Wednesday, April 1, 2009

The 5 Proposed Resolutions for EGM on Sat 4 April

This coming Saturday’s EGM has been called by the BOD to consider and approve 5 resolutions pertaining to amendments to several sections of the Church Constitution.

CT wishes to state here that our Church’s way of communicating such Notices of EGM to members all these years leaves much room for improvement. For a 48-year old Church and one our size, we are certainly still very backward and disorganised where communication is concerned.

All Notices of EGM (and AGM) should be despatched to members as early as possible via the postal mail, email, handouts and church website in addition to announcements from the pulpit. All such notices should be accompanied by the full details of the proposed resolutions with supporting explanations and rationale. This is to enable members to study, comprehend and evaluate the proposals so that they will be in a position to vote wisely and with understanding. Early despatch of such notices will also allow members sufficient time to provide feedback and suggestions to further improve on the proposals, if need be.

Of course, the BOD's present style of notification is ideal for an authoritative and dictatorial leadership which do not wish to be transparent or which wants members to be mere blind followers. We hope this is not the case. We also hope that these few changes are not the completion of the Financial Governance and Constitutional Review and ‘Moving Forward’ plan that our church has been talking about. It will be a great shame and a despicable scam if this is so.

The 5 Proposed Resolutions are:

1. Proposed amendments to Church Constitution RULE XII: FINANCIAL PROVISIONS, Item 2c

2. Proposed amendment to Church Constitution RULE XII: FINANCIAL PROVISIONS, Items 3a, 3b and 3c

3. Proposed amendment to Church Constitution BY-LAWS ARTICLE IV: FINANCIAL PROVISIONS. Item 2

4. Proposed amendment to Church Constitution BY-LAWS ARTICLE III: THE BOARD OF DEACONS. Item 3: Transition Period

5. Proposed amendment to Church Constitution RULE XI: OFFICE-BEARERS, Item 6 : NOMINATING COMMITTEE

Details of the Changes and CT’s comments

1. Proposed amendment to Church Constitution RULE XII: FINANCIAL PROVISIONS, Item 2c

Existing Wordings
As soon as possible after the end of each financial year, a statement of receipts and payments and a balance sheet for the year shall be prepared and audited by the Auditors. The audited accounts shall be submitted for approval at the next Annual General Meeting and copies shall be made available at the registered office or place of meeting of the Church for the perusal of Voting members.

Proposed Changes
As soon as possible after the end of each financial year, a statement of income and expenditure and a balance sheet for the year shall be prepared and audited by the External Auditors. The audited accounts shall be submitted for approval at the next Annual General Meeting and copies shall be made available at the registered office or place of meeting of the Church for the perusal of Voting members.

CT’s comments
The proposed change is to facilitate the engagement of external auditors to audit the accounts. This is what the concerned members have proposed to the Treasurer, SP and BOD more than a year ago and should be well received. However, to re-affirm what was established at last year’s AGM, the audited accounts should include the Missions Department accounts and all the Extended Ministries and Auxiliary Ministries’ accounts besides the Main Church accounts.


If these other accounts are not included, then members are advised to reject the resolution.


2. Proposed amendment to Church Constitution RULE XII: FINANCIAL PROVISIONS, Items 3a, 3b and 3c

Existing Wordings
a) One or more Auditors shall be elected at a General Meeting by a simple majority vote. The Auditors shall not be members of the Board of Deacons, the Board of Trustees, Church Elders or paid employees of the Church.

b) The Board of Deacons shall nominate at least two candidates to each vacancy.

c) The Auditors shall be required to audit the accounts of the Church for the year, and to prepare a report or certificate for the Annual General Meeting. They may also be required by the Board of Deacons to audit the accounts of the Church for any period within their tenure of office at any date, and to make a report to the Board of Deacons.

Proposed Changes
a) External Auditors shall be nominated by the Board of Deacons and shall be elected at a General Meeting by a simple majority vote.

b) The Board of Deacons is authorized to fix their remuneration.

c) The External Auditors shall be required to audit the accounts of the for the year, and to prepare a report or certificate for the Annual General Meeting. They may also be required by the Board of Deacons to audit the accounts of the Church for any period within their tenure of office at any date, and to make a report to the Board of Deacons.

CT’s comments
Again, this proposed change is to facilitate the engagement of external auditors to audit the accounts. Again, our stand is that the audited accounts should include the Missions Department accounts and all the Extended Ministries and Auxiliary Ministries’ accounts besides the Main Church accounts.


If these other accounts are not included, then members are advised to reject the resolution.


