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Seeking Truth, Transparency & Godly Governance in Calvary Church, Kuala Lumpur
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Call to Calvarites
It's time to unite in our common quest for truth, transparency, good governance, stewardship and accountability in our broken and hurting Church. Until the above goals are achieved, this is what you can do:-
1. Stop Giving to Calvary. If you wish, you may re-direct your giving to worthy Christian organisations, Bible schools, orphanages, smaller churches which are struggling financially or non-church sponsored missionaries or missions work. However, if God specifically tells you to give to Calvary or you are uncomfortable about not giving to Calvary, please continue to do so.
2. Pray. Pray for God's forgivessness and cleansing of our Church as a body for all the injustice, unethical practices and bad stewardship that we have condoned or been blind to over the years. Pray against the principalities and evil forces that have crowded the minds and vision of our leaders. Pray for unrighteousness, covetousness and pride to be removed from our midst. Pray for God's truth and sovereign will to fall afresh on our Church. Pray for His healing for our broken hurting Church.
1. Stop Giving to Calvary. If you wish, you may re-direct your giving to worthy Christian organisations, Bible schools, orphanages, smaller churches which are struggling financially or non-church sponsored missionaries or missions work. However, if God specifically tells you to give to Calvary or you are uncomfortable about not giving to Calvary, please continue to do so.
2. Pray. Pray for God's forgivessness and cleansing of our Church as a body for all the injustice, unethical practices and bad stewardship that we have condoned or been blind to over the years. Pray against the principalities and evil forces that have crowded the minds and vision of our leaders. Pray for unrighteousness, covetousness and pride to be removed from our midst. Pray for God's truth and sovereign will to fall afresh on our Church. Pray for His healing for our broken hurting Church.
Purpose of the Blog
The primary purpose is to keep members and regular worshippers of Calvary Church, KL updated on issues and concerns in our church today and to provide a platform for them to express their views, comments and concerns and provide feedback on matters raised, so that God's will and purposes for our lives and for our church may be fulfilled to His glory.
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What exactly is in the audit report on CIM prepared by the auditor, Ferrier Hodgson for the last EGM? All that was explained to the members ...
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In a desperate attempt to seek funds to restart the abandoned Calvary Convention Centre (CCC), Senior Pastor Prince Guneratnam (PG) once aga...
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This year’s World Assemblies of God Fellowship Conference was held in Chennai, India, recently. Pastor Prince Guneratnam (PG) was one of the...
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Rev. David Yonggi Cho, mentor and good buddy of Senior Pastor Prince Guneratnam (PG), was recently found guilty by a South Korean court for...
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CCC is finally built … and the journey of financial slavery begins Senior Pastor Prince Guneratnam (PG)’s dream of a 5,000-seat audito...
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The Purpose For the mutual encouragement, enlightenment and empowerment of Calvarites; members and worshippers at Calvary Church Kuala Lumpu...
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Calvary enters JV with property developer After banks reject loans to CCC At the recent EGM of Calvary Church held on 23 September 2011...
Healing For Our Land Revival Meetings
Watch a Review clip on A Review of the Healing For Our Land Revival Meetings
or directly from You Tube Healing For Our Land (M4J)
Daily Bible Verse
Articles of Interest
Berita Calvary
Read interesting articles and testimonies in : BERITA CALVARY
The Bario Revival 1973 Revisited. A must read for all Malaysian Christians.
The Bakalalan Revival 1984 Revisited. Another must read for all Malaysian Christians.
Read about the church which borrowed money to build and now has to file for bankruptcy. US Church Files for Bankruptcy
TTG in the newspapers again. "Christian & Politics".
How Pastors Get Rich
Borrow to Build
"The Anointing" Revisited
Protection From Deception
TTG in the newspapers again. "Christian & Politics".
How Pastors Get Rich
Borrow to Build
"The Anointing" Revisited
Protection From Deception
Recommended Blogs
Christians and Law Suits
Our Pastors often quote 1 Corinthians 6 as a basis that Christians should not pursue legal action against one another. We must understand the context of Apostle Paul's admonishment and not simply quote the passage out of context. What does other Christian leaders say?
1. CHRISTIAN LAWSUIT by Dr. Paul Nah
2. CHRISTIAN INVOLVEMENT IN LAW SUITS by Dr. George Wood, the General Superintendent of AG, USA
3. WHEN IT'S RIGHT TO GO TO COURT by Doug Goins.
1. CHRISTIAN LAWSUIT by Dr. Paul Nah
2. CHRISTIAN INVOLVEMENT IN LAW SUITS by Dr. George Wood, the General Superintendent of AG, USA
3. WHEN IT'S RIGHT TO GO TO COURT by Doug Goins.
Letters to TTG/CT
Read the following letters and e-mails sent in by people who have identified themselves to us. The contents of their letters are relevant to our current issues, although we may not be in total agreement with the views presented by them. However, not all e-mails to us will be published.
1. A letter from an AOG Pastor
2. A letter from a former Regular Worshipper
3. A letter from a Calvarite
4. An ex-Calvarite comments on CCC
5. Axed for attending TTG meeting
6. Letters from Overseas
1. A letter from an AOG Pastor
2. A letter from a former Regular Worshipper
3. A letter from a Calvarite
4. An ex-Calvarite comments on CCC
5. Axed for attending TTG meeting
6. Letters from Overseas
Feelin' Generous?
Make a REAL difference in someone's life in 2011. Here's some worthy causes which you may want to bless and contribute to. Click on the links below:
1. Malaysian Christian Association For Relief (M'sian CARE)
2. FunGates SuperFlow Foundation
3. World Vision Malaysia
4. Asian Outreach (M) Bhd.
Malaysian Office: +603 7876 6789
The above charities are not associated with CT or the TTG group in any way but are examples of good Christian works which deserve our support and prayers.
1. Malaysian Christian Association For Relief (M'sian CARE)
2. FunGates SuperFlow Foundation
3. World Vision Malaysia
4. Asian Outreach (M) Bhd.
Malaysian Office: +603 7876 6789
The above charities are not associated with CT or the TTG group in any way but are examples of good Christian works which deserve our support and prayers.
