.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 3, 2012 9:45 AM
What was announced was that up to this point of time there were no borrowed funds.....
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THE ABOVE STATEMENT WAS VERY MISLEADING.IT WAS MEANT TO CONVEY THE MESSAGE THAT CC WAS FINANCIALLY SOUND-NO NEED TO BORROW ANYTHING.AND ALL THE SHEEP WERE AGAIN TAKEN IN BY SP'S EXPERT ABILITY SO SPIN TALES.IN POLITICS THEY ARE DESCRIBED AS SPINDOCTORS.(WE ARE GOING TO INCREASE TAXES-TO SPEND ON NATIONAL SECURITY-OF COURSE ... FOR YOUR PERSONAL SAFETY.)BUT THE BUDGET DEFICIT IS EXPERTLY EXPLAINED AWAY BY AMBIGUOUS AND NEBULOUS LANGUAGE.AND THE WOOL IS PULLED OVER THE ELECTORATES EYES.
THOSE REMAINING AT CC SHOULD JUST STAND UP AND GO HOME.MAYBE FOR A FEW WEEKS DONT ATTEND CHURCH- TO REFLECT.THERE'S A BOOGEYMAN IN THE HOUSE- AND HE IS REAL SLIPPERY.100% MANUFACTURED AOG MATERIAL.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 3, 2012 11:59 AM
With knowledge that it will involve this kind of gigantic financing,yet the leaders chose to proceed in putting up a concrete structure and proud for it to be a significant landmark in KL. Is this all necessary to fulfil the Great Commission? Is God pleased with a massive, expensive, extravagant concrete building? Has the building now replaced the people of God as the "CHURCH"? Is all the financial burden put on the people and at the cost of splitting the body of believers at CC worth it?
Now that construction has proceeded, there is no other choice but to try and complete it. It will serve as a landmark to remind people of unnecessary extravagant expenditure. Hope pastors and leaders of other churches that read this will learn a big lesson and focus on building the true CHURCH, not put up expensive extravagant buildings, or be obsessed with empire building to build a name for yourself and your 'church'. Pastors, don't forget the church is the people. It's go make DISCIPLES not build your empire, bulid landmarks to make your name and 'church' famous. And it is not about building a big mega church membership. It is about making DISCIPLES. When our egos swell up we forget basic. We all need to remind each other of basics.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 3, 2012 12:28 PM
It's go make DISCIPLES not build your empire, bulid landmarks to make your name and 'church' famous.
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It was CC's desire to put up a landmark all along-nothing to do with making disciples.The sting is not there-because it is not SPs hard earned money NOR his personal retirement money.So it was easy with the money appeal.
An Iraqi became famous overnight throughout the Arab world for throwing a show at Bush. Then there was this Malaysian who threw a show at the Judge for refusing to listen to him. Maybe the time has come for someone to throw a shoe at one of the CC's leadership.My only prayer is this- WHEN YOU THROW YOUR SHOW- DON'T MISS!!
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 3, 2012 4:12 PM
INEVITABLE ENDING FOR PG AND GANG
We truly believe the series of major problems that continue to plague PG and his cohorts are answers to our prayers to our Father God. God must have heard our cries for justice. God must have delivered the Holy Spirit to heal wounded spirits. God must have responded to our petition for vengeance to be His, and His alone.
And we are very confident, knowing that the inevitable end would come to PG and his gang of socalled pastors, who are backslidden priests, parasites, hypocrites, conmen,who betrayed the trust and beliefs of dumb sheep among the congregations, evil monsters who double crossed the innocent people, cheating them of their hard earned money, secretly transferring church funds without proper approvals and authorisation, who unabashed misquoted or misinterpreted the contents of the Holy Bible.
May all of them mentioned be held before GOD ALMIGHTY on JUDGEMENT DAY for all their sins committed against others todate. May the whole world remember the sinful mistakes of PG as a lesson to all to beware of the dangers of cult leaders.
May the eventual collapse of the ccc mega project stand in silent testimony as a warning to other church leaders who dare to leads their sheep astray from God's right path.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 4, 2012 2:08 PM
FOOLISH ACTS OF CHRISTIAN BELIEVERS
The five foolish maidens who rushed to the announced wedding ceremony with their lamps, but without sufficient oil, paid for their grave mistake by being shut out and not allowed to participate in the said grand wedding.
Are we all going to be like them ?
We should not allow ourselves to be foolish, to be cheated of our rights, to be conned of our hard earned moneys, to be suckered of our time and effort chasing the winds, chasing the wild selfish dream of a madman obssessed with his GRAND PERSONAL VISION of a mega complex - A CONVENTION CENTRE - NOT A CHURCH !!!
Are we all so foolish to finance a CONVENTION CENTRE - that is expected to cost RM HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS TO BUILD, EQUIP AND MAINTAIN ?
Where is cc going to find RM70,000,00 PER MONTH just to service the interests due ?
Why was cc told by the pastors at the pulpit that "we need not borrow a single sen" ?
Why now PG and gang sing a different tune, saying that cc need to draw down from the bank loan ?
Why did cc's leaders now say we need to borrow RM 14,000,000.00 FOURTEEN MILLION ?
Last time they assured us that the church buildings will not be touched at all. Now they say different, they need to hold an EGM to voite selling off five bungalows belonging to cc !!!
Who lied ????? The congregation ? Or the pastors ?
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 4, 2012 2:28 PM
WHY ? WHY ? TELL US WHY ?
Why must cc firstly embark on building such a very expensive church, costing hundreds of millions of RM, to finance, design, construct, to maintain, to repair ?
Why must the 400 plus church members be axed by PG when ccc is big enough to seat 3,000 ? 5,000 ?
Why must the congregation be squeezed dry every Sunday service ?
Why is not the cc staff force be accordingly downsized/reduced since the congregation size has been monthly reduced ?
Why are the stipends (aka salaries) of senior pastor, executive pastor, associate pastors, etc be accordingly trimmed down - according to the regular chanting of the pastors preaching at the pulpit ?
Why are you pastors not practising what you preached ? Or are you all parasites and hypocrites ?
Why would church members at this coming EGM dercide to vote in favour of selling off the five bungalows belonging to cc, which were bought at what we believe at the peak ? Especially keeping in mind now is not a good time to sell, since the sale would not generate the highest property sale profits ?
Why ? Why ? Why ?
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 4, 2012 2:44 PM
BOYCOTT CALVARY CARNIVAL
Do not support the actions of a dictator. Most of us would readily subscribe to such noble populist thinking.
Most unfortunately, some of us are suckered into financing the existence of a demonic cult leaders who thrives on the sufferings and fear of others under his evil spell and bullying dominance.
This monster is Ass Pee.
Do you want him to remain in dictatorial control of our cc for years to come ?
IF NOT,
please BOYCOTT Calvary Carnival.
Please STOP DONATING TO CC and CCC collections.
Please STOP GIVING SACRIFICIALLY to cc and ccc.
TREAT YOURSELVES AND FAMILIES to nice holiday trips / grand restaurant dinners, or put into special family savings funds.
OR DONATE TO OTHER CHURCHES, not cc or ccc.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 4, 2012 2:54 PM
Another Crystal Catheral in the making. The script is written so is the ending story. We don't need a prophet to tell us. This CCC is money eating monster unless it is run commercially to survive or else the members going there will be tax like hell in the form of tithes & offerings. Be wise use your hard earn money to support worthy cause. Bye bye CCC.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 4, 2012 8:16 PM
RY, how low is your understanding of God. Do you think God is after glamour or be impressed by some big modern architectural building to become a "landmark in the city"? Another of your "gimmick" to persuade members to give again! Truly the way you behave & talk behind the pulpit, you are becoming to look like a "religious clown".
God is not after a place or a building. His building program is made up of living stones, not some concrete blocks, lumber & nails. He is looking for a people known for their faith & by their love for Him and for one another. He is raising up a people to be led by His Holy Spirit and do His will. RY you and your fellow pastors should just STOP preaching a false doctrine on giving.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 4, 2012 10:02 PM
EMBRACE GOD WITH OUR LOVE,
NOT CONTAIN GOD IN MANMADE
MEGA STRUCTURES
It is sheer stupidity of the highest degree for SP1 to even think of trying to contain God in his manmade structures misnamed ccc, purportedly in His Honor, but in reality as a symbol of his (PG's) personal pride of achievement, especially to coincide with the AOG World Conference. The ever mounting price to pay will definitely bankrupt cc and its congregation, members and visitors alike.
God is Love personified, repeatedly illustrated in both the Old Testaments and the New Testaments. God - who owns everything, and may we be reminded God owns everyone too - is more concerned about saving the lost souls on earth than to be bothered about the construction of ccc !
He definitely would not approve of SP1's list of sins in the hall of shame as follows:
1. Spotted in a notorious red light area famous for prostitution activities,
2. Membership in private club terminated after found guilty by board of inquiry of flashing himself naked before opposite sex,
3. Discovered tranferring church funds to personal account without proper approval from church board,
4. Unilaterally axing more than 400 voting and associate members of cc without stating real reasons,
5. Did not give chance to any of these to appeal the drastic decision,
6. Does not practise transparency in accounts matters,
7. Refused repeatedly to have reconciliation with concerned church members,
8. Foster hatred of fellow Christians, even own cc members,
9. Spread lies even during church service from pulpit,
10. Create special high paying positions for own family members,
11. Habitually mislead the congregation, including dumb sheep, on church matters on finance and policies regarding cc and ccc.
12. Refused to disclose truths to congregation over several matters on cc and ccc, and his family.
13. Does not practise what he preaches. For example, he and his pastors weekly brainwashes the congregation to give sacrificially BUT TODATE they have NOT sold their expensive bungalows, their fancy overpriced cars, their other possessions to give to the church building funds !!!!!!!!!!
We sheep are not that dumb to know that !
The list is not exhaustive, but we believe you get the whole picture.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 6, 2012 12:08 AM
CCC - CHEAT, CHEATING & CHEATED
Have you ever noticed "CCC" also stands for CHEAT, CHEATING & CHEATED - an ongoing game, where Ass Pee is the Grand Game Master, setting out all the rules and regulations, rewriting and even reversing the said rules and regulations at his personal whims and fancies, including or excluding new terms and conditions, interpreting and misinterpreting whichever parts of the game show he likes or dislikes.
Meanwhile, all those stupid victims (read "dumb sheep") who get themselves caught up in his numerous traps via his bag of dirty tricks, like appealing to your guilty conscience not contributing or not donating enough to God's holy church, please note you are all taken for a ride, or two or more, many more, many many more ....
Meanwhile, let's learn the basics -
CHEAT - that what this cult leader and his henchmen excel in - cheating the church congregation to give, give and give - to finance their rich and famous, expensive life styles.
CHEATING - that's the neverending cycle of squeezing all you suckers dry every week after week, every month after month, every year after year ! Even boa constrictors and pythons (or even ah longs) lose out to these expert torturers who mastered the fine art of sucking your money dry, even pycho you to tap from your secret emergency funds !
CHEATED - the climax of the game show - when you discover too late you had been had - like innocent lambs to the slaughter houses !!!!!
Learn these facts by heart - for your own protection against these fraudsters in shepherd skins !!!! If you reach this part, you are unceremoniously and ruthlessly thrown out of the game like rags - because you are of no value to these merciless "unholy" mercenaries.
End game.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 6, 2012 2:01 PM
My comments on CCC- Cheat, Cheating, Cheated
Why do you keep ranting like that. It's just a display of uncontrolled emotionalism and s spewing of hatred. You only alienate readers from supporting what you stand for. Sometimes I wonder whose side you are actually on.
Speak objectively and intelligently, then you can convince others to your point of view. So let us only have intelligent discussion here, no need for ranting.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 6, 2012 6:09 PM
CCC = Cheat, Cheating and Cheated.
Well say brother!!
Indeed CCC started in lie, continue in lies and maybe finished but still with lies. In all that we could see in CCC is not God's glory, but the nature of Satan, the great deceiver, the father of lies. With this, it is obvious that CCC is never God's plan, but a plan of an arrogant pastor who loved money. And in all PG's action, we see hypocrite. How can we not hate all his deeds? If you love good, you must hate evil. If you do not hate evil of PG, i wonder how much you love good. I believe God hate all the wicked deeds of PG too. He is one of the many pastor that God shun, for he has bound many with his false teaching of tithes.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 7, 2012 1:26 AM
To Anonymous April 6, 12:08am,
Can you provide evidences to back up your allegation on SP1 especially list of sins no. 1 & 2.? If you cannot please do not state it. Tks.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 7, 2012 9:12 AM
TRUTH HURTS
They say, "Truth hurts".
Apparently, our contribution to the CT2 blog site must have hit some REALLY RAW NERVES from suspected PG1 regime of his die hard supporters.