3. Proposed amendment to Church Constitution BY-LAWS ARTICLE IV: FINANCIAL PROVISIONS, Item 2

Existing Wordings
Subject to any resolution passed at a meeting of the Board of Deacons, all cheques or withdrawal notices on the Church’s accounts shall be signed jointly by any two persons mentioned herein below provided always that:

i) Below RM 5,000.00 – any two persons from Groups 1 and 3
ii) RM 5,000.00 and above – any two persons from Groups 1 and 2 provided always that both of them cannot be from the same group

Group 1
a) Senior Pastor
b) A nominee of the Senior Pastor approved by the Board of Deacons

Group 2
a) Secretary of the Board of Deacons
b) Treasurer
c) One member of the Board of Deacons as may be approved by the Board of Deacons

Group 3
a) Church Office and Operations Manager
b) Finance Administrator

Proposed Changes
Subject to any resolution passed at a meeting of the Board of Deacons, all cheques or withdrawal notices on the Church’s accounts shall be signed by any two persons mentioned herein below provided always that:

i) Below RM 5,000.00 – Financial Controller and any other person from Group 3.
ii) RM 50,000.00 or less – any two persons from Group 2 and 3 provided always that both of them cannot be from the same Group.
iii) Above RM 50,000.00 – any two persons from Group 1 and 2 provided always that both of them cannot be from the same Group.

Group 1
a) Senior Pastor
b) A nominee of the Senior Pastor approved by the Board of Deacons

Group 2
a) Secretary of the Board of Deacons
b) Treasurer

c) One member of the Board of Deacons as may be approved by the Board of Deacons

Group 3
a) Financial Controller
b) Executive Administrator
c) A nominee approved by the Board of Deacons

CT’s comments
The only change is the Group 3 signatories. As there are plans to appoint a Financial Controller, including that person as a signatory is acceptable. However, adding in the Executive Administrator (position now held by Jim Guneratnam) and a nominee approved by the BOD is highly suspicious. Who will be this nominee?


Further, the concerned members’ stand is that all pastors, including SP should not be a cheque signatory. A nominee of SP as a signatory is also not acceptable. Since the church is not a business enterprise belonging to SP, there is no necessity for him to appoint a nominee.

The resolution as it is, is totally unacceptable and should be rejected by members unless an amended resolution acceptable to members is put to vote at the EGM.


4. Proposed amendment to Church Constitution BY-LAWS ARTICLE III: THE BOARD OF DEACONS, Item 3: Transition Period

CT’s comments
This resolution seeks to remove this entire clause which relates to the appointment of deacons during the transition period following the adoption of our Constitution By-Laws in the early years. This clause is no longer applicable and its deletion will not have any effect on the Constitution.


Members can vote in favour of this resolution.


5. Proposed amendment to Church Constitution RULE XI: OFFICE-BEARERS, Item 6: NOMINATING COMMITTEE

Existing Wordings
The Nominating Committee shall comprise the Senior Pastor and a minimum of six Voting members of the Church appointed by the Board of Deacons and approved by the Senior Pastor . Two of these should be the Elders (if Elders have been appointed and are available) but none of the six Voting members so appointed shall be existing members of the Board of Deacons.

Proposed Changes
The Nominating Committee shall comprise the Senior Pastor and a minimum of six Voting members of the Church appointed jointly by the Board of Deacons and the Church Elders (if Church Elders have been appointed). None of the six Voting members appointed shall be existing members of the Board of Deacons.

CT’s comments
The removal of the requirement of SP’s approval of the Nominating Committee members is a right step. However, to avoid any undue influence by SP on the nominees for deaconship, SP should not be on the Nomination Committee. The Committee members must also not be related to any of the existing deacons to avoid any conflict of interest.

The resolution as it is, should be rejected by members unless it is amended to exclude SP from the Nomination Committee.

41 comments:

Whisper a prayer said...

Dear Heavenly Father,

Thank You, as always, for Your abundant blessings.

I may never know until I reach heaven how many times You have had Your angels protect me from the wicked one.

I do appreciate You watching over me and my loved ones.

Lord, I pray this day for all of the backsliders.
Lord, draw them back to Yourself. Forgive them and be merciful to them.

Thank You, that Your mercy endureth for ever.
Lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one.

Lord, thank you for correcting me when I have missed You in some way.
I do want to stay on the path of life.
Keep Your children in the path of holiness and righteousness.

I ask this in the name of Jesus.
Amen.

SoonLing said...

Since CT called for fast and prayer for 3 days, let's put in a prayer.

Let God's consuming fire flows and burnt all the unrighteousness and injustice.

LET US ASK GOD TO BUILT HIS THRONE ONCE AGAIN IN OUR CHURCH.

RIGHTEOUSNESS AND JUSTICE ARE THE FOUNDATION OF HIS THRONE.

LET GOD ARISE
LET GOD ARISE
LET GOD ARISE

AMEN

Josh said...

If the opportunity presents itself, I would really like to meet up the person(s) who drafted this document. I would like to understand the intention of someone who is “willing” to entrust the pastoral care of the flock to a pastor and deacons that they no longer respect, while withholding the same over the “more important” aspects of church governance like finance and decision making.

The “offending” resolutions are designed to put in check and balances to ensure the application and demonstration of stewardship for God’s resources. But Calvary Today’s suggestion for the removal of Senior Pastor as a signatory or to curtail his participation in nomination not only casts doubts on his integrity and deprives us of our leader’s wisdom and vision, it shifts the sphere of influence to other members of the leadership who are less well-known and under far less scrutiny. It is hypocritical to suggest that we cannot trust our Pastors to co-sign a cheque and to best leave it to someone else.