Christian Publications
To get FREE copies of "OUR DAILY BREAD" write to : malaysia@rbc.org or visit : rbc ministries
To purchase books by rbc ministries ONLINE : Discovery House Distribution
ASIAN BEACON, a contemporary Christian magazine, has been impacting lives in Malaysia for the past 40 years. It is an important tool for education, exhortation and evangelism as it is one of the few Christian magazines in Malaysia and Singapore with a publishing permit.
ASIAN BEACON, a contemporary Christian magazine, has been impacting lives in Malaysia for the past 40 years. It is an important tool for education, exhortation and evangelism as it is one of the few Christian magazines in Malaysia and Singapore with a publishing permit.
Visit Wah Lok's website for a list of Malaysian Authors : Tabernacle Music
Recommended Reading
COPYRIGHT ©
All articles published on this blog are the property of their respective writers and or the CalvaryToday Webmaster and may not be reproduced or published, in whole or in part, without permission. All rights reserved.
42 comments:
A Merry Christmas & a Happy New Year 2012 to all Christians in Malaysia and Overseas !
Posted in CT2 @ December 17, 2011 11:09 AM
"TALL STORY" NOT "MOOVING TO US
By now we all should know there are pirates in church, especially those who learned the lesson after being suckered before. If still blurred, watch out NOT to continue paying "tuition fees" via your "sacrificial giving" to such crooks in church.
Move aside Jack Sparrow, there are apparently far worse, more ruthless, more desperate, cut throat pirates in our church - judging from the horrible public message dished to the congregation yesterday at the church that ALL COLLECTIONS were designated for PeeGee and his devilish gang of pastors (aka pastoral staff).
We (including most of the congregation present) really felt nauseated by the appeal speech that the truly hard core "sales talk" given by the person appointed (replacing Edwardo boy ?) to "beg" for "love offering money" this Christmas. Then followed by shocking news. How greedy they have become ! By comparison, in all previous years, the collections due for the pastors must be over and above any excess. No need to guess who is the big chief who so arbitarily unilaterally changed the rules. Everybody knows.
To top it all, this spokesperson actually emphasised giving something "tangible" !!!!! (as if we are so stupid) Like the Asians say, no need to "draw out the intestines" ! The message also diligently spoke "volumes", highlighting the so called "sacrifices" the pastors made for us throughout the year, officiating weddings, praying for the sick, praying for job situations, jobless, etc, etc, etc.
Hello, appointed spokes person, have you heard of the word "overkill" ? We believe all were sickened by the struggle you made during your speech to present the "goodness" in these certain pastors, in glowing praises. Like you need to drum into our heads ...
all these lies and half truths.
But most unfortunately, we all know their true colours. We all know they are liars, hypocrites, parasites, crooks and cheats after our money.
And our money to feed their lavish high class lifestyles are all they ever cared about. So please stop spreading all the bull, all the cock and bull story. Enough of this crap.
We think most, if not all, were NOT MOOved by your "sales talk". At least Edwardo doesn't "torture" us like this in his appeal speech.
We won't be suckered any more. that's why your church collections are thinning very fast, week by week. Plus noticed no response from the congregation nowadays ? No amens ? No clapping ? Dead silence ? Get the message ? Passive resistance... then revolution... ?
Please MOOVE aside, false prophets and satanic teachers. We want godly church leaders, not you PeeGee and gang.
Posted in CT2 @ December 19, 2011 10:10 AM
CC pastors, isn't it your christian duty serving God to pray for the sick,for jobs, etc,etc. Its downright shameful and unchristian to ask the congregation for "love offering money" in return for your prayers or other duties. Haven't you people had more than enough by living off comfortablity & lavishly from the members hard earned money? Is this how a servant of God behave? Just when are you people going to learned and stop all your asking for money. Please be concerned that there are members out there who are not financially well off than you people.
Look into your Bibles and learned to see how Jesus lived. He deny Himself all comforts and slept most of the times in the mountains, inspite there is a house for Him to stay. If only you & many of us are able to learn to live like Him.
Posted in CT2 @ December 19, 2011 3:40 PM
Today at the Sunday service, the yes-woman deaconess, after heaping accolades, asked the congregation to give a generous offering to PG, PG2 and the APs. No mention was made regarding church staff.
What a shame! It had been said that PG and PG2 is paid about RM40k a month! This is more than what many employees earn a year. And PO and RY had already upgraded to new cars. Most of the APs are paid more than RM10k a month and every year they are also rewarded with a handsome bonus. Do they deserve this extra, after-all they are already in a luxurious comfort zone.
The church is forever milking the congregation asking for tithes, faith promise, building fund, TWO collections for external pastors and now a collection specifically for CC's pastors.
No doubt PG and PG2 will get the lion's share of the collection being the CEO and the Senior AP. There are eleven pastors including PG and PG2. If, say, RM35k is collected and divided by eleven pastoral staff, the average share is RM3131 each.
All the pastors are always droning into the congregation to give sacrificially to the church and CCC. Let's see whether the pastors in CC are bold enough to stand up to walk the talk and say "I will give my share to CCC".
Taken from CT2's previous article posted @ December 18, 2011 3:09 PM
I have been following the CCC saga for a couple of years now. I am not from the church nor from Malaysia though I am related to one of the TTG folks.
RMB60,200 is the average cost per seat in the new CCC premise! Unthinkable. With that amount of money, I can help sponsor 120 Middle School students for a whole year from the rural part of mountain to complete their Middle School Education. 5,000 seats, I can either help sponsor 600,000 students in a year or 120 students for the next 50 years! And from such practical help, we can enter into the lives of these students and their families, bringing the Gospel to them and seeing them enter His Kingdom.
I am not against church needing to expand their building. But, RMB60,200 per seat? Does the SP and all the other Pastors realised that when Jesus comes back again, the RMB60,200 per seat will just be burnt away?
The same goes to City Harvest Church or New Creation Church in Singapore. Mega churches with the 'desire' to have the best building for Jesus. But, everything will be burnt away when He comes back.
RMB60,200 per seat is more important or souls of many needy people in Malaysia and outside Malaysia is more important?