Indeed we are very overwhelmingly happy that the CT2 sportingly printed out our blog comments on "Cheat, Cheating & Cheated" - which we purposely chose the harsh language style - intentionally to fulfil two prong objectives. Firstly, to really jolt the readers (including the unitiated, innocent "in the dark" "dumb sheep" not meant to be derogatory) out of their comfort zones into absolute awareness about the grave danger from present cult leadership in cc and in future in ccc. Secondly the serious aim is to elicit responses, hopefully positive responses from concerned members and friends who really love cc, to spearhead the future direction of our united front against this cult leadership.
If Anonymous April 6, 2012 6.09 pm thinks its all "ranting", it does not bother us a single iota.
Why ? Because we KNOW we are on GOD's side, fighting hard for justice, spreading the awareness against this evil regime out to cheat our money, by all the devious means they can think of and practise.
Meanwhile, Mr or Ms Anonymous, we respect that you are entitled to your personal viewpoints. Likewise, please be more open minded to respect our expressed views on this matter. We don't think you have the right to unilaterally pass judgement on others like you did with words like "ranting", "display of emotionalism", "alienate readers", "speak objectively and intelligently".
Who's ranting, really ?
Until you know us personally in depth (which we suspect you do not), we think you are unqualified to judge us as a "smart alec". Watch out for boomerang effects.
Until then, have a nice day !
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 7, 2012 1:54 PM
I agree, Brother. Ranting will get you nowhere and only bring satisfaction to Satan who is the instigator of all church problems. But the church is US, you and me. We are the temple of the Holy Spirit. Can you forget about the wrong doers long enough to think that God is also dealing with our righteousness, our character, whether we are humble and holy. The Bible says, "Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord: Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled:" Heb 12:14-15. Instead of ranting, consider this: the longer you stay in a snake pit, the greater the likelihood of getting bitten. If you cannot endure, then climb out! If you want to tame the snakes, you have to be smarter than them. Better to just believe that God is in control and He will not be mocked!
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 7, 2012 4:24 PM
"...CCC - CHEAT, CHEATING & CHEATED..." is an accurate description !
Jesus warned us about FALSE Prophets in our midst!
The CRISIS in CC & CCC is a personification of these "False Prophets" ! It is so REAL to the Spirit filled Faithfuls !
I pray that the Spirit of Discernment will fill the Hearts and Minds of all Christians in West & East MALAYSIA ! AMEN !
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 7, 2012 7:12 PM
Why you guys are so offended with CCC as Cheat, Cheating and Cheated? If you think this description is harsh, read teh Bible. Jesus has words that are more harsh when it comes to speaking against evil and hypocrisy.
I just don't understand what so harsh with CCC as Cheat, Cheating and Cheated. Personally, i think only people who worship the building would be offended. Remember when the Pharisees thought Jesus will destroy the Temple in 3 days and then rebuild it, they were angry. Why? They sees the Temple (not God Himself) as their God. Could the same spirit seem among you who angry just because someone say CCC as Cheat, Cheating and Cheated? Hey, open your mind, take a deep breathe and read again...you will notice that it is not harsh at all. No need to censor anything from that phrase. It is just you who somehow offended over any negative comment against the building CCC. Could you somehow caught into seeing the building as god? Worth checking. I know there are people out there who consider any negative comment on CCC, even on its architecture or design, would considered as blaspheme. No joke, they have somehow consider the building as gods. Sign of making gods from object. So down fallen is the result of PG teachings.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 7, 2012 11:04 PM
HOW HAVE WE ROBBED THEE? IN TITHES AND OFFERINGS(Mal 3:8)
Now Malachi 3:8-10 clearly tells us to bring in all the tithes. If we obey we are blessed but if we fail then we have robbed God and are cursed. That's what the bible says here, agree? So this is what I want to point out to the teachers of tithes and those who submit themselves to the teachings of tithes who often quote the above verses in support of tithing.
WHO DO YOU THINK ARE THE ROBBERS MENTIONED IN MALACHI? The answer is quite clear. We cannot run away from the fact that it refers to those who failed to give all the tithes, which in Malachi means the PRESCRIBED TITHES UNDER THE MOSAIC OR LEVITICAL LAWS ( Dt 14:22-28, Lv 27:30-33, Nu 18:21-24).
NOW note this carefully all teachers and practitioners of tithing. That PRESCRIBED TITHES are 2 tithes each year and an extra 3rd tithe in the 3rd year, roughly averaging 23.3% per year. Now if you are only giving 10% or just 1 tithe as you are taught today, then you are robbing God of the other 2 tithes. You are the robbers referred to in Malachi and under a curse. Since AOG pastors and other teachers of tithing also insist tithes can be given in money form, then please also note the 3 tithes on money income is not just on your salaries but will include other incomes like interests, dividends, profit and gains from shares, property and all other transactions. Now have you fallen short in tithing as prescribed in Malachi and OT? Are you guilty of robbing God and under a curse?
Brethen,if you submit yourself to tithing, then you cannot withhold any part or else you put yourself under a curse. But for those who have chosen not to submit to the Mosaic/Levitical laws of tithes, the levitical laws do not apply. NT teaches us to give what we purpose in our hearts, not under any compulsion but to be a cheerful giver driven only by God's love for us and not driven by fear of judgement or desire for some multifold blessings.
David Pawson will never teach tithing because it is not required for New Testament Christians. To the pastors and teachers of tithing, search your conscience, and please repent and be truthful and honest about what the Bible says about tithing and henceforth cease from preaching such lies anymore.
For those who wish to comment, no ranting and uncouth language please. Makes me think you belong to the fifth column planted to discredit this blog.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 7, 2012 11:16 PM
Is sad that the church is stepping into the big debt today. It started of with a humble church and now ruin into big financial crisis. I have been to this church since i was a kid and now i no longer in this church. They build the CCC as if we will be on earth forever. On one hand, Christians believed living in this world is just temporary basis and our home will be in heaven but yet is contradicting. My dad who is not a believer got to know about how the Pastors in this church sucks the people monies, got really piss off. Is really sad to have such a testimony to the non believer. Now to preach to him will be harder. OH GOD, Have MERCY. Although we can say NEVER look into human as an example because Human fails all the time. Now for the family to show him GOD'S LOVE thru US, PRAYER AND PRAYER ARE THE ONLY WAY to penetrate through.
Re GIVING, can you just make it simpler and say that only what is given from the heart AND given cheerfully/joyfully is going to be blessed? Besides, it is God who does the accounting. From what I learned, God looks at our hearts and not the impression we try to make. And who said the tithe belongs only to the church coffers? What about charities, mission organizations, soup kitchens for the poor? Tithing in my opinion is OT which NT ministers take advantage of to make sure their needs are supported. I think it is really a doctrine of the devil since some folks get burned up when they drive a beat up car and the pastor drives a luxury car and lives a good life while they live a simple life.
To Anony April 7th, 9.12 am. The allegations of sins on List 1 & 2 are very serious and anyone can be sued if they are found to be lies made up to tarnish the image of a person. There must be some elements of truth, otherwise who would risk of been sued. You seemed to look very highly on SP and think its most impossible for him to commit such acts. However, till now SP has not come out to answer & deny these charges but had been totally silence which is not good for him since he is a leader of a congregation of church members. By keeping a total silence, he is creating into the minds of members that they could be true. If they are all lies, don't you think he has nothing to be afraid of and just come out publicly to prove his innocense to the congregation. BUT HE HAD BEEN ALL QUIET AND HAD NOT SAID A SINGLE WORD ABOUT IT. Aren't you suspicious!!.
However, to be fair to all, would you be willing to find out from sources if these allegations had merit. And if you are convinced they are true, I would be really curious how you would react to them and to his character and would still support him. If after checking out, you still think they are lies, then let us know the reasons & facts to support your claim.
Lastly,let me ask you, if you regard sins on List 1 & 2 are not true, what about the remaining list of sins mentioned therein. Are they also lies? The Bible says that if one breaks just one of the 10 commandments, he breaks all.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 8, 2012 5:27 PM
Continue:
Pastors, be warned that when you teach the tithing prescribed in Malachi and OT as only 10%(one tithe), please remember you are teaching the congregation to rob God, robbing God of the other 2 tithes prescribed in Malachi and OT. You yourself become a robber who in turn teach others to rob God as well. Worst still the blood of the peoples' guilt is upon your head because you are responsible for teaching them deceitfully.
But those who choose to abide by NT teachings on free will giving, they are free from the judgement of legalistic tithing because under the New Covenant they give under GRACE AND GRACE ONLY and never being part of the Levitical laws.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 8, 2012 6:24 PM
Further to what Anon, April 8, 2012 5:27 PM has suggested and I quote from that comment, "to be fair to all, would you be willing to find out from sources if these allegations had merit."
May I suggest some people you can conduct an interview with.
Group 1 : PG or PG2. Ask them if they were Lake club members before in the 70s till early 80s.
Group 2 : Their children, Pam & Jim. Ask them if it is true they spent most of their weekends in Lake Club when they were young.
Group 3 : Ask Peter Ong if he acted as driver to fetch PG's children to Lake club in the late 70s to early 80s.
If any one answers YES. Then you can guess why they are no longer members to such a prestigious club. Why would PG give up membership to such an exclusive club especially in 70s & 80s, when club membership were only affordable to the rich.
Mind you, the Lake club membership fees would have been paid by the church anyway. Would he give up such a sort after club membership that are frequented by the rich even up till today?
Wait a minute, you can also ask PG to tell you about the "Irish Coffee". Please don't ask me to tell you here. Go ask PG yourself. It's his story, not mine to tell.
Think about it.
Posted by Go ask some questions to Calvary Today 2 at April 8, 2012 7:23 PM
Attended the Easter Service at the National Hockey Stadium. Expected the message to proclaim and exalt the risen Lord (besides just saying to each other "He is Risen!") but sad to say it was focussed on the call to give/support the CCC financially. No altar call/challenge to present our lives as "living sacrifices" - this had to give way for a special offering collection. Sigh.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 9, 2012 9:22 AM
Anonymous April 8, 2012 1:33AM
Agree with you totally that tithing is of OT and that is why I made references to levitical laws and link it to Malachi and point out that the prescribed tithing (under Levitical laws) is 3 tithes(2+1) and paying less tantamounts to robbing God. It's difficult to make it any simpler as I was specifically addressing those who teach tithing and those who submit to these teachings. My point was to draw to their attention that the warnings of Malachi in actual fact applies directly to them, knowing that virtually all of them will not be able to afford the payment of 3 tithes and put themselves under the jeopardy of judgement stipulated in Malachi.
Why many choose to believe the teachers of tithes and not the bible is the result of their ignorance in the Word of God. They don't study the Word for themselves but rely solely on their pastors, many of whom could not care less about the financial situation of your household and will harp on money, money and more money, especially when they have to pay for their expensive extravagant projects or lifestyle. That is why we need to warn others of this false teachings.
We are a NT people and no longer under the levitical laws and it's various ceremonies associated with the temple. They have played their part in God's wonderful divine plans but now God's plan is centred on Christ and His grace. The laws of tithes has now been replaced by giving under grace, no tithes, no fixed mandatory percentages , just giving cheerfully to the work of God, driven only by His love and what He did for us on Calvary.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 9, 2012 10:38 AM
"Sixteen years ago, I talked about the desperate needs in other parts of the world. Now I tell Christians, wherever they are, that they must 'refall' in love with Jesus. Christianity in the West today says we must have a bigger church and bigger car and a better suit. Once Christians fall out of love with that and fall in love with Jesus, I won't need to talk mission: they will become missionaries because they love Him." - Helen Roseveare
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 10, 2012 9:12 AM
Big church building has it's place. Otherwise church will be very boring with small churches or no building like house church. Different size churches cater to different needs, strata of society and under different circumstances. My point is not be so negative of building big church as long as they are financially capable. Write some positive notes and provide both sides of the coin. What I read is very one sided and negative. It does no good to further the Kingdom of God.
I know some of you may don't like what I write. It's ok, everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
By Fair minded
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 10, 2012 10:26 PM
You should express your opinion ONLY AFTER you have done your homework and READ all of the posts in this blog FIRST.
Mega churches are not Biblical, BTW. More things go wrong in big churches than small churches, more people, more money problems, more carnality, more of everything else that could go wrong will go wrong, esp. when leaders have a large following and they follow their own agendas instead of the Holy Spirit.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 11, 2012 8:13 AM
A. No altar call/challenge to present our lives as "living sacrifices" - this had to give way for a special offering collection…..
I was at the Easter Sunrise Service too and what i saw and heard was so sad.