Can I ask bluntly, what is the real agenda here?

If indeed the signatories and approval committees were to be left, assuming, to the leading members of Calvary Today, would Hong Meng, Dr Lum, Liza, KC etc. tolerate the same level of scrutiny?

I am not against scrutiny, mind you – but I truly think that the resolutions are fair and open to interpretation, hence the need for an EGM to clarify and move forward. In that respect, while the leadership have not spoken directly on the matter, I believe they are listening and I think the resolutions show that Calvary Church is reviewing its process of church governance and accountability.

In that respect, I find CT’s objections seemingly personal and straying away from the initial proclaimed intention to seek truth, transparency and all that. If it’s not to change and edify, why bother at all?

On the 3 items of prayer, item 2 writes: A good turnout of members and that they will be bold to stand up for truth, good governance, righteousness and fairness.

There has been ample criticism of the associate pastors and their role in all this. Personally I know some of them and have been blessed tremendously – as many of you too I am sure. Tell me, if our pastors who are aware of the real situation are bold enough to stand up for what they see if right, does that make them fair game for criticism? Remember, the explicit call of Calvary Today and the Teh Tarik Group is a quest for truth and not justification. The thing about truth, it speaks for itself and does not need to be trumpeted.

There is little doubt that some of the documents featured here are well authored and thought out by learned persons, but as I read more into the details I feel that some of it is also well “crafted” to send a message. I am not comfortable with the idea of Calvary Today as accuser, judge and executor.

Note to CT: I don’t suppose my comments can be posted as an article if only to offer another point of view. In that respect, I am ready for my comments to come under closer scrutiny.

Thank You CT said...

Thank you CT.

Please continue with the good work.

It is really helpful indeed to have some clarifications from CT on all the resolutions. Not all members can easily understand all these resolutions stuff.

It was to also know where CT stands on all these resolutions.

Thank you.

O Lord Answer us said...

The fire of the LORD...may it descend to show that God is here in our midst and He is God, our Lord and King!

1 Kings 18:36-39

36. "At the time of sacrifice, the prophet Elijah stepped forward and prayed: "O Lord, God of Abraham, Isaac and Israel,

let it be known today that You are God in Israel and I am Your servant and have done all these things at Your command.

37. Answer me , O Lord, answer me, so these people will know that You, O Lord are GOD and that you are turning their hearts back again."

38. Then the fire of the LORD fell and burned up the sacrifice , the wood, the stones and also licked up the water in the trench.

39. When all the people saw this, they fell prostrate and cried,

"The LORD - He is GOD! The LORD - He is GOD!"

Dear Heavenly Father,

Hear the humble cries of Your people. May You show Your mercy and compassion to your people... May the fire of the Lord come and show forth Your holiness and righteousness.

May true repentance come forth from Your people. May we turn our hearts to God our Father. May justice and righteousness be restored in our church!

Lord God we exalt You Name on high.

TTG Supporter said...

Josh, before u make further comments, pls go read ALL the articles posted in CT from last year till now. Look at the facts and issues. The problems that have occured was because the Senior Pastor has been giving too much power and authority to handle church funds and he has, as such, has misused his power and authority. In order for a pastor to be truly effective in being a shepherd, it is best that he just sticks to teaching and preaching and stay away from temptation, ie. Money.

WWJD ??? said...

Read Acts 6:1 - 6 (the appointment of the first Board of Deacons) as follows .....

1 But as the believers rapidly multiplied, there were rumblings of discontent. Those who spoke Greek complained against those who spoke Hebrew, saying that their widows were being discriminated against in the daily distribution of food.

2 So the twelve (apostles) called a meeting of all the believers. "We apostles should spend our time preaching and teaching the Word of God, not administering a food program," they said.

3. "Now look around among yourselves, brothers, and select seven men who are well respected and are full of the Holy Spirit and wisdom. We will put them in charge of this business.

4. Then we can spend our time in prayer and preaching and teaching the Word."

5. This idea pleased the whole group, and they chose the following: Stephen, Philip, Procorus, Nicanor, Timon, Parmenas and Nicholas of Antioch.

6. These seven were presented to the apostles, who prayed for them as they laid their hands on them.

(... New Living Translation)

Nowhere in the above scripture does it mention that one of the twelve apostles was appointed as the chairman of the seven deacons. Thus, our PG should NOT be the chairman of the deacons; he should focus on spiritual matters & leave the serving to the deacons. (Worse still, PG uses the associate pastors as bouncers at AGMs/EGMs & as office boys by sending them off to deliver letters, etc.)

By being the chairman of the deacons & also the chairman of the Nominating Committee for deacons, PG's faith in God is questionable. If PG pleases God in his actions as a SP, God will surely send the right men/women as deacons to assist him, plus God will surely keep him as the shepherd in His church.

Why Josh? said...