Would Jesus seat on a RMB60,200 seat? Hmmm.... I am not too sure.
CHRISTMAS OFFERINGS FOR OTHERS, NOT EVIL CC PASTORS
We made a very radical decision this year. This year onwards, We decided NOT to give any money to cc and ccc funds. We have decided to channel our regular donations to OTHER MORE DESERVING CHARITIES AND ORGANISATIONS WHO GENUINELY HELP OTHERS in need with God's loving kindness. Likewise, you too can also contribute to, (for example), orphanages, single mothers' homes, drug rehab centres, elderly homes, etc. Now we feel very good spiritually and emotionally, at peace with God, with heavy burden removed, knowing that our money is properly utilised to help make the world a far better place for those less fortunate and needy. The Spirit of Christmas came upon us all. As God's stewards, our conscience is clear that we did the right thing, that we actively ensured our money is not abused / misused to feed the hedonistic lifestyles of parasitic over paid under worked selfish bullying satanic pastors in cc. More importantly, we also believe our children too learnt through our decision and action about Christian stewardship being in our hands, therefore being our responsibility to use carefully and wisely.
Like others too, instead of being suckered into sacrificial giving for these evil money loving priests, we also treated our family to a well earned holiday together.
Blessed Christmas and Happy New Year !
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at December 20, 2011 9:32 AM
SALES TALK - A SICK JOKE
We had such a good laugh inside this Sunday church service during the appeal for our generous Christmas offerings to cc pastors by that deaconess. We wonder whether the deaconess imagine being given such great VIP honour being the "trusted person" to appeal to the congregation for the love offerings .... like we ponder, we wonder ... Did this spokesperson really realise what's "so great" about being "cornered" by the cunning satanic priest into being the designated victim (read "sucker") to publicly "beg" for money for highly overpaid (allegedly earning monthly salaries of RM10,000 to RM40,000, excluding annual increments bonuses, perks, allowances, love offerings, sacrificial offerings, etc, etc, etc) underworked (resorting to recycled sermons, ill prepared sermons eg openly reading from sermons notes, half asleep, misquoting bible, half dead rambling sermons, cliche sick jokes plagiarised from internet, overheads with lots of spelling and grammatical mistakes) scheming ever lying satanic priests (aka wolves in sheepskins) ? And this so called deaconess even "hinted" it should be something "tangible" as their rewards. Okay, deaconess, should we next time, after church services, better put "tangible" lemons in the hands of all pastors greeting us at the exit doors ? We hope it is "tangible" enough to remind these pastors they are "lemons" to we "dumb sheep" being suckered by your "sales talk" ?
Too bad, our dear Brother Jones was not present this Sunday to tell the deaconess to "sit down and shut up" ! What a pity cc has sunk to the lowest depths in absurdity todate. Ha ha ha ! Ha ha ha ! We can die laughing if we remain in cc.
Only trouble is our hearts bleed for our beloved cc for all the troubles, mess, debts, misery, sufferings this satanic priest have caused.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at December 20, 2011 10:10 AM
PG often says if a member of CC gives money to another church or pastor, it's like eating in MacDonalds and paying at KFC. Duh, that's only true if he thinks we are not of the same body of Christ, not of the same faith, and not feeding on the same Word of God. See how greedy people spin words to keep money to themselves.
Brethen, this Christmas and at anytime of the year, extend your love and money to other churches in need, to the poorer pastors, to para church organisations,to missions, to the ophans, to the widows, to the destitutes etc. Give to wherever or whoever God leads you to and not according to the misleading teachings of some selfish greedy pastors. We are one body in Christ, not MacDonalds or KFC as some make us to be.
Blessed Christmas.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at December 20, 2011 11:54 AM
TOTALLY "Turn Off The Tap" (TOTT)
EVEN BEFORE you put any money into the church collection bags, remind yourselves of the evil wrong doings of the satanic priest and his cohorts, including the following sins :
[1] PG1 caught being seen at a notorious red light area, normally frequented by prostitutes,
[2] PG1's Lake Club membership being terminated after the official club inquiry confirmed his disrobing himself of the bath / streaking naked towel naked in front of women members at the swimming pool,
[3] PG2's determination to accompany PG1 wherever he travelled on locally or overseas trips, to ensure PG1 did not misbehave again , to avoid future embarasments. PG2's decision meant the church incurring unnecessary additional financial costs for this "loving" couple. If PG2 could not make it, Ps Skum or TO ot PO would be PG1's travel companion to keep an eye on the "naughty boy".
[4] PG1 practised favouritism, nepotism and discrimination among the staff. Church staff were unfavourably assessed for their productivity and work performance. By comparison, pstoral staff like PO, TO, SKum, RY and DS were the blue eyed boys. they enjoy great increments, bonuses, special perks and job benefits. Of course, his precious children JIm and Pam were untouchables in the G dynasty in relation to their various secret remunirations, etc, etc, etc. Their father have changed the church constitution so much that their G dynasty was so solidly entrenched in cc, whcih they treat as their personal kingdom.
Jim, formerly just an ordinary Audio Visual guy in cc, was promoted to Project Director (nothing less) of the mega complex Calvary Convention Centre. Never mind the fact that Jim (we suspect very strongly) knows next to nuts about the contruction industry, building materials sourcing and purchasing, quantity surveying details, safety rules and regulations, daily, weekly and monthly work schedules and deadlines, etc, etc, etc. never mind, for example, if the supplier cheated Jim (and ccc) by offering and supplying cheaper quality building materials. Never mind if Jim (and ccc)was shortchanged by quantities. Never mind what actually happened during the Nam Fatt (the first principal contractor) fiasco. never mind we do not know who is the current principal contractor. Never mind the church have to keep on pumping hundreds of millions of Ringgit into the mega project. And our precious Pam got promoted to CLC Director, as witnessed by a grand church dedication of her calling to serve to God. Thjen suddenly a small announcement of Pam's leaving her ministry. No reason why given.
[5] PG1 unilaterally and ruthlessly axing 400 plus cc members (voting and associate) without any genuine valid reasons,
[6] PG1 ruthlessly removed any suspected opposition to his (evil) chruch leadership, even during AGMs and EGMs.