‘Who rolled the stone’ is indeed a powerful theme to both believers and those searching for a living God. It could have been about how God rolled that stone to show the world the Resurrected Christ, how GOD’S PLAN OF SALVATION FOR ALL MANKIND WAS FINALLY ACCOMPLISHED. Jesus Himself could have removed the stone. But God sent His angels. This shows to us how the Trinity worked closely together.
Yet instead of this powerful message of the Risen Lord for Salvation, the whole message was about ccc and sacrificial giving to ccc!!! The speaker was clever enough to pepper his message with Bible verses to make the message seem very Christian and Scriptural but thank God for giving us discerning minds and brains to see his true intention!!
And then finally a white man had to pray for the collection. Needless to say he emphasize on ccc and giving for ccc!
Hei mr white man, how about paying the RM70,000.00 bank interest for April? After all that’s only about USD23,000.00? (…probably chicken feed to you???). SP, the APs n BOD will be thankful to God n you.
The past couple of evangelistic efforts (Easter and Christmas presentations) has sadly been clouded by SP and his APs’ for funds for ccc beginning at 2004 Easter Presentation at the Putra Stadium, Bukit Jalil.
And this year they didn’t even have the altar call! ( …forgotten becos of the obsession to collect $$$$$ for ccc? or becos of the pressure to meet payment datelines or to get the funding for ccc?????....)
B. Some observations among Christian brothers and sisters
i) There are those that are so brainwashed by the pastoral preaching that they have become of like minds as follows:
• Don’t worry, when they see the nice big completed ccc they (referring to the 400 cut from the church) they will come back
• When ccc is completed, many many many will come
• “kam yet mm tong mong yet” { that’s Cantonese meaning today different from yesterday}…nowadays different you need grand buildings to attract people to church
• No need worry, ccc is from God, God will surely supply all the $$$$$$ and needs
• cc is rich
ii) The 5 bungalows
• No point keeping the bungalows
• Better sell them, can get high price to pay for ccc
• Cannot do anything with them (no evangelism becos in residential area)
• Bought cheap, now sell high price can get big ‘untung’
It is really no surprise that SP, the APs and the BOD can continue to rake in the $$$ from the sheep especially for ccc when they (the above sheep) think like that.
One blogger noted that cc can still get RM200,000.00 plus for faith promise alone almost every month is still a lot.
C. Proud of ccc
Of course when one is driving a big posh car like a Rolls, Jaguar or Lexus, he/she is very likely to feel proud especially when he/she doesn’t have to pay for it or maintain it. Or when he/she is …… rich.
It will be a different story when he/she has to slog for it. He/she may not even want it unless he/she can comfortably afford it.
Many bloggers had written on the staggering cost of ccc. To quote
…Are we all so foolish to finance a CONVENTION CENTRE - that is expected to cost RM HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS TO BUILD, EQUIP AND MAINTAIN ?
…This CCC is money eating monster unless it is run commercially to survive or else the members going there will be tax like hell in the form of tithes & offerings.
How one can still be proud ( AND THAT NOT EVEN NAMED AS A CHURCH) is beyond my comprehension.
DEAR CC MEMBERS PLEASE BE WISE
GOD BLESS
Posted by ANOTHER SMALL FRY to Calvary Today 2 at April 11, 2012 10:21 AM
ILLOGICAL REASONING
Fair minded, you are entitled to express your personal opinion. However we beg to differ in favour of logical thinking and good reasoning regarding the real need to build MEGA CMNLEXES, in guise of BIG CHURCHES if it may mean burdening the church with ever snowballing debts, or worse bankrupting the church !
Please honestly answer the following question :
If you are the senior pastor / chief priest of a church, do you WILLINGLY AND KNOWINGLY still proceed despite having to burden the church congregation (and its future congregation) with outstanding debts totalling millions (suspected tens, if not, high probability of hundreds of millions - all for the sake of personal glory ?
And all the accompanying stress of borrowing RM 14 million ? Why saddle the poor congregation with having to service the monthly interests totalling RM70,000.oo at the moment ? Plus the added pressure of URGENTLY "giving sacrificially" so that the contractor can finish the construction by or before August 2012 !
Please also keep in mind the present size of the total congregation has shrunk drastically to hundreds maybe 500 - compared to the estimated 3,000 or more in its heydays. Keep in mind that the axing of the 400 plus voting and associate me4mbers also meant that this core grooup of dedicated, loyal and commited Christians also meant correspondingly, projectedly a big drop in all church collections - tithes, love offerings, faith pledges, faith offerings, missions givings, etc, etc, etc. Also keep in mind most of these members were professionals, business people, bosses, etc.
Remember the shame about Crystal Cathedral ?
There were many other precedents.
Our conclusion : These leaders definitely are NOT God's annointed ones ! Otherwise they would not end up in such a mess.
Posted by david to Calvary Today 2 at April 11, 2012 10:42 AM
Big building nor small building is not a matter. What's count is the heart behind all these. From CCC, we see Mammon, the greed for fame, love for money and lust for power. God is not glorified, but instead PG is exalted. Believers don't grow in the Lord but instead bound into a cult movement that ignore all godly judgment. The disease spread even to small church. Many AOG pastors talked about vision of big building, but neglect doing pastoring. All they ask for is money, but never minister unto the needs of people.
Jeremiah said it right, "From the least to the greatest, all greedy for gain"... gain power, wealth and fame. And what the AOG superintendent do? Nothing other than approve all these. Wolf of the same pack!
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 11, 2012 11:34 AM
The fact that they believe people will return because of the building is scary. This means that it is no longer about standing on God's side or not; nor about moral, integrity or righteousness. It is merely about appearance. Most people judge on architectures and appearance, embracing the fake "feel-good" news, and bother not if anythign unrighteous. PG is now relying on this strategic just like devil does. ANd i think many will fall into it. I think many will return too. Afterall, if the AntiChrist can make people adopt 666 for sake of some comfort in life, so will people return to CCC for some prestige feeling of a fallen church.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 11, 2012 11:39 AM
The EASTER service showed PG and Die Hard Stubborn supporters are desperate for "MONIES" to finance their "Rich Life Style" in the midst of impending Financial disaster !
CC is just like a LOST SHEEP engulfed in Disobedience,Stubbornness, Strife, Anger, Hatred, Lack of the First LOVE and Strayed from its Spiritual VISION in the GREAT COMMISSION to save the LOST in the World! CCC is simply its earthly instrument to bring about CC downfall !
Frankly speaking, like the US Crystal Church, no human hands can ever stop the CCC to be AUCTIONED off in the near future as Foreseen in 2003! The whole World belonged to GOD !
Is this the The Lord of Hosts's Forewarning for CC specifically and for all Malaysian Churches in general! As Jesus taught in the scripture, be vigilant and Beware of False Prophets and False Pastors and False Teachers in our Midst!
Let's Fast and Pray that we will not be Left behind during His Second Coming ! AMEN !
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 11, 2012 11:50 AM
My comment on: " Big church building has it's place.Otherwise church will be very boring with small churches or no building like house churches."
BORING? Did I read that right? Hello, the brethen can gather anywhere and in any kind of building each Sunday or any other day purely for the purpose of worshiping God and to study his Word and it's NOT boring. Obviously this guy gathers with the brethen for the wrong reason if he requires a big beautiful building to make his time there less boring. In a nice big beautiful building he can look and admire the stain glass or the beutiful interior finishings to satisfy his sensual needs. I think the best and not so 'boring' place and building for him to be in each Sunday will be some entertainment centre.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 11, 2012 12:43 PM
To Another Small Fry,
I have spoken up strongly many times on this blog but I try to be careful about language. I think you are off limits. You can disagree with him but you don't need to make your racist mr white man remark. I think you owe him an apology. Are you out to rubbish this blog.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 11, 2012 12:56 PM
Dear Fair minded,
Of course we respect every individual's opinion. The fact that if one wants to make a comment here, he/she should be ready to accept the differences of opinions from the rest.
In my opinion, I believe you may have got the message wrong. Majority of us here are not against big churches or building of big churches. What we are saying is that the building should never never be the focus. Otherwise it would be like the tower of babel, and sadly I feel that's what is happening to ccc.
I definitely disagree with your point that, and I quote, "Big church building has it's place. Otherwise church will be very boring with small churches or no building like house church."
Remember how the church started in Acts? What do you mean by a church being boring if it's small? The focus point is whether a church is spirit-filled or not. A church may be full of many activities, but if it's not spirit-filled, it's no difference with any NGOs. Besides, the leadership of the church should ask themselves whether all these activities are for the glamour of people or for evangelism.
I'm very sad to know that until today, the main "message"/"sermon" Sundays after Sundays in Calvary Church is still giving & giving for ccc. The pastors & leadership of the church has lost their direction and are being clouded with this tower of babel of the 21st century.
To all who are still worshiping in Calvary Church, my prayer to you is that you will continue to seek the wisdom of the Holy Spirit. If you still have the thought that PG & the gangs must definitely be correct because they still have substantial supporters/followers, kindly also remember that until the day he died, Hitler also had supporters/followers.
God bless.
2 cents
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 11, 2012 1:25 PM
Fair Minded,
The question of whether a church is financially capable or not.
When embarking on a huge project, the local church is forced to sell its prize assets, forced to mortgage off its land , forced to enter into risky business arrangement, forced to beg and borrow heavily from banks, forced to pressure members constantly to make financial sacrifices, and impacts negatively on other ministries as well as build gigantic debts for the next generation to bear, then it definitely cannot afford it and is going way way beyond its means. And if they say they have faith, God will provide, why then is all this pressure necessary.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 11, 2012 4:38 PM
Dear David of April 11,
I respect your opinion of being illogical. Put your reasonings to New Creation Church in Singapore, I believe they are building something much much bigger than CCC. We are talking of 500 millions Singapore money yet the members fully support it. Why? Because Christ is glorified not necessary in the building but the heart that matter not under compulsion but cheerfully giving. For Crystal Cathedral, remember thousands have touched through the ministry in the past and the building sold to the another church are going to touch life again, I can't see your reasoning of wastefulness in term of finance.
Fair minded.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 11, 2012 5:21 PM
To Anonymous April 11, 2012 12:56 PM
I don’t know what you mean by off limits. Perhaps something I wrote had hit on your nerves.
Mr/Ms Anonymous, LET ME MAKE IT CLEAR, I HAD NO INTENTION WHATSOEVER TO MEAN IT TO BE RACIST. If you think it is racist you have your right to your opinion. Anyway I am not sure whether he’s an Englishman, American, mixed or otherwise.
MY SINCERE APOLOGIES TO HIM IF MY REMARKS HAD SEEM TO BE RACIST.
Mr/Ms Anonymous, you wrote in very strong language…..’Are you out to rubbish this blog.’
I leave it to the wise and discerning administrator, bloggers and readers of this blog to decide who is really out to r……… this blog. Cos I try to be careful with my words too and the word r……. is not very proper.
Posted by ANOTHER SMALL FRY to Calvary Today 2 at April 11, 2012 6:02 PM
What does it means to say God is glorified? If a gay pastor preach and someone impress and respond in saying "Amen", does this means God is glorified and God has favor on the gay pastor? The asnwer is no. God doesn't want the glory that comes from wicked person. God does not chase after glory, the way PG chase after glamour. God has integrity.
Now, do you think God is glorified from a mega building that built in a Freemason style, built with ill-gotten money that pressure and rob the joy of many, built on basis of lust for fame and power; built by ignore God's prophecy and sack 400 concern members, built on a wicked spirit of dictator behind every corner of activities and drives follower with guilt of tithes teachings? God does not want a kind of glory comes from a wicked spirit. When someone claim God is glorified through Ps Sun's secular career from City Harvest Church, it is an excuse. The fact is many stumbled. Those number claimed to be saved via her concert is lies. THey are saved via individual sharing of the gospel, but restraint from praying the sinner prayer so that they must only pray such under Ps Sun to claim those number under her ministry. Do you think God does not see all these crafty ways to gain approval? I know it cause i experience it. Same thing for many cases. Do you think God impress with your CCC just because many people will attend it? No, God in fact shun it, because it is never His way nor His will. PG stumble many CHristians, it is better that he tie a rock on his neck and throw into the sea; otherwise, the judgment is even greater.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 11, 2012 8:09 PM
God's eyes are on the sparrow, not the Freemason's achitecture.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 11, 2012 8:10 PM
Keep praying that God removes SP who is misleading the sheep, scattering them, and letting Satan devour them. Pray imprecatory prayers to save the members, not save the church itself. One church I know of the pastor dropped dead behind the pulpit on a Sunday morning. God was merciful to us in our church. When we were having more problems than we could handle, crisis after crisis, finally God took SP and AS from us. They resigned. Now we are slowly picking ourselves up with a pastor who loves God and loves and respects us. Pray SP out of CC!!!