If Josh cant see what's wrong with any of the resolutions, its clear that either his mind is hazy or he's blind or he's has his reasons only known to him for saying what he has said.

Follow Acts 6: 1-6 said...

Kudus TTG & CT,

Looks like you guys read the Bible and follow what the Apostles did in Acts.

Pastors are to pray, preach and teach the Word of God.

Deacons are to serve or administer the church.

Thanks WWJD??? for that Scripture clarification.

Josh said...

I have read the postings and articles from the start. Have you taken the time to understand my point of view? If it is accountability we are looking for, it is being addressed. But what I read over and over again is that someone is corrupt which to-date has not been substantiated.

Since when has everything Calvary Today written qualify automatically as fact? Are we to believe the infallibility of TTG? No - even TTG would not claim this.

And for pointing this out I am being judged for being hazy, blind or have an ulterior motive?

Look again at the scripture passage given by WWJD. Look at verse 3. Who put them in charge? Under the recommendation of Calvary Today, all the twelve apostles would have no say...

I have written for the start that I support a call for stewardship. I think the resolutions are being proposed to introduce check and balances. But Calvary Today who positions itself as the steward for what is right needs also to hold up in the light of scrutiny instead of hiding behind dismissive comments.

Tell you what TTG supporter, before you comment about me, why not read the content yourself - but with an unbiased mind.

Acts 6: 3 & 4 said...

Quoting WWJD??? on Acts 6:3, "Now look around among yourselves, brothers, and select seven men who are well respected and are full of the Holy Spirit and wisdom. We will put them in charge of this business."

"We" refers to the Apostles, "Them" refers to the 7 deacons. So what's your problem with this verse?

NIV says, "We will turn this responsibility over to them" v4, "and will give our attention to prayer and the ministry of the Word." Very clear and direct words.

Josh said...

I have no problem with this verse. It clearly states where the role of the Apostle is assigning the responsibility... now why don't you look at the proposed revisions to the resolution and see how this measures up?

TTG Supporter said...

Josh, what makes you think I haven't? So, are you saying that those of us who still choose to support truth, transparency and governance are only doing so because we are bias? I find your implications not only offensive but also unfair. Do you mean to say only people like yourself are able to have a point of view? How about my point of view?

WWJD ??? said...

Josh, O Josh,

Do read Acts 6 verses 3 & 4 slowly & carefully again. For your convenience, I am reproducing them below .....

3. "Now look around among yourselves, brothers, and select seven men who are well respected and are full of the Holy Spirit and wisdom. We will put them in charge of this business.

4. Then we can spend our time in prayer and preaching and teaching the Word."

You may be right that it was the twelve apostles who put the seven in charge (verse 3b) BUT the choice of the seven was by the congregation (verse 3a) & the twelve had no say at all, for they didn't even nominate any of the seven.

The twelve apostles just TRUSTED & have FAITH in the congregation that they will be able to select seven men who are well respected and are full of the Holy Spirit and wisdom.

So does PG come close to the twelve apostles? Does PG have any TRUST & FAITH in the congregation, like the twelve apostles?

Both the answers would be negative as PG wants to be the chairman of the nominating committee for deacons so that he can influence the choice of nominees so that regardless of which nominee(s) get voted in, it is still PG's YES-man/woman.

So Josh, if you have read your Bible diligently & have asked God to help you to discern His Word, you will realise that CT's recommendation is scriptural & is actually in line with the twelve apostles' decision & action in the choice of the original seven deacons.

I take my hat off to CT & the TTG members for studying their Bibles so diligently.

Acts 6:3 said...

NIV Acts 6:3 again, "BROTHERS, choose seven men from among you..." The ppl were told by the Apostles to choose, not the Apostles chose the 7 men. The Apostles said, "You choose" then, "WE WILL TURN THIS RESPONSIBILITY OVER TO THEM AND WE WILL GIVE OUR ATTENTION TO PRAYER AND THE MINISTRY OF THE WORD." It's that simple.

Josh said...

Dear TTG Supporter, I do support the call for transparency and good governance. But I also support the need to not to make unsubstantiated accusations until they are properly addressed. Silence does not equate guilt and I hope this will be addressed behind closed doors in the fellowship of church brethren this weekend.

What I cannot understand is the implication that just because I have a differing view that I should read from the start the "facts" of Calvary Today. I have my reasons to question some of the testimony, but that would mean injuring the person of Dr Lum which I will refrain as I am not equipped to judge.

But I would question some of the conclusions made for the simple reason that I feel it is designed to discredit rather than to seek truth. I do not mean to offend you or any other person in this forum - but I do urge all to just take an open mind. If that is unfair to you, that is sincerely not my intention.

Likewise if you think I am wrong, tell me on point rather than by being dismissive.

And WWJD, again I point to the fact that it was the apostles who assigned the authority - I never implied more than that except to parallel that with the call by Calvary Today to remove Senior Pastor entirely from the process.