[7] Even after the legal court case, PG1 stubbornly remain entrenched in power, using his cohorts to bully and terrorise others in church.
[8] Even after TTG discoverd discrepancy in the church accounts and raised questions, PG1 steadfastly refused to acknowledge wrong doing or confess his wrong act. He does not want to practise truth, transparency anf godly governance in church.
[9} Pg1 actively embarked in a campaign of brainwashing the congregation to give sacrifically for tithes, faith pledges, faith promises, love offerings,etc., etc, etc.
{10] Pg1 is constantly devising devious "money making" schemes, resorting to questionable means.
The above list of sins is not exhaustive.
Yet you want to continue supporting this satanic priest by financing his mad cap schemes which will eventually bankrupt cc and its members for generations to come ?
Do you want cc destroyed by this mad man's deathwish and selfish dream ? Do we ?
TOTT TOTALLY !!!!
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at December 20, 2011 5:28 PM
DEACONESS DECOYED
Ms Read we believe ? You poor poor woman, why did you allow yourself so dumbly to be tricked by PeeGee1 into doing the dirty job of begging for money in public to line the pockets of this filthly rich satanic priest andf his cult followers ? Don't you have any self respect and common sense. Why don't you pray for Godly wisdom before you undertake this task ?
The funny thing is we understand you were to be one of the most outstanding local woman entrepreneur ... Isn't it odd that you got suckered into this distasteful job of being PeeGee1's appointed "church beggar' ?
The other funny thing is Eduardo the clown so cleverly absented himself, intentionally or by chance, this year's appeal for Christmas love offering for cc's pastors... coincidentally leaving the vacancy for you to fill in, deaconess Ms Read.
BTW you sure overkilled your appeal speech in church. Nobody really believed your overly padded sales talk. You obviously missed the body alnguage of the attendees. Word of advice: You must not allow yourself to be made fool of by the tricky unholy priest. Quickly quit your deaconess post before he force you to commit more damaging mistakes. this type of posts nobody in their right frame of mind wants at all !!!!!!
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at December 20, 2011 5:46 PM
“It is more blessed to give than to receive”
Very often during offering time and especially during fund-raising campaigns, pastors will quote the above phrase – “it is more blessed to give than to receive”.
Unfortunately this is misapplied by pastors/evangelists without looking into the full text of Acts 20:33-35 from which the phrase was quoted.
It is partially taken out of the full context from Acts 20:33-35 (KJV) which says “ v33: I have coveted no man's silver, or gold, or apparel. v34: Yea, ye yourselves know, that these hands have ministered unto my necessities, and to them that were with me. V35: I have shewed you all things, how that so labouring ye ought to support the weak, and to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, It is more blessed to give than to receive.”
What a great testimony Paul the apostle gave. He did not covet for wealth and bungalows and he labored with his own hands as a tentmaker in order to meet his own necessities in life and those of his travelling companions. And in v35 he was able to say – by his example “we ought to support the weak” and not fleecing money from the congregation to support the well-fed and their lavish lifestyles. Paul was then able to say “it is more blessed to give than to receive.” The apostle Paul could have easily pressured church members to give love offerings to him, but HE DID NOT. Hallelujah – that is a true servant of God.
By comparison, if CC pastors are feeling the financial crunch, they should (like Paul) – GO and LABOUR with their own hands (find jobs) to support themselves instead of giving umpteen reasons to the congregation to give generously. What a contrast?
Blessed Christmas to all of you.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at December 21, 2011 10:31 AM
I like the mention of 'it is more blessed to give than to receive' - so in simple interpretation by the unashamed appeal of asking for year end perks from the 'already stressed cc congregation' ......
the pastors have chosen to receive, ie the lesser blessing?
what a choice!!!! they chose to serve money......
Posted by Run away from cc to Calvary Today 2 at December 21, 2011 12:39 PM
Wasting church members money by pamphering for themselves with fat salaries, fat bonuses, perks & benefits, gym membership, scholarships for their children, etc,etc, is an abuse of misusing church funds. Now they want "love offerings". CC pastors do you all know that its a sin to misuse the name of God for personal profit. The Bible warns us of this, "YOU SHALL NOT MISUSE THE NAME OF THE LORD YOUR GOD, FOR THE LORD WILL NOT HOLD ANYONE GUILTLESS WHO MISUSES HIS NAME." ( EXODUS 20:7 )
Jesus is watching.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at December 21, 2011 8:39 PM
A HARD DAY'S NIGHT
We agree with comments made by Anonymous Dec 21, 2011 10.31 am
that these overpaid under worked unproductive bunch of so called pastors should change their negative attitude by "going out to labour with their hands".
We all know that this is almost an impossibility in normal circumstances, since most of these pastors are over aged, nearing or past retirement age of 55 years.
In reality, these pastors would stick out like sore thumbs in the secular world finding jobs with seniority and over generous remunerations, bonuses and perks, etc.
They also lack the professional paper qualifications and related skills, adequate years of proper working experience, human relations know how and skills, etc.
We suspect very strongly that they would not even be short listed for the job interview stage. Most probably, they would be frustrated wasting time, applying for jobs after jobs, without any expected results of gainful employment outside the church. We opine that we have good grounds to assume that they may not even last the 8 working hours of their first working day in the secular world because they carry a destructive attitude problem within themselves.
Judging by their past actions and thoughts, we conclude that they love themselves not others, except maybe the handful of filthy rich.
If we may hazard a calculated guess, we believe their overwhelming fear of unemployment, fear of joblessness, fear of abject poverty, etc in comparison to the cushy prestigious extremely well paid jobs and designations gives PeeGees absolute control over their loyalty and allegiance to the rogue priest.
So the true gritty meaty meaning of "A hard day's night" will never be experienced by these lazy bum pastors who refuse to leave their "comfort zone", despite being trapped into kowtowing and bowing down to the whims and fancies of the PeeGees and family.
Let us be mindful that these same pastors are guilty of "biting that hands that feed them" (viz we the congregation who contribute faithfully and regularly to all the various church funds) !