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 12, 2012 2:30 AM
Well, if CCC has problems like Crystal Cathedral, then sell it off to another religious organization and pay off the debts so the next generation will not have to bear the consequences. No CCC no headache. Let another church run it and touch life. For the spirit of freemason, just cast the spirit out of the place and clean the place after all christian claim that their God is more powerful than any other spirit.
From Simple minded
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 12, 2012 5:33 AM
"THE AOG IS OPERATED BY PIMPS AND PROSTITUTES"
The above comment was spoken through a microphone by a certain law lecturer in town.[ subject was related to religious offences in this country]The auditorium was packed to the maximum- almost 600 people all preparing for the coming exams.Many Muslims in tudungs,many Christians from various denominations,and quite a number of Indians.There were also many Christian students from Sabah and Sarawak.The whole auditorium burst out in laughter- except those from AOG churches-when the lectures was over- there was this Christian group leaving the hall silently-downcast with pink faces.
There are rumours that this lecturer was from an AOG background sometime before.But of course,we have never dared to ask him personally.He is an excellent lecturer,able to articulate and explain complex legal doctrines well- a rare gifting.So far Christian students who try to get his goodwill all failed.He just gives you a blank look and you have to get out of his way.
WE discovered the rumours have some basis-but how come he is like this now?
We as a Christian fellowship here want to say this to all who hold positions of authority within the church heirarchy--dont be high handed in dealing with people-like the suspension of the 400 at CC.
I have been a Christian long enough to know that no matter what religious Book we read- humans are slow to forgive.And the hurt/wounded will have their vendettas sooner or later/.After praying and discussion as a fellowship-we decided to share our concerns here.We suspect that this man has been humiliated by the AOG system and he is paying back- humiliation for humiliation".
At CC there are 400 people whose feathers have been ruffled.The birth and continued existence of this blog raises many questions.And reading the contents of this blog-we suspect there are also many angry voices asking for justice.
Remedy the situation and let the healing begin- or there may come a day(definitely)when there will be more people out here in the secular professional settings venting their frustration.And by then- there is nothing you can do.
SP-please for Gods sake-step down.You have made a mistake and you must take responsibility for it.
Of course- with your ability with the Holy Bible- you can explain away your actions using some bible verse.But look inot the mirror and say to yourself-" Not everyone out there is stupid enough to believe my explanations"
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 12, 2012 4:04 PM
SIGNIFICANCE OF EASTER SUNDAY "LOST" TO "CCC FUND APPEAL" (AKA CC WORSHIPS MORMON)
We wish to echo the same anger and disappointment of our various fellow bloggers regarding the contents of the Special Morning Service at the National Hockey Stadium at Bukit Jalil on Easter Sunday.
The morning started beautifully as we rose early at 5.00 am to pray, basking in holy worship, valuing the great sacrifices that our Lord Jesus made on the Cross at Calvary, soaking in real appreciation of His Love for all mankind !
Then we rushed to Bukit jalil to attend the Easter Sunday Service. Once there, we waited anxiously in anticipation of God's Word coming alive.
We were very greatly disappointed about the sermon delivered by SP1. While it started on the right note about the stone rolled away, the remaining message immediately put off most, if not all of us who made much effort to attend, - because it turned into another SALES TALK by PG1 about giving, giving and giving to ccc fund !!!!! PG1 got mad when the crowd present (numbering only hundreds and occupying parts of only one wing/section - (the other three sections were totally empty of people) ignored him, no amens, no clapping, ominous silence, some nodding and even sleeping, some yakking away,others texting,(very boring, non spirit filled, satanic), in the whole stadium
Don't you PG1 have even a bit of decency for God ? Can't you respect and keep holy Easter Sunday WITHOUT TALKING ABOUT MONEY ? To rub salt to our wounds, you apparently assigned your best buddy (sifu) Guynes to deliver Part 2 of the Money Talk.
By the way, PG1 why did you invite Guynes to our Easter Sunday service as the special guest speaker ? Please keep in mind we remember and have not forgiven him for his harsh unacceptable unChristian treatment of our fellow cc members during the cc AGMs and cc EGMs, like imposing unfair terms and conditions for members to ask questions, to speak at the microphones, like switching of the microphones when members were still making their statements, like threatening to expel members from the sanctuary (meeting venue) etc.
Btw, is he on a sponsored holiday here again ? Would it not be very nice and lucky for a person to have a sponsored summer holiday in the Far East ? Especially when the air fares, hotel suites/rooms, meals, travel arrangements, other expenses, etc, etc, etc are all paid for. right ? So what's wrong helping the poor, right ? And talking of money, is possibly the FIRST or SECOND COLLECTION for your invited guest's love offering ? The reason behind the second collection was not truly given. remember ?
We the congregation don't want such kind of "guest speakers" invited by cc leadership. We find their presence undesirable, esp since we worry about the strong possibility that they may pose a wrong role model to our children and grand children.
BTW, fyi our brother blogger Another Small Fry, the mysterious white man you mentioned is we believe the one and only Guynes. But whether or not he deserves the "reverend", we leave it to you to figure out after you have checked him out. lastly, please ask PG1 why he so suddenly left the "grand stand area" and the field when his buddy Guynes was still addressing the congregation ? Is it not considered very rude and insulting behaviour by the host ?
PG1 NO THANKS for ruining our Easter Sunday. The over ordering and over supply of food allocated for the congregation and visitors for the very much smaller turnout sickened us when we think of the gross wastage. We should have gone to other church presentation and be blessed there.
We won't attend PG1's nest year's Easter Sunday service - you can bet on it !!!
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 13, 2012 9:20 AM
RESIGN OR NOT ?
Today, let us play the game of GUESSING.
Imagine the following scenarios :
IF ... repeat IF, all these glorious years (even decades), YOU and YOUR family are all enjoying such rich and famous lifestyles, earning over inflated salary figures, accompanied by big fat bonuses, perks,benefits, allowances and others, living in spacious amply decorated bungalows in high end residential enclaves, driving luxury cars, wearing branded attires, eating delicious food at exclusive restaurants, travelling on fully sponsored regular overseas trips as individuals and as family members, enjoying fully sponsored education plans for YOUR children and grand children, not worrying about the price tags of whatever that catches YOUR whims and fancies whenever YOU go shopping, regularly renovating and upgrading your homes, increasing your personal and family's wealth by ever growing investments, etc, etc, etc.
would YOU suddenly give all this up by resigning from your powerful position ?
Now tell us do you think Ass Pee will resign IF he were YOU ? YES or NO ?
We think NO. We think it's so hard to resign when you are trapped like a prisoner, in the greed for personal wealth and family wealth. until you are strangled by its vices. How ironic.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 13, 2012 9:44 AM
Hi blogger,
Any pictures to show the poor turn out at the Easter service? I think this will help to reaffirm your allegation. For the sack of those not there, may be next time try to record the event especially the empty seats, people not paying attention, etc. and post it for everyone to see and comments. This will make this blog even more interesting. What do you think?
From Unconvinced
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 13, 2012 12:27 PM
I AM A VERY RICH PASTOR
Yeap!!You heard it right.The Church Board handles the finances so there is no room for any suspicions of financial mismanagement.To be honest-the desire to build a big church is sometimes there-but I know the Board will never approve of it.
My family and I sleep peacefully at night because I have no credit card debts.I still have my house and car to pay- but the church pays me enough and my wife works so there is enough for everyone. Once a week our family eats at a local restaurant UNLESS one of the sheep wants to "belanja" us - which we get invited now and then. We do not live a stressful life.
Its Blessed to serve God and be a blessing to others.Our days are very few on this earth and soon we will be gone.And I certainly don't want to cause the church to be in debt because of my wrong decisions.I wonder how SP manages to sleep at night- with his predicament and the financial wrangle he is in.Quite a few Pastors within the AOG think he is backslidden and does not hear the voice of Christ within anymore.
WHAT SP AND TEAM HAS DONE IS A REPROACH to THE ENTIRE AOG.BUT SINCE I ONLY PASTOR A MEDIUM SIZED CHURCH- I BETTER KEEP MY MOUTH SHUT. MY WIFE IS SITTING BESIDES ME AND ORDERED THAT I STOP RIGHT N0W. GOD BLESS YOU ALL.
Yes,I am a very rich pastor but certainly am glad that I am not wearing SP's shoes.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 13, 2012 2:58 PM
Don't you PG1 have even a bit of decency for God? Can't you respect and keep holy Easter Sunday WITHOUT TALKING ABOUT MONEY
..........................................
Comment on the above
Its obvious that SP is diseased and embittered.He is a madman right now BUT I AM QUITE SURPRISED THAT THERE ARE STILL DUMB SHEEP SITTING AT HIS FEET!!!Listen CC Church- stand up and go home-flee,because SP is determined to scrap the last penny out of you and he just couldnt be bothered about the financial condition of the sheep.[and be extra careful when that salesman- RY-when he makes another money appeal.If he really feels that CCC is from God he can sell his brand new CRV and give the $$$ to the church as a sacrifice- but we know it will never happen- because he is another backslidden AOG so called Rev waving a Holy Bible to do his sales tactics.Christian -- be careful with your hard earned money.Pray before parting with it.And if you see SP or RY on stage- ask God for protection from this gifted AOG liars.OR SAFER STILL- FLEE TO YOUR HOMES.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 13, 2012 3:12 PM
Btw, is he on a sponsored holiday here again
........................
Of Course Guynes trip was sponsored. You think SP is going to take out the $$ from his own pockets? or RY?? It is the sheeps money so he can spend it freely- what is there to worry? He has a Lapdog Board who will obey without question and they seem to have a dog like devotion to him. CC- Behold your King!!!
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 13, 2012 3:17 PM
We were very greatly disappointed about the sermon delivered by SP1…
…who made much effort to attend…
Yes, we as a family also made the extra effort to attend, getting up before 5am (even setting not one but TWO alarms becos we really did not want to miss it since Easter is such a wonderful and significant event, TO MARK THE RESURRECTION OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST.
I definitely agree with you that for once the leaders of cc should really respect, keep holy the special day and FOCUSSED ON THE RESURRECTION OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST.
Like you, we were terribly disappointed too.
However the presentation helped to cushion some of the disappointment. PERHAPS THE TOP LEADERS OF THE CHURCH AND BOD CAN LEARN SOMETHING ABOUT WHAT IT MEANS TO PRAISE AND LIFT THE NAME OF JESUS NOT ONLY FROM THE CHOIR, KIDSCAT AND CREATIVE ARTS TEAM BUT ALSO FROM ALL INVOLVED IN THE PRODUCTION. I understand they worked tirelessly, trained and sacrificed time, effort and money for each and every production.
They had to pay for the CDs, score sheets and T-shirts (full price and not cheap either). If the production is held outside eg. at the MCA building, Jalan Ampang, they also had to pay for the parking which is not cheap. I understand from them, for 2011 Easter and Christmas presentation at MCA, RY was in charge. Through pastor CL, some requested for a special parking rate as they had to be there (practices, rehearsal etc etc ) many times, each time can exceed RM5.00.
As expected, RY didn’t even bother! Cos they (production team including the choir members) had to pay full for every trip. Of course he (RY) parked FREE in front of the building) and if I was not mistaken BOD also free parking.
I checked this out with the security at MCA who told me that area free parking for those listed by the organizer.
Thanks brother for the info. It did cross my mind that it could be Guynes but as I was at an angle(couldn’t get a close view) and quite far away, I was not sure; hence I didn’t quote the name. I didn’t want to get it wrong and be accused of not checking my facts.
Sori brother, I would expect a “reverend” to portray a very high degree of Christian behavior much higher than an ordinary preacher or pastor. AND THAT INCLUDES HUMILITY AND DEFINITELY CHRISTIAN AND CHRIST-LIKE INTERACTION WITH FELLOW CHRISTIANS. Not only to those who invited him. Definitely not switching off microphones!!!
I had attended countless AGMs, EGMs both government(including one in which the Chief Secretary to the Government was present) and private sectors. AND NOT ONCE HAD I COME ACROSS A CHAIRPERSON SWITCHING OFF THE MICROPHONE OF ANOTHER PERSON SPEAKING.
Btw, looking at how close August 2012 is, cc members can expect more ‘shocks’ (after the RM14,000,000.00 drawdown and calling of EGM to sell the 5 bungalows).
CC MEMBERS PLEASE REMEMBER GOD GAVE US A DISCERNING MIND
LET US USE THEM WISELY AND NOT DISAPPOINT GOD
GOD BLESS
ANOTHER SMALL FRY
Posted by ANOTHER SMALL FRY to Calvary Today 2 at April 13, 2012 4:05 PM
WHY 2012 EASTER SUNDAY VENUE NOT BEING CCC?