Again where in good governance does it say that we cannot trust our Pastor to be a part of the decision, but we should trust another who is less scrutinized to do the same? They key is being part of the decision and not the sole discretion of one, hence the changes that are being proposed.

If CT, TTG and WWJD have read their Bibles and understood it well, praise the Lord. But if reference to this is merely to point out some spiritual superiority over me, then I have nothing to say in my defence.

Viola said...

Hello everyone and hello Josh

The problems we are facing today is because of one man. We all know who. Since removing this one man is not an option at this point in time (he is still in power, and obviously will not call for such a resolution so that members can vote), we do with what we can best. You are right to realise that many 'sheep' have lost their respect for the pastor and deacons. With all my respect Josh, you need to hear others out when they tell their personal stories, their personal encounters with things that ACTUALLY happened behind close doors, things that go on beyond the worship services. You might not have any close friends or someone you love been abused and hurt by the things that go on in there. Perhaps then, you might just have a little more empathy. I have to say that some comments made on CT is a little too emotional and uncalled for, biased at times, but hey, many of these come from broken hearts. I am not saying that that is excusable to be careless with our words. They are not lashing out against you. THey're just a little 'geram' with all that's going on and feeling pretty helpless. Something needs to change in this place. Something fresh and clean and new where God can truly be God.

TTG is doing a brave thing. They are not perfect. But at least, they are real.

God's Promises to Our Cries said...

Solomon's Prayer of Dedication

2 Chronicles 6:29-31

29. "and when a prayer or plea is made by any of your people Israel -each one aware of his afflictions and pains, and spreading out his hands toward this temple -

30. then hear from heaven, your dwelling place. Forgive, and deal with each man according to all he does, since You know the hearts of men),

31. so that they will fear You, and walk in Your ways all the time they live in the land You gave our fathers."

2 Chronicles 7:1-3

1. When Solomon finished praying, fire came down from heaven and consumed the burnt offering and the sacrifices, and the glory of the LORD filled the temple..

3. When all the Israelites saw the fire coming down and the glory of the LORD above the temple,

they knelt on the pavement with their faces to the ground, and they worshiped and gave thanks to the LORD saying,

"He is good;
His love endures forever."

12. "The Lord appeared to him (Solomon) at night and said:

"I have heard your prayer and have chosen this place for Myself as a temple for sacrifices.

13. When I shut up the heavens so that there is no rain, or command locusts to devour the land or send a plague among My people,

14. if My people, who are called by My Name, will humble themselves and pray and seek My face

and turn from their wicked ways,

then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land.

15. Now My eyes will be open and My ears attentive to the prayers offered in this place.

16. I have chosen and consecrated this temple so that My Name will may be there forever.

My eyes and My heart will always be there."

Dear Heavenly Father,

Thank you for being such a loving personal God to us, You promise to hear our prayers and pleas and You will deal in Your righteous ways. You promise to forgive us of all our sins and to cleanse us and restore us to be whole again.

What a wonderful assurance to us.

May His gloriuos Name be praised at all times!

AMEN.

Simpleman said...

I'm in total agreement with Acts 6:3 (of course quoting) NIV Acts 6:3 again, "Brother, choose seven men from among you..."

To my simple mind, the people were simply told by the Apostles to choose the 7; the Apostles didn't choose.

It's that PLAIN SIMPLE. It can't get simpler than this. So fellow brethren (including PG and BOD), don't complicate it further. Just do it THE BIBLICAL WAY, and you can't and won't be wrong!

Shalom,
Simpleman

Take a close up look said...

I have fill in the proposed cheque signatories with actual names. Here's a great posibility of what can happen. Take a close look and then decide if there really is a check and balance here.

3. Proposed amendment to Church Constitution BY-LAWS ARTICLE IV: FINANCIAL PROVISIONS, Item 2

Proposed Changes

i) Below RM 5,000.00 – Financial Controller (NONE YET) and any other person from Group 3.(Jim G, Pam G, Peter O or Steven K)

ii) RM 50,000.00 or less – any two persons from Group 2 (PG1 or PG2 or PO) and 3 (Jim G, Pam G, Chris L, PO or SK) provided always that both of them cannot be from the same Group. (Should clarify cannot be the same family)

iii) Above RM 50,000.00 – any two persons from Group 1 (PG1 or PG2 or PO) and 2 (any deacon) provided always that both of them cannot be from the same Group.

Group 1
a) Senior Pastor (Prince Guneratnam)
b) A nominee of the Senior Pastor approved by the Board of Deacons (Petrina Guneratnam or Peter Ong)

Group 2
a) Secretary of the Board of Deacons (Bernadette Foo)
b) Treasurer (Edward Rajasingam)
c) One member of the Board of Deacons as may be approved by the Board of Deacons (Patrick Wong, Philip Tan, Han JK or Stephen Liu)

Group 3
a) Financial Controller (none yet)
b) Executive Administrator (Jim Guneratnam)
c) A nominee approved by the Board of Deacons (most likely Pam Guneratnam or Chris Lee or Peter Ong or Steven Kum)

The names are of people who are really there in the church office, not names I cooked up.