Most distressingly, they have replaced the Lordship of Jesus Christ with the lordship of PeeGee1 ! Their ultimate betrayal to the Holy Trinity and to the church !
Watch out for their evil spirits, bearing evil spiritual fruits. Do not be deceived by their tricks to ensnare us. May God protect us from and confound all their devilish plans and traps. Even Judas Iscariot is better by lots. At least he confessed his sins and repented over his sins of betraying Jesus before he committed suicide.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at December 21, 2011 9:33 PM
God bless all the bloggers this Christmas!! An Ex- Calvarite.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at December 22, 2011 6:57 PM
The Audacity!
It's simply amazing how PG & PG2 and their family members who live a lifestyle of the rich have the audacity to ask for Christmas Offering!!!
Are the BOD Blind? Stupid? Deceived? that they approved and actually persuaded the Congregation to give these 'wolves in sheep clothing' Money!
Honestly, it so sickening that in spite of the financial
gloom, these rascals stop at nothing to get $$$ into their pockets so that they can continue covet the material things of the world.
Pray, the justice of God will be meted on them.
Posted by SML to Calvary Today 2 at December 22, 2011 9:46 PM
What a pity cc has sunk to the lowest depths in absurdity todate........
A. Last sunday in cheras deacon SL was the church beggar. He went on to praise the pastoral team for their wonderful works and dedication...organising church camps, youth camps, Vacation Bible School, praying for the sheep...
To quote deacon SL "to all the pastors for all their jobs...the deacons decided THIS WEEKS OFFERING AS EXPRESSION OF LOVE. A WONDERFUL OPPORTUNITY. LET'S GIVE A GOOD OFFERING. TQ GOD FOR GIVING US THIS FINE TEAM" unquote.
What a load of crap!!
What audacity!!
Come on! Dear deacon SL. As CEO of a very successsful company how can you do this???!!! it's perfectly fine to collect this offering if the pastoral team IS NOT RECEIVING SALARY and depending on offerings. And their salary (whatever you call it stipend? allowance?...) is NOT SMALL!
Just look at their lifestyle compared to many of the cc sheep. Even their children's phones are much more sophisticated than many of cc breadwinners. What more of the pastors themselves.
Just imagine the government of our beloved country telling us to give a good offering/donation to buy CNY, HR, D and Christmas gifts for the million plus government servants becos they have done a good job like receiving your bills, controlling the traffic, approving your various permohonan, teaching your children...
Anyway YOU DON"T ASK/BEG FOR GIFTS! Gifts is something the giver gives willingly from his/her heart.
To rub salt into the wound in his prayer the deacon prayed "BLESS THE GIVER AND FAMILY" i notice this quite often during collection time nowadays. Years ago the pastors will pray for those who gave and those who were not able to give. Please go back to the Bible and see how Jesus prayed for all NOT SELECTIVELY.
Yes let's see if after all the talk of sacrificial giving the whole pastoral team will give the whole collection to ccc. That will be indeed a great strategy to partially redeem themselves and move more cc sheep to give!
Anyway, dear deacon, you call this fine team???? After leading our once glorious CC with so much funds at its disposal and a wonderful growing congregation so admired by other churches to the present cc with massive debts, even shunned by banks!( how SHAMEFUL additional loan application rejected by ALL the banks!), hundreds of hurting members many of whom mercilessly chopped off and many other misdeeds exposed in this blog. Fine team?? What crap!!!
B. Btw i sometimes wonder whether the pastors pay for their own at such church camps. i also wonder whether the ccc committee used the opportunities of such camps and Easter/Christmas presentations to grab more $$$ for ccc through sale of T-shirts and overpriced DVDs!!!. Two sundays ago in cheras PO THANKED THOSE WHO WENT ON THE JERUSALEM TRIP FOR THE $$$ RAISED FROM THE TRIP.
Looks like the list of strategies for sucking and milking the cc sheep goes on and on and on...
And i sincerely pray that at this Evangelistic Christmas Presentation, SP and his team will not use it to beg for $$$$$ for ccc. Please don't deviate from the purpose to present the TRUE CHRISTMAS STORY to all.
But thanks to this blog many of these strategies are not working as hoped!!!
Yes continue to TOTT!!!!!
A VERY BLESSED CHRISTMAS AND A BLESSED 2012 TO ALL
ANOTHER SMALL FRY
Posted by ANOTHER SMALL FRY to Calvary Today 2 at December 23, 2011 11:10 AM
My family and I have decided to give the Christmas event at Wisma MCA a miss. We will fellowship with our relatives and Christian friends during this holiday season instead of going to Wisma MCA and be stressed by the asking for money for CC and CCC.
A Blessed Christmas and Happy New Year.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at December 23, 2011 12:41 PM
MOTHER of DAY LIGHT ROBBERY!
Crazy or what--that BOD come before the Congregation to ask them to give "love offering" to *PG/PG2 & Ass.Pas????
CONSIDER (Selah).
In particular *these scroungers are found :
-in the Malls most time--in finest stores buying best cosmetics, jewellery, groceries, dining in the best F&B outlets...
-Rest & Relax taking overseas Holidays all year round, Fly business /First class sipping Champagne
- live in luxurious bungalow worth Millions,
Own properties in USA/aboard
-Own expensive cars ( with driver to boast)
- Keep beauty regimes at Gym & Beauty Salons & SPA
Dress in the finest of brands.
- Has 5 (FIVE) figure monthly salary+Perks
+ Guaranteed 13th month pay, extra EPF% & Additional Bonus!
YET they ASK for "Love Offering" bec they pray for some members as a matter in the course of their very basic duty???
Is this not Absolute GREED! SELFISH GAIN, Devoid of any Conscience, without a mosel of 'love' for anyone but themselves and Money, Money & More Money.
Oh, they will squeeze blood even from stones
:(((
Isa 17:14
In the evening, sudden terror!
Before the morning, they are gone!
This is the portion of those who LOOT us,
the lot of those who plunder us.