WHY THE DOUBLE STANDARDS ?
Being our right to ask, we demand to know why the Easter Sunday venue was chosen as the National Hockey Stadium, Bukit Jalil ? Why did PG1 decided to choose the National Hockey Stadium, Bukit jalil ?
Why not CCC, which is located just further down the road - ALSO IN BUKIT JALIL ? Why need to waste thousands of Ringgit Malaysia renting the National Hockey Stadium, especially when the monetary constraints are so tightly felt nowadays in cc ? If you could hold the corner stone ceremony and accompanying tea break refreshments, why couldn't you do the same for the Easter Sunday presentation and refreshments at your highly proclaimed ccc ?
What is the problem ?
Why the double standards ?
Why waste the church congregation hard earned money ?
Why ? Why ? Why ?
For personal selfish reasons ? Pride ? Perhaps need to show off ? maybe ashamed for members to see the reality of "rate of progress" at ccc so far ? Possibly worried members start checking facts with site workers ?
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 13, 2012 4:51 PM
IS THERE A WAY WHERE WE CAN POST PICTURES ON THIS BLOG? A PICTURES PAINTS A THOUSAND WORDS.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 13, 2012 5:08 PM
SP is just the tip of the iceberg.There are other AOG maniacs on the loose occupying the church seats but are very hurtful- if you dare to cross them.When I see any religious man-Swami,Imam,Monk,or even AOG Dr.Rev.Pastor-I am reminded of a Signboard I once saw in California- "RATTLESNAKES- KEEP A RESPECTFUL DISTANCE"
Reverends are just ordinary people who have risen up the heirarchy of the religious system-some by connecting craftily with the right people.Most religious systems of this world are set up by Satan.This is his favourite turf.It was the religious people who handed over Jesus to Pilate to be crucified- and not Satan worshippers,drunkards or drug addicts.You see- religious people can be very deadly-including women.Today they carry around a big Bible and some can continue to speak very well- even though it is plainly eveident that Satan has ensnared them.SP is an example right before our eyes.
And when religious demons strike- they can appear very righteous.One even talks about living in the "holy of holies".These people have been so long within a church- they have become institutionalized - like prisoners who have been incarcerated for a very long time.Its already a challenge trying to keep our sanity working in a secular setting-but these super spiritual people are "living in the 7th heavens and have direct access to God- Face up to it -lah. This is all Pentecostal Crap with a capital "C". This is the blunt truth.
Jesus was able to preach- but was also able to talk to a prostitute.In fact he was described as a friend of sinners and a winebibber.I have great reverence to my Lord and Saviour --but I will take the AOG Rev. and his portrayal of himself with a pinch of salt--
LAMENTATIONS- CC at present
Her gates are sunk into the ground; he hath destroyed and broken her bars: her king and her princes are among the Gentiles: the law is no more; her prophets also find no vision from the LORD.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 13, 2012 6:22 PM
Reply to Anonymous, April 13, 2012 5:08 PM
You cannot post pictures in the Comment section.
If you have any pictures that you wish to share with others in this blog, you can send them via e-mail to calvarytoday@gmail.com
God bless.
Thanks for your info.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 13, 2012 8:24 PM
Its true the AOG is a man-made organisation where the Pastoral system is abusive & idolatrous. These men who called themselves "pastors" exploited christianity to gain wealth and lived comfortably with fat salaries & all kinds of benefits gained from the tithes & offerings given by members. Is this the way they spend God's money. Have not the pastors of CC actually "robbed" God?
As unbelievable as it is most people want to hear lies instead of truth. Just like the worshippers in CC, they simply REFUSE to listen to the truth. In their stuborness, they end up serving the purpose of satan instead of truly serving Christ.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 14, 2012 8:28 PM
Why is it the AOG pastors salary is always shrouded in mystery? Sure nothing to hide?
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 15, 2012 2:56 PM
One of the common reason why the so called hardcore supporter of PG refuse to listen to the truth is Fear....fear of being axed and lost their privilege in church, fear of being ex-communicated by their friends who are also hardcore supporters of PG, fear of PG's scolding, fear of labeled as outcast by the APs, fear of being label as heresy, and fear of having no beenfit from the built CCC. It is not faith that keep them there, it is fear that bound them there.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 15, 2012 5:07 PM
Why do some AOG pastors insist that pastors do not have a retirement age, to the extent that some insist that the mandatory retirement age be removed from the church's constitution.
Even the Levites have a retirement age set for them : " But at the age of fifty years they shall RETIRE FROM SERVICE in the work and NOT work any more. They may, however, assist their brothers in the tent of meeting." (Nu 8:25-26)Is the AOG pastors' calling more sacred or special than the Levites, that they cannot be retired. Says who? Why is it when it comes to money they never fail to stress that all christians must obey the levitical laws of tithes. ( Remember the often quoted verses in Malachi) But why then when it comes to retirement the levitical laws don't apply to them? Can some pastors out there please explain.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 15, 2012 7:29 PM
What do you think will happen now onwards?
Will CCC built? Will the people return and forget about what PG did?
Will CC bankrupt from the huge debt?
What AOG institution will do with all the bad news circulated among the nation on how bad are AOG pastors?
Are the Christians from AOG begin to shift toward otehr denominations?
What PG and family will do after CC bankrupt?
What the APs and deacons will do?
Will CC continue in bankrupcy? Who will be the next SP?
Will God intervene with a revival?
What happen to the 400 members who sacked?
What are the view of overseas pastors?
WHat will happen to future Christian community if CCC and PG succeeded? And what will happen if it failed?
Will the teaching of tithes continue when CC bankrupt? Will AOG continue teaching tithes despite the truth exposed?
Will the AOG Bible School syllabus revised to cancel tithes teaching?
What will hapen to the empty shell of CCC if PG failed?
What kind of leaders will emerge after CC saga in this nation?
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 15, 2012 8:36 PM
There are worshippers who simply refused to accept truth and not willing to stand by God and His righteousness is because they regarded & treasured their long friendship & close relationship with PG1 PG2 and the pastors too deep & dear to severe. No! for all in the world, they would not sacrifice such friendship, its too much at stake, so they refuse to listen to the truth. In other words, they regard this friendship as more important than their friendship with God.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 16, 2012 8:36 AM
We have posted an email in The Berita Calvary, which we received last Saturday whereby the writer have enclosed some photos of a church service in the interiors of Sarawak.
Pictures do speak a thousand words, and it is worth your time to take a look at what God is doing in our very own land of Sarawak.
The title of the article is : God continues to build His Church in East Malaysia
The link is : http://beritacalvary.blogspot.com/2012/04/this-is-email-we-received-from-someone.html
I saw the photos of AXED -TERUK showing Gods working in the interiors of Sarawak.What a sight to behold!!People sitting on benches to hear a sermon.No red carpets but only the hard ground beneath. RY should go and spend sometime with these folks and See Gods work instead of continuing with the usual begging and cheap talk about sacrificicial giving.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 16, 2012 3:57 PM
What's a touching scene of hungry Christians going to church for the word of God. No aircond and no complaints. See for yourself the pictures post by AXED -TERUK. 5,000 gathered together and no need of CCC building but hungry souls.
BTW, bloggers may be should consider posting more of such pictures to encourage.
"GO SARAWAK CHRISTIANS GO" Our prayers are with you.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 16, 2012 5:30 PM
Me and family just want to appreciate the contents of this blog. We have learned so many things here, and has been an eye opener for us although our pastor preaches against it and describes this blog as the devils tool to destroy the church. God bless you all.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 16, 2012 6:03 PM
To Calvary Today,
Have you able consider going to facebook for your fight against CC? I think this will reach to a wider audience.
From : Thinking outside the box
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 16, 2012 9:03 PM
Calvary Today Blog was not designed to fight against Calvary Church, KL but to disseminate relevant information and updates to Concerned members of the Church.
Calvary Today Blog was not designed to fight against Calvary Church, KL but to disseminate relevant information and updates to Concerned members of the Church.
.......................................
RESPONSE TO THE ABOVE
I don't think anyone out here is fighting against CC OR any other church.What we have been standing up for all this while is transparency in financial dealings,resisting high handed dealings of titled church demons and church wolves who abuse the sheep and get away with it-and who could not care less.
SP,his crew and other AOG leaders may seem unperturbed by the contents of this blog- but don't be deceived.Its a hogwash.
Lets all stand together in this.LET ALL THE AOG LEADERS HEAR THIS- ALL CHURCH ACCOUNTS MUST BE AUDITED AND PASTED ON THE CHURCH NOTICE BOARD FOR THE SHEEP TO SEE.IS THIS AN IMPOSSIBLE DEMAND? OR HAVE THEY SOMETHING TO HIDE?
Take for example- that salesman-RY-where did he get the $$ to buy a brand new CRV? How much is he getting really? Most of us can only afford to drive 2nd hand moderate cars but these church devils continue to stand up and shamelessly beg for more money- "sacrificial giving". Do you see them live a simple lifestyle? Never mind what they preach- what is before our eyes??
These are the calibre of the modern day Ananias and Caiaphas- they make a living out of religion.Its no more a calling but a career now for them. Maybe they started well- but now have developed the Judas syndrome. Until today nobody has been able to explain why Judas took his own path.I don't think $$ was the only issue for him.He had been nibbling at the church money for a long time.Maybe the 2 or 4 silver pieces was not enough.30 pieces would have seemed big money in his eyes then.But that's what he did- and that's what is recorded before God.
The sense of community at CC has all gone to the dogs and SP and crew must take responsibility for it.The fear of God has left them and there the only thing to fear about these church rats is their own craftiness and manipulations.
BLOGGERS- WE ARE NOT FIGHTING CC- BUT WE HAVE DECIDED TO STAND UP AND SAY-"ENOUGH IS ENOUGH"
God Bless You all.
Posted in CT2 @ April 17, 2012 11:25 AM
This is an email we received. Please refer to the photo posted above on the right hand side for reference.
Dear Calvary Today,
Just to share ...this book title "Commercialized Religion Contaminated Christianity" caught my atttention
at the bookshop and also because of the price of this book only costs RM12, therefore i bought it, and to
my surprise i found alot of valueable insight on the truth perspective of "Religion, Church & Kingdom Living" ...
a very good book that worth reading ... !
Does anyone out there know the current status of the new CCC building? Has the church voted to sell off its bungalows? -tsk-tsk--
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 17, 2012 3:49 PM
To Anonymous April 17, 2012 11.25am,
For most churches, they do not post their financial statement on the noticeboard. If they did, usually the summary statement. I think if the members have any query, they can always see the Treasurer for details statements for explanation.
Have CC post a summary financial statement? If not, you always have the right as an official member to view the financial statement in details in the church office unless they have something to hide. So it is more an administrative matter rather than integrity issue.
From : Observer of another church (Not AOG church)
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 17, 2012 7:32 PM
I heard that when CC initially allowed the TTG to view the Missions A/cs on 3rd May 2008, God revealed that PG had "moved" RM 200,000 per annum in 2006 & 2007 which apparently certain members of the Missions Committee, as well as certain Deacons, disputed that there were such amounts "moved" to PG's personal ministry (Calvary International Ministries aka CIM).
Then when the TTG met with the full Board of Deacons on 31st May 2008, the newly appointed Deacon (PT) announced that only a sum of RM 1.1m had been "moved" to PG's CIM as he has personally viewed the audited CIM A/cs.
Finally, on 21st June 2008, when the TTG were allowed to view PG's audited CIM A/cs, God revealed that, from Sep 2002 to Dec 2007, PG had actually moved a total of RM 1.9m quietly from CC's coffers to his personal ministry (CIM).
It seems that CC's Treasurer (ER) had agreeed to have a 4th meeting with the TTG but, unfortunately, this was called off by ER on the excuse that there would be an EGM on 15th Aug 2008 to explain everything. However, we now know that, PG had "conscripted" his American buddy (DG) to chair the EGM where for the 1st time in CC's history, Voting Members (VMs) were only allowed to ask 2 questions each & Associate Memebers (AMs) were not allowed to ask any question at all, plus microphones were switched off upon PG's hand signals. Does this sound like a church EGM?
Perhaps, the real reason why the 4th meeting was aborted was because it had finally dawned on PG & the Deacons that each time the TTG viewed the A/cs, God would reveal more hidden misappropriations to them - first, it was 2 x RM 0.2m = RM 0.4m, 4 weeks later, it was RM 1.1m & another 3 weeks later, it was RM 1.9m. So was RM 1.9m the full & final figure? All of us can only guess as only PG & God knows the Truth.
Members of the universal church aka the Body of Christ, may God help you to see the Truth & judge for yourselves how devious PG & Deacons have been all these years (including finally "sacking" the 400 VMs & AMs in early 2009).