Control our emotion and lower the temperature said...

Let's control our emotion and lower the temperature and show respect and love for fellow Calvarites. Many of you have a great deal to contribute.

Let's us examine carefully the root cause of the problem. Two EGMs might not be enough to deal with the key issues as there are indeed many which had been swept under the rugs over many years.

Can we first agree unanimously to consider these important areas:-

(a) do not place temptation in the hands of Pastoral staff and recognise that its focus has to be mainly in the teaching promotion and growth of the Church membership.

(b) therefore, power must not be concentrated in the hands of a Senior Pastor or a single person whosoever that person may be because it has led to and will continue to lead many churches to where CC is today. Hence, remove BOD Chairmanship and remove cheques-signing authority plus the curtailment of a variety of authorisation powers in church adminstration

(c)a senior pastor role as chairman of the Human Resources committee.

(d)the role as chairman of the church disciplinary committee

(e)to review a senior pastor's position where there is obvious conflict of interests issues.

Finally, in the proposed amendments to the financial governance segment of the constitution (we know these proposed amendments are by no means complete) the delegation of cheque signing or appointment of nominees for cheque-signing will simply defeat the moral principle on accountability. One cannot be appointed to a position and then out-source responsibility and accountability for one's action. A good internal procedure and control manual for good governance is sorely needed to be installed and out in place. Assuming there is an existing handbook/manual it has to be reviewed and appropriately upgraded.

Our prayers are with all as we now move ahead with these small but vital steps forward at the coming EGM

SM said...

No wonder they want to push this resolution through.

PG and Jim G(currently the Executive Administrator) can jointly sign cheques up to RM50,000, if members vote for this resolution.

What are the FGTF members thinking? or maybe they were just taking instructions. When will the BOD stop tempting the G family with this kind of arrangment. When you know the weakness of somebody, you shouldn't put temptation in front of them.

All members must insist on changing this resolution. Otherwise, this is a no no no!

Moving Forward??? said...

Hello SM. Agree with you. This new arrangement actually give the Guneratnams more cheque signing opportunity. In fact SP can have even more power now to assign all his family of Guneratnams to sign cheques. Aiyo and I thought this is suppose to be a MOVING FORWARD PLAN.

long time member said...

Dear All

We have to stop this cheque signing thing!!!! After wards transfer money without telling the church members again.

whisper a PRAYER said...

Dear Heavenly Father,

Thank You for Your daily provision.

You have been gracious to me and my family. I am truly grateful.

Lord, I pray for those today who may have been caught up in the deception of trying to obtain wealth in the wrong way.

Deliver them and guide them in Your ways.

Teach us all to use our money wisely and to give when You speak to us to give, and to help when there is a need.

Lord, deliver Your children from greed and lust.

Take anything out of my heart that would keep me from following You completely.

DELIVER US FROM EVIL.

I ask in the name of Jesus.

Amen

PRESS ON said...

TIP OF THE ICE-BERG

Frankly,FGFT is just PIECE- MEAL stuff! but, I gather that because TTG is up against a recalcitrant BOD & leadership, many would like to accept this as "something is better than nothing"! How sad, indeed.

Frankly, the Church Constitution needs a complete review--that is thorough, and by competent independent committee, with its process, terms of reference and a definite timeline for completion.

Frankly, the present BOD show no resolve to tackle and address the root problem and all the issues raised, sincerely. They are just trying to 'patch' things which have completely broken down.

Frankly, the BOD fails to recognise the seriousness of the CRISIS in calvary church, and acted irresponsibly keep calling for EGMs! and whatever happen to the AGM scheduled for 03 Apr 09?

Frankly, as stated in FGFT Ref 'Qualifications & Responsibilities of Deacons and Trustees': "The deacon must be of good reputation, "of honest report"..The confidence and trust of the CONGREGATION and community are ESSENTIAL."
Will the BOD answer this honestly? ( They were in fact asked to Step down/resign en-block at last AGM)

Frankly, the Truth Commission has to be set -up to investigate full ALL the allegations and ALL the issues raised by the Congregation, concerned members, in particular Dr.Lum's 23 issues covered in CT.

Frankly, by now it's so evident for all to see that BOD continue to beat around the bush! STOP them, and make them ACCOUNTABLE.

Moving Forward??? said...

NO NO NO to the financial resolution on the signatories part.

There are two big and glaring flaws.

First the nominee by SP or by BOd can be a gardener or an Indonesian construction worker, not that we look down on them. But my point is, it can be anyone on this earth even though some may think it will be someone in the church.

Secondly, how can they be no limit to the signing of the cheque. The cheque can be RM50,001.00 or RM22,000,000.00!!!

So there should be a limit and also the nominee should be any of the BOD member and not anyone else.

The proposed resolution is indeed a moving forward plan but only for certain people and not for the whole church.

Aiyo, I thought this resolution was tabled a few years ago but was shot down by the church. It has now resurfaced but in a different form

Dictatorship said...

There you go again....telling people what to do.....