Posted by Eyes2See to Calvary Today 2 at December 23, 2011 1:37 PM
A HARD DYS NIGHT- RESPONSE
Your observations are so right!!I am thinking of my ex-pastor - a lazy bumb lazing around and sounding very academic.He keeps quiet about his secular qualifications and it is doubtful if he even has an SPM.Although they may talk tough within a church and hand out with other Rev's-in the secular world very few would consider employing them.True there are genuine Pastors- but they are so few.It is my personal belief that my ex-pastor is not fitted for the ministry.Maybe it is a mid-life crisis or something.Only last week I drove past the neighbourhood and there he was as usual- at the stalls again-with some of his khaki pastors.Thats the only life he knows and it is indeed shameful.Since the emergence of this blog- I heard that he has cancelled pastors day and its bullshit.Read the Bible and pray for a God fearing Pastor.
In thi blog Christians have shared about their experiences- and out it came-Whoremongering Pastors, Hopeless Gossips,Lazy Pastors ,Scandal Mongers who scandal the whole church by preying on the gullibles, Pastors and even a Pig Sty Pastor!!And of course- the "Sacrificial Giving" conning pastors & demonic racist pastors.
The church has entered a new day.There is no religious persecution in this land-not yet-but there are wolves lurking in church hiding behind various religious titles.So be on your guard Brethren and God bless you all.
And if your Pastor is God fearing-give him a good blessing this year.Good Pastors are rare- these days- mine is one.We are so blessed to be under his ministry and we can see the difference between him and our previous AOG religious fraud with is so called Rev status.
Even the Malays in the neighbourhood have so much reverence for our Present pastor.And this Christmas- our church have bought RM20,000 worth of foodstuff to be distributed to the poor --and the Church youth handled the money!!!And the youth prayed and decided that 1/2 of the goods should go to the poor among Muslims in the neighbourhood!!!
Racist Christianity has ended in our Church.May Go above be praised!! God bless you all.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at December 23, 2011 3:58 PM
The Church has always survived persecution but it has not been successful against "religious demons operating within the church" They are usually good with the Bible but they could not care less about those not belonging to their group.
It is written that the "worker is worthy of his wages" but these days the money appeal in many churches is just unbelievable.
Then there is this Pastor who talks like Jesus is living next door to him.Come On- most of it is just head knowledge.
During my entire lifetime within a church I have never witness any Biblical miracles in any Church- like blind seeing, the lame walking, lepers cleansed or any Christian walking on the waters.
All I have witnessed is "legs getting longer -migraine disappearing -believers falling down "slain in the spirit"- which the ushers quickly cover with RM9:90 blankets Made In China OR Taiwan.
Sure some Words preached is powerful but I believe the same religious atmosphere has settled over the churches as it was in Jesus day when He said " Truly there were many lepers in Israel in the days of Elijah but to none of them was Elijah sent save to Naaman the Syrian...
During Elijah's ministry- God used him to heal an outsider when there were so many sick in the Holy Land.!! Why?? You can guess.
There is very little going on in churches these days except the ambition to build bigger,higher and more expensive then the church down the road.
Christians be on your guard.They are many religious demons in the air and they are using preachers who "outwardly appear as godly people"
GOD BLESS THIS BLOG- THOSE WHO READ AND THOSE WHO WRITE--LETS NOT SEAL OUR LIPS BECAUSE THE WORDS ARE UNPLEASANT.THERE IS A TIME TO TALK.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at December 23, 2011 5:30 PM
Today is the 23rd of December 2011. Some years ago all was well at CC/.THE CHURCH IN KL.WHATEVER WENT WRONG?? WHY DID THIS EVER HAD TO HAPPEN??? --
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at December 23, 2011 7:12 PM
Many years ago, when CC asked for money, it was always "what you give is between you and God".
Then it became "fulfill your pledges".
Now it has deteriorated to "give sacrificially" or "give a good offering".
CC was a prominent church years ago in Malaysia - say you are from Calvary and the response you get is "that is a big church and is a rich church". CC was very much respected in the Christian community.
But sad to say, this has indeed changed, say you are from Calvary and many will remark "I heard that there is a lot of problems in Calvary". (Then I will encourage them to read CT and many do.)
Why did this happen to CC? Simple! It is all due to one man who has used vile means to seize power for his personal glory. With so much that has been exposed regarding his misconduct and arrogance, this recalcitrant pastor has not shown any repentance nor regret even though many attempts had been made by concerned Christian leaders to resolve the issue. He is hell-bent on achieving his own vision of leaving a legacy in the form of a freemasonry designed monument, and putting the church into a financial crisis for years to come.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at December 23, 2011 11:07 PM
A Shift in Tactics at Offering Time in CC and their satellite churches
We noticed initially it was the SP, then PG2, then the APs, followed by the pastors asking and reminding the congregation about their tithes, CCC building fund, missions giving, love offerings for Xmas and what else.
To their disappointment, the use of high-level, high pressure pastors did not work well as the response from the congregation was poor.
So, they think it is time to change tactics – using a lower level BOD members who are professionals in their field of businesses to do the “begging job” for them. For a moment, they forget or conveniently forget what are the responsibilities of deacons in a church.
Acts 6 spells out clearly (a) the apostles were “to give their attention to prayer and the ministry of the word” to the sheep (and not wasting time thinking of building bigger churches and Xmas gifts whilst (b) the responsibility of the deacons is “to wait on tables” – distributing food to widows in the church and taking care of the poor and the sick in the church. Are you doing that, deacons? What a shame!
It is clear cc church leadership has NO CONCERN for their church members and only keen to get as much as they can from the congregation.
Blessed Christmas to all.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at December 24, 2011 7:07 AM
Reply Forward
Dear Anonymous Dec 23, 2011 7.12pm
You asked "Whatever went wrong??"
Money, money changes everything.
Power, power changes everything.
Greed, greed changes everything.
Idolatry, idolatry for Greed, Money & Power changes the teaching.
Faking "love thy neighbour" nowadays still will not change everything.
Blessed Christmas, Joy Peace and Love for the New Year to all young & old, and their families here and overseas.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at December 24, 2011 9:55 AM
Just look at their lifestyle compared to many of the cc sheep. Even their children's phones are much more sophisticated than many of cc breadwinners. What more of the pastors themselves.