As for me, I rest my case; 'cos I have done my best & I now leave God the rest, for it is His Battle to restore TTG (Truth, Transparency & Godly Governance) back in CC, not mine. Amen!!!
Posted by CIMgate to Calvary Today 2 at April 18, 2012 1:08 AM
To Anonymous April 17, 2012 7:32PM
That's the problem. They avoid showing details to avoid discussions, scrutiny and questioning at the AGM. Why do they have this fear if they can explain? If companies can print details of their annual reports, is asking to print just a few hundred copies of the detailed church accounts asking too much. ( How many sen to photo copy,section 17 very cheap) If that is too much, why not print for those members who request for them and to be distributed days before the meeting. And why cannot even post on the notice board.
This is far from being the simple administrative issue which you claimed. It is a condescending style of the leadership in taking members for granted and telling them how money is spent is the prerogative of the leaders and little concern of the members. That is why they tell you to sit in front of the Treasurer in the church office if you insist on knowing details but you cannot take out of the office for study and discuss with other members. Why cannot? This is exactly the style of one AOG church of which I was once a member. There is little discussion at the AGM because of lack of details as only the financial summary is presented and the purpose of the meeting is just to approve the accounts. If any member wants to know details, they can call at the church office during office hours( meaning you have to take off from work) and you sit directly in front of the pastor in charge of finance and budget, who will then hand you the accounts to be read in his presence ONLY. And of course he pretends to be courteous but from the body language you know he is not happy and sees you as an intruder and a trouble maker. With so much trouble to go through and in such 'hostile' office atmosphere who wants to bother to check the accounts.
For your information, many churches do print details of financial statements for members attending the AGM as well as put them on notice board. For leaders who don't furnish details of financial statements, what do they expect members to do? Endorse and approve blindly the financial accounts for which they cannot see or discuss at the AGM. And who says it's not an integrity issue. Even Billy Graham's Assoc publicly publish their detailed accounts about how they spent the donations they receive showing forth their accountability, transparency and integrity to their donors. Of course it's something the money grabbing prosperity preachers won't do.
NO YOU ARE WRONG. IT'S NOT A SIMPLE ADMINISTRATIVE ISSUE. IN THE LIGHT OF THE NUMEROUS CASES OF MISUSE OF MONEY AND SCANDALS BY PASTORS AND LEADERS IN CHURCHES WORLDWIDE, IT BECOMES EVEN MORE PERTINENT FOR ALL CHURCHES TO OPENLY DISPLAY ACCOUNTABILITY, TRANSPARENCY,FINANCIAL HONESTY AND INTEGRITY. AND YOU CANNOT DO THAT BY KEEPING YOUR ACCOUNTS TO YOURSELF UNDER LOCK AND KEYS AND REQUIRES AN APPOINTMENT FOR SOMEONE TO VIEW IT.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 18, 2012 10:52 AM
If not, you always have the right as an official member to view the financial statement in details in the church office unless they have something to hide. So it is more an administrative matter rather than integrity issue.
.....................................
MY THOUGHTS ON THE ABOVE
HAHAHAHAHAH.....
PRACTISING ACCOUNTANT
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 18, 2012 11:27 AM
DON'T BE FOOLED
- NO HOME RUN YET
DO NOT BET ON IT !
Contrary to what Ass Pee brainwashes us to believe, the construction of the mega complex ccc is far from nearing completion. (In the rush to complete before the crucial deadline posed by the AOG World Conference, we hope the structural soundness and public safety is not compromised, especially since the Project Director is NOT a professional engineer and WITHOUT years of of working experience in the construction sector, who happened to be the senior pastor's own son) We are FAR FROM HOME RUN. Don't be so fast to congratulate each other that the worst is over. Don't pat each other on the shoulder, thinking that we have made it, that we survived the worst, that we championed our noble cause.
Do not be deceived by the "YOU FEEL GOOD" deception, promoted by his double meaning sales talk.
Sit back and contemplate what he actually said. He mentioned that the contractor promised that the physical construction could even be finished even by August - provided the money to pay them comes in fast, faster....
Btw, did he bother to tell you how the physical construction had costed todate ? Why not ? Are you not important enough to provide this information ?
And did he bother to tell or even hint to you just how much the "internal part" is going to cost the cc church congregation ? Again another "no" ?
"ASK - AND YOU WILL BE GIVEN 111"
Peegee asked you all to give, give and give - you all obeyed !!!!
WOW !!!
Such obedient sheep !!!!
AND NO QUESTIONS ASKED !!!
No wonder Peegee once boasted about how good a leader he really is ! And he is such a "good speaker".
Perhaps he could soon come out with a book ""HOW TO BE A MULTI BILLIONAIRE - WITHOUT REALLY TRYING". We think many of the AOG pastors would rush to buy them hot from the press, maybe even camp overnight outside the book store the night before sales launch.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 18, 2012 1:41 PM
NOT FUNNY, PRACTICING ACCOUNTANT! You cannot even spell, so maybe you don't know how to add or subtract, either.
This whole scandalous business grieves many people, but God mostly!
The Bible says there will be no thieves in heaven. (1Cor 6:10) Seems to me that a lot of CC leaders, including the SP, AP are in danger of hell fire!!!
NO LAUGHING MATTER!!! SURE DON'T WANT YOU PRACTICING ON ME!
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 18, 2012 2:17 PM
CCC - HOW ARE THE PROBABLE ENDINGS ?
Choose your own possible endings or better still create your own possibilities.
Version 1
The end of the world as we know it came so unexpectedly - as predicted in the Holy Bible !
The rapture came and ALL Christians were caught up into the heavens.
The complete date of cc suddenly became so irrelevant ! So too was the stress to think of ways to finance this humongous mega complex project.
Version 2
CCC was completed on time, in fact before the deadline. Ass Pee got his full share of self glory, basking in international fame, being much sought as the outstanding model of the new breed of AOG leaders. Countless images of ccc were circulated round the world in news media. News prints, magazines sold millions carrying the top story line on ccc and its architectural achievements. Christians flocked from all the continents to worship in its modern splendour. Tourists too made it a point to visit it when they come to Malaysia.
Version 3
CCC ground to a complete full stop, due to an oversight by the leadership - due to diminshing and eventual lack of funds to fiance the remaining part of the project. TOTT (Turn Off The Tap) - an extremely effective tool, (wielded by those who united to oppose the evil regime under the satanic cult leader Ass Pee) finally finished off the symbol of what some said cult worship.
The church was overburdened into bankruptcy by the ever snowballing debts. Too many from the congregation migrated elsewhere to other churches. In the following confusion, the pastors disappeared into oblivion, merging with the faceless masses. No further news about them.
Postscript
The abandoned ccc mega complex was finally sold off at a below market price by a mainland China Arab billionaire, converting it into an "International Standard Entertainment Centre", offering online gambling, personal health services, reflexology services, escort services and the like.
Version 4
After the successful hosting of the AOG World Conference, Ass Pee tendered his resignation letter. He and his family migrated to US, where he lived a good life to a ripe old age.
Version 5
An earthquake measuring 9.3 hit Bukit Jalil, more specifically at a mega complex called ccc. The various buildings were seriously damaged. Witnesses among survivors said the buildings rocked violently, rushing out into the nearby open air car park. Some were seen kneeling or lying dazed while others were praying hard. Injured victims were rushed to various hospitals and medical centres. Some vehicles were also damaged. The number of deaths have not been finalised. Names of other affected victims have also not been released. Families, relatives and
friends had been anxiuosly awaiting this information from the authorities.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 18, 2012 2:21 PM
YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO ASK ABOUT THE CHURCH ACCOUNTS - ADVICE GIVEN TO CC CONGREGATION BY LAWYER APPOINTED BY SENIOR PASTOR.
SO WE ARE SUPPOSED TO SHUT UP AND GIVE CHEERFULLY AND SACRIFICIALLY.
UNDERSTAND ?
OR NOT ?
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 18, 2012 2:24 PM
TO ALL AXED- TERUK
Sigh. It has all happend before.Sure you feel slighted,disrected and abused by the treatment handed out to you but I assure you at present there is no AOG Pastor who can stand up and address the abuses in the system.There is one thing you must not expect from these leaders- and that is justice.
These pastors will just gang up on you."Birds of a feather flock together,so do pigs and swine."
Of course, if you are the $$$$$"yau cheen,yau meng"$$$$ then the situation will be different.This time you hear phrases like "special pastoral care,special prayers for you,God has put a special burden in my heart for you,I made intercession for you this morning."And you will also get special responsibilities,like getting invited to sit on the church Board.And if you have some vices sticking on you- no worries- there will be special house visits for you.
Of course,to get all the above attention,you must park your Mercedes where it will be plainly visible to these church leaders.
However, if you are not fortunate to have the above - then you might get booted out for raising issues - AND THERE IS REALLY NO ONE OUT THERE WHO CAN ADDRESS THE ISSUE.
THAT IS ONE OF THE REASONS FOR THE BIRTH OF THIS BLOG. The style of secular politican leadership has crept into the church unawares.And Servanthood has been slapped on the face and ordered to sit in the corner.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 18, 2012 2:49 PM
In the name of transparency and accountability, some members are going overboard by questioning every details whether the amount is small or big as if majority is wrong only they are right even after details explanation are given. So AGM dragged on unnecessarily till the wee hours of the night and no solution in sight. Probably the solution is like in a democratic country where the political party do their campaigning and get the majority to their side and when voting time come the candidates get elected and kick out the leadership and restore back to what they want. If you want to see changes you need the support of majority just like in an election.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 18, 2012 10:05 PM
DOUBLE STANDARDS - WORLD OF HYDE VS JEKYLL
The false world (created by the Devil himself) that enslaves PeeGee's mindset, which in return diligently churns out volumes of lies, half truths and outright deceptions - which in turn brainwashes his hard core followers, among the Deacons, pastors, church staff, other support staff and lay leaders.
Such unceasing stream of evil thoughts, commission of harmful actions, devious acts of omissions, diabolical intentions, all help bring about a fire of utter destruction and condemnation via this sinful nature, totally alien from God's Love.
All these factors set the stage for the World of Double Standards that PeeGee and hos gang aim to perfect over time. Perhaps it explains why so many gullible people among the congregation fall into the confusion over times when he acts like the good Mr Hyde - and sometimes tend to overlook instances he behaves like a rogue monster bullying others when he turns Mr Jekyll !!! A very dangerous split personality situation - with hurtful consequences to especially the dumb sheep still under his evil spell.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 19, 2012 8:27 AM
WELCOME ONLY THE FILTHY RICH
We totally agree with the observations by blogger TO ALL AXED TERUK, the cult leader of cc only have eyes and ears for the filthy rich. If you were dressed like a tycoon, three piece suit, branded necktie, polished branded shoes,at the entrance/exit doors, the senior pastor would very enthusiastically shake your hands, maybe even personally invite you and family to lunch/dinner/special functions at the vip TABLES. However, if you wear pasar malam or jeans and t shirts attire, be prepared he might even not bother to have eye contact with you all ! Even if he shakes your hand, it would be a mild social gesture.
After all, remember his famous words, "If you are not happy with this church, you can please leave now !" That's why so many hundreds, maybe thousands left or did not join cc ! that explains the so many empty seats in cc today.
Btw, what happemns when you suddenly strike it rich, filty rich like becoming a multi millionaire thru inheritance ? Would PeeGee overnight become your best buddy ?
Welcome to PeeGee's World of Double Standards !
Cheers.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 19, 2012 8:45 AM
"If you are not happy with this church,you can please leave now !"
.......................................
A RESPONSE TO THE ABOVE
Yes,quite a few of these AOG freaks belive that the church is their family property, so the important positions are filled with their own evil brood.Never mind whether their brood is qualified to fill the post.What matters is the bloodstock.The overseer of the CCC project at present is indeed laughable.Just guess who it is.
Worse than that- they make statements like the above. I have heard even worse venom from the pulpit,like for eg, " If you dont like this church, please get out!!" These are the demons that Jesus and Paul warned the early Christians about.
But I have never heard words like-"If you dont believe in tithing- its allright- you do what you feel led to do." In fact,I suspect we will never hear such a thing because the bottom line is .....you guessed right......"cheeen,cheen,cheen~!!'
But they will never openly admit it.These are not the real Reverends-they don't have pastoral hearts but are in fact deceptive,lost and abusive.
I can't imagine,Jesus or any of the early Apostles ever making such a statement to the sheep.
I tell you Christians out there- if you ever hear such a thing from your own high titled AOG Reverend- get up and go home.Its not a Pator talking but an unclean demon who has got hold of the pastor . Or the Pastor has lost the vision of the cross/or does not know the meaning of the Cross.Boot him out or flee to another church!!!