Josh said...

Thanks Viola... I know where you are coming from. The fact that some people are hurt is evident and I think that as a church, we should move compassionately towards healing those wounds. That is why I am mindful to refrain from personal attacks - but I do not subscribe to some of the conclusions and would like to voice why if only to offer an alternate point of view.

We are a large church and like it or not, our leaders are human too. If in the course of leadership hurt has resulted, we should look towards grace and reconciliation. But just as there are those among us who are hurting, I believe our pastors and deacons are no less human. To portray them in lesser light is to discount their weaknesses when we ourselves are not perfect.

More than 10 years ago, my church back home faced a similar situation where some felt hurt by leadership. We agonized and prayed over it, met repeatedly and endured some of the darkest times in our church history. But the determination of our church council was to reach out in love and grace. Our pastor retired some time later, but he left behind a blessed legacy which makes me proud to still call him Pastor till today.

Now about the resolution - I think some of the questions are valid, if framed properly. If indeed there is a probable situation where a father and son are the sole signatories to a huge sum of monies and therefore reflect a conflict of interest, please, feel free to raise it up during the EGM. Let the leadership see that we are truly concerned about this.

But again, if the reason is to curtail leadership for unsubstantiated claims, then the motion to revise lacks good grace and purpose in my mind.

Call to Repentance said...

A Call to Repentance

Amos 5:4-15

4. For thus says the LORD to the house of Israel:

"Seek Me and live;
5. But do not seek Bethel,
Nor enter Gilgal,
Nor pass over to Beersheba;
For Gilgal shall surely go into captivity,
And Bethel shall come to nothing.

6. "Seek the LORD and live,
Lest He break out like fire in the house of Joseph.
And devour it,
With no one to quench it in Bethel-

7. You who turn justice into woodworm,
And lay righteousness to rest in the earth!"

8...He turns the shadow of death into morning,
And makes the day dark as night;
He calls for the waters of the sea
And pours them out on the face of the earth;

The LORD is His Name.

9. He rains ruin upon the strong,
So that fury comes upon the fortress.

10. They hate the one who rebukes in the gate,
And they abhor the one who speaks uprightly.

11. Therefore, because you tread down the poor
And take grain taxes from him,
Though you have built houses of hewn stone,
Yet you shall not dwell in them;
You have planted pleasant vineyards,
But you shall not drink wine from them.

12. For I know your manifold transgressions
And your mighty sins:
Afflicting the just and taking bribes;
Diverting the poor from justice at the gate....

14. Seek good and not evil,
That you may live;
So the LORD God of hosts will be with you,
As you have spoken.

15. Hate evil, love good;
Establish justice in the gate,
It may be that the LORD God of hosts
Will be gracious to the remnant of Joseph."

Dear Heavenly Father,

Have mercy upon your people. Come and visit Your people and bring justice and righteousness to Your suffering lambs... We seek You and we want to live in liberty not under the heavy yoke of oppression and deception.

May You be gracious to Your people.
Surely You are a God of Truth, Justice and Righteousness.

In Jesus Name we pray.... AMEN

Sentinel said...

Yesterday's newspaper highlighted some news that gave me hope. SELCAT (Selangor State Assembly's Select Committee on Competency, Accountability and Transparency) have unearthed the excesses of the Menteri Besar & his family & his cronies.

May the Calvary Church EGM also unearth the excesses of the Menteri Besar (Senior or Chief Minister) of Calvary Church & his family, & start the ball rolling for the setting up of a truly independent, unbiased, uncorrupted committee for transparency and accountability for good church governance & stewardship.

The Church is supposed to be the light shining in the darkness and yet, this light has not been shining! Tsk! Tsk! Shame, shame! What dishonour has the church leadership brought to the Name of our Lord! The excesses of the leadership has made us a laughing stock in the eyes of the world!

It's high time Calvary Church learn from the world (what a shame!) how transparency & accountability is to be really conducted.

Hunger Pang said...

Hunger pang cry for Truth
Hunger pang cry for Transparency
Hunger pang cry for Justice
Hunger pang cry for Righteousness

Hunger pang cry for Deliverance
Hunger pang cry for Healing
Hunger pang cry for Restoration
Hunger pang cry for Accountability

Hunger pang cry for Cleansing
Hunger pang cry for Purification
Hunger pang cry for Sanctification
Hunger pang cry for Forgiveness

Hunger pang cry for Humility
Hunger pang cry for Strength
Hunger pang cry for Meekness
Hunger pang cry for Honesty

Every hunger pang cries out to Abba, Father.

True Riches said...

Proverbs 13:7

One man considers himself rich, yet has nothing (to keep permanently);
another man considers himself poor, yet has great (and indestructible) riches.

Verse 7 distinguishes between true riches and worldly wealth.

The two are worlds apart.

True riches are found in a relationship with Christ, while the wealth of this world is simply temporary ownership of money and things.

A man may accumulate great wealth in this life.

However, when he dies, he will not be able to take one cent of it with him.