...............................
LEAVE THEM ALONE-THEY ARE LIKE BLIND LEADING THE BLIND.IF ONE BLIND LEADS ANOTHER BLIND MAN- BOTH OF THEM WILL FALL INTO THE PIT.THEY TAKE OUR $$$ AND GO FOR NICE HOLIDAYS HERE AND THERE WHILE WE CAN ONLY AFFORD TO TAKE A DAY TRIP TO MALACCA WITH OUR FAMILIES.WHAT A LOAD OF CRAP!!! GOD HOUSE HAS BEEN CONVERTED INTO A DEN OF THIEVES AND ROBBERS!!HOW PATHETIC!!
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at December 24, 2011 1:48 PM
Today at the combined service at dewan san choon, the service got off to a fine start. The people were in a joyous mood.
It was too good to be true! Came offertory time, the tactless PO was reprimanding those who did not give tithes and offerings and those who failed to fulfill their pledges faithfully. It was an uncouth mini sermon from him.
It was so disgusting coming from PO who is the so-called Executive Pastor. Shame on you, PO! You are really a spoilsport.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at December 25, 2011 4:14 PM
Why genuine pastors nowadays are so few? Since PG takes over as superintendent of AOG, the situation begun to change to bad. Genuine pastors were not selected into AOG committee. In fact, they did nto even get any title of Rev, while some have left AOG to help in Anglican church. The AOG pastors under the wolf-like PG begun to turn corrupt and over the years, most corrupt. Most think of building fame by large convention and gain money. From the least to the greatest, all greedy for gain. PG to Robert Lim; Richard Yung to David Seah. The trend of Mammon corrupt the soul. We desperately need revival in our leadership. The pastors network has been a money-lover club since PG takes over as superintendent of AOG; and it is no better under the current leader.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at December 26, 2011 1:56 AM
WAS JESUS BORN ON THE 25TH OF DECEMBER??
I dropped by in church on Christmas day but beneath the singing and the clapping- I noticed many lonely faces.I tried to join into the worship but I just could not.Life is okay for me but hardly one word preached touched me for the entire year.I went away as empty as I came in. Anyway I put in a double offering into the offering bag and I do hope it satisfied God above.Looking at the expectant crowd --can anyone really meet their deepest needs of this multitude in church??
I am a divorce lawyer and this year alone I handled 105 divorce cases-[mostly Joint Petitions] half of them from Christians.( many had married on Valentines Day and the others were married on the so called auspicious 8-8-2008, 9-9-2009,10-10-10.Many were married in church.
I tend to belive that the real issues of living on planet earth are not handled by the church leaders these days.The Christian is led into church and he believes that by virtue of his belief in Jesus he is given an "entitlement". So when nothing happens or when they fall into debt- they become deeply disillussioned with their state of affairs.
There are many church buildings coming up in KL these days and it costs an enormous amount of money.Yet many in the church live a hand to mouth existence.Church leaders need to sit down and reflect deeply on their ministries.For a start- powershould not be centralized in 1 person within church.
"...lest in preaching to others I myself am disqualified." Paul.
KING EDWARD- The King is under no law.
Chief Justice Coke- The King has no power but that which the law of the land allows him!!
King- This is treason!!Arrest him!!
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at December 26, 2011 1:31 PM
Comment on Anony. Dec 26th. 1.31pm, WAS JESUS BORN ON THE 25TH DECEMBER?
Encylopedias had stated that Jesus never was born on 25th Dec. 25th Dec was a festival celebrated by ancient pagans to be the birth of their sun-god, Baal. How this day had crept inside churches to be celebrated as Christ-Mass (a mother & son worship) can be obtained from the various websites. It came from the Roman church & all festivals of the Roman Catholic Institution are all pagan rooted.
I am sure most church leaders knew it, yet today millions of christians observed & celebrated Christmas as the birth of Christ without even checking the origin of such a festival. The day Jesus was born must be very important, so why then did God never make known to mankind the actual date of the birth of His Son? Something we all must really ponder.
Posted in CT2 @ December 26, 2011 10:35 PM
Every year when we were in CC we gave to the pastors' Christmas gift. Today we are in DUMC and for the last three years we did not hear any appeal on behalf of the pastors. Instead the appeal was for an anniversary offering to be given away to 143 missions and Christian works. Last year's target was RM3.0 million but the people gave RM3.8 million. This year's target is RM4.0 million and I am sure the Lord will bless beyond the target. Every single sen will be given away. That is mission giving.
Posted to CT2 @ December 27, 2011 9:59 AM
One think I can never understand - the CC saga has been brought to light at least 2-3 years ago and till today, I still cannot comprehend as to why so many of the members remain faithful at CC under the "leadership" of PG1 and PG2 & Co?
I left CC years ago and never spend even 1 minute regreting the decision. Anyway, thanks to CT for being steadfast in highlighting the various devilish schemes at CC and I must say the TOTT initiative is indeed a successful one!
For the rest, my advice and appeal would be - Please leave CC now - at least you will have 1 lesser things to complaint about....
Cheers!
PLim
Anonymous Dec 27, 2011 9:59
".....appeal was for anniversary offerings to be given away to 143 missions and Christian works"
That's the way to go. Not like some pastors who liken their church to MacDonalds and other churches to KFCs (false 'storehouse' teachings). The reason why they say that is because greed and the world values and system have got unto them.
It's no longer seeing the brethen as being in the Body Of Christ, but seeing each other as being MacDonalds and KFCs. It's akin to seeing themselves as a body corporate instead of being part of the body of Christ. So it has now come down to being all about us, about the money, about establishing and extending our fame and brand like Calvary Church and Jesus now becomes just a means. Sad story indeed, but think about it, and you will at least somewhat agree with me. But with God's help and grace, we can change all that and return to the true gospel that the apostle preached, and not be enslaved by some modern days word of faith prosperity gospel. Brethen be like the Bereans, check the Word and beware the deceits of these prosperity pastors and teachers.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at December 27, 2011 1:09 PM
Some brethen make an issue (or mountain out of molehill) of the date of Christ birth. Of course it's not 22nd Dec. Even in Malaysia , when we celebrate the Agong's bitrhday, we know it's not the Agong actual birth date, but still we celebrate it with a public holiday.