Grace & Peace to all of you.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 19, 2012 4:57 PM
OUR RIGHT TO ASK QUESTIONS,
OUR RIGHT TO HAVE THEM ANSWERED
We subscribe to the fact that the church leader himself confirms the holding of the church's AGM(s) - date, time and venue properly posted on the official bulletin board - for the attention of all members concerned. For obvious reasons, all concerned members (voting and associate) have the full right to attend and if any of them desire, can exercise the right to ask questions by addressing the questions to the relevant departmental head / pastoral staff or whomever the chairman deemed appropriate to answer such questions. If they cannot immediately answer such questions due to time constraints, need to compile detailed facts and figures, the two concerned parties then can makee a mutually agreeable appointment soonest, after the said AGM. We believe if the church leader(s) in mind had been diligently practising an open accountability, truth, brotherly trust, godly governance, and humble servanthood - all these socalled questioning would have been drastically reduced automatically - since the members are kept constantly in the know and constantly updated about the church and its future plans, step by step all the way.
However, sadly the present circumstances are far from the above mentioned direction and current leadership style.
So question time may drag on for hours perhaps due to unaccomodating and arrogant behavior of certain leaders during AGMs and EGMs.
it is our right to ask questions. it is also our right to expect detailed answers to our questions.
INSTEAD OF STONY SILENCE .... FROM THE LEADERS.
OTHER THAN GIVE YOUR MONEY, GIVE, GIVE, GIVE!!!!
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 19, 2012 4:58 PM
ASK GOD FOR DIRECTION
Voting members, please remember the future of the church is in our hands during the coming EGM. How you cast your vote - for or against - will determine the future of our church congregation - and the future of our children and grandchildren - being the representatives of future generations of church members.
Do you all remember that the very same church leadership, under Peegee, promised and assured us earlier that they would never sell our bungalows ?
Yet they are holding this EGM to reverse what they promised ! How can they contradict themselves so fast ? have you forgotten how all these five bungalows were bought with donations from the church congregation ? Over the years, these bungalows were used for various flourishing ministries, have you forgotten them so easily ?
Why can't they just sell off ccc ?
Let's vote on that motion instead of the five bungalows.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 19, 2012 5:11 PM
To Anonymous April 18,2012 10:05AM
"....So AGM dragged on ...till wee hours of the night...."
You make it sound like the AGM starts in morning and last into the mid night. What an exaggeration. Never ever heard of such thing happening, not even in Baptist churches known for the outspokenness of members. If it drags on that long, must be something seriously wrong with the accounts or that the integrity of the pastors and leaders are in question making members suspicious and want to dig up everything. Some pastors and leaders just want to rush and bulldozed through the accounts and get it passed through quickly. AGM is a serious affair, held only once a year and you want it over in a jiffy. Just make a mockery of it. Might as well have no AGM and just authorise the pastor to approve it.
If there was an OPEN DISPLAY of financial accountability, transparency and integrity shown all year round, such detailed scrutiny by members into finances of the church would not have been necessary.
And what political parties are you talking about in the church. This is not about some political power struggle in the church but of members showing serious concern about the integrity of the church's financial management. Whoever is the pastor or leader makes no difference. They are all equally required to openly display financial accountability, transparency and integrity.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 19, 2012 5:45 PM
Referring to Anonymous April 18, 11:27am and Anonymous April 18, 2:17pm. In British English, "practice" is a noun and "practise" is a verb. Words like honour, rumour, harbour in English, are honor, rumor, harbor in American. So, it is "practising accountant and not practicing accountant.
We are taught British English. The misunderstanding comes when many of today's young have their tertiary education in America.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 19, 2012 8:51 PM
Can't wait to see what the outcome of the EGM tomorrow. I think it is going to be a lot of fire work. Hopefully it would not drag on too long like what one of the bloggers said "till wee hours of the night" if that happen it will be a history record making. TTG vs CC group, my prediction is finally the majority still win in the voting time. Calvary Today please report your news fast, we like to hear the outcome of the EGM since majority of us are not qualify to attend. Thanking you in advance.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 19, 2012 11:09 PM
Just wondering, any possibility of getting our pledges money back since we no longer in CC. I heard of a church in our country that the ex members pledges for their new building were refunded to them when they ask for it. The reasons are they no longer flow with their former church vision and their break away church need fund for their own building. Any comments?
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 20, 2012 7:21 AM
Fire works for tonight's EGM? On the contrary I think it would straight-forward and short. Minimum questions, overwhelming majority and we can all go home!
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 20, 2012 8:46 AM
ATTEND EGM AND VOTE RIGHT TONITE
For those who are among the numbered privileged few VOTING MEMBERS, we pray that you exercise your right to ATTEND EGM and VOTE very very very CAREFULLY and RESPONSIBLY - as Christian stewards - because you are voting over major issue with serious consequences concerning the "disposal" of five bungalows owned by the church, bought through the members' sacrificial giving and public's generous donations over the years. Moreover, these five bungalows bring back memories of good Christianity - in the good old days - for us and our young ones.
Your hands that cast the vote against selling or your voice or (un)raised hands against selling represent the Body of Christ as the Church of Christ.
So attend the EGM and vote right tonite.
All this time, please keep in mind the "less fortunate" Christians (aka fellow C-rites) among the church congregation including associate members who are denied their right to vote in AGMs and EGMs, the 400 plus members (voting and associate members) who were struck off the members lists (while being denied their right to appeal for such harsh treatment sentenced upon them)...not forgetting the silent majority who had been suffering helplessly in silence under this evil regime.
Please keep in mind too, those who are first time visitors or newcomers, who are todate in the dark, being ignorant of the true sinful background history of CC's satanic cult leader and his gang of hypocrites and parasitic priests.
Voting members, keep in mind the need to vote rightly. You are answerable to God for your action or non action tonite. Do not allow yourselves to be swayed by lie, half truths and deception at the EGM. Do not be deceived by the pastoral liars at the pulpit.
Bring down "Goliath" to his knees. With God on your side, you can cut him down to size. Go with God, fight the spiritual battle.
Vote to sell off CCC ...
and the whole problem is immediately solved !!!
According to the Holy Bible, we should be more concerned about saving souls (Grand Commission - spiritual realm), not being bogged down constantly worrying about financing snowballing debts for CCC (worldly things)!
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 20, 2012 10:11 AM
Whoever is the pastor or leader makes no difference. They are all equally required to openly display financial accountability, transparency and integrity.
................................................
A COMMENT ON THE ABOVE
FROM WHAT I KNOW ABOUT THE AOG PASTORS, THEY THINK THAY ARE 1 STEP HIGHER THAN THE REST SO NO NEED TO BE ACCOUNTABLE.JUST THROW OUT A FEW BIBLE VERSES ABOUT SUBMISSION,COMMITMENT,REMAINING TRUE TO GOD'S VISION. AND "DONT TOUCH GOD'S ANOINTED."
HELLO THERE AOG PASTOR - DID YOU READ THE ABOVE? YOU ARE REQUIRED TO BE TRANSPARENT IN FINANCIAL MATTERS- ESPECIALLY AS CONCERNS THE SHEEPS MONEY NOT YOURS - NOT YOURS TO COLLECT IT AND MAKE A STATEMENT FROM THE PULPIT- "YOU DONT TELL US HOW TO SPEND THE MONEY.!!" IS THAT SO,MR.PASTOR WOLF?? WE THINK YOU SHOULD RETHINK YOUR ATTITUDES.IS THIS WHAT YOU LEARNT FROM YOUR RELIGIOUS SCHOOL?
MESSAGE TO ALL CC SHEEP
BE ALERT AS IT IS OBVIOUS THAT THERE WOLVES IN SHEEPS CLOTHING AMONG US AND THEY ARE DEVOURING US.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 20, 2012 11:43 AM
RY should go and spend sometime with these folks and See Gods work instead of continuing with the usual begging and cheap talk about sacrificicial giving.
.........................................
I agree with the above.RY is spouting empty words these days because his mind has been affected by the CCC building.The Apostle warned the Phillippians-"BEWARE OF THE DOGS"-religious wolves in the midst of the sheep.
RY has clouded his calling and should be resent to the mission field to see what God is doing there-a noble work.See the pictures by AXED TERUK.God can bring in the people--and they dont need a "landmark building" to worship God.RY's pathetic statement should reveal his inner spiritual condition to all and be alert.Just hear these words which came from his lips in Cheras
"JUST IMAGINE-BEING PART OF A LANDMARK CHURCH IN MALAYSIA!!"
These are the modern day hirelings which the AOG system is producing until today.It is doubtful if these pastors can ever preach without asking for more money. What do they care that you have 3 children and both you and your spouse work? What matters to them is their "landmark building"
The EGM is around the corner.And the backslidden team would be edgy-I suspect.Be sure there will be few Pentecostal devious tricks up their sleeve.Of course they will try to throw dust into our eyes again.So pray before you enter that Satans turf that "ye be not deceived."
Finally,remember you are dealing with a Pastor BUT a Con Artist who sacked Dr.Lum,axed the opposition and survived a Court case- and used other die hard clowns as his shield to attend Court.You dont need to fear them because you are not dealing with a God fearing man but a crafty snake- able to stay camaflouged.
He has been telling many lies,and still many more to cover up his earlier lies.And they wont stop. I believe the Judgment is already on the house and the exposure is going to continue.
HEY- SHEEP ..DONT BE TOO DISAPPOINTED. MAYBE ALL THIS HAS HAPPENED FOR THE GREATER GOOD.ONE DAY ALL THESE HAPPENINGS WILL ONLY BE MEMORIES BEHIND US AND THE FUTURE PASTORS WILL THINK TWICE BEFORE ABUSING THE SHEEP/ Bye and God Bless.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 20, 2012 12:13 PM
" ...any possibility of getting our pledges money back..." April 20, 2012 7:21 AM
If one come with a Clean Heart, and you have legal documents of past & existing memberships, receipts of payment, contributions ever since 1985, all of you can "Individually File" a Civil Litigation EACH to recover back your monetary contributions!
Such statement of Claims must be specific according to the date and time of payment as per Church Legal records!
There are some Cited cases that can be used as Legal precedence ! Go to Court with a Clean Hand to recover what is Legally PERMISSIBLE !
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 20, 2012 12:29 PM
As much as all the comments are very nice to read, I find it appalling that so many of you post anonymously.
Earlier there were some comments about how this young man who brought his mother to the pastor etc. and how his boldness and courage was commended.
But quite clearly there aren't enough people here who are brave enough to not hide behind the shroud of anonymity on the Internet and make comments, regardless of how valid they are.
It is easy to make comments, but it is not easy to put your hands up, make comments, and take responsibility for your comments.
Just a comment.
April 19, 8:51pm
Thank you for the lesson on 'practice' and 'practise'. I do love to hear British English spoken. But to write and spell British I would need a new dictionary I suppose. My apology to the 'Practising Accountant' who wasn't too funny.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 20, 2012 6:15 PM
Standard talk:
You do what you can, God will do what you cannot. Give.
For with God all things all possible. Give.
Don't pray for money, pray for blessings so that you can give. (eh?)
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 20, 2012 6:37 PM
SINNING AGAINST TEN COMMANDMENTS
The first commandment states "You shall have no other gods before me." PeeGee and gang already committed sin against God, by worshipping the Money God, while enslaving themselves to earthly pleasures.
The second commandment states. "You shall not make for yourself any carved image or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above or in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep my commandments."
Again, the current cult leader of our church, with the backing of his satanic followers, had sinned greatly by engaging the services of a self proclaimed Freemason architect, while openly agreeing to the incorporation of a Pharoah's tomb and a Serpent, symbol of Satan, the fallen Archangel Lucifer, who rebelled against God's authority in the heavens.
So you still believe this satanic priest is God's annointed one ?
No amen ?
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 20, 2012 6:39 PM
WHAT'S FINAL OUTCOME OF TONIGHT'S EGM ?
We hope that anybody who attended the EGM could please give us an accurate summarised account of what happened during tonight's EGM. Was there a decisive show of hands or voting for or against the selling of the five bungalows ? Was there a majority ? or was it a stalemate situation ?
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 20, 2012 11:21 PM
To blogger 4-20-2012 "You do what you can, God will do what you cannot. Give.
For with God all things all possible. Give.
Don't pray for money, pray for blessings so that you can give. (eh?)"