On the other hand, a man who has Christ, though he may be considered poor in this life; will find that when he dies, a reward is waiting for him in heaven that no man can take from him.

His riches are not just stored up for later either, as they are available every day as he walks with God.

The riches of God cannot be bought with money.

No man can buy peace of mind,
joy in one's heart,
true love from another or
faith in the face of trying circumstances.

These things only come from God and are a part of our inheritance as children of God.

These are what the Bible calls TRUE riches.

A Timely Word from the Lord said...

Last Sunday, Sis. Margaret Stewart preached a most appropriate & timely sermon for the current season of confidence crisis in CC. Amongst the many scriptures quoted by her was this gem from Proverbs 29:1

"A man who remains stiffnecked (i.e. stubborn) after many rebukes will suddenly be destroyed - without remedy".

Obviously God intended this verse for someone in CC; I am just wondering who that person is & I pray that he has listened & listened well or else ............

Puzzled said...

Pardon me, True Riches!

Shouldn't PG & PG2 know what True Riches are? After all, they have been preaching it for almost 40 years!!!

How come they have abandoned true riches for worldly riches, wealth, fame, power, status, titles, affluence, luxurious living (designer clothes, handbags, shoes, ties, etc.), worldly ease & pleasure?

How come they preach one thing & practise another?
Have they lost their fear of God?

Talk Only said...

Hi Puzzled,

I think that's what is meant by they DON'T "Walk the Talk".

Some call it "Read My Lips, Don't Watch My Actions".

the truth is out there said...

To Puzzled and Talk Only,

Let me add a remark made by one of my teachers almost 45 years ago when I was in lower secondary school. He said "Do what I tell you and not what I do."

These words has return to haunt me when I think of the life-style of the Church's 'supreme' leader and what they tell you to do. Need I elaborate? No need lah!

SML said...

“I love you congregation” declared Sp.. “you give so generously!”

Perhaps, many will now know the real reason, and able to clearly see how the Missions FUND has been used, and how we the members had been had for a large part of its existence, in the disposal of the monies, albeit there were token church planting and very selective Missions projects to give it the gloss.

Consider this:
Missions Fund have been used as a leverage :
1. to make himself “famous” ( as testified by many Visting Speakers “Your pastor is famous around the world) comes from FAITH Promise.
( why not CC is a Big sponsor and donor, and he gets the Credit)

2. to get his Datukship ( because of Calvary land Project, but now a a white elephant, since his objective is realised)

3. to get a Board seat /chairmanship on
International Christian Bodies.

4. to realize his own ambition to build the most
expensive church building (actually, a
convention centre) at all cost, even putting the
Church in debt, to leave behind his legacy.

5. to bless who ever he chooses so that in return
he gets ‘bless’ himself

6. to launch his personal Ministry --Calvary
International Ministries (passed-off
as CC’s extended ministry)

7. ..and God knows what else

Missions Funds come from Faith Promise. With its few Millions$ pledged twice a year, it’s a ‘Cash Cow”. No wonder it’s given so much emphasis, and high powered
Speakers are invited for these ‘special’ occasions.

Look closer at the Missions Budget one will realize it can be manipulated.
Ever wonder why *EXCESS in the Missions Funds should go to church Building Fund? There are endless needs out in the harvest fields, even right in our own backyard, why wouldn’t these monies be used for genuine missions work? And isn’t there already an on-going CCC fund?

Also, classifications is not ‘what you see is what you get’. For example, who would have even guessed, the annual RM 200,00 given to CIM was ‘parked’ under “Other Organisations” and ‘”Welfare Fund” could be used to pay for Air fare to America for SP’s grand daughter & BOD’s ‘Assoc pastor's Children? Now, I can understand what BOD meant when they said with a straight face, that it’s all ‘accounted for! ( only, that
these utilization are so well ‘parked’ under those classifications that no members could never know where to find it )

And the wasteful spending such as purchase of Cordless Microphones & headphone at over RM20,000+ ( thanks to CT for the expose’ or we would have forever remained in ignorant bliss, as SP and BOD gang wished)

It’s really pitiful if those who knows God’s righteousness, still want to condone
all these acts of deception, misrepresentation, abuses that have taken place in the House of God, and defend in vain what is clearly indefensible.

My back needs scratching badly! said...

Dear SML,

PG was actually saying, "I love you, congregation, for your money! Just keep giving your hard-earned money generously so that I can continue living lavishly...! Then I'll keep loving you..."

our voice said...

Am glad that most of the resolutions were not approved by the members! PG and BOD should see that the voice of the people HAVE spoken!

Deceiving Agenda said...

Somehow I think the resolutions were not the main issue.

It was the additional agenda on the Clarifications that matters to him.

At first they said we could not add in the agenda on the Dr Lum's case because it was not posted in the notice but they could add the Clarifications one without being mentioned in the notice.

Someone was saying, those who did not come did not know that Dr Lum issue would be discussed if they add it on the agenda but neither does the church knows about the additional agenda on the Clarifications.

Rather deceiving, I think.