Christ actual birhday might well be any day in the calender year, no one can be certain for sure which day. But to those who have a personal relationship with God and knows Christ as Saviour or Immanuel,then the joy and celebration of christmas should be everyday of the year. Don't make the date a divisive issue.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at December 27, 2011 1:28 PM
If tithing is no longer applicable in the new covenant, why many churches in our country are still encouraging it? (both AOG churches and mainline churches)?
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at December 27, 2011 3:06 PM
Anonymous says: " If tithing is no longer applicable in the new covenant, why many churches in our country are still encouraging it ?"
Then these pastors are being dishonest, irresponsible by preaching wrong doctrines.It's not in the New Testament and it's no where like in the Old Covenant which do not apply anyway.
Plain simple, it's just a new created doctrine and practice with no biblical basis. They think we are still in the old Rpman Catholic time where they can make their own decrees and instructions. Not anymore. Every brethen can now read and check the bible like the Bereans.Also these pastors have no faith. They are afraid that the members will no longer give generously if they preached the biblical truth. So they keep up the false teachings. So much for these preachers who are supposed to be champion of faith.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at December 27, 2011 6:56 PM
In response to Anony. Dec 27, 1:28pm.
Dear brethen, authorities/authors had indicated Christ was probably born between the month of Sept and October. If we should ever celebrate the birth of Christ, shouldn't it be somewhere in those months. Why should it be particular in December and on the 25th, when history had confimed that it was on this day the ancient pagans celebrated a festival marking the birth of their sun-god. So, why linked the birth of Christ to this ancient pagan festival? Lets look into our Bibles. Did any of Christ's disciples and believers in their days ever celebrated such a festival? If Christ had wanted us to celebrate His birthday, would you not think He would have commanded us to do so, but its not in the Bible. Instead the Bible warned us against observing
the traditions of the pagans.
What is Christmas? What has Santa Claus, christmas trees, jingle bells, snowman, yuletides has got to do with salvation of the our Lord? CHRIST-MASS is a calendar of the Roman church, a mother & son worship (Nimrod & Semiramis) which is not true christianity. Remember, this ancient pagan festival was celebrated way before Jesus was born.
I know many will disagree with me & still continue to celebrate christmas and I won't condemn them who wishes to do so. As for me, its a personal relationship between the Lord and myself. So I will stop making any further comments on this subject.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at December 27, 2011 9:23 PM
When i was a teenage, the church does not teach tithing. Offering were collected by free will without pressure; by putting money into a box, without bags passing around. This style happen in many churches.
Those days, elders an ddeacons don't have to be of wealthy class; but thye must have godly integrity (not boneless as we see in CC today).
Tithing teaching only popular, when one day an indian pastor who has a chinese wife preach that God want tithing and if we don't give 10%, we rob God!! But our pastors do not agree with him, neither the congregation. Tithing teaching by him is a strange teaching to us.
But then, this tithing teacher indian pastor become more powerful by institution authority in AOG, while my pastors don't want to be in AOG committee. So the tithing teaching spread, until today where many pastors teach about tithing. The so called indian pastor with a chinese wife is none other than your dictator, PG.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at December 27, 2011 11:24 PM
MISQUOTED UNBIBLICAL SCRIPTUERES EQUALS LICENSE TO STEAL
Christians today worldwide face greater persecution than ever before. what is most alarming is that an ever growing number of church congregations are too ignorant or too complacent about THREATS FROM WITHIN CHURCHES - from their own SATANIC PRIESTS under the guise of AOG "ANNOINTED PASTORS" propagating and spreading false teachings, liberally spiced with half truths and blatant lies - which the congregation desire to hear. alternatively, these congregations become so brainwashed, they become spiritually, emotionally and mentally "addicted to" and "drug dependent on" these false teachings from these scheming satanic prophets. For example, the distortion of biblical truths from biblical scriptures by these evil leaders concerning tithes in the Old Testament, via skilful misinterpretation by these false teachers became A LICENSE TO STEAL FROM THE CONGREGATIONS OF DUMB SHEEP WORLDWIDE.
These satanic priests no longer worship the True and Living God whom they betrayed via their their treachery and blasphemy committed against God. Instead, they openly pay tributes to Mormon. They love money (for themselves, not others) more than God.
They think they have the license to steal from others !!!!!!
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at December 28, 2011 12:55 AM
Anonymous Dec27, 2011 9:23PM
No one is sure the exact day of Christ's birth. Even Sept-Oct is speculation. For those who have a personal relationship with God, the celebration of the Word becoming flesh can be on 25 Dec or any other day of the year. In fact in our hearts the celebration of christmas should be everyday.
No doubt today's celebration is worldly but it's for us to put back the right message of Christmas to the world, to remind everyone the true reason for the season.
And of course you are right , Christ did not command us to celebrate His birthday but it's not forbidden either. He also did not command us to celebrate Easter and there is no record the apostles and the first church celebrated it. But still we do, and it helps get the true message of John 3:16 to the world. However to choose to celebrate or not to celebrate Easter or Christmas is a personal choice. They are not ordinances that are mandatory for us to observe. The ordinances from Christ who commanded the Church to observe them are the Lord's Supper and the command to carry out the Great Commission which is proclaiming the gospel, making disciples and baptising them.
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at December 28, 2011 7:47 AM
Anonymous Dec 27, 2011 11:24PM
Todays practice of 'tithes' in churches are neither of Old Covenant nor New Covenant. They don't correspond to practices and teachings in either. It's a new teaching with no biblical basis, Today it's taken advantage of by greedy word of faith prosperity pastors and evangelists to deceive the brethen who are fearful of questioning them or too lazy to check the bible..
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at December 28, 2011 8:04 AM
This "we are giving you an opportunity" to do this & that - the Pastors seem to think that the members are beholden to them and owe them a favour; lording it over the sheep. Frightening isn't it?
Posted by Anonymous to Calvary Today 2 at December 28, 2011 5:32 PM
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