I think you are a little mixed up. People should give as the Holy Spirit leads them who to give to, when to give; giving from your heart, giving joyfully to please God and not man, to build up God's kingdom, not man's, to invite God's glory and not man's vain glory. Considering all this, I think everyone should have stopping giving by now and funds should have dried up for CC to stop the building of an abomination to God.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 21, 2012 6:18 AM
COLLECTION FIGURES STILL SHROUDED IN SECRECY
Ps SK made the public announcement in church that the amount "received" during the Easter Sunday morning service totalled RM200,000.00 - COLLECTIONS PLUS PLEDGES ! How much were the collections ? He never bothered to disclose this vital information. If you were all whizz kids mathematicians and statisticians, using Formulas X and Y, maybe you would be about to figure out how much exactly the "church" actually collected that day. BUT for the rest of us, it is NOT sporting at all for the cult leader "torture" us with this cruel guessing game.
We think the cult leader is stuck with a Catch 22 situation. If the Ps announced a huge figure, for example RM500,000.00, the satanic priest worries that the congregation automatically experience the "you feel good" feeling, thinking that's a sizeable collection amount: they would correspondingly withhold their giving, thus contributing lesser and lesser next time . On the other hand, if the Ps announced a drastically reduced figure, say RM25,000.00, the cult leader also worries about repercussions like he is losing the trust and support of the congregation, plus the loss of face ("jatuh standard") in the AOG "priestly brotherhood".
They said study of human behavior is a pseudoscience, you cannot accurately make predictions each and every time.
We believe the cult leader is trapped in such a sticky situation, pressures from urgent demands for monetary top ups to service bank loans, numerous reminders to also pay the principal amounts, reminders from the various contractors for their payments, further pressures for payments due to suppliers, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc ! And all the while staring at the ticking clock and calender as the deadline approaches each day and hour ! Plus how many people will turn up for the Carnival ? How mnany tickets will be sold ? Will it rain that whole day ? Will there be enough supporters to make this year's Carnival a success ? How much will be the net profit, after deducting all expenses ?
Cult leader, no oversized Panadol can help you, man !
Sleep tight, if you can ... He sure envies you, "I am a rich pastor" !!!! You got no problems, he got tons of them, due to his self pride and greed for position, money and power. Ditto for your conmen pastors too. Is this going to be your last supper ? No more freebies after this ?
Ha Ha Ha !
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 21, 2012 7:35 AM
IS CHURCH A SAFE PLACE TODAY FOR FAMILIES?
Church is supposed to be a place where we receive spiritual nourishment from God fearing Shephards.But regretably,what we have today are Swines handing out lies and wolves in sheeps's CLOTHING fleecing the sheep-meticulously right down the last penny.
There has arisen a Big Question Mark over the leadership of CC right now.Of course,when the Jellyfish(a converted Conman & Liar with SP now-the Salesman got converted a long while ago)SK said they had collected RM200,000.You mean the congregation carried so much cash when they came for Easter? Really ??Is that so AOG Rev.SK?? I saw the crowd and it is highly improbable.They are thinking along the old lines- that the sheep are dump and stupid- that they will believe whatever is told and accept whatever is dished out-MEEKLY AND WITHOUT ANY DISBELIEF.Sir,a new day is dawning on the Lords Sheep at CC.And the dense clouds are disappearing slowly.
Many instintively knew the collection figures was another lie.In all likelihood,it was pledges which would be a big chunk than the $$ actually collected.I can understand when laywers,accountants and business people are not thoroughly honest in their dealings-but Pastors within a Church?? Shameful indeed!!!
Election fever is slowly building in the atmosphere and many believe that the present Goverment will be booted out.I believe so-and together with the exit of the present Govt.- I certainly do hope the CC leadership will be booted out too without any apologies.They are overstaying their welcome and the whole leadership is smeared with lies right now.
If SP dares- let him resign and allow the congregation to vote- WHETHER THEY STILL WANT HIM AROUND.
But what can they do out there?SP and gang have lost all sense of shame and they can probably get jobs as used car salesmen selling 2nd hand Porches & Jaguars.They really can talk and sell with a straight face. But that would indeed be a difficult thing for a Tan Sri.
CC is no more a safe place for families and they have become a shameful example to the congregation and for the youth.The youth may be silent- but dont think they are stupid.
SK- thanks for your statement.Now we know you are a CONFIRMED AOG LIAR!!! Do the decent thing-resign and go home and reflect deeply on your present predicament.[We hope you don't decide to sink with the ship]
RM200,000- EH?
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 21, 2012 12:21 PM
Ha!Ha! Ha! SP would never have guessed that sacking Dr.Lum and axing his sheep would lead to this state of affairs.I hope all other AOG so-called Reverends learn the lesson.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 21, 2012 12:25 PM
SP has tarnished the image of AOG Pastors in Malaysia. He has some serious praying to do.
Concerned AOG Pastor/.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 21, 2012 1:44 PM
LEADERSHIP BY EXAMPLE
You pastors (PG1, PG2, SK, PO, RY, TO, DS, etc) always chant nonstop to the cc congregation about giving sacrificially, we the dumb sheep of cc believe the time has arrived for "Leadership by Example" and "Actions speak louder than words".
So you pastors start selling off your fancy high powered and expensive cars by HAVING A CAR SALE AUCTION. Then we contribute every single sen to the ccc building fund. You do not need all these cars. You can all car pool in an old van, the "bas sekolah" type. Good testimony of your humility to the public. Remember your proclamations in church about your calling from God Himself ? To serve God and mankind ?
We believe another follow up action by you pastors is to sell off your houses ASAP.
What a great idea :
WHY NOT HAVE A HOUSE SALE AUCTION BY SELLING OFF YOUR BIG EXPENSIVE HOUSES, PASTORS ? You don't need such bungalows in Bangsar... Stay together in a dormitory, with added blessings from healthy Christian fellowshipping with each other.
Likewise, again donate every single sen to the ccc building fund !
Like you pastors always say, exercise your faith. God will always bless you and your families. In fact, the more you give and sacrifice, the more GOD WILL BLESS YOU !!!!
And you can next organise a Grand Garage Sale yo convert all your jewellery, designer clothes, accessories, perfumes, sports shoes, cameras, watches, handphones, computers, sound systems, hobby items, personal collections, books, dvds, motorbikes, etc, etc into hard cash for the ccc building fund !
So cc pastors get off your butts and swing into action this Sunday with AUCTIONS OF YOUR CARS AND HOUSES ! The sales will easily generate millions of RM ! Wow, we are all already so excited about your selfless sacrificial giving, pastors !
Remember we are waiting for YOUR SACRIFICIAL GIVING, pastors ! First, show us the way to sacrifice for God. God bless.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 21, 2012 7:04 PM
Despite all facts and evidents, the AOG superintendent speak nothing against the PG's corruption and discrimination.
It is so proven that he too is corrupted leader. The entire AOG committee seem so worldly and corrupted. None really serve the Lord. They only serve their appetite for power, fame and wealth...another religion gangster.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 22, 2012 1:55 AM
You're wasting your breath, Brother! It won't happen in a blue moon. The rich young ruler couldn't leave his riches to follow Jesus. No one can be separated from their money and possessions unless, like Job, God sends Satan to strip them from everything they have. Then they will pass the test like Job, or you will see their real character and God will bring them down in humility to sit on the ground with sackcloth and ashes at the mercy of God. Pray imprecatory prayers against all of the wrong doers that they and everything they have will be taken from them, so that their souls will be saved. You can do your part to save them from hell fire if you do this. CC, bank accounts, fancy homes and cars, worldly possessions mean nothing and have to be left back where we all are headed. Think and pray about it. We're talking about heaven or hell as our destination, like that song "this world is not my home, I'm just passing through." If you have 2 or more people agree with you in prayer and pray as I have suggested, you will not lament much longer for your CC and backslidden leaders. You will see the hand of God move and your prayers for restoration and healing begin to be answered in ways that you could not have imagined! God is Mighty; He is Merciful; He is sufficiently able to HEAR AND ANSWER THE PRAYERS OF THE FAITHFUL! Consider this as a Word from the Lord. Others I'm sure will have a witness to this Word and intercede for CC also because we are one family in the Lord. When you are in anguish, we share your pain, BUT IT IS GOD WHO IS THE MOST GRIEVED!
Exercise your faith with others and BELIEVE THAT HE WILL HEAR YOUR PRAYERS!
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 22, 2012 2:23 AM
What I cannot stand is that when they tell you to give sacrificially,they speak from a heart which is very indifferent and very unconcerned about your own financial situation, about your own debts,house and car mortgages, childrens' education and tuition, medical expenses,maid salaries, other household expenses, contribution to parents, taxes, any money left for rainy days etc. No, no, no such concern mentioned at all. Just pressure from them to give and give and never failing to quote Malachi to scare you and make you feel guilty.
And how many times have the pastors personally visited you to see how you are getting on. Maybe they will if you are the loaded and are big financial contributors to the church as well as give big love gifts to them or belanga them in expensive fine dining restaurants. Otherwise, even if you are very sick they won't have time for you, or maybe they will just send a junior person. In their eyes, most of us are too small for them to care about.
There are of course exceptions and to those pastors with a true shepherds' heart, we thank God for you.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 22, 2012 10:41 AM
What a great idea :
WHY NOT HAVE A HOUSE SALE AUCTION BY SELLING OFF YOUR BIG EXPENSIVE HOUSES,PASTORS?You don't need such bungalows in Bangsar... Stay together in a dormitory,with added blessings from healthy Christian fellowshipping with each other.
...................................
Well said my dearest brother/sister-WELL SAID. These jokers are spewing out deceitful words all the time.They are trying deaperately to restore their ruined reputation.But like King Saul and Judas Iscariot- they are on a slippery slope ANS ARE ON THEIR WAY DOWN.
I bet the other AOG Pastors are silently watching these events from the shadows,like wolves-and none dares to show their faces.(most probably,in their own churches- they have a hand in the church pie as well.These are the modern day hirelings who are in "servin in church" for their bread & butter-and they live off the sheep.Sure the "worker is worthy of his sheep" but there is no need to beg or to resort to shameful ways.
(Our previous Pastor was also abusive,so after praying for guidance we left.It was normal for him to hit out against this blog- calling it the work of satan.My wife says that with his funny mustache-he looks more like the LOCAL PIMP than a Pastor)
If they have anymore self respect left in them- they would resign and reapply to the congregation-if they are still needed.
SP AND BEGGARS-STEP DOWN AND STAND FOR RE-ELECTION.YOU NEED A NEW MANDATE FROM THE PEOPLE.NO USE HIDING BEHIND THE CHURCH CONSTITUTION AND CLAIMING THAT YOU ARE NOT AN EMPLOYEE.
WE REALLY ARE OF THE OPINION THAT YOU SHOULD BE BOOTED OUT.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 22, 2012 12:57 PM
FRUITS OF THE SPIRIT
We totally agree with comments from anonymous April 22, 2.23 am.
Ever wondered why these so called pastors "speak from a heart that is very indifferent and very unconcerned about your financial situation ... "?
It is simply because we believe they are NOT God's annointed priests. We suspect They do not have God residing in their hearts, minds, soul and bodies. They may be able to trick dumb sheep into believing they are God's holy represntatives simply by their ability to quote Bible verses - which we all also can do, if we work hard in memorizing Bible verses to suit our messages - spiced up with appropriate real life illustrations and supporting testimonies.
In fact, let us all remember we are ALL told in the Bible to be holy priests ! So it is NOT EXCLUSIVE RIGHTS of so called pastors alone to be designated as God's appointed representatives of holy priesthood . That also explains why some churches install the system of Elders, taking turns to preach, removing the danger of over empowering a single individual to make all decisions over administrative and financial matters.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 22, 2012 1:34 PM
And how many times have the pastors personally visited you to see how you are getting on..
..............................
My thoughts on the above
In those heydays-house/hospital visitation was a must.I heard these words once from a certain Pastor at CC-- I am not free for those kind of things!!!! Another said'I am busy this week!!"Today Pastors are very busy people- doing their own thing. Quite a few of them are invloved in some kind of business- from selling insurance to "healing rocks that can energize your spirit". Pastors with a sizeable congregation - look to the flock for squeezing purposes.
Looks like the modern day definition of ministry is "Preach,go home and collect my salary at the end of the day."
Whenever the end of the month approaches,we will hear "Let us turn to the Book of Malachi..."
A message to CC Pastors- Your real payday is,I believe,on its way.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 22, 2012 1:51 PM
A note to all Pastors from a sheep.
Jesus last words to Peter before He ascended to Heaven was, if you love Me, feed My sheep. And three times He said that. Not suck them dry. Not, think big, dream big or be obsessed with having the biggest building and congregation in the country.
Pastors, if you truly love Jesus and are truly called to be His shepherd the bigness that matters to God is not how big your congregation is, or how big your church building is or how big your collection is. The true shepherd/pastor that says he loves Jesus shows it with a big shepherds' heart, not with a big dream of constructing a huge landmark building or a building big famous name for himself. Such earthly standards and ways belong to the earthly corporate world.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at April 22, 2012 1:59 PM